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[on site] The guide to D/P Uber Battling
- Thread starter Jibaku
- Start date
Tyranitar makes a great lead. If they have something like Lati@s as their lead, you get to trap it for free with Pursuit. Lati@s are common leads thanks to Kyogre being so popular. If they lead Kyogre or Groudon, sure, you have to switch out, but at least you've claimed the weather.
I think that you're underestimating the popularity of groudon and kyogre to some degree. Sure, you get the lati twins, but they both (especially CM kyogre/SD groudon, not as common, but w/e) find easy setup on tyranitar.
A great addition to the lead list would be choice specs roserade. With Grass Knot/HP Ice/Shadow Ball/Sleep Powder, roserade provides invaluable status support and can set the stage for your weather to setup. I find this doesn't actually do so well against Dialga (HP Ice is a 3HKO, at best), but that's why there's sleep powder. This is actually great for something like tyranitar, obi. ;x
I actually don't mind the Tyranitar vs. Kyogre match-up. When you accept that you'll never be able to beat all leads, you can accept that you may have to switch without doing anything sometimes. In the case of Kyogre, Tyranitar is slower, so Kyogre loses its weather. This means Surf and Water Spout have less power, Thunder has its normal accuracy, etc. If it stays in, you can counter it easier, you see right away whether it has Leftovers (or Life Orb), and based on the damage it does to your counter, you know what kind of set it's using. If it switches as you switch, then you've basically just created a new match up. You have a slight advantage because your team is planned with Sand Stream occasionally being in effect, whereas their team could reasonably be planned with rain pretty much always active. This means you don't have to worry about their Surfs or Thunders as much.
If they lead a Pokemon that Tyranitar beats, you have an immediate huge advantage. If they lead a Pokemon Tyranitar doesn't beat, you have an easy switch out of one of the most common leads.
Groudon is a slightly worse story because it doesn't rely on the weather as much, but I don't find Groudon to be particularly threatening in the early-game.
If they lead a Pokemon that Tyranitar beats, you have an immediate huge advantage. If they lead a Pokemon Tyranitar doesn't beat, you have an easy switch out of one of the most common leads.
Groudon is a slightly worse story because it doesn't rely on the weather as much, but I don't find Groudon to be particularly threatening in the early-game.
I wonder what kind of damage a scarfed/spec'd waterspout would do to a 252/252 neutral tyranitar. I imagine that you take quite a hit, but would you be there to put a hit back in?
I think the switch would be pretty much immediate (maybe on both sides). And I feel like tyranitar would need a tad to much support to make a helpful lead. I can imagine that the advantage would be immesurable. Getting rid of a lati@s early on could be gamebreaking.
I need to go research my argument.
Excellent guide! Ubers are much more fun IMO. Though, for leads lately I had fun using Yanmega to LOL at mewtwo, and darkrai, and somewhat Kyogre. Scarfgar is also a terror in ubers, using thunder to maim Kyogre, HP Ice revenge kills ray (and he is immune to ESpeed... Wonderful), Focus Blast nails Dialga and can finish off an Arceus (again, no extremespeed) and Shadow Ball can rip through Psychics at the end.
And let's not forget about my piece about Kingdra. It is the best mixed sweeper in ubers. In the guide you mentioned a Choice Specs, but it fairs better with Life Orb, and has permanant rain with our favorite whale. It can clean easily in ubers.
And let's not forget about my piece about Kingdra. It is the best mixed sweeper in ubers. In the guide you mentioned a Choice Specs, but it fairs better with Life Orb, and has permanant rain with our favorite whale. It can clean easily in ubers.
Most starting Mewtwo will be scarfed and will OHKO Yanmega so i dont see Yanmega doing much of anything against most leads unless it's sashed as it will need to get two Speed Boosts to outspeed Mewtwo.
Also as far as Gengar is concerned in Ubers the only thing it has over Darkrai is it's immunity to Rayquaza's and Arceus' Extremespeed and Groudon's Earthquake. Darkrai has higher overall stats as well and gets Ice Beam over Gengar's HP Ice. So I dont see much for Gengar here either but regardless it is something that can work in Ubers ans should be added to the guide.
Regarding Kingdra I wouldnt say it's the best Mix sweeper as Mewtwo, Deoxys-F, Darkrai and Dialga all outclass it as far as i'm concerned. If anything i'd probaly change the word Choice Specs to Life Orb and mention something about it being able to mix sweep due to Waterfall.
It's clearly an underrated threat though. Being able to outrun and OHKO every dragon in the game except Rayquaza and his damn air lock counts for something. For dialgas switching in to surf, DM kills them the next turn... Mewtwo, Deoxys-F, and Darkrai pack more power, but with the rain on its side, Kingdra outspeeds and actually OHKOs all three of them with Surf (Mewtwo takes 82% minimum with 40HP Evs, so with stealth rock there is a good chance) and a Mild nature, and like I said has the ability to destroy all the dragons as well, and can 2HKO Lugia, Deoxys-D, and Blissey, which is more than a lot of pokemon can do. If Garchomp gets a mention, no doubt Kingdra does as well as it does the same thing as Chomp and Palkia, and doesn't need a choice item to do it.
Yes Kingdra is underrated but i did not compare Mewtwo, Darkrai etc as if they were facing it. I simply said that they are better Mix Sweepers.
Also the most common Dialga set which is the Resttalker will survive a Surf and a Draco Meteor all the time, however it does get some merit for taking out the sets with no Special Defence investment
Also the most common Dialga set which is the Resttalker will survive a Surf and a Draco Meteor all the time, however it does get some merit for taking out the sets with no Special Defence investment
For Convenience.
Garchomp needs to be moved from the "Non Uber Pokemon in Uber" section to the "The Uber sweepers" section and added to the list of Ubers at the top now that it is Uber.
Also on site Deoxys-S is not listed in the list at the top but it is in the "Other Ubers" section.
Garchomp needs to be moved from the "Non Uber Pokemon in Uber" section to the "The Uber sweepers" section and added to the list of Ubers at the top now that it is Uber.
Also on site Deoxys-S is not listed in the list at the top but it is in the "Other Ubers" section.