Confusion isn't common, so it's not much different, besides confusion it's just like Leftovers or Black Sludge on Weezing.
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- Thread starter The_Rider
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Naww really? I know that. -.-
What's the harm in changing it to Flame Orb if you can take less damage, while Toxic Orb is doing the EXACT same thing, except making you take more damage from confusion? Who cares if it's not used much? It's used at all, and that's what matters. :/
Thanks, i've been continuing to use it, and it screws up so many pokemon... basically anything that has to change moves is set-up fodder. After encoring, you can wish-pass to a resist.
And sure, I'll try flame orb, sounds interesting.
Are you sure? I could have sworn that magic guard stopped confusion recoil (at least on shoddy).
this is a pretty good lead im going to use on my team i will post soon.
celebi@ Life orb
236 hp 164 sp. atk 110 def
bold
grass knot
thunder wave
recover
Hidden power [ice]
Slays the dragons! great lead as it 2hkos gyra I think but metalkid is not working for me it died after these calcs.
HP ICE
garchomp 4 sp. def: 100-120% easy pickings
mence: do i have to?
dragonite 4 hp: 100-112%
The top numbers arent exact but the point is ohkos all ou dragons. life orb adamant garchomp can only manage a measly 30-48% on it without sd so it can come in and kill it. as a lead t-wave stuff, grass knot dos, recover off life orb damage. works well.
Comments?
celebi@ Life orb
236 hp 164 sp. atk 110 def
bold
grass knot
thunder wave
recover
Hidden power [ice]
Slays the dragons! great lead as it 2hkos gyra I think but metalkid is not working for me it died after these calcs.
HP ICE
garchomp 4 sp. def: 100-120% easy pickings
mence: do i have to?
dragonite 4 hp: 100-112%
The top numbers arent exact but the point is ohkos all ou dragons. life orb adamant garchomp can only manage a measly 30-48% on it without sd so it can come in and kill it. as a lead t-wave stuff, grass knot dos, recover off life orb damage. works well.
Comments?
All of your calculations are so very wrong.
252 Atk CB Thunderpunch vs max/max Skarm = 32.04% - 37.72%
252 Atk CB Leaf Blade vs max/max Bliss = 42.30% - 49.72%
252 Atk Leaf Blade vs max/max Hippowdon = 51.43% - 60.71%
252 Atk CB Leaf Blade vs 40/0 Weavile = 74.23% - 87.29%
I'd also max the speed since it's pretty much the only reason to use Sceptile. Thunderpunch is completely useless except for Gyarados too so I'd probably drop that too. CB sceptile is in the analysis too unless I'm mistaken.
252 Atk CB Thunderpunch vs max/max Skarm = 32.04% - 37.72%
252 Atk CB Leaf Blade vs max/max Bliss = 42.30% - 49.72%
252 Atk Leaf Blade vs max/max Hippowdon = 51.43% - 60.71%
252 Atk CB Leaf Blade vs 40/0 Weavile = 74.23% - 87.29%
I'd also max the speed since it's pretty much the only reason to use Sceptile. Thunderpunch is completely useless except for Gyarados too so I'd probably drop that too. CB sceptile is in the analysis too unless I'm mistaken.
Actually, it's a little worse than that in some of those cases. (MetalKid's errors haven't been fixed yet, apparently.)
252 Atk CB Thunderpunch vs max/max Skarm = 31.74% - 37.72%
252 Atk CB Leaf Blade vs max/max Bliss = 42.02% - 49.58%
252 Atk Leaf Blade vs max/max Hippowdon = 50.48% - 60%
252 Atk CB Leaf Blade vs 40/0 Weavile = 80.76% - 95.19% >>not sure where the two of us are differing here
(Well, at least a Weavile switching in would always be OHKO'd with Stealth Rock.)
And yes, there is a CB Sceptile in the Sceptile analysis with pretty much that exact combination of moves (except Crunch is optional in the fourth slot).
I've used this before... so I'm reiterating the threat of Mamo-weak!
Mamoswine @ Expert Belt / NevermeltIce
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Naughty
EVs: 60 Attack / 196 Speed / 252 Special Attack
*Earthquake
*Ice Shard
*Ice Beam
*Hidden Power [Electric]
Only mamo I will ever use. This thing will surprise kill the hell out of people, mainly because it isn't banded, and has no recoil, so people may say WTF when their heatran comes in on Ice shard and gets EQed to oblivion. Ice Beam is delicious STAB and scores a likely 2HKO with Stealth Rock on weezing and skarm (HP Electric will do more though). HP Electric OHKOs Gyara with Stealth Rock, and Ice Shard still beats up the dragons.
