Ladder Team (^=^)

[DeLorean]

My team that I'm using for the ladder.

The Creature (Gallade) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 64 HP/252 Atk/192 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

My CB gallade. Lead, Sweeper, and Cresselia-Counter of sorts. Shadow sneak is for those damn gengars.
---

Queen Of Moss (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/140 Def/16 SAtk/100 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Provides pivitol scouting support. Also helps against gyarados, or so bball1210 tells me ;D

Should I put roar on here? I feel like gyarados could get out of hand quite quickly, so...
---

Giant Merman (Tentacruel) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/54 Def/52 SAtk/152 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Surf
- Toxic Spikes
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Barrier

My new physical wall. With support from blissey, I plan for this to take down physical lucario, heracross, and weavile.
---

The Forgotten One (Garchomp) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 96 HP/252 Atk/152 Spd/6 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
- Stone Edge

The star of my team, and broken as fuck. I'm keeping stone edge, eathworm. That way, chomp can switch in on the stone edges gyara fires off and then OHKO with it.

Also changing the nature to -Def to power fire blast, but I'm not so sure this is a good idea, if I want it to switch in to +1 stone edge from gyarados. :\
---

Balore (Bronzong) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/152 Atk/8 Def/98 SDef
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball
- Hypnosis

Another thing I'm editing in, mainly to take care of tyranitar and mamoswine, who otherwise destroy my team
---

Legion (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Def/252 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect
- Ice Wind

Stalling blissey, helps with wish passing. I've been testing Icy Wind, and it means I can outstall most special sweepers.
---

Central Strategy

My main goal is to scout around with zapdos and bronzong, stall out with blissey and tentacruel, and perform a couple hard-and-fast sweeps with gallade and garchomp.

 

[Bologo]

Hum dee dum dum dum. Let's see here:

Problem

- 2 pokemon weak to Fire with 1 resistance

- 3 pokemon weak to Ice with 1 resistance

- 2 pokemon weak to Flying with 1 resistance

Now, that's quite a bit of shared weaknesses for one team. However, there is a very good solution to this.

Solution

- What I'd recommend doing is changing your Rest-talking Tangrowth, chucking it far away, and changing it to a Rest-talking Heatran

Reason

- Heatran will support Scizor quite well, while having a great ability to take special hits, unlike Tangrowth

- Supports Gallade's Flying weakness

- 4x resists Zapdos and Garchomp's Ice weaknesses

- Fixes every shared weakness you have while not adding any

Good luck!

 

[Bourbon]

Sadly, I have to agree with Bologo. As cool as Mojanbo is (T_T) he has to go. I really with he could stay and Garchump could go, but yeah... Heaty > Tangrowth


Also, WHY WOULDN'T you pass wish, a lot of your pokemon could benefit from it. Also, I see that you have no way of beating Infernape save for revenge killing. Same for Lucario (specs or physical) without Zapdos, it will likely sweep you, and with SR up, Zapdos will be taking a risk by switching in repeatedly.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Hum dee dum dum dum. Let's see here:

Problem

- 2 pokemon weak to Fire with 1 resistance

- 3 pokemon weak to Ice with 1 resistance

- 2 pokemon weak to Flying with 1 resistance

Now, that's quite a bit of shared weaknesses for one team. However, there is a very good solution to this.

Solution

- What I'd recommend doing is changing your Rest-talking Tangrowth, chucking it far away, and changing it to a Rest-talking Heatran

Reason

- Heatran will support Scizor quite well, while having a great ability to take special hits, unlike Tangrowth

- Supports Gallade's Flying weakness

- 4x resists Zapdos and Garchomp's Ice weaknesses

- Fixes every shared weakness you have while not adding any

Good luck!

And then Gyarados sweeps his team. Either way tangrowth is a weak spot - Id change it to some sort of bulky water than can deal with gyarados, doesn't mind restalking so it can status absorb (hello milotic), and still covers his fire and ice issues which are more important than addressing a flying weakness when the only 'threat' for that is staraptor and staraptor isn't seen that much.

