Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons

This a VR of what types are good to have, nothing about how good are attacks of those types neither about a ranking of typing depending of the ranking of their mons (Zygod is pretty good but still, I don’t think dragon is a good typing on itself)
Yourself said:
why is grass this high, kartana? if you put grass in a-rank because of kartana then i find this to be pretty weird and inconsistent with the rest of your rankings because you ranked posion and dragon so low despite there being top tier mons with the types (mgar and zygod). defensively grass offers pretty much nothing other then being an alr pair with steel (ferrothorn). offensively you'd only consider it on huge power sets, and without the stab you'd usually want to use other types that hit similar targets such as bug and electri
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I think Grass is cool because of Spore Immune and useful STAB but yeah, I ranked it to high B Tier

Yourself said:
dragon and rock being as low as they are feels really weird. yeah ik dragon only hits zygod which already loses to ice so it becomes pointless as coverage on huge power and special attackers and defensively it offers absolutely nothing, but clangsoul exists so i just don't think it can go this low. also if grass is ranked as high as it is because kartana exists and has the type then dragon should be higher because zygod exists and has the type. my issue with putting rocks this low is stealth rock but if u ignore then then yeah this ranking is fine
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For dragon : Outside of soulblaze it kinda does nothing, the only good thing with it is VCreate resist usefull on zygod. Except OHKOing Zyg with SoulBlaze you don’t need Dragon as offensive type. Soulblaze is cool but usable outside of dragon type so being dragon type isn’t really helpful
For Rock : no matter what type you are Stealth Rocks will fo the same same both dragon and rocks will keep their places. You can consider dragon as high D+ ig.
Yourself said:
another case of if grass is this high because kartana exists and has the type, then posion should be higher up because mgar exists and has the type. ignoring that tho i think posion this high up is pretty wild like defensively it can only accomplish anything with the dark type, and muk is not in the best spot at the minute anyways. offensively you only hit 1 mon super effectively and the only time you would need to consider using a posion move is on mgeist users because photon and sunsteel beat maud.
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I think poison's place is good, it offers a lot to MGar and AMuk (and other dark poison) but outside of both it doesn't do much, poison doesn’t make MDrill a top tier mon, it only gives it TSpikes absorb. I already explain what I thought about poison and won’t change my mind.
Yourself said:
bug type is not this low, this is probably one of the most outrageous rankings here. defensively i'll admit it doesn't much tho with steel it's atleast usable (scizor). offensively is where the bug type really shines tho being solid coverage on huge power guys, special photon guys, and geist guys. great coverage on huge power to hit mbro and darks in the same slot, and pairs really well with fire. great coverage on special photon because it hits darks and psychics, geist runs it to hit the same mons however it is less off a requirement as you can run fighting and still hit the same offensive mons + already murder pure psychics. also worth noting bug gets first impression too. putting it this low was a crime.
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Yeah I should have explain it earlier, just check what I said at the beginning of the post. Bug coverage is great but being a bug doesn't help much
Yourself said:
dark is too high. i understand it is immune to photon and resists geist which is very cool, however by itself it is weak to common coverage from both geist and photon. the types you do pair with dark to cover up it's weakness to common coverage bring other issues, like dark ground's fissure weakness (muk) or dark flying's sheer cold and rocks weakness (yveltal).
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Yup, I see what you mean but a lot of mons with a single type would be grateful to get a second dark type. It has a lot of annoying weaknesses but Prankster immunity is REALLY cool and getting Pursuit STAB to kill Lunala and Bliss on MG is awesome too. I don't see it being a A Tier because of that
 
Slothlotliscool said:
USUM HO VIABILITY RANKINGS
In progress…

S+ RANK
View attachment 755896Kartana
S RANK
View attachment 755897Mega mewtwo X
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... As a mmx fanboy this is for sure right! (NOT)

Even though I love this fucker I will not let someone under rank something which is to overwhelming good. I mean Kart is a good mon don't get me wrong, but mmx is just better in most situations and overall. mmx is better at wall breaking in general which is arguably the most important thing on HO, mmx has most versatility with its move sets like when mmx can dip into its special side for some more favorable matchups into physical walls, and mmx can also be used as an arguably better ng then kart which at this point kart Is mostly used for. If anyone want to prove to me Kart is a better ng please prove me wrong. I'm tryna be enlightened by my shitty takes.
 
ItzEmanBoss said:
If anyone want to prove to me Kart is a better ng please prove me wrong
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Imo Kart is a better ng because it has no immunities on his STAB and the other is cool with Fissure+SS (making like 3-4 mons capable of walling). On the other hand MMX NG is just a worse version of MMY, you'll almost never run the 50%acc fighting move which is the only reason (imo) you'd take MMX over MMY. MMX ng is only viable in MMX spam
 
ItzEmanBoss said:
... As a mmx fanboy this is for sure right! (NOT)

Even though I love this fucker I will not let someone under rank something which is to overwhelming good. I mean Kart is a good mon don't get me wrong, but mmx is just better in most situations and overall. mmx is better at wall breaking in general which is arguably the most important thing on HO, mmx has most versatility with its move sets like when mmx can dip into its special side for some more favorable matchups into physical walls, and mmx can also be used as an arguably better ng then kart which at this point kart Is mostly used for. If anyone want to prove to me Kart is a better ng please prove me wrong. I'm tryna be enlightened by my shitty takes.
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Guysmash said:
MMX is much more consistent and versatile than Kart, you won’t run Imp on HO so imo Bliss is better than chansey as Innards because easier to use as improof

You should change S and S+ imo
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Ok I get it, mmx does like 50 bajillion damage with hp photon geyser/ light that burns the sky (also I am by far not the most qualified to talk about this kind of stuff but I am anyways) but imo sss is better than photon because you don’t get walled by psychic resists or fur coat steel types or just bulky fur coat mons in general. Also, the most common moveset (spore, sss, shell smash and ice shard/ ice punch) can easily substitute a move like ice shard or spore (mostly spore so you don’t get walled by zyg) for a move like wood hammer of power whip and that means that counters like mgyara, mbro and mswampert can’t come in safely without scouting out if this kart has a grass move or not. Finally, kartana’s 131 base defence makes it survive even + 2 huge power attacks even factoring rocks damage (only survives + 1 or non stab if 3 spikes are up) meaning unlike mmx it doesn’t just die to boost sweepers with hazards up.
 