Mamoswine @ Expert Belt / NevermeltIce
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Naughty
EVs: 60 Attack / 196 Speed / 252 Special Attack
*Earthquake
*Ice Shard
*Ice Beam
*Hidden Power [Electric]
Only mamo I will ever use. This thing will surprise kill the hell out of people, mainly because it isn't banded, and has no recoil, so people may say WTF when their heatran comes in on Ice shard and gets EQed to oblivion. Ice Beam is delicious STAB and scores a likely 2HKO with Stealth Rock on weezing and skarm (HP Electric will do more though). HP Electric OHKOs Gyara with Stealth Rock, and Ice Shard still beats up the dragons.
I hope you didn't run your calculations with an extra 1.5x modifier for no explicable reason, because that's what it looks like to me.
Lee and CardsOfTheHeart's calcs look far more plausible.
You're right I inputted the data with the Attack stat after the Choice Band boosted its attack to 403. Physical Scepy is shit.
Sorry guys.
Do you set the item as Choice Band as well as already factoring in the Choice boost in the attack stat?
EDIT: You beat me to it.
EDIT: You beat me to it.
I'm not exactly sure if this is new or innovative, or really anything for that matter, but here is a support Roserade that I thought might be effective.
Roserade@Leftovers
252 HP/6 Sp. Attack/252 Speed
Natural Cure
Timid
-Substitute
-Sleep Powder
-Toxic Spikes
-Energy Ball/Grass Move of Choice
Stats:324 HP/x Attack/146 Defense/306 Speed/287 Sp. Attack/246 Sp. Defense
This set works similar to Breloom. Switch into something slower, Substitute to scout, put the opponent to sleep with Powder, and then support the team with Toxic Spikes. Energy Ball or a grass move of choice is sort of filler. Leaf Storm could also work but means you are a bit vulnerable after the first big hit or two. Leech Seed would be great but no attack is generally a bad idea especially with Taunt.
Roserade@Leftovers
252 HP/6 Sp. Attack/252 Speed
Natural Cure
Timid
-Substitute
-Sleep Powder
-Toxic Spikes
-Energy Ball/Grass Move of Choice
Stats:324 HP/x Attack/146 Defense/306 Speed/287 Sp. Attack/246 Sp. Defense
This set works similar to Breloom. Switch into something slower, Substitute to scout, put the opponent to sleep with Powder, and then support the team with Toxic Spikes. Energy Ball or a grass move of choice is sort of filler. Leaf Storm could also work but means you are a bit vulnerable after the first big hit or two. Leech Seed would be great but no attack is generally a bad idea especially with Taunt.
Thanks for the catch. It is still a viable set with Toxic Spikes as nothing likes to get severely posioned. Heracross may appreciate the guts boost but it'll be gone in no time after the compounding damage and some priority moves.
Looks like Shoddy in doing a little clean-up with the combos.
Ever since this thread about Torment, I've been trying to come up with some sets that could utilize it effectively. I eventually came up with this Cloyster set.
Torment Cloyster
• Clamp
• Protect
• Torment
• Toxic Spikes
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 6 Speed
Near the beginning of the match, it should be swicthing in and out while setting up two layers of Toxic Spikes. Once the spikes are out, it can begin stalling effectively. Since Cloyster walls certain kinds of hits very well and others very poorly, it can prompt a few switches. The idea is to hit a Pokémon switching in with Torment. When they hit Cloyster with the move that would damage it the most, it uses Protect. It requires good prediction, but their health is being whittled away while they try to get an attack through Torment and Protect. Clamp prevents opponents with recovery moves from switching in and out and resetting the Toxic damage.
I've tried the set a bit on PBR Wi-Fi and it works pretty well. At best, it goes something like this:
Cloyster uses Torment during a switch-in or setup move.
Opposing Pokémon takes first bit of toxic damage.
Cloyster uses Protect during big attack.
Opposing Pokémon takes second bit of toxic.
Cloyster uses Clamp while opposing Pokémon hits it with a secondary move or sets up again.
Opposing Pokémon takes third bit of toxic and hopefully some Clamp damage.
