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SPOILERS! Legends ZA Data Dumps - Adding Info to OP

Greninja:
Out of the 3, the one I like less. This was not the case with the base Mons, I liked Gren more than Delphox.
1. Infiltrator. Ninja theme, fits very well. Not the best ability, but Dragapult makes good use of it.
2. Skill Link. This would work for only one move, but Modest Nasty Plot Water Shuriken in Rain should be able to do a lot of damage. It could also allow Greninja to invest in bulk and power instead of Speed, which is already high uninvested.
3. Protean. See first Chesnaught's ability.
I had an intrusive thought that said "what if Game Freak gave it super Protean because favoritism" (read: old Protean + Adaptability or something else stupid) and honestly it's 50/50 whether they'll purposely try to break one of the most popular Pokémon.
 
Ability speculation for revealed Megas by Eeveeto.

Will post 3 logic abilities for each (well, most) revealed Mega based on design, typing and Pokedex entry. This holds no value in this game, but if they are introduced into the main saga, ability will determine viability. Therefore, predicting them looks fun.

Clefable:
First thing I want to mention about this guy is that it might be getting Quiver Dance. Has wings (even without Mega), known to like dancing. This of course would make it demonic competitively, since it also learns Stored Power and can heal with Moonlight.
1. Magic Guard. Nothing original, just keeping a good ability it already has. Since its weak to Rocks, it would come handy.
2. Unaware. Same reasoning, already good ability that it has. No status or Hazard immunity, but the superior bulk the Mega has, means it can check lots of Mons, while boosting with CM or the for now uncofirmed SD.
3. New ability that triggers Gravity. This is based on the Pokedex entry alone "It flies by using the power of moonlight to control gravity within a radius of over 32 feet around it." I don,t think this is very likely due to Clef having the Flying type. It does allow to use Blizzard, Thunder or Fire Blast from 135 Special Atack, however.

Victreebel:
This guy has been robbed hard in terms of Stats. That being said, it can be saved by a good ability.
1. Corrosion. Known for its Acids, this is very likely and hope it ends up being it. Despite being robbed in Stats, Victreebel gained bulk. It has slightly lower physical bulk than Glimmora, but higher special. On both sides it has much more bulk than Salazzle, therefore it would be the best Corrosion user. Unlike the other 2, it has Synthesis and is not murdered by the best Toxic absorber, which is Gliscor. Corrosion would give Victreebel a big niche.
2. Poison Touch. It pursuits preys now instead of waiting them, so it could have this. It has Leaf Blade, Knock Off, Poison Jab and Sucker Punch. Its much worse than Corrosion, but not useless.
3. New ate ability, similar to Refrigerate, but for Poison moves. Very unlikely, and not very good, since Poison is a bad typing.

Starmie:
Pure Power or Huge Power, nothing to see here, we know for certain what it will have.

Dragonite:
Weird Mega that now is Special. I am quite certain it won,t have Aerilate. Not certain whether it will be good, but its still Dragonite, so by Stats alone it will be viable, just like Mega Garchomp was.
1. Soul Heart. Kind Mon that finishes foes with mercy in its heart. This makes sense. Its an ability that for now only Magearna has, but Drought and Drizzle also were abilities exclussive to legendaries before Ninetales and Politoed got them.
2. No Guard. Hurricane its Dragonite's strongest Special move, if it always hits, it will be good. Dragonite also learns Draco Meteor, Thunder, Fire Blast, Blizzard or Hydro Pump. Slower than Pidgeot, but still better otherwise.
3. Multiscale. Of course, we can,t discard it just stays with the original good ability. No Boots, so learn to support it with spinners.

Meganium:
This has always been my favorite starter across all Gens and the Mega did not dissapoint...outside of not having Moonblast. But there is a way to solve that:
1. Pixilate. Meganium does not learn Hyper Voice either, but thats a move much easier to add to Mons than Moonblast, half of the Pokedex learns it.
2. Flower Veil. I don,t know whether what Meganium has around the neck qualifies as a Veil, but it would be a very good ability for it. No Stats drops (which means, Specs Pult locked in Shadow Ball is not breaking this) and Status immunity would allow Meganium to be a very good tank that is hard to wear down.
3. Aroma Veil. Pokedex entry: "The aroma that rises from its petals contains a substance that calms aggressive feelings." Worse than the previous one, but still has its uses.

Feraligatr:
Meme Mega... but should be cool competitively. Its not a Fish, so its getting Fishious Rend.
1. Strong Jaw. All about Feraligatr are its jaws, so this is quite likely. Ice Fang and Crunch are unfortunately the only moves that benefit.
2. Tough Claws. Less likely, but benefits way more moves.
3. Sheer Force. Might as well keep what is already decent, though no LO to benefit from.

