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SPOILERS! Legends ZA Data Dumps - Adding Info to OP

Germaniac said:
What about Pokemon Home?
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With L:A, it just displayed their non-ability states since you viewed them only in "L:A" mode. They might have had their abilities listed out internally? But it would still just be the same as in L:A. if that follow sthrough to here you'd be able to view Mega data but it wouldn't display any data and if you looked under the hood you'd just see the same defaults they have now (their base form's abilities).

Either way Pokemon Home's update is also just "2026". My guess is that is also Early 2026 and probably meant to coincide around Champions anyway.
 
So did anyone solve how we get ceratin types of Vivillion?

The Spewpa from the Museum evolved into a Marine pattern if I'm not mistaken.

Also, makes me wonder how the Rivals and Emma act in the DLC. And what new characters we will get there. And what levels should we expect.

About main game, it frustrates me when main bosses jump up and down if it comes to number of Pokemon used. E.g. Vinnie has 4 during his match fight and then we move back to 3 from Tarragon, 4 from Canari, 3 from Phillipe, 4 from Corbeau etc. Even in the lower ranks we jump from fighting 3 Pokemon to 4 and back to 3.
There's my main Team I want to manage:-P
 
While we talk about busted mega, I am curious about mega Falinks.

For me it could be really good with his signature move no retreat, with a 100 speed base, he has also a good coverage with some really good move.

It's funny how game freak really want this pokemon to be good and buff him in every generations:

In his debut generation he has one of the best signature ability that many revenge killer and every ghost type will dream of.

In gen 9 he gain some pretty good attack like body press and knock off.

And now he is the only gen 8 pokepon to have a mega.
 
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Some trivia about the datamined dlc dex:

SV (and in one case ZA) gave a lot of previously unique typings to new mons, but for many of those instances the originators of the types weren't in SV. There are also still a few cases from gen 8. With the DLC dex this will be the first time some of these mons can go head to head in a main series game (i.e., not Pokemon GO):

Marshadow vs. Annihilape*
Aegislash vs. Gholdengo*
Drampa vs. Cyclizar
Terrakion vs. Mega Barbaracle
Aurorous vs. Hisuian Avalugg*


Mons that still haven't had a chance to go toe-to-toe with their type-copying counterparts:

Diggersby vs. Ursaluna*
Nihilego vs. Glimmora
Nidos vs. Clodsire*
Alolan Raticate vs. Obstagoon*
Jellicent vs. Basculegion
Cradily vs. Ogerpon cornerstone

*Asterisk marks lines where both mons are available in Pokemon GO.

Might have missed some.

These two lists could of course grow depending on the types of the mega-evolutions being introduced. Although in base ZA we only got 4 type changes, of which only one was a previously unique type, I think Garchomp, Lucario, and Absol stand a decent chance of changing types. (Surely Garchomp won't be ground/dragon again in a game that already has OG mega garchomo and mega zygarde!!) Will be neat to see if any of them get previously unique types.
 
Gamefreak clearly demonstrated that it has no idea how to balance mons in reducing Mega Zygarde-Complete's BST boost to 70 but giving it a spammable 200 Base Power move. If Gamefreak had instead given Mega Zygarde-Complete a full 100 BST boost like every other Mega but reduced Nihil Light's Base Power to 140, like Z-Core Enforcer in Gen 7, it'd be a lot more balanced.

Just to give you an example of Mega Zygarde-Complete's power:

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Electric Terrain: 436-514 (107.9 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 474-558 (117.3 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Zygarde-Complete-Mega Nihil Light (200 Base Power) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 484-570 (119.8 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Grass Mew in Psychic Terrain: 513-604 (126.9 - 149.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk (Choice Scarf) Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Rain: 532-627 (131.6 - 155.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sun: 552-649 (136.6 - 160.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sun: 563-663 (139.3 - 164.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 612-721 (151.4 - 178.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 631-744 (156.1 - 184.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 654-771 (161.8 - 190.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP from Mew switching in) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Rain: 798-940 (197.5 - 232.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Basically, only the strongest of weather-boosted or terrain-boosted Choiced attacks outdamage Mega Zygarde-Complete's Nihil Light, and Mega Zygarde-Complete isn't choice-locked and can boost its speed with Dragon Dance. I believe it will be an easy boot to Anything Goes, and Mega Zygarde-Complete should be centralizing even in VGC due to how powerful Nihil Light is since the move is just outright broken and is the most broken offensive move of all time.
 
