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SPOILERS! Legends ZA Data Dumps - Adding Info to OP

I just found out Lopunny now gets Sword Dance and Mach Punch
Like Jesus Christ. It has perfect duel STAB with Scrappy, is immune to intimidate because of Scrappy, and now you're giving the Mega with the same same speed stat as the Paldea 4 Sword Dance AND another priority move?
Meanwhile a bunch of Poormons like Victreebel and Malamar get SFMA Megas. Show some restraint please.
 
Cuddly said:
I just found out Lopunny now gets Sword Dance and Mach Punch
Like Jesus Christ. It has perfect duel STAB with Scrappy, is immune to intimidate because of Scrappy, and now you're giving the Mega with the same same speed stat as the Paldea 4 Sword Dance AND another priority move?
Meanwhile a bunch of Poormons like Victreebel and Malamar get SFMA Megas. Show some restraint please.
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Lopunny also lost Return iirc so its not entirely left unscathed. But yeah, lopunny fans are eating in general with these movepool buffs on top of U-turn, Scrappy mechanic changes, CC, and Axel.
 
Magcargo said:
Lopunny also lost Return iirc so its not entirely left unscathed. But yeah, lopunny fans are eating in general with these movepool buffs on top of U-turn, Scrappy mechanic changes, CC, and Axel.
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With what it gained via moveset additions, Return isn't even that big of a loss. You could feasibly run a set of Fake Out, Close Combat, U-turn, and Triple Axel just fine and hit a vast majority of mons for big damage.
 
Vengeance417 said:
Not sure if it's been said here, but not only do Mega Mawile and Mega Medicham have Attack buffs to compensate for a lack of Huge/Power Power, but so do Meditite and base form Medicham.

Meditite now has 56 Attack boosted from 40, and Medicham has 84 attack boosted from 60.
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Ok, this just makes Furfrou’s case all the more puzzling. I could have excused it if it was just a Mega thing, but Meditite and base Medicham can actually have a different ability than Pure Power whereas all Furfrou have Fur Coat as their ability. Its base Def should have been boosted to 84 just like base Medicham’s Atk.
 
Vengeance417 said:
With what it gained via moveset additions, Return isn't even that big of a loss. You could feasibly run a set of Fake Out, Close Combat, U-turn, and Triple Axel just fine and hit a vast majority of mons for big damage.
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While yes, it lost Return, nothing stops it from running Double Edge for even higher BP

Yeah the recoil yadayada but Lopunny is a glass cannon anyway, if you need it to punch holes then the recoil isnt exactly a huge deal (expecially as you are mostly clicking CC anyway)

I am honestly looking forward for M-Lop on vgc. The scrappy buff alone is insane, and a simple set of Fake Out / CC / U-turn / Protect alone probably gets the job done for a proper hit and run setup
 
I just wonder how the non-stall mons getting bulk is going to pan out for them considering they never got recovery previously.

Mega Dragalge's monstrous special defense and just respectable SpA make it seem not as big a deal as assault vest dragalge... if it keeps adaptability it'll hit like a fucking truck but if it loses it then its not as powerful as specs+adaptability.

Mega Scolipede's 149 def and 140 attack is really slept on (its basically aegislash if not better post-nerf), if it does get +2 pre-mega (or keeps speed boost) then its not easy to take out at all... megahorn and gunk shot are really high BP backed by 140 on a sword's dancer.. and a speed booster. I don't think this is like mega sharpedo where you just switch in your revenge killer and mach punch it, this is 149 defense. Just sad no leech life or recovery to be some kind of toxic staller but it is equipped to do things.

Also not getting to run heavy duty boots is going to be a massive disadvantage for some stuff lol.. I truly think mega excadrill is going to pop off just cause its a mega that can spin away hazards itself and benefit from the speed boost too. Actually starmie too come to think of it... rapid spin into flip turn.
 
Worldie said:
While yes, it lost Return, nothing stops it from running Double Edge for even higher BP

Yeah the recoil yadayada but Lopunny is a glass cannon anyway, if you need it to punch holes then the recoil isnt exactly a huge deal (expecially as you are mostly clicking CC anyway)
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True, a really AoA set of CC, DE, Mach Punch, and either SD or Fake Out for double priority would go pretty stupid.
 
Vengeance417 said:
Not sure if it's been said here, but not only do Mega Mawile and Mega Medicham have Attack buffs to compensate for a lack of Huge/Power Power, but so do Meditite and base form Medicham.

Meditite now has 56 Attack boosted from 40, and Medicham has 84 attack boosted from 60.
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I guess we don't know how stat and damage calcs work exactly yet but these compensation buffs seem very reserved.
 
Esserise said:
He’s the games’ best-written antagonist, he deserves it

Yes I am 100% serious, no I will not elaborate
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While I've developed slightly more appreciation for Lysandre as time has gone on, the writing was still very much a misfire. ProZD's video making fun of him became a meme for a reason lol.
 
RoyalDispenser said:
I just wonder how the non-stall mons getting bulk is going to pan out for them considering they never got recovery previously.