Skarmory:
As I keep saying for a long time, after being in OU between Gen 2 and 8... this Pokemon sucks incredibly hard in SV OU due to Ghost and Tera Ghost Mons abusing its existance. Mega gives it a new life and it has an epic design.
1. Sharpness. Its sharp and this is a very cool ability. Aerial Ace is unfortunately the only physical STAB that benefits from it, but with 140 Attack it might be enough. X-Scissors is bad on Skarm, Slash is worse, but Night Slash is actually useful to pair with Body Press, so the Ghosts that normally abuse Skarm are screwed.
2. Tough Claws. Pokedex description: "It flies faster than the speed of sound. After whipping up shock waves to send enemies flying, it finishes them off with its talons." All Skarmory moves make contact, so this would probably be even better than Sharpness, though far less likely.
3. Good as Gold. Its golden. That would be the entire justification. It would make Skarmory as the most balanced version of Gholdengo. No Wows to ruin its sweep, no Taunt to block it, no Defog removing hazards, but at least you can still Spin.

Froslass:
One the big 3 in terms of design (Skarmory and Chesnaught are the other ones).
1. Snow Warning. I mean, its an Ice type. I liked it more when Hail dealt damage, but the Defense boost allows Froslass to either set Spikes or boost with Nasty Plot. BoltBeam at +2 from 140 Special Attack will hurt.
2. Some new ability that makes Freezes happen more often. I don,t want this, since it would likely be unfairly banned.
3. Snow Cloak. I also hope we don,t get this, since it would also be unfairly banned.

Emboar:
Out of the 3 Fire Fight starters, this has always been the one I liked most. Hopefully it gets Slack Off.
1. Supreme Overlord. Looks like a general. It would be a worse Kingambit, but it would actually beat Kingambit. It does learn Non-STAB Sucker Punch.
2. Defiant. "Brandishing a blazing flame shaped like a serpentine spear, it rushes in to rescue its imperiled allies." Brave Mon with a brave ability.
3. Guts. Same reasoning here. Not very good due to not being activated by burns.

Scolipede:
Due to the Stats changes, this Mega will be entirely carried out by the ability choice.
1. Tinted Lens. This would allow to Protect + SD to be run on the same set.
2. Merciless. "Its deadly venom gives off a faint glow. The venom affects Scolipede's mind, honing its viciousness." The second part of this qualifies for this. It would require teammates support.
3. Toxic Debris. It has a lot of Spikes. Pretty sure some of them are easy to fall. With the new bulk, it could activate this ability a lot. Much worse than Tinted Lens and unlike Glimmora takes Mega slot, but it has its use.

Scrafty:
Idk what to think of this one... Would have liked Krookodile more. Its nonetheless a very strong Mega.
1. Shed Skin. Literally already has it and mentioned in the Mega Pokedex description. Very good ability.
2. Wonder Skin. Skin is the most important body part this guy has and this would be a good way to promote the broken ability that for now only Bad Mons have.
3. Prankster. It gained Parting Shot. This would be a very good way to use it, given that the Dark types that are immune to it, get hit by Fight STAB.

Eelektross:
Well, at least it now outspeeds the walls it intends to break. Like 323121 other Mons.
1. Levitate. Why change what already works?
2. Transistor. "It now generates 10 times the electricity it did before Mega Evolving." This would be the justification. And it would be neat, unlike Regieleki, it has Grass and Water coverage for Grounds.
3. Dry Skin. Lives in Water, so makes sense. I don,t think trading Ground immunity for this is a good trade though.

Chandelure:
Nuclear power is good, but why would I use this over Specs Hisuian Typhlosion or Blacephalon?
1. Shadow Tag. Well, this is why. Except it would go to Ubers one minute after arriving.
2. Cursed Body. Common Ghost ability. Not very good, but RNG is always fun.
3. Infiltrator. Another common Ghost ability. Screens and Subs now don,t protect you from 175 power Overheats.

Chesnaught:
This is the Mega I like the most. I might be biased, since Chesnaught was already my favorite Kalos starter, but it looks even cooler as a Mega. Stats distribution made this Mon very optimized, though the typing is still mid.
1. Bulletproof. Another case of "Why change what already works"?
2. Battle Armor. "It has fortified armor and a will to defend at all costs. Both are absurdly strong." Goes very well with the warrior theme this Mon has. This ability could allow Chesnaught to invest in Sdef and run IronPress, never being critted.
3. Rough Skin. I see lots of Spikes on Chesnaught's body. So far, the only Iron Barbs/Rough Skin Mon with recovery was Togedemaru, which has Wish. Despite Synthesis having less PP, Chesnaught should be able to last longer and cause passive damage.

Delphox:
Another good design, which also comes with a rare typing.
1. Magic Guard. Fits for a wizard theme and protects Delphox from hazards and Poison. Would make it an offensive powerhouse.
2. Magic Bounce. Same reasoning here. Harder to use, but the reward is also higher.
3. Levitate. Withes fly, so why wouldn,t Mega Delphox be able to do the same? Removing one of the 5 weaknesses is useful, though it would still be vulnerable to Rocks.

Greninja:
Out of the 3, the one I like less. This was not the case with the base Mons, I liked Gren more than Delphox.
1. Infiltrator. Ninja theme, fits very well. Not the best ability, but Dragapult makes good use of it.
2. Skill Link. This would work for only one move, but Modest Nasty Plot Water Shuriken in Rain should be able to do a lot of damage. It could also allow Greninja to invest in bulk and power instead of Speed, which is already high uninvested.
3. Protean. See first Chesnaught's ability.