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Vibes are telling me that Nihil Light or Mega Zygarde in general will be like Legends Plate Arceus, where it is meant to be a deliberately overpowered legendary Pokemon for you to stomp the game with, but won't be transferable to the main series games / cart - at least not in the conventional way.

My guess is that we'll see a significant nerf to Nihil Light in Champions.
 
Magcargo said:
Vibes are telling me that Nihil Light or Mega Zygarde in general will be like Legends Plate Arceus, where it is meant to be a deliberately overpowered legendary Pokemon for you to stomp the game with, but won't be transferable to the main series games / cart - at least not in the conventional way.

My guess is that we'll see a significant nerf to Nihil Light in Champions.
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on the Mega Zygarde end I feel like if it was designed to be as OP as possible, they wouldn't have the extra hoops (must be in Complete form, must have the item held rather than just know a move like Rayquaza) and would have just made it have a full +100 BST. There's no need to worry about that kind of balance considerations if it's never going to leave the game.

Nihil Light I could see getting tweaked, though. Various L:A moves did. and I can see the logic of letting you mess with a literal nuke here but wanting a more standard kind of bomb in Champions-onward.
 
Avira said:
Gamefreak clearly demonstrated that it has no idea how to balance mons in reducing Mega Zygarde-Complete's BST boost to 70 but giving it a spammable 200 Base Power move. If Gamefreak had instead given Mega Zygarde-Complete a full 100 BST boost like every other Mega but reduced Nihil Light's Base Power to 140, like Z-Core Enforcer in Gen 7, it'd be a lot more balanced.

Just to give you an example of Mega Zygarde-Complete's power:

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Electric Terrain: 436-514 (107.9 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 474-558 (117.3 - 138.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Zygarde-Complete-Mega Nihil Light (200 Base Power) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 484-570 (119.8 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sun: 563-663 (139.3 - 164.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 612-721 (151.4 - 178.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 631-744 (156.1 - 184.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Sun: 654-771 (161.8 - 190.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Basically, only the strongest of weather-boosted Choiced attacks outdamage Mega Zygarde-Complete's Nihil Light, and Mega Zygarde-Complete isn't choice-locked and can boost its speed with Dragon Dance. I believe it will be an easy boot to Anything Goes, and Mega Zygarde-Complete should be centralizing even in VGC due to how powerful Nihil Light is since the move is just outright broken and is the most broken offensive move move of all time.
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Those are some cool calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Rampardos Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 481-567 (141 - 166.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 471-555 (138.1 - 162.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Mew: 471-555 (138.1 - 162.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Grass Mew in Psychic Terrain: 513-604 (150.4 - 177.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And as we all know, the only thing that matters in Pokemon is raw power. So these guys should also go to AG as well.

But for real, your calcs kind of prove my previous point.
Why would I use a Pokemon with multiple drawbacks when I can just use various other Ubers that deal just about as much damage but do that damage immediately and also have significant speed tiers? And said Pokemon can Tera too to either deal more damage or dodge a super effective hit (which non-Mega Zygarde Complete can do too)
It sure will see some usage in Ubers, it absolutely trashes Stall, but it’s really not that broken when you consider its flaws.
 
Cuddly said:
Those are some cool calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Rampardos Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 481-567 (141 - 166.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 471-555 (138.1 - 162.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Mew: 471-555 (138.1 - 162.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Grass Mew in Psychic Terrain: 513-604 (150.4 - 177.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And as we all know, the only thing that matters in Pokemon is raw power. So these guys should also go to AG as well.