Slothlotliscool said:
Ok I get it, mmx does like 50 bajillion damage with hp photon geyser/ light that burns the sky (also I am by far not the most qualified to talk about this kind of stuff but I am anyways) but imo sss is better than photon because you don’t get walled by psychic resists or fur coat steel types or just bulky fur coat mons in general. Also, the most common moveset (spore, sss, shell smash and ice shard/ ice punch) can easily substitute a move like ice shard or spore (mostly spore so you don’t get walled by zyg) for a move like wood hammer of power whip and that means that counters like mgyara, mbro and mswampert can’t come in safely without scouting out if this kart has a grass move or not. Finally, kartana’s 131 base defence makes it survive even + 2 huge power attacks even factoring rocks damage (only survives + 1 or non stab if 3 spikes are up) meaning unlike mmx it doesn’t just die to boost sweepers with hazards up.
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Yes for pure damage, Kart is probably better because nothing is immune to SSS but why I think MMX is above it’s only for it’s versatile aspect, 9 Atk difference is not a lot. And second why would you run spore not to get wall by zyg when you have ice shard.?
 
Guysmash said:
Imo Kart is a better ng because it has no immunities on his STAB and the other is cool with Fissure+SS (making like 3-4 mons capable of walling). On the other hand MMX NG is just a worse version of MMY, you'll almost never run the 50%acc fighting move which is the only reason (imo) you'd take MMX over MMY. MMX ng is only viable in MMX spam
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In my opinion Kartana is better offensively, and while - don't get me wrong - both mons are almost unwallable, Kartana is harder to check personally. While MMX can run coverage, Kartana has more raw power, and Sunsteel completely busts open non 4x resist steels. MMX can run coverage for anything but you kind of struggle with 4mss? Imo you can like for example run Searing Shot for steels but you get walled by Slowbro, and if you run Moongeist for that, you get walled by zygod, and so on and so forth. while i do credit some mmx sets that hit practically almost everything, many sets lack that. what also makes kartana nice is it can run different abilities as well, surprise no guard that is borderline unwallable according to yourself, mg for innards, etc. yes mmx can do that too, but it kinda lacks power without huge power

ice shard +2 hp kart rips zyg but mmx ice shard is fake
 
aidan amoongus said:
MMX can run coverage for anything but you kind of struggle with 4mss? Imo you can like for example run Searing Shot for steels but you get walled by Slowbro, and if you run Moongeist for that, you get walled by zygod, and so on and so forth.
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i mostly disagree with what ur saying here.

running searing shot does not just mean you get walled by slowbro, and pairing geist with searing shot is counter intuitive because searing shot already beats doublade so you'd rather run a move that beats mbro and also beats something you're missing such as bug which covers both mbro and darks like mgyara. geist typically wants to be paired with fighting because you already beat doublade with geist so fighting hits remaining steels and darks in 1 slot. running geist also doesn't just mean you lose to zygod, because typically you will replace one of ur moldy moves (usually sunsteel but photonless sets are possible) with ice. as for other moves i haven't mentioned, both grass and electric are essentially just bug replacements and aren't necesarry on photon sets because photon already hits the extra things they hit (mpert and ho-oh). dark (knock off usually for the removal which also allows you to beat fc doublade, all tho band can opt for darkest lariat) functions essentially the same as special ghost. i haven't brought up tarrows because i don't think it's good, you miss wonder guard steels and the stuff you do end up hitting walls you with fur coat or prankster reflect due to it being a physical 90bp move without stab. it does hit muk, but muk is very rarely seen these days, all tho if you really need to hit muk i suppose it is an option.

of course mmx doesn't have to run the coverage options i listed, probably because you already have enough teamates to beat a certain mon or because of improofing concerns, but if mmx wants to it can be nearly or totally unwallbe so i disagree that it has 4mss. without a power boosting item, you can run photon/ice/fire/bug and you only have a few random walls like heatran, muk, and if we wanna push it darmanitan zen and sableye. with a band, you can run photon/sunsteel/close combat/darkest lariat and only be walled by ssap zygod (reflect zygod loses to photon on switch in). lorb is also unwallable technically, all tho you have recoil and to break reflect zygod you need to click close combat on switch in which is a lot harder to click then photon. psychic terrain would also have the same effect as a band as well as blocking ssap.
aidan amoongus said:
what also makes kartana nice is it can run different abilities as well, surprise no guard that is borderline unwallable according to yourself, mg for innards, etc. yes mmx can do that too, but it kinda lacks power without huge power
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minor side note 1: i never said this, i think i said ng kart is only walled by wg steels. ng kart also suffers from a lack of immediate power tho ransei probably exagerates this a little.
aidan amoongus said:
ice shard +2 hp kart rips zyg but mmx ice shard is fake
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minor side note 2: ice shard mmx isn't fake im not sure why you have said this. photon into shard kills zygod, shard can kill a stag mray, and shard can pick of guys that have used a sash.
 
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