EDIT: You can also switch garchomps nature to -Def or -Special Defense to support fire blast/surf better? Just an idea

 

[DeLorean]

- 2 pokemon weak to Fire with 1 resistance

- 3 pokemon weak to Ice with 1 resistance

- 2 pokemon weak to Flying with 1 resistance

It used to be a restalk hariyama, I changed it right before I posted and didn't consider these weaks. Fixed.

And then Gyarados sweeps his team. Either way tangrowth is a weak spot - Id change it to some sort of bulky water than can deal with gyarados, doesn't mind restalking so it can status absorb (hello milotic), and still covers his fire and ice issues which are more important than addressing a flying weakness when the only 'threat' for that is staraptor and staraptor isn't seen that much.

Although I do lack a strong physical wall, zapdos makes a fine switch in. I might even give zappy roar to take care of +6 ones. :\

 

[Bourbon]

And then Gyarados sweeps his team. Either way tangrowth is a weak spot - Id change it to some sort of bulky water than can deal with gyarados, doesn't mind restalking so it can status absorb (hello milotic), and still covers his fire and ice issues which are more important than addressing a flying weakness when the only 'threat' for that is staraptor and staraptor isn't seen that much.

EDIT: You can also switch garchomps nature to -Def or -Special Defense to support fire blast/surf better? Just an idea

AHEM: Togekiss anyone? Most dangerous flying threat in the game!?

 

[Purple Jesus]

AHEM: Togekiss anyone? Most dangerous flying threat in the game!?

Ok, add heatran and get 6-0'd by gyarados. Sorry I looked over a threat like togekiss that he already walls with blissey

 

[ToF]

Ok, add heatran and get 6-0'd by gyarados. Sorry I looked over a threat like togekiss that he already walls with blissey

How is he 6-0'd by Gyarados if he has Zapdos? If he fixes up the spread, a DDGyara Stone Edge isn't a KO, and the resulting Thunderbolt is. This is situational, yes, but he does have the components to stop the threat.

 

[chaos 9]

why does your tangrowth know earth power and lava plume?

 

[stormtrooper]

i think he changed it to heatran

 

[the pugilist]

The Creature (Gallade) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 64 HP/252 Atk/192 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch

CB gallade, a fairly self-explanitory lead. Shadow sneak is for gengar, and CC is for pretty much everybody else. CC also gets those pesky abomasnow switch-ins. ^_^

Good, except why the hell would Aboma switch into Gallade?
---

Queen Of Moss (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/140 Def/16 SAtk/100 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Has no real use outside of downing the occasional dragon, but it has invaluable scouting power. Great for finishing what blissey starts.

Good
---

Balore (Tangrowth) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP/136 SpA/128 Spe
Modest nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power

Restalk tangrowth, really the weakest link on my team. Nice for the initial status absorb from milotic, blissey, and gengar, but I almost always need to switch :(

I'd replace this Heatran with a HP Elec REstalk Milotic as it can take on Gyrados and helps with the weaknesses Boogloo pointed out.
---

The Forgotten One (Garchomp) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 96 HP/252 Atk/152 Spd/6 SAtk
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
- Surf

My star, and broken as fuck. I need a new move over surf, however. Dragon claw? Draco Meteor?

Good
---

Beezelbub (Scizor) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP/44 Atk/196 Def/16 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- X-Scissor
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance

My priority abuser/wall breaker/stall breaker. Somewhat ghost weak, and I feel like I need something better to take that fire weak; metal sound heatran rips through blissey like a troll rips through all your valid points.

I would try and Fit BB on there but I honestly don't know what to take out
---

Legion (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP/252 Def/252 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Wish
- Toxic
- Protect
- Ice Beam

Stall bliss. I really want to use Icy Wind, but it's not programmed onto shoddy yet.