Pyroar:
Boring Mon, boring Mega. At least it got Earth Power now.
1. White Smoke. Immunity to Sticky Web. Rare ability that could somewhat work.
2. Rivalry. On gender related Mons this is common. Very unreliable though.
3. Intimidate. Arcanine has it, Manectric has it, Incineroar has it, why a lion wouldn,t?

Floette Eternal:
I hope this finally makes it to a mainline game.
1. Regenerator. Eternal life. Simple and very good.
2. Natural Cure. Pretty much the same reasoning. Not as good on an offensive Mon, but useful to heal paralysis.
3. A new ability that makes Grass moves 50% stronger. Apparently the flower now attacks on its own, so it could be a second STAB, though it wouldn,t be very effective.

Malamar:
Never liked this Mon and the Megas isn,t impressive either. This should have been a Gogoat or a Pangoro instead.
1. Contrary. Almost 100% sure its this one. Stats are too lackuster otherwise.
2. Simple. Of course, with so many set-up moves, this is also an option.
3. Moody. This guy is a villain, like Scovillain, who has the same ability. A shame Smogon does not allow fun.

Barbaracle:
Regardless of the ability, this Mega has a decent chance to end up in Ubers. Mega, Shell Smash and type change (which allows mind games) in one. Mega Blastoise was banned for less in National Dex (fake meta though).
1. Tough Claws. Another case of a Mon in which the already good ability might stay.
2. Skill Link. Just like with Greninja, only works for one move, but Rock Blast hitting 5 times at +2 is enough vs most of the meta. Mega gaining Fight type means it could also get Arm Thrust, though CC is better.
3. Trace. It has many brains, so it might as well use them to copy the ability of the opponent. This could be funny if the opponent is Shedinja.

Dragalge:
Did not expect the cancer lore. Regardless of what it does, this is a Trick Room Mega.
1. Corrosion. If the liquid is deadly to everything other than itself, it might be something very Corrosive. Dragalge has ways to threaten Gliscor. The great bulk would make this very interesting.
2. Regenerator. Regenerative power of cells. If they are its own cells, its good. A Regenerator Mega with good offensive power and 65/105/165 bulk is nothing to underestimate, especially since it also has Flip Turn.
3. Merciless. Another Poison ability that could fit.

Hawlucha:
70% of times people lost to this Mon in OU meta were because their team were either poorly built or they played them badly. I include my own loses in this statistics, the Mon is very fraudulent and overrated. Hopefully the Mega changes it.
1. Tinted Lens. Only way of making Flying Press somewhat good, in case they want to do it.
2. Reckless. HJK + Brave Bird abuse.
3. No Guard. Doesn,t learn Dynamic Punch unfortunately, but HJK, SE and Dual WIngbeat are right there. Both this and the previous ability come from the Pokedex description: "Hawlucha flexes to show off its strength."

Zygarde:
No Speculation here. Both previous Zygarde abilities are exclussive to it, so it probably will get something completely new. Also, does it need to be 100% and activate Power Construct to Mega Evolve? Does it need a Megastone? Regardless of that, this snake is Uber and might be even AG. Hopefully the 50% one returns to OU, with its movepool nerfed (unlikely to retain Toxic and Rest now has only 8 PP).

Drampa:
Would have liked a Mega Palossand or Toucannon, but this is not a bad choice for an Alola Mega.
1. Regenerator. "Drampa's cells have been invigorated, allowing it to regain its youth." As 90% of the Mons, it would be extremely good with this.
2. Drizzle. "It manipulates the atmosphere to summon storms." Learns Thunder, Hurricane and Hydro Pump. There is no Drizzle Mega yet, only weather that remains.
3. Friend's Guard. This comes more from the base form Pokedex, but fits.

Falinks:
With only 1 Galar Mega, this has been the best choice. Would have hated a Mega Toxtricity or Mr. Rime.
1. Battle Bond. Ok, let me explain this one. In Gen 7 and 8 this was the description of this ability:
"Defeating an opposing Pokémon strengthens the Pokémon's bond with its Trainer, and it becomes Ash-Greninja. Water Shuriken gets more powerful."
In Gen 9 it changed to this:
"When the Pokémon knocks out a target, its bond with its Trainer is strengthened, and its Attack, Sp. Atk, and Speed stats are boosted."
And Mega Falinks Pokedex description is this:
"Mega Falinks has taken on the ultimate battle formation, which can be achieved only if the troopers and brass have the strongest of bonds."
So, the ability doesn,t mention Greninja anymore, meaning more Mons could have it. Therefore, a Pokemon that depends on strong bonds would be an ideal receptor. No Retreat, kill something and go wild.
2. A new ability that makes each move hit 6 times at a reduced power. Do I need to explain this one?
3. Battle Armor. A way to ruin Falinks after No Retreat are crits. Well, not anymore. One more of the list of abilities that No Mega Mons already have.

Won,t speculate on either of the Raichus. They are too similar to each other and might go in any direction possible. For what is worth, they might even have Plus and Minus.

Have a nice Eeveening and crazy Speculation!
I think there's also a good possibility that we see the surge abilities on some of the megas, especially since gen 6 was when they first introduced the terrains in the first place. Grassy surge would work well on Meganium, Delphox would love psychic surge, Eelektross would exist I guess, and I can even see Froslass getting misty surge to match with the icy mist coming out of her dress.