Mega Dragalge's monstrous special defense and just respectable SpA make it seem not as big a deal as assault vest dragalge... if it keeps adaptability it'll hit like a fucking truck but if it loses it then its not as powerful as specs+adaptability.

Mega Scolipede's 149 def and 140 attack is really slept on (its basically aegislash if not better post-nerf), if it does get +2 pre-mega (or keeps speed boost) then its not easy to take out at all... megahorn and gunk shot are really high BP backed by 140 on a sword's dancer.. and a speed booster. I don't think this is like mega sharpedo where you just switch in your revenge killer and mach punch it, this is 149 defense. Just sad no leech life or recovery to be some kind of toxic staller but it is equipped to do things.

Also not getting to run heavy duty boots is going to be a massive disadvantage for some stuff lol.. I truly think mega excadrill is going to pop off just cause its a mega that can spin away hazards itself and benefit from the speed boost too. Actually starmie too come to think of it... rapid spin into flip turn.
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Scoli is interesting. After +2, you are at like 490 spe or something like that running jolly. That means outspeeding the entire OU rooster unless they are running CS or booster energy that boosts speed. Now, Protect isnt as popular in singles as it is in VGC, but when you run it it is the perfect counter to choice locks. The mons with CS that try to revenge kill it not only have to kill it cleanly which may not be that easy but theyll get lock in whatever they choose against protect, forcing another mindgame).

Even if you dont run protect, the +1 on Speed is guaranteed. Most of the mons find a passive mon that cant do jack to them to SD, then the rival switches and there's your +1 speed. Being naturally faster to avoid taunt and poison to avoid being toxicd in that turn also helps.

Then you have a monster with around 140 base in both attack and def, with about 367/490 speed, with access to poison jab, gunk shot, megahorn or earthquake. You can't even aggressively check it with things like, say, scarf lele, since the turn it comes in looking for the obvious SD base form is still faster than it.

There's also an undeniable truth and that is the fact that it gets shut down by steel flyings.
 
I've been travelling for work and so haven't read every post here, bit behind.

Could someone kindly either summarise the game's story or point me to a summary of it somewhere? I actually don't know literally anything about what happens in this game, who the bad guys are, how any of the plot-relevant legendaries are encountered (outside of Mewtwo which I saw earlier). Thanks.
 
The best potential ability for Mega Scolipede out of all that make sense is Tinted Lens. This allows to run both SD and Protect in a single set, getting to +2 and not caring about not being able to hit everything. Megahorn + Rock Slide or Aqua Tail should be able to hit everything at least neutrally with Tinted Lens in mind. Of course, the drawback is that vs fast offensive teams you only get one shot at sweeping, this won't be a hit and run Mon.

Without Tinted Lens, it can't afford to run both Protect and SD, since it would be walled by a lot of things.
 
yeahhh there are a few outs. but its not sweeping with 2 attacks unless it has something new and fancy to lean on ability-wise.

the whole defensive attacker shakeup could have been interesting if not for it 100% needing boots for that job.
 
Kav said:
yeahhh there are a few outs. but its not sweeping with 2 attacks unless it has something new and fancy to lean on ability-wise.

the whole defensive attacker shakeup could have been interesting if not for it 100% needing boots for that job.
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I'm not saying this will 100% change in the next generation, but I do think there's a problem with the approach on boots.

Pokémon has been existing for 7 Generations prior to the introduction of HDB. While I am not saying they'll just disappear in the near future, the items Pokémon held have to do with the context of the entire metagame they play in. Changes in moves, mechanics (heck, they can even change how hazards work or how much damage they inflict), abilities, and therefor viable mons, all of that have to do with the prevalence of an item, be it boots, gems, LO, sash, booster energy or whatever.

I'd find it pretty, pretty sad, if 20 years later on Gen 22 we are still looking at a fire type and saying "oh it needs boots, its its only way of avoiding hazard damage". And I sincerely don't think it'll be like that.
 
Sirya said:
I'm not saying this will 100% change in the next generation, but I do think there's a problem with the approach on boots.

Pokémon has been existing for 7 Generations prior to the introduction of HDB. While I am not saying they'll just disappear in the near future, the items Pokémon held have to do with the context of the entire metagame they play in. Changes in moves, mechanics (heck, they can even change how hazards work or how much damage they inflict), abilities, and therefor viable mons, all of that have to do with the prevalence of an item, be it boots, gems, LO, sash, booster energy or whatever.

I'd find it pretty, pretty sad, if 20 years later on Gen 22 we are still looking at a fire type and saying "oh it needs boots, its its only way of avoiding hazard damage". And I sincerely don't think it'll be like that.
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I'd like to hope that Champions tones down that sentiment slightly. The official games haven't yet had a meta with both Boots and an item-based gimmick so people who don't play Natdex don't have as obvious an example of what Boots gives up. At the very least, the crowd will need to find a different scapegoat than Charizard when nobody in their right mind would take Boots Zard over either Mega.

I do think gen 9 had very strong hazard options which made Boots more desirable. But I feel that hazards were buffed in gen 9 in response to Boots being common in gen 8 despite hazards not being meaningfully stronger at the time than in gen 7. It remains to be seen whether that arms race will continue.
 