I don't actually ever wishpass, unless it's unintentional; wish + protect is to prolong toxic damage.

I'd consider using the Obi Bliss in place of this. Flamethrower helps take out steels that would otherwise set up on this. Consider it over Ice Beam.
---
Central Strategy

My main goal is to scout around with zapdos and scizor, stall out with blissey and tangrowth, and perform a couple hard-and-fast sweeps with gallade and garchomp.

 

[blasphemy1]

I believe many teams that aren't setting up Stealth Rock fear Yanmega terribly, and many don't know this, but Ninjask wrecks many teams late game.

Flying may not be common, but it is sure something to look out for which is what you need to do when making a team. I think the change was for the best.

 

[Bologo]

And then Gyarados sweeps his team. Either way tangrowth is a weak spot - Id change it to some sort of bulky water than can deal with gyarados, doesn't mind restalking so it can status absorb (hello milotic), and still covers his fire and ice issues which are more important than addressing a flying weakness when the only 'threat' for that is staraptor and staraptor isn't seen that much.

Umm what? What you just said was kind of y'know, completely wrong. There are a lot of pokemon who use Flying moves, especially with Heracross and Breloom everywhere. There's Togekiss, Skarmory, Staraptor (like you mentioned), Moltres (usage going up), Yanmega, Zapdos, Crobat, etc etc.

Zapdos deals with Gyarados perfectly fine. It's faster and can OHKO with Thunderbolt and like others have mentioned, it's bulky enough to take Stone Edge and just OHKO back. Most of the Gyarados nowadays don't even carry Stone Edge, and will have to rely on the weaker Ice Fang, which can most likely hardly even 3HKO, if anything.

Heatran is a perfectly fine choice.

 

[DeLorean]

How is he 6-0'd by Gyarados if he has Zapdos? If he fixes up the spread, a DDGyara Stone Edge isn't a KO, and the resulting Thunderbolt is. This is situational, yes, but he does have the components to stop the threat.

Yes, but how would I fix it? Anyway, I can bait a switch fine with zapdos. Gyarados is a fairly good switch in on scizor, especially when I can get him to EQ or taunt on the switch.

And lets not be forgetting that gallade has stone edge for gyarados. The problem is the amount of setup. I have to switch in something and then switch back out.

I think I might put back restalk hariyama; Helps cover up my weavile weak too.

I believe many teams that aren't setting up Stealth Rock fear Yanmega terribly, and many don't know this, but Ninjask wrecks many teams late game.

The thing about yanmega is; it gets destroyed by blissey. Stealth rock weak and blissey weaks suck, and my blissey will soon, how you say, "pwn" yanmega.

Hurry up and give blissey fucking icy wind already, shoddy!

Umm what? What you just said was kind of y'know, completely wrong. There are a lot of pokemon who use Flying moves, especially with Heracross and Breloom everywhere. There's Togekiss, Skarmory, Staraptor (like you mentioned), Moltres (usage going up), Yanmega, Zapdos, Crobat, etc etc.

It's good to see moltres' usage going up! ;)

EDIT: Puggy, the only steels out there that I see that blissey can't handle are heatran and lucario, which can be dealt with by gallade and garchomp.

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[IggyBot]

I'm seeing an Infernape weakness here. Neither Zapdos, Gallade nor Scizor can switch into Fire Blast, Heatran and Blissey get taken out by Close Combat, Garchomp can't switch into a fearful HP Ice.

Tentacruel could actually work over Heatran if you want, considering it doesn't add to any of your previous weakness, and retains Heatrans Ice resistance (though not 4x), can take special hits well, and support the rest of your team with moves like Toxic Spikes, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, ect. Also works very well with Blissey passing Wish.