Also, I've seen people suggest stamina for Hawlucha (would fit with that bit in the trailer where it tanks a hit from Machamp), which could make it actually pretty good.
 
merciless is a pun about starfish in japanese so it probably isn't going to be given to anything else
Not necessarily. Rough Skin being shark Skin didn't stop Druddigon getting it. Big Pecks is literally "Pigeon Breast" and things aggressively not even remotely pigeons got it. I think something else getting it later down the line isn't off the table, especially when the name just happens to be a pun.



..that said I do think Scolipede will opt for a more defensive ability, rather than merciless. I know it's got those huge fancy feelers now, but I just keep looking at its defensive stats and how it's wearing an iron apron.
 
Then why do you keep arguing that “Draconite” would be a better name for two days straight?

"keep arguing" when I gave a single reply and afterwards clearly showed I was dropping the subject.

Nothing I said was that serious

I just prefer to be clear cut when I highlight why someone is wrong

Fair, I just felt the tone was weird but that's on me. In the end you are right, my idea couldn't work in a world where actual Draco- mons exist anyway.

More or less. There’s 1 guy in XY who exists to provide a lore dump about Xerneas or Yveltal, depending in your version. He tells you about two incidents: 800 years ago when Xerneas released life energy throughout Kalos / Yveltal absorbed life energy throughout Kalos, in preparation for their thousand-year sleep. And then 3,000 years ago during the war, where it’s rumored that Xerneas went around aiding victims of the war / Yveltal went around making even more people dead, though the guy telling you this notes that these tales from 3,000 years ago may have just been using the Legendary Pokémon as a metaphor for peoples’ hopes for a reprieve from / the source of the war’s misery.

And then in the post-game, it’s suggested by Sycamore that Xerneas / Yveltal’s power being channeled through the ultimate weapon 3,000 years ago may be what caused Kalos’s Mega Stones to form.

The thing is, I don’t think Xerneas and Yveltal are really all that different from, say, Ho-Oh or the Galarian wolves, in the sense that they are basically only known for their involvement in one or two particular incidents in the region’s history. It’s not like Reshiram and Zekrom or Solgaleo and Lunala, where they’re important to the region’s foundation, nor like Groudon and Kyogre or Dialga and Palkia, where they have a more cosmological significance as creators of the world. They’re just local legends with a remarkable power, except Xerneas and Yveltal also occupy the Necrozma/Eternatus/Terapagos role of being the source of the region’s special battle mechanic. The difference is, they’re abstracted from the center stage a bit by AZ and the ancient war itself, which form the core of Kalos’s mythology. Xerneas and Yveltal had a part to play in that event, but they weren’t the main characters.

I only played Y and I never really got how Xerneas fit into the lore (ok, Yveltal was used for the weapon because he's death incarnate, but then Xerneas in X...?), and this makes Xerneas look even more removed from it lmao. It's so weird that legendaries connected to such basilar concepts are just a footnote in the grand epic of Eternal Floette and her bff AZ.
 
I only played Y and I never really got how Xerneas fit into the lore (ok, Yveltal was used for the weapon because he's death incarnate, but then Xerneas in X...?), and this makes Xerneas look even more removed from it lmao. It's so weird that legendaries connected to such basilar concepts are just a footnote in the grand epic of Eternal Floette and her bff AZ.
So the weapon can grant eternal life and also kill you, which is mostly unrelated to what's powering the weapon, but the dichotomy between his threat in Y version: The ultimate weapon is a flower that bloomed to no avail... Just like me... But this ends here! I will show what its remaining power can do!

VS his threat in X version

"<player>, Sycamore's pupils... Let us live forever... That's right! I shall grant you eternal life! I'll give you the pain of endlessly waiting for a beautiful world to finally be built!

Is very funny.
 
So the weapon can grant eternal life and also kill you, which is mostly unrelated to what's powering the weapon, but the dichotomy between his threat in Y version: The ultimate weapon is a flower that bloomed to no avail... Just like me... But this ends here! I will show what its remaining power can do!

VS his threat in X version

"<player>, Sycamore's pupils... Let us live forever... That's right! I shall grant you eternal life! I'll give you the pain of endlessly waiting for a beautiful world to finally be built!

Is very funny.

Wait lmao. The immortality is not some kind of side-effect from firing the weapon? I thought that was why AZ lived for so long, all that stolen lifeforce had to go somewhere. XY's plot probably needed a final review pass before hitting the shelves, huh.


Ability speculation for revealed Megas by Eeveeto.

(snip)
Starmie - Imo it's 100% Pure Power. Huge Power tends to be associated with leporine pokemon (Mawile kind of could maybe be seen as a bunnygirl if you look at her mouth the wrong way), while you can justify Starmie practiced a bit of yoga to stretch its legs and now it has Pure (Yoga) Power. Yes, I went to Clown College.

Meganium - I'm still banking on Flower Veil for it (even if it's not physical-oriented), but I have a fear they might be insane and give it Triage. They already took the romhack route by giving it Fairy, just go all in.