Sirya said:
I'm not saying this will 100% change in the next generation, but I do think there's a problem with the approach on boots.

Pokémon has been existing for 7 Generations prior to the introduction of HDB. While I am not saying they'll just disappear in the near future, the items Pokémon held have to do with the context of the entire metagame they play in. Changes in moves, mechanics (heck, they can even change how hazards work or how much damage they inflict), abilities, and therefor viable mons, all of that have to do with the prevalence of an item, be it boots, gems, LO, sash, booster energy or whatever.

I'd find it pretty, pretty sad, if 20 years later on Gen 22 we are still looking at a fire type and saying "oh it needs boots, its its only way of avoiding hazard damage". And I sincerely don't think it'll be like that.
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Eh, you really notice the difference in longevity between Boots Pokemon and Megas when the two are allowed.

Its not entirely a dealbreaker - most Megas can still be good, but it is a big limitation with them. If there are other gimmicks on top of the Mega Evolution like Tera, then the Megas also suffer from not being able to use them.

In gen 9 national dex when Tera was lega, most of the megas kinda just felt like they were missing something due to the lack of Tera + Boots compared to other guys that could make use of both, like Volcarona or Weavile.
 
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Magcargo said:
Eh, you really notice the difference in longevity between Boots Pokemon and Megas when the two are allowed.

Its not entirely a dealbreaker - most Megas can still be good, but it is a big limitation with them. If there are other gimmicks on top of the Mega Evolution like Tera, then the Megas also suffer from not being able to use them.

In gen 9 national dex when Tera was lega, most of the megas kinda just felt like they were missing something due to the lack of Tera + Boots compared to other guys that could make use of both, like Volcarona or Weavile.
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yeah. it'll likely stand out a lot with scol in particular. since aside from the sweeper set people are trying to salvage, they've more or less reworked it into a bulky pivot with hazards/u-turn. pretty much exactly the type of thing that would be locking in boots even if it wasn't rocks-weak.
 
Worldie said:
While yes, it lost Return, nothing stops it from running Double Edge for even higher BP

Yeah the recoil yadayada but Lopunny is a glass cannon anyway, if you need it to punch holes then the recoil isnt exactly a huge deal (expecially as you are mostly clicking CC anyway)

I am honestly looking forward for M-Lop on vgc. The scrappy buff alone is insane, and a simple set of Fake Out / CC / U-turn / Protect alone probably gets the job done for a proper hit and run setup
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Assuming it keeps Double-Edge, anyway. It got it in L:A but who knows if it sticks around. A lot of pokemon got to keep it thanks to SV TM, but we all know how fickle L:A gets could be. And who knows what Champions will do with Pokemon who weren't in SV as a baseline; it's possible it just sticks with the SWSH movesets in situations like this until the next time they show up. In which case its best normal stab option would be...Headbutt, Strength, Mega Kick (120 BP, 75% accuracy...) or I guess trying to get a status on it to use Facade?

honestly maybe it just sticks with its fighting stab.
 
Magcargo said:
Eh, you really notice the difference in longevity between Boots Pokemon and Megas when the two are allowed.

Its not entirely a dealbreaker - most Megas can still be good, but it is a big limitation with them. If there are other gimmicks on top of the Mega Evolution like Tera, then the Megas also suffer from not being able to use them.

In gen 9 national dex when Tera was lega, most of the megas kinda just felt like they were missing something due to the lack of Tera + Boots compared to other guys that could make use of both, like Volcarona or Weavile.
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I do.

What I mean is that I think it's incorrect to think of HDB as something that permanently undermines certain Pokémon types. Because while it is true now, it may and probably will be different in the future.
 
Yung Dramps said:
Ever since news for this game began in earnest I've been maintaining a google doc tracking the Pokemon that have Megas, sorted together by region and Pokedex number. If this alleged list of DLC Megas winds up being accurate, we now have...

Kanto, Johto, Hoenn
View attachment 779195
Sinnoh through Paldea
View attachment 779196
Falinks and the 4 Paldea lines are together to stay on one page in the google doc. I also included Hoopa despite no game data hinting at it due to its status as a DLC mascot making a Mega likely. In addition, Groudon and Kyogre are being counted as Mega-adjacents despite their forms being named and working a bit differently.

This leaves us with 90 Mega Evolution users and 96 Mega Evolutions in total.
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Something I notice about the list of supposed DLC Megas is that there is at least one Mega for each type, which feels realistic to me, because it’s something that GF have been pretty consistent about with power-up forms. There was at least one G-Max for every type. There was/is at least one Mega for each type in XY and Z-A. ORAS’s Megas almost covered all 18, except for Electric (I wonder if something got scrapped?).

(However, the only Normal-type among the DLC Megas is Staraptor, and I’d be surprised if a Mega Staraptor didn’t shoot for Fighting/Flying given that Close Combat is like, the thing Staraptor is most known for. Unless they also make Chimecho Psychic/Normal or something lol.)
 
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