 

[the pugilist]

EDIT: Puggy, the only steels out there that I see that blissey can't handle are heatran and lucario, which can be dealt with by gallade and garchomp.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Without Flamethrower, even Stuff like Probopass can get off a free setup. Why? Because you have no way of threatening steels. Steels are immune to Toxic and Ice Beam will only deal paltry damage. Agligross will get a free agility off (Agligross can defeat both Garchomp and Gallade BTW), Zone gets a free a turn to sub, Forrestress gets a free turn to lay down entry hazards, Bronzong can either use SR, Hypnosis the incoming switch or CM, ect. Neither Garchomp or Gallade can really switch in safely to Lucario.

 

[DeLorean]

Tentacruel could actually work over Heatran if you want, considering it doesn't add to any of your previous weakness, and retains Heatrans Ice resistance (though not 4x), can take special hits well, and support the rest of your team with moves like Toxic Spikes, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, ect. Also works very well with Blissey passing Wish.

A fine point indeed. I shall begin testing.

And puggy, gallade and garchomp can beat all those things, provided 'gross doesn't get 2 agilities

 

[Earthworm]

You can try Toxic or Stone Edge over the last move on Garchomp to hit Gyarados switchins (Toxic can poison certain Bulky walls too but won't remove Gyarados quickly).

I do think Tentacruel would be a good idea as you can pass wishes to it and Zapdos to allow the defensive portion of your team to survive longer. Zapdos, Tentacruel and Blissey cover each other reasonably well, except against Mamoswine. Mamoswine 1/2HKOs your entire team.

If you don't want Tentacruel and want something that might help slightly against Mamoswine AND counter Gyarados, get a bulky rapid spinning Starmie (customise its EVs to help you survive Mamoswine's EQs a bit better I guess). This also gets you double Natural Cure which is pretty cool.

 

[Lee]

Just pointing out that your Gallade set is illegal. Ice Punch is Emerald tutor, Shadow Sneak is DP Egg move. My only advice would be to keep Garchomp alive as he is the only thing that stops things like Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence and opposing Garchomp from ripping through this team in the blink of an eye. As you only have 1 wall, you're very reliant on revenge killing or smart prediction and when you lose the ability to do that, it's pretty much gg if any of the above threats use their stat-upping move.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Umm what? What you just said was kind of y'know, completely wrong. There are a lot of pokemon who use Flying moves, especially with Heracross and Breloom everywhere. There's Togekiss, Skarmory, Staraptor (like you mentioned), Moltres (usage going up), Yanmega, Zapdos, Crobat, etc etc.

Zapdos deals with Gyarados perfectly fine. It's faster and can OHKO with Thunderbolt and like others have mentioned, it's bulky enough to take Stone Edge and just OHKO back. Most of the Gyarados nowadays don't even carry Stone Edge, and will have to rely on the weaker Ice Fang, which can most likely hardly even 3HKO, if anything.

Heatran is a perfectly fine choice.

No, you're the one that definitely has it wrong on so many different levels. Out of those flying pokemon you've listed Togekiss, Skarmory, Yanmega, Zapdos and to an extent Crobat are worth worrying about. The first 3 and Crobat are utterly walled by Zapdos while opposing Zapdos are walled by Blissey which also happens to beat Togekiss and Yanmega (also why the hell did you list Zapdos as a pokemon who uses flying moves? unless there are some hp flying zapdos running around that i'm unaware of...). So I don't really think he needs to cover his "flying weakness"

On the other hand, Gyara can absolutely run through his team. Zapdos isn't a reliable counter since (as far as I've noticed) a good portion of Gyarados actually do carry stone edge and if Zapdos has taken prior damage or has to come in on stealth rock it's done for. Therefore a reliable Gyarados counter is definitely in order for that spot. Since he has a bit of a Mixape weak he's best packing a bulky water that can take hits from both sides and can take Gyara down with HP Electric. Therefore the aforementioned Milotic or maybe Suicune could fill that role.

