Metagame RU Metagame Discussion Thread [April 2026 Shifts, Farewell Talonflame and Mew :( ](#95)

[MrAldo]

Sound argument BUT, that discussion has been had and there is no action to take on tera blast unless OU wants to do something about it cause breaking transitivity is bad. May as well get rid of porygon-z and replace it with Meloetta or something

So many offensive mons on this tier are absurdly degenerate, like when you load normal teams it is fine to play, but then the absolute stinky cheesy teams that plague the tier at the moment is just dreadful. Different types of HO, Grassy Terrain, etc. UGH. Tier is a coinflip and dont have anything really positive to share which is a shame but it is how it is.

Dont see anything worth testing besides maybe Hydreigon out of morbid curiosity, doesnt really force many solutions outside of an armarouge check (which is fine I guess), everything else is just adding more gasoline to an already existing wildfire.


Will come back with less depressing news next time, hopefully

 

[Elec-ant1234]

May as well get rid of porygon-z and replace it with Meloetta or something

You know... that's not a half-bad idea...

 

[Rarelyme]

Alright so I wanted to play a good amount before taking things more slowly with RUPL season and I'm here to share my humble view of this "new" meta.
The tier feels very polarized and people seem to give up more and more on building balanced archetypes which ends up in an overly large amount of hyper offenses and stall being used. This is probably a symptom of gen 9 as a whole but we can't deny that balance in RU has lost many of its options which makes it arguably more of a hassle to build but also more difficult to pilot. My aim here is to present some options that I think are overlooked and can help when using balanced and bulky offense teams.

Toxic Spikes
Every RU builder knows Tspikes are a reliable way to deal with HO teams and can also be an effective way to pressure stall. But despite this, very few teams actually use them. The reason for this is, in my opinion, the pool of Pokemon that can use the move. Most of them put a strain on the builder because they would rather use another hazard or they lead the teams towards the extremes I talked about above. For instance, Gligar, Mew or Forretress would rather take the slot of the classic hazard setter so as to not force the team to feature another one, Quagsire is too frail to act as a physical wall on its own in a team which leads to very fat teams... In my opinion, the best Toxic Spikes setter available to us right now is Tentacruel.


Tentacruel is a great option for BO to balanced teams because it offers a ton of support like removal, pivot or Knock Off while being a key part of a gameplan against HO and Stall. I think it has never fit the meta as well as today because it answers other problems non-polar archetypes run into at the moment. Removal has always been an issue in RU and Tentacruel is honestly a fine option. It is able to spin in the face of some common setters like Chesnaught, Empoleon or Jirachi while standing its ground against HO leads such as Lycanroc and Kleavor. Pivot has also always been a problem of mine in SV since we don't have many pivot options and most of them oftentimes need to use another move instead of turn (Noivern, Talonflame, Jirachi...) Something RU certainly does well is having effective wallbreakers, and I think Tentacruel is a great pairing for them. Since it can also soft check a surprising amount of our top tier Pokemon (like Mienshao for instance), it fits well in dynamic BO cores; my personal favorite at the moment is Tentacruel/Jirachi/Noivern but I also played with Tentacruel/Hoodra (or Regi)/Chesnaught, Tentacruel/Umbreon and some others that I'm not completely satisfied with for the moment.

I don't want to spend too much time talking about Tentacruel but I hope this is enough to at least make you want to test it.


As I said previously, removal is a tough challenge for any RU builder and using Noivern or Talonflame for it is so incredibly unsatisfying that I tried other options. Tentacruel is of course one that I felt confident enough to talk about here, the other I think could deserve more attention is Maushold.


We all know this guy as the HO goon that forces you to have a Rocky Helmet mon in every team. I went through a bunch or replays and was pretty surprised to not see it even in BO teams, so I tried to lab with it to see if it could become more than a HO bot and spoiler alert, I think it definitely can be. Maushold, like Tentacruel, greatly improves the bulkier teams' matchup against HO since against frail Pokemon it basically is a kill button. Because it puts so much pressure, it very often forces switches which let it use Tidy Up rather easily and therefore serve as a good removal. I would note however that Maushold can't easily switch in as you probably know, so using it in a team that is weak to hazards in the first place is probably not a good idea. You can improve this by using Encore or VoltTurn cores though. Maushold can also be part of the aforementioned cores itself thanks to U-Turn and in general can bring a lot of support thanks to its 4th slot (Encore, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Super Fang). The mouse pairs extremely well with meta defining Pokemon as well such as Krookodile and Mienshao which are in my opinion its best partners.