Feraligatr - The Mega has ~35% more Atk than base already, so Feraligite is simply a better Life Orb. They will probably be stupid and give it Strong Jaw, but Sheer Force is not left hanging by the Mega.

Skarmory - I'm going with Tough Claws too just because of their ridiculous size (and if they give it GaG I'm lobbying for a ban (I really hate GaG)).

Froslass - I feel Ice-types are getting increasingly pigeonholed into Snow and I'd rather see something different. Someone on reddit suggested Wind Rider and I liked it, but I feel they're going with Snow Warning too, unfortunately.

Emboar - I'll throw a curveball and bet on Friend Guard. VGC needs a second fire-type starter being relevant, clearly.

Scolipede - My heart tells me it's going to be Stamina or something dumb like Battle Armor.

Eelektross - If they remove Levitate they kill the gimmick, so yeah they're keeping it.

Chandelure - I want it to be Shadow Tag, I feel it will be, but at the same time I think they'll be cowards and go with Infiltrator.

Delphox - Best thing about it is that they are forced to change Magician lmao. I'm going with Magic Bounce because Magic Guard would imo encroach too much on Alakazam.

Greninja - don't care

Pyroar - remember when Litleo was revealed and people on 4chan and other sites theorized that it would evolve into a Fire/Poison manticore, specially because of that pointy tail that reminded people of a scorpion? Cool, yeah? Anyway, I'm still mad.

Malamar - I like the reasoning for Moody, but I really just want it to get Contrary again (and Power Trip (seriously why doesn't it learn Power Trip).

Barbaracle - There's a chance they will simply not give Shell Smash back (same thing with Blastoise), so I'm not too worried.

Dragalge - God it has to be Regenerator, bro deserves it. It was the first thing I thought when I read the dex entry, cancer be damned. Then again, the entry kinda covers Adaptability...

Hawlucha - I was going to say Stamina because of that talk of getting increased defenses but it's just from the website, the Dex doesn't mention it lmao. I legitimately do not know what they're cooking here.

Zygarde - sin against mankind

Drampa - Drizzle. If it's not Drizzle it's a fraud.
 
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Wait lmao. The immortality is not some kind of side-effect from firing the weapon? I thought that was why AZ lived for so long, all that stolen lifeforce had to go somewhere. XY's plot probably needed a final review pass before hitting the shelves, huh.
I think the weapon is responsible (which makes sense, it made AZ & his Floette immortal but also was a weapon of mass destruction), but Lysandre's goal with firing the weapon on top of himself just changes to match the theming of the legend.
 
I only played Y and I never really got how Xerneas fit into the lore (ok, Yveltal was used for the weapon because he's death incarnate, but then Xerneas in X...?), and this makes Xerneas look even more removed from it lmao. It's so weird that legendaries connected to such basilar concepts are just a footnote in the grand epic of Eternal Floette and her bff AZ.

In a manner of speaking, Xerneas doesn’t really fit into Y’s lore, nor does Yveltal into X’s. Whenever Yveltal is mentioned in Y, they just swap in Xerneas in X and talk about it giving life instead of taking it. Their opposite may as well not even exist in their own world.

Wait lmao. The immortality is not some kind of side-effect from firing the weapon? I thought that was why AZ lived for so long, all that stolen lifeforce had to go somewhere. XY's plot probably needed a final review pass before hitting the shelves, huh.

No, you’re correct about the cause of AZ’s immortality (well, specifically I think it was when he used it to revive Floette).

The first time AZ used the device, in order to bring Floette back to life, he powered it using the life force of several Pokémon that were bound to the stones on Route 10. I think that is the point at which he became immortal.

The second time he used the weapon, it was to bring an end to the war. For this instance, he powered the weapon using Xerneas / Yveltal, since we know that energy being channeled through the weapon is what created Kalos’s Mega Stones.

It doesn’t really matter what you use to power the device, as long as it can provide a sufficient amount of life energy, because the operator of the device ultimately chooses how to use that energy, whether that means transferring the energy into another being or just firing it off as a big ol’ laser beam.

Both Xerneas and Yveltal just so happen to be great sources of life energy, but for different reasons (Xerneas radiates it, while Yveltal hoards it). So they’re perfect for powering the weapon, but it’s not as if everybody who was around at the time of the great Kalos war in X is alive and immortal, even though the weapon was powered by Xerneas in that reality.

I think the weapon is responsible (which makes sense, it made AZ & his Floette immortal but also was a weapon of mass destruction), but Lysandre's goal with firing the weapon on top of himself just changes to match the theming of the legend.

And, just to be pedantic, he doesn’t strictly say that the weapon blast won’t make them immortal in Y. He just isn’t explicit about it.

Is Eternal Floette classified as a legendary in these games?

No, she’s not counted as a Legendary or Mythical or anything like that.

(Amusingly, Shiinotic still is mistakenly classified as a Mythical instead of Marshadow. Surely they’ll fix that when the DLC comes since Marshadow is one of the returning Pokémon…?)
 