 

[Bologo]

No, you're the one that definitely has it wrong on so many different levels. Out of those flying pokemon you've listed Togekiss, Skarmory, Yanmega, Zapdos and to an extent Crobat are worth worrying about. The first 3 and Crobat are utterly walled by Zapdos while opposing Zapdos are walled by Blissey which also happens to beat Togekiss and Yanmega (also why the hell did you list Zapdos as a pokemon who uses flying moves? unless there are some hp flying zapdos running around that i'm unaware of...). So I don't really think he needs to cover his "flying weakness"

Uhh, so you're assuming that Zapdos is always alive to take those threats? Wtf does Zapdos do if it's a TintedSpecsMega that he's fighting? What does Zapdos do if it gets paraflinched to death? I don't see how I'm wrong there at all, as opposed to so many different levels.

People still use Drill Peck on Zapdos on occasion just for your information.

Why should he not cover his Flying weakness? Aren't you supposed to remove as many weaknesses as possible when making a team? Sorry, but saying that you don't need to cover up a weakness is awful advice IMO, because it's always going to come back to bite the team in the ass later on. I'm just trying to optimize the amount of wins the team can have.

PS. How the hell is Staraptor a Flying pokemon that's not to worry about? It can easily take 3 members of this right now!

On the other hand, Gyara can absolutely run through his team. Zapdos isn't a reliable counter since (as far as I've noticed) a good portion of Gyarados actually do carry stone edge and if Zapdos has taken prior damage or has to come in on stealth rock it's done for. Therefore a reliable Gyarados counter is definitely in order for that spot. Since he has a bit of a Mixape weak he's best packing a bulky water that can take hits from both sides and can take Gyara down with HP Electric. Therefore the aforementioned Milotic or maybe Suicune could fill that role.

Well, I'm just saying from what I've seen, most Gyarados carry Waterfall/Earthquake since Stone Edge has really big potential to screw up their sweep. Also, it needs a DD to even have a guaranteed chance at a 2HKO with Stone Edge while Zapdos can just come in and Thunderbolt while it survives. That, and it's always faster than BulkyGyara even with no speed EVs, which means it can just Roost off the Stone Edges (not taking SE damage because of the faster Roost), and just OHKO. If it's got Stone Edge, Chomp can just come in and take care of Gyara no problem. Not hard to just find out the thing's moveset.

I'm not too sure I see a Mixape weak. Chomp can easily come in on anything and kill it since it's Scarfed, and Zapdos comes in on anything as well and easily kill it pretty quickly with Thunderbolt. Seems like pretty easy solutions. It's also in lots of trouble against Heatran, since I'm pretty sure that Close Combat can't kill it, and Heatran busts it with Earth Power.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Uhh, so you're assuming that Zapdos is always alive to take those threats? Wtf does Zapdos do if it's a TintedSpecsMega that he's fighting? What does Zapdos do if it gets paraflinched to death? I don't see how I'm wrong there at all, as opposed to so many different levels.

He uses Blissey...

People still use Drill Peck on Zapdos on occasion just for your information.

I've seen Drill Peck once on Zapdos during the entirety of d/p. I guess you can call that occasionally.

Why should he not cover his Flying weakness? Aren't you supposed to remove as many weaknesses as possible when making a team? Sorry, but saying that you don't need to cover up a weakness is awful advice IMO, because it's always going to come back to bite the team in the ass later on. I'm just trying to optimize the amount of wins the team can have.

PS. How the hell is Staraptor a Flying pokemon that's not to worry about? It can easily take 3 members of this right now!

You don't need to cover "weaknesses" when you have a Pokemon that blanket covers all the threats that use that specific typing. You're not optimizing his wins at all. You seem like you just go to Marriland and use that crappy team type chart instead of looking at the team as a whole. He has exceptionally solid Yanmega, Togekiss, Zapdos etc coverage, yet you told him he had to take care of his flying weak.

PS. Staraptor isn't a flying pokemon that one has to worry about because it's rarely used. And right now if he runs into a team that has Staraptor he can cover it with prediction. I'd say that's plenty of coverage for a pokemon that's not used too often.