But for real, your calcs kind of prove my previous point.
Why would I use a Pokemon with multiple drawbacks when I can just use various other Ubers that deal just about as much damage but do that damage immediately and also have significant speed tiers? And said Pokemon can Tera too to either deal more damage or dodge a super effective hit (which non-Mega Zygarde Complete can do too)
It sure will see some usage in Ubers, it absolutely trashes Stall, but it’s really not that broken when you consider its flaws.
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Your calcs are bad faith since you calced with 0 bulk Mew.

As I demonstrated with my calcs, Mega Zygarde-Complete's Nihil Light is much stronger than most of the attacks being thrown around in Ubers aside from the strongest of weather-boosted or terrain-boosted Choiced moves, which have a big drawback themselves being Choice-locked, half of which don't even exist in current gen OU, and unlike most of the mons I calced with or you calced with, Mega Zygarde-Complete is free to change moves and boost its speed since it's not Choice-locked all while having much better bulk than all of those mons listed. The multiple drawbacks you stated are being overexaggerated since really all Mega Zygarde-Complete needs is to turn into its Complete Form, which players have been doing successfully for a decade, and then it can freely Mega Evolve and use Nihil Light on the same turn since Core Enforcer transforms into Nihil Light upon Mega Evolving into Mega Zygarde-Complete, so it's not a Light That Burns The Sky situation.
 
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Small addition, but I noticed with the field moves, they seem to be flexible, using both type and a category
e.g. the brambles can be cleared by any sharpness move or fire, rocks seem to be water and moves that lower defense?
I haven't had time to test this, but there seems to be a pattern
 
Avira said:
Your calcs are bad faith since you calced with 0 bulk Mew.

As I demonstrated with my calcs, Mega Zygarde-Complete's Nihil Light is much stronger than most of the attacks being thrown around in Ubers aside from the strongest of weather-boosted or terrain-boosted Choiced moves, which have a big drawback themselves being Choice-locked, half of which don't even exist in current gen OU, and unlike most of the mons I calced with or you calced with, Mega Zygarde-Complete is free to change moves and boost its speed since it's not Choice-locked all while having much better bulk than all of those mons listed. The multiple drawbacks you stated are being overexaggerated since really all Mega Zygarde-Complete needs is to turn into its Complete Form, which players have been doing successfully for a decade, and then it can freely Mega Evolve and use Nihil Light on the same turn since Core Enforcer transforms into Nihil Light upon Mega Evolving into Mega Zygarde-Complete, so it's not a Light That Burns The Sky situation.
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The HP EVs on Mew don’t make that much of a difference, but that’s besides the point.

Mega Zygarde has multiple glaring flaws.

  1. The biggest issue is that Zygarde needs to be in its base for first, take at least 50% of damage to become Zygarde Complete, the following that turn Mega Evolve. That’s not far from impossible, but its at least 1 turn (realistically multiple turns) more that you’re doing little amounts of damage. Which because you’re now using Special sets, means it’s much easier for your opponent to just ignore you and set up. So unlike a regular Zygarde set, you don’t pressure your opponent into attacking you.
  2. 100 Speed isn’t that fast, especially when you’re boosting only 1 stage at a time. Depending on how you EV Mega Zygarde, you’re still being outsped by Scarfers and Weather Boosters. It also does not help with priority as well.
  3. Speaking, Mega Zygarde is still bulky, but its decrease in bulk is still really noticable. Physically all damage is effectively 25% stronger, which after powercreep is pretty massive.
  4. You do take up a Mega slot and can’t Tera. It’s a similar to how Mega Dragonite will have to face that issue too. You could very well use a different Mega that’s more immediately threatening and consistent, and non-Mega Zygarde that can Tera. You might not get super death ray, but with Tera you can easily get yourself multiple DDs or Coil boosts to sweep anyways (it’s also easier because of that pressure stuff I was talking about)
Those are some pretty major issues Mega Zygarde faces compared to other Ubers and even itself. The reward for managing to get Mega Zygarde is pretty big, but the work involved trying to make it work is bigger, and said reward is not much bigger than its peers anyways.
 