I think its funny that Yveltal and Xerneas once again get shafted in Lore relevance. The only thing we even know about them is from some throw away anime episode years ago. They were being used to power a weapon in XY and now they just exist in the world and randomly show up. Like zygarde is the best thing to come from XY and he had to be built over multiple games to be what it is now. "Aspect of death and life, and they're just basic mons in intelligence and relevance"
Imo i think the issue is just Kalos itself as a region got shafted. Even before the teraleak data mines discovered that there are 2 additional games with the gen 6 pentagon and both Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves are already in the game. Teraleak confirmed that Kalos was supposed to got a game after ORAS in 2015 (unknown if its sequels or USUM style) but got shelved in favor of SM.
 
So... the Data mines said Nihil Light has 100 Power, right? Why do Serebii and Bulbapedia say it has 200 Power? Can someone who's played the game double check?

Edit: I skimmed through the last few posts to see if anyone mentioned that. I somehow missed this.
Is Eternal Floette classified as a legendary in these games?

And holy moly, Nihil Light had 200 base power...
 
So... the Data mines said Nihil Light has 100 Power, right? Why do Serebii and Bulbapedia say it has 200 Power? Can someone who's played the game double check?

Edit: I skimmed through the last few posts to see if anyone mentioned that. I somehow missed this.
The move data people originally found was based on unused SV table data, with PP and accuracy and most moves having their original SV powers and Nihil Light being a Core Enforcer clone. The actual new ZA move data used ingame has the 200 BP Nihil Light with its described effects.
 
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Is Eternal Floette classified as a legendary in these games?

And holy moly, Nihil Light had 200 base power...
A 200 power Nihil Light wouldn't be an unthinkable level of power in restricted legendary rulesets. For example, at level 50:

(268 [252 SpA Mega Zygarde] * 200 [Nihil Light]) / (187 [252 SpA Miraidon] * 100 [Electro Drift] * 5461/4096 [Hadron Engine] * 5325/4096 [Electric Terrain] * 1.5 [Choice Specs] = 1.1025

Nihil Light would only be about 10% stronger than Choice Specs Miraidon's Electro Drift, and that's not accounting for a potential Tera Electric boost. Miraidon can just do that straight away without, at minimum, two turns of set-up to use (turn 1: somehow activate Power Contruct, turn 2: Mega Evolve, turn 3: Nihil Light)

It legitimately needs to have 200 power with its additional effects of bypassing the Fairy-type's immunity and ignoring the target's stat changes for Mega Zygarde to be viable in the traditional turn-based games. I'm thinking about its use in the formats GameFreak balances for, being 3v3 Singles and 4v4 Doubles. Zygarde will be by far the most difficult Pokemon to Mega Evolve, as it needs to dangerously lose half its health on top of holding a Mega Stone just to even be possible. Zygarde will be stuck with base 81 Sp. Atk in its 50% form, making it a pitifully weak restricted legendary before it can potentially Mega Evolve, and like Ultra Necrozma and Light that Burns the Sky, Zygarde probably won't be able to Mega Evolve and use Nihil Light on the same turn. Given those onerous downsides, it needs a spectacular upside to be competitive with Rayquaza in particular, other restricted legendaries more generally, and even non-legendary Megas like Gengar and Salamence.

This is a simple set Zygarde could use in Doubles, for example:

Zygarde @ Zygardite
Ability: Power Construct
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Core Enforcer
- Earth Power
- Substitute / Glare
- Protect

Substitute with an HP stat divisible by 4 is a potentially safer way to activate Power Construct, but it's far from guaranteed. I suppose one could run a defensive EV spread to attempt a safer activation of Power Construct and just rely on its raw base 216 Sp. Atk stat and Nihil Light's 200 power for damage after Mega Evolving, of course. Mega Zygarde with 0 SpA EVs still hits 88% as hard as one with 252 SpA EVs. Zygarde's movepool lacks any Sp. Atk boosting moves, though.

I'm hoping that Mega Zygarde's ability is something unique and not just the almost useless Aura Break. It's too bad that Land's Wrath isn't a special move, since it just looks like a spread damage version of Earth Power anyway, but uses green-colored energy instead of orange-colored energy. I sincerely hope that GameFreak doesn't wimp out on Mega Zygarde like they did on the unviable Mega Mewtwo X and Y.
 
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A 200 power Nihil Light wouldn't be an unthinkable level of power in restricted legendary rulesets. For example, at level 50:

(268 [252 SpA Mega Zygarde] * 200 [Nihil Light]) / (187 [252 SpA Miraidon] * 100 [Electro Drift] * 5461/4096 [Hadron Engine] * 5325/4096 [Electric Terrain] * 1.5 [Choice Specs] = 1.1025

Nihil Light would only be about 10% stronger than Choice Specs Miraidon's Electro Drift, and that's not accounting for a potential Tera Electric boost. Miraidon can just do that straight away without, at minimum, two turns of set-up to use (turn 1: somehow activate Power Contruct, turn 2: Mega Evolve, turn 3: Nihil Light)

It legitimately needs to have 200 power with its additional effects of bypassing the Fairy-type's immunity and ignoring the target's stat changes for Mega Zygarde to be viable in the traditional turn-based games. I'm thinking about its use in the formats GameFreak balances for, being 3v3 Singles and 4v4 Doubles. Zygarde will be by far the most difficult Pokemon to Mega Evolve, as it needs to dangerously lose half its health on top of holding a Mega Stone just to even be possible. Zygarde will be stuck with base 81 Sp. Atk in its 50% form, making it a pitifully weak restricted legendary before it can potentially Mega Evolve, and like Ultra Necrozma and Light that Burns the Sky, Zygarde probably won't be able to Mega Evolve and use Nihil Light on the same turn. Given those onerous downsides, it needs a spectacular upside to be competitive with Rayquaza in particular, other restricted legendaries more generally, and even non-legendary Megas like Gengar and Salamence.