Opponent tries to outpredict me by not using its big attack this round. Uses a secondary attack or sets up again.
Cloyster uses Clamp again if it missed or if it does any appreciable damage to the opponent. Otherwise it wastes a turn in some fashion.
Opponent takes fourth turn of toxic and Clamp damage
Cloyster uses Protect while opponent attacks with big attack.
Opponent takes fifth turn of Toxic and is KO'd unless it had Leftovers or has been recovering health in some way. If it had Leftovers, it's KO'd next turn. Cloyster can switch out on the turn that the opponent loses the last of its health if desired.
In addition to walling most physical attacks well, it can also take Surfs and Ice Beams thanks to its EVs in SpDefense. Also, at 35 power, Clamp actually takes a fair clip of damage off of frail Fire-types, for what that's worth. Shell Armor is a big help, preventing a nasty crit from messing up your stall.
It does, of course, have weaknesses. Opposing Poison-types that don't fly or levitate remove the Toxic Spikes. Flying, levitating, and Steel-type opponents don't get poisoned at all. Finally, there are Pokémon that have more than one move that can severely damage Cloyster. So this Cloyster isn't meant to sweep teams. I have found it to be an effective addition to a stalling team, however. What tier you use it in is up to you; it depends on how brave you are.
If another Pokémon on your team can put down Toxic Spikes, that move can be replaced with Toxic, Rapid Spin, Ice Beam, Surf, Barrier, or Explosion. Of course, if something else can put down Toxic Spikes, you could use another Pokémon for this same set (like a Dusknoir or Steelix with Bind, for example).
I apologize for the lengthy post. Questions, comments, and criticisms are appreciated.
Torment Cloyster
• Clamp
• Protect
• Torment
• Toxic Spikes
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 6 Speed
Near the beginning of the match, it should be swicthing in and out while setting up two layers of Toxic Spikes. Once the spikes are out, it can begin stalling effectively. Since Cloyster walls certain kinds of hits very well and others very poorly, it can prompt a few switches. The idea is to hit a Pokémon switching in with Torment. When they hit Cloyster with the move that would damage it the most, it uses Protect. It requires good prediction, but their health is being whittled away while they try to get an attack through Torment and Protect. Clamp prevents opponents with recovery moves from switching in and out and resetting the Toxic damage.
I've tried the set a bit on PBR Wi-Fi and it works pretty well. At best, it goes something like this:
Cloyster uses Torment during a switch-in or setup move.
Opposing Pokémon takes first bit of toxic damage.
Cloyster uses Protect during big attack.
Opposing Pokémon takes second bit of toxic.
Cloyster uses Clamp while opposing Pokémon hits it with a secondary move or sets up again.
Opposing Pokémon takes third bit of toxic and hopefully some Clamp damage.
Opponent tries to outpredict me by not using its big attack this round. Uses a secondary attack or sets up again.
Cloyster uses Clamp again if it missed or if it does any appreciable damage to the opponent. Otherwise it wastes a turn in some fashion.
Opponent takes fourth turn of toxic and Clamp damage
Cloyster uses Protect while opponent attacks with big attack.
Opponent takes fifth turn of Toxic and is KO'd unless it had Leftovers or has been recovering health in some way. If it had Leftovers, it's KO'd next turn. Cloyster can switch out on the turn that the opponent loses the last of its health if desired.
In addition to walling most physical attacks well, it can also take Surfs and Ice Beams thanks to its EVs in SpDefense. Also, at 35 power, Clamp actually takes a fair clip of damage off of frail Fire-types, for what that's worth. Shell Armor is a big help, preventing a nasty crit from messing up your stall.
It does, of course, have weaknesses. Opposing Poison-types that don't fly or levitate remove the Toxic Spikes. Flying, levitating, and Steel-type opponents don't get poisoned at all. Finally, there are Pokémon that have more than one move that can severely damage Cloyster. So this Cloyster isn't meant to sweep teams. I have found it to be an effective addition to a stalling team, however. What tier you use it in is up to you; it depends on how brave you are.
If another Pokémon on your team can put down Toxic Spikes, that move can be replaced with Toxic, Rapid Spin, Ice Beam, Surf, Barrier, or Explosion. Of course, if something else can put down Toxic Spikes, you could use another Pokémon for this same set (like a Dusknoir or Steelix with Bind, for example).
I apologize for the lengthy post. Questions, comments, and criticisms are appreciated.
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