Now for less interesting inputs about the meta:
The tier has seen a resurgence of special attackers in offensive teams (Porygon-Z, Mew, Tornadus, Toxtricity...) which have made some Pokemon better. Magnezone is terribly underrated in my opinion, it has a great typing, unique offensive pressure, good pivot and is a Steel-type, use that guy. Muk-A is also a bit forgotten but is a tremendous progress maker in every game.
IronPress sets are very good in the current meta since physical pressure is still prominent in the tier. You should try IronPress Slowbro it is quite refreshing while being almost as good as the CM set. Bronzong is also a nice option and people should think about it more.
Priority moves are extremely good (they pair very well with Tspikes) and are a viable form a speed control in bulkier archetypes.
I don't think this pokemon is broken, people need time to adapt but I think we have a lot of options to deal with Porygon-Z, namely priority moves since it's so frail, faster threats since it's quite slow and Tera since the mechanic does work both ways right.
Get this mon out of D rank.
​

 

[Feliburn]

Alright so I wanted to play a good amount before taking things more slowly with RUPL season and I'm here to share my humble view of this "new" meta.
The tier feels very polarized and people seem to give up more and more on building balanced archetypes which ends up in an overly large amount of hyper offenses and stall being used. This is probably a symptom of gen 9 as a whole but we can't deny that balance in RU has lost many of its options which makes it arguably more of a hassle to build but also more difficult to pilot. My aim here is to present some options that I think are overlooked and can help when using balanced and bulky offense teams.

Toxic Spikes
Every RU builder knows Tspikes are a reliable way to deal with HO teams and can also be an effective way to pressure stall. But despite this, very few teams actually use them. The reason for this is, in my opinion, the pool of Pokemon that can use the move. Most of them put a strain on the builder because they would rather use another hazard or they lead the teams towards the extremes I talked about above. For instance, Gligar, Mew or Forretress would rather take the slot of the classic hazard setter so as to not force the team to feature another one, Quagsire is too frail to act as a physical wall on its own in a team which leads to very fat teams... In my opinion, the best Toxic Spikes setter available to us right now is Tentacruel.


Tentacruel is a great option for BO to balanced teams because it offers a ton of support like removal, pivot or Knock Off while being a key part of a gameplan against HO and Stall. I think it has never fit the meta as well as today because it answers other problems non-polar archetypes run into at the moment. Removal has always been an issue in RU and Tentacruel is honestly a fine option. It is able to spin in the face of some common setters like Chesnaught, Empoleon or Jirachi while standing its ground against HO leads such as Lycanroc and Kleavor. Pivot has also always been a problem of mine in SV since we don't have many pivot options and most of them oftentimes need to use another move instead of turn (Noivern, Talonflame, Jirachi...) Something RU certainly does well is having effective wallbreakers, and I think Tentacruel is a great pairing for them. Since it can also soft check a surprising amount of our top tier Pokemon (like Mienshao for instance), it fits well in dynamic BO cores; my personal favorite at the moment is Tentacruel/Jirachi/Noivern but I also played with Tentacruel/Hoodra (or Regi)/Chesnaught, Tentacruel/Umbreon and some others that I'm not completely satisfied with for the moment.

I don't want to spend too much time talking about Tentacruel but I hope this is enough to at least make you want to test it.


As I said previously, removal is a tough challenge for any RU builder and using Noivern or Talonflame for it is so incredibly unsatisfying that I tried other options. Tentacruel is of course one that I felt confident enough to talk about here, the other I think could deserve more attention is Maushold.


We all know this guy as the HO goon that forces you to have a Rocky Helmet mon in every team. I went through a bunch or replays and was pretty surprised to not see it even in BO teams, so I tried to lab with it to see if it could become more than a HO bot and spoiler alert, I think it definitely can be. Maushold, like Tentacruel, greatly improves the bulkier teams' matchup against HO since against frail Pokemon it basically is a kill button. Because it puts so much pressure, it very often forces switches which let it use Tidy Up rather easily and therefore serve as a good removal. I would note however that Maushold can't easily switch in as you probably know, so using it in a team that is weak to hazards in the first place is probably not a good idea. You can improve this by using Encore or VoltTurn cores though. Maushold can also be part of the aforementioned cores itself thanks to U-Turn and in general can bring a lot of support thanks to its 4th slot (Encore, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Super Fang). The mouse pairs extremely well with meta defining Pokemon as well such as Krookodile and Mienshao which are in my opinion its best partners.


Now for less interesting inputs about the meta:
The tier has seen a resurgence of special attackers in offensive teams (Porygon-Z, Mew, Tornadus, Toxtricity...) which have made some Pokemon better. Magnezone is terribly underrated in my opinion, it has a great typing, unique offensive pressure, good pivot and is a Steel-type, use that guy. Muk-A is also a bit forgotten but is a tremendous progress maker in every game.
IronPress sets are very good in the current meta since physical pressure is still prominent in the tier. You should try IronPress Slowbro it is quite refreshing while being almost as good as the CM set. Bronzong is also a nice option and people should think about it more.
Priority moves are extremely good (they pair very well with Tspikes) and are a viable form a speed control in bulkier archetypes.
I don't think this pokemon is broken, people need time to adapt but I think we have a lot of options to deal with Porygon-Z, namely priority moves since it's so frail, faster threats since it's quite slow and Tera since the mechanic does work both ways right.
Get this mon out of D rank