This is a simple set Zygarde could use in Doubles, for example:

Zygarde @ Zygardite
Ability: Power Construct
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Core Enforcer
- Earth Power
- Substitute / Glare
- Protect

Substitute with an HP stat divisible by 4 is a potentially safer way to activate Power Construct, but it's far from guaranteed. I suppose one could run a defensive EV spread to attempt a safer activation of Power Construct and just rely on its raw base 216 Sp. Atk stat and Nihil Light's 200 power for damage after Mega Evolving, of course. Mega Zygarde with 0 SpA EVs still hits 88% as hard as one with 252 SpA EVs. Zygarde's movepool lacks any Sp. Atk boosting moves, though.

I'm hoping that Mega Zygarde's ability is something unique and not just the almost useless Aura Break. It's too bad that Land's Wrath isn't a special move, since it just looks like a spread damage version of Earth Power anyway, but uses green-colored energy instead of orange-colored energy. I sincerely hope that GameFreak doesn't wimp out on Mega Zygarde like they did on the unviable Mega Mewtwo X and Y.
While it is more difficult to access than most other Pokémon, the comparison ti Miraidon shows just how insanely strong it is. Miraidon's Electro Drift already is one of the strongest moves in the game - this is not choice locked, is on a more spammable STAB, and assuming it keeps Core Enforcer's targets, hits both opponents. We can also compare it to Water Spout Primal Kyogre since that's also a double targeting move - but Zygarde's faster, stronger, bulkier, and is more spammable. Nihil Light also straight up replaces Core Enforcer, so it should be usable turn 1, while Light That Burns The Sky was a separate moveslot. VGC's double targeting and Zygarde's lack if offensive presence before transforming will make it not as dummy strong in Doubles formats, but it probably still is a meta defining threat if it keeps the same numbers, and on singles, I honestly think it flat out beats stuff like gen 6 Mega Ray, gen 8 Zacian-C, and even the strongest of them all, gen 9 Calyrex-Shadow
 
Wait Specs Nihil Light is 50 %+ stronger than Miraidon with Specs? With no immunities? How much damage does it do to Blissey??
10% not 50%.

Starmie - Imo it's 100% Pure Power. Huge Power tends to be associated with leporine pokemon (Mawile kind of could maybe be seen as a bunnygirl if you look at her mouth the wrong way), while you can justify Starmie practiced a bit of yoga to stretch its legs and now it has Pure (Yoga) Power. Yes, I went to Clown College.
Star Power
 
nihil power is insane but ill be honest im worried that its middling speed and spdef means its going to get absolutely destroyed by a moonblast or perhaps any ice move. honestly its defense isnt that good either. top that with a 50% hp cap and i feel like this is a glass nuke
 
10% not 50%.


Star Power
268 [252 SpA Mega Zygarde] * 200 [Nihil Light]) / (187 [252 SpA Miraidon] * 100 [Electro Drift] * 5461/4096 [Hadron Engine] * 5325/4096 [Electric Terrain] * 1.5 [Choice Specs] = 1.1025

Nihil Light would only be about 10% stronger than Choice Specs Miraidon's Electro Drift...



--> the calc only says 268*200 there is no multiplier for specs...
 
268 [252 SpA Mega Zygarde] * 200 [Nihil Light]) / (187 [252 SpA Miraidon] * 100 [Electro Drift] * 5461/4096 [Hadron Engine] * 5325/4096 [Electric Terrain] * 1.5 [Choice Specs] = 1.1025

Nihil Light would only be about 10% stronger than Choice Specs Miraidon's Electro Drift...



--> the calc only says 268*200 there is no multiplier for specs...
The specs multiplier is at the end
 
I do think people oversell Zygarde there.

Sure it's going to speedrun AG any% in smogon, that's a given, but Zygarde Complete has been available in both gen 7 and gen 8 and it barely had any play. In a fast paced meta like VGC, needing to eat 50% damage to even activate your ability is a very toll task, expecially as you can't "just rest up to full".
Even during Dynamax, which on paper should be very good for Zygarde letting it somewhat easily tank a hit with Weakness policy and activate Power Construct, it had some experimentation but ended up being dropped by the time Worlds was around for the much more reliable Swordfish or Calyrex-based strategies.
Mega Necrozma also barely had any play for similar reason, "i do nothing for one turn" is rough, and you're still competing with other restricteds.
This isnt a case like Caly or Miraidon who just clicks the funny button, or pre-nerf Zacian that got to ignore the generational gimmick while also not needing it itself. The potentially double setup turn (take a big enough hit, survive, transform, mega evolve, click the funny button) is a huge toll, expecially when we're talking of a 4x ice weak pokemon in metas where things like Calyrex-Ice and the aforementioned Miraidon and Zacian exist and compete with it (+ whatever bullshit GF cooks for gen 10).
And all of this is assuming it doesn't take a item slot. If it's like Mega Rayquaza yea sure, in the end it's a Mega with insane stats that gets to hold a item, but if it ends up needing a item in the main games (kinda like Necrozma needs the Z-crystal)

TLDR: AG 100% no doubt but I wouldn't already count it as broken when it comes to VGC until we see how it actually works in the mainline combat system.
 