Well, I'm just saying from what I've seen, most Gyarados carry Waterfall/Earthquake since Stone Edge has really big potential to screw up their sweep. Also, it needs a DD to even have a guaranteed chance at a 2HKO with Stone Edge while Zapdos can just come in and Thunderbolt while it survives. That, and it's always faster than BulkyGyara even with no speed EVs, which means it can just Roost off the Stone Edges (not taking SE damage because of the faster Roost), and just OHKO. If it's got Stone Edge, Chomp can just come in and take care of Gyara no problem. Not hard to just find out the thing's moveset.

But Stone Edge lets them get around opposing Gyarados and have a better shot at lucking Starmie late game if need be. About half of the Gyarados sets I run into are packing Stone Edge. Since Zapdos is his only defensive fighting resist that means it carries the burden of both countering Heracross/Lucario while at the same time countering Gyarados. That is far too much of a burden for one Pokemon to carry.

I'm not too sure I see a Mixape weak. Chomp can easily come in on anything and kill it since it's Scarfed, and Zapdos comes in on anything as well and easily kill it pretty quickly with Thunderbolt. Seems like pretty easy solutions. It's also in lots of trouble against Heatran, since I'm pretty sure that Close Combat can't kill it, and Heatran busts it with Earth Power.

Everything is going to hurt Chomp to a degree. If it has to continuously come in on Close Combats then it's not going to be able to come in again after a while. Also there's always the possibility for the predicted switch followed by a nice hp ice. Zapdos coming in on Fire Blast or HP Ice is going to hurt and relying on your heatran staying at 100% to survive a hit also doesn't work considering he has no spinner so more often than not he's going to have stealth rock on his side of the field. He definitely needs a solid mixape counter.

 

[Bologo]

You don't need to cover "weaknesses" when you have a Pokemon that blanket covers all the threats that use that specific typing. You're not optimizing his wins at all. You seem like you just go to Marriland and use that crappy team type chart instead of looking at the team as a whole. He has exceptionally solid Yanmega, Togekiss, Zapdos etc coverage, yet you told him he had to take care of his flying weak.

Togekiss beats Blissey one-on-one if it's a Nasty Plotting version though. Ice Beam can't even 2HKO Togekiss while it can Aura Sphere Blissey to death after Nasty Plot, and then kill everything else with Air Slash. I seriously wouldn't have said anything about the "flying weak" if I didn't think Togekiss wouldn't give this team a lot of trouble.

 

[IggyBot]

I'm not too sure I see a Mixape weak. Chomp can easily come in on anything and kill it since it's Scarfed, and Zapdos comes in on anything as well and easily kill it pretty quickly with Thunderbolt. Seems like pretty easy solutions. It's also in lots of trouble against Heatran, since I'm pretty sure that Close Combat can't kill it, and Heatran busts it with Earth Power.

I was going by what I've found quickly becoming the new standard Mixape, Close Combat / Grass Knot / Fire Blast / HP Ice. All of my calcs were run using my spread, which gives 297 SpAtk, and a Life Orb. Most people use 307 SpAtk on Infernape, but 1-2HKOs remain the same. Nothing can safely switch into Infernape on this team, Tentacruel fixes that problem.

 

[Bologo]

I was going by what I've found quickly becoming the new standard Mixape, Close Combat / Grass Knot / Fire Blast / HP Ice. All of my calcs were run using my spread, which gives 297 SpAtk, and a Life Orb. Most people use 307 SpAtk on Infernape, but 1-2HKOs remain the same. Nothing can safely switch into Infernape on this team, Tentacruel fixes that problem.

Ehh, alright. I suppose as long as it goes over Tangrowth/Heatran then Tentacruel is fine. Now that I think about it, it does work pretty well with the team. Haha, I'm not gonna lie, I didn't see your post. -.- I only said Heatran because it seemed logical to replace the Rest-talking Tangrowth with another Rest-talker...