R_N said:
You know I kind of touched on it with Merciless but I feel like people can get a bit too...focused, when a pun is involved.
Like Huge Power in japanese has an extra reading that pertains to rabbits. And 2 rabbits get it. Ergo it's only on rabbits. But Mega Mawile gets it. Well, ergo it must also be considered a rabbit. Because only rabbits can get it.
But it also still. Has the other (likely meant to be primary) reading, which is why it has the effect it does? So I don't think they gave it to Mega Mawile because Mega Mawile looks like a rabbit so (wipes brows) phew dont need to make a third ability that does the same thing, I think they just gave it Huge Power because that was the design space they wanted to give it. See also, them giving Huge Power to some of the PWT weirdos (a karate guy and a giant lady).
So I think they probably do just give it Huge Power and call it a day. Considering its increased athleticism and tokuatsu references, "muscleman" fits it just as well in a more literal interpretation.


This is all will get swept aside because actually!! starmie is associated with space and space is where the moon is and the moon is where the mochi-making-rabbit association is from and thus (rest of message interrupted because i've melted)
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Ok I see your point but I'm still going with Pure Power just because I wanna headcanon the yoga stretching joke
 
Sultan said:
Is it really confirmed that Mega Evolutions can't terastallize or is it a National Dex assumption that is being treated as gospel for some reason?
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Strictly speaking nothing has been confirmed, but the the initial trailer for Champions showed Mega Vs Tera which would seem to position them as equals. And then the anime also has it as Mega vs Tera; this even got merch.


So like, anything is possible, but it seems like a relatively safe assumption that you won't be able to have Tera Fairy Dynamaxed Mega Zygarde in Champions.
 
Sultan said:
Is it really confirmed that Mega Evolutions can't terastallize or is it a National Dex assumption that is being treated as gospel for some reason?
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It's just an assumption, but it's a pretty safe assumption IMO because Rayquaza can't Mega Evolve if it's holding a Z Crystal. Having to choose between Mega Evolution or a Z Move seems like a pretty good sign that that we shouldn't expect a Pokemon with a Mega Stone or Z Crystal to be able to Dynamax or Terastallize.
 
CTNC said:
It's just an assumption, but it's a pretty safe assumption IMO because Rayquaza can't Mega Evolve if it's holding a Z Crystal. Having to choose between Mega Evolution or a Z Move seems like a pretty good sign that that we shouldn't expect a Pokemon with a Mega Stone or Z Crystal to be able to Dynamax or Terastallize.
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As well, a mon that Transforms into a Mega is unable to use a Z-move despite Z-moves otherwise working fine with Transform. Heck, there's an argument that preventing even the impression of Mega and Z-move overlap is why using a Z-move dispels Illusion.
 
Sultan said:
Is it really confirmed that Mega Evolutions can't terastallize or is it a National Dex assumption that is being treated as gospel for some reason?
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It's an assumption based on two facts from Gen 7. 1) If a Pokémon holding a Z-crystal transforms into a Mega it cannot use the Z-move while transformed. 2) The fact that Rayquaza cannot Mega Evolve while holding a Z-crystal.
Avira said:
Your calcs are bad faith since you calced with 0 bulk Mew.
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Redid his calcs with max HP Mew:
252+ Atk Choice Band Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 481-567 (119 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 471-555 (116.5 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 708-834 (175.2 - 206.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Psychic Terrain: 256-302 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The only one that actually meaningfully changes is Hoopa
 
I know it's usually futile to suggest this, but maybe we try to not clog up an orange islands subforum thread with posts full of theorymoning calcs about a move and/or mega that might get rebalanced when they get released in an actual competitive game. For all we know the current calcs will end up being as useful as all the theorymoning about Legend Plate Arceus.
 
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