I do think people oversell Zygarde there.

Sure it's going to speedrun AG any% in smogon, that's a given, but Zygarde Complete has been available in both gen 7 and gen 8 and it barely had any play. In a fast paced meta like VGC, needing to eat 50% damage to even activate your ability is a very toll task, expecially as you can't "just rest up to full".
Even during Dynamax, which on paper should be very good for Zygarde letting it somewhat easily tank a hit with Weakness policy and activate Power Construct, it had some experimentation but ended up being dropped by the time Worlds was around for the much more reliable Swordfish or Calyrex-based strategies.
Mega Necrozma also barely had any play for similar reason, "i do nothing for one turn" is rough, and you're still competing with other restricteds.
This isnt a case like Caly or Miraidon who just clicks the funny button, or pre-nerf Zacian that got to ignore the generational gimmick while also not needing it itself. The potentially double setup turn (take a big enough hit, survive, transform, mega evolve, click the funny button) is a huge toll, expecially when we're talking of a 4x ice weak pokemon in metas where things like Calyrex-Ice and the aforementioned Miraidon and Zacian exist and compete with it (+ whatever bullshit GF cooks for gen 10).
And all of this is assuming it doesn't take a item slot. If it's like Mega Rayquaza yea sure, in the end it's a Mega with insane stats that gets to hold a item, but if it ends up needing a item in the main games (kinda like Necrozma needs the Z-crystal)

TLDR: AG 100% no doubt but I wouldn't already count it as broken when it comes to VGC until we see how it actually works in the mainline combat system.
It does take an item, Zygardite exists.
 
Maybe it's a waste of a bonkers Sp.Atk stat but I imagine you could play with the EVs more than just dumping half of them on it. Granted 0-4 EVs would be too silly.

(Zygarde does have more Sp. Atk than an fully invested Deoxys Atk at 0 though, which is hilarious)
 
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It'll be interesting to see if the pre- transformation state of Zygarde will be any issue. You do have Glare, but Zygarde's base form is usually focused on doing completely different things from its Mega like Coiling, clicking Thousand Arrows, etc. The Mega is a special attacker, but the pre-Mega state wont be hitting hard at all with these special moves. I'm wondering if in practice, this Drawback will matter or if Zygarde can just power through it by Subbing / Glaring and getting into complete range that way.

I did a damage calc comparison and Modest Zygarde hits slightly harder than LO Sheer Force Lando-I which is something
 
I do think people oversell Zygarde there.

Sure it's going to speedrun AG any% in smogon, that's a given, but Zygarde Complete has been available in both gen 7 and gen 8 and it barely had any play. In a fast paced meta like VGC, needing to eat 50% damage to even activate your ability is a very toll task, expecially as you can't "just rest up to full".
Even during Dynamax, which on paper should be very good for Zygarde letting it somewhat easily tank a hit with Weakness policy and activate Power Construct, it had some experimentation but ended up being dropped by the time Worlds was around for the much more reliable Swordfish or Calyrex-based strategies.
Mega Necrozma also barely had any play for similar reason, "i do nothing for one turn" is rough, and you're still competing with other restricteds.
This isnt a case like Caly or Miraidon who just clicks the funny button, or pre-nerf Zacian that got to ignore the generational gimmick while also not needing it itself. The potentially double setup turn (take a big enough hit, survive, transform, mega evolve, click the funny button) is a huge toll, expecially when we're talking of a 4x ice weak pokemon in metas where things like Calyrex-Ice and the aforementioned Miraidon and Zacian exist and compete with it (+ whatever bullshit GF cooks for gen 10).
And all of this is assuming it doesn't take a item slot. If it's like Mega Rayquaza yea sure, in the end it's a Mega with insane stats that gets to hold a item, but if it ends up needing a item in the main games (kinda like Necrozma needs the Z-crystal)

TLDR: AG 100% no doubt but I wouldn't already count it as broken when it comes to VGC until we see how it actually works in the mainline combat system.
Well, it is a Smogon forum and Smogon is an older metagame than VGC, so a lot of comments do look at Smogon first, indeed - there's a reason why Pokémon like Landorus-Therian and Mega Rayquaza are thought first for most people when they say "broken Pokémon" instead of Incineroar or Xerneas. Regardless, it's probably "less powerful" on VGC due to the double targeting and lack of a threatening presence turn 1, but the pay off is huge. Considering that it replaces Core Enforcer, and as such, probably keeps its targetting of both opponents, it hits harder than Primal Kyogre's full power Water Spout, while being faster, bulkier, and the move itself being more spammable both in terms of type and not having to worry about variable BP in general. It can also boost its Speed, although things like Scarf Miraidon actually being a bit more common here may also hurt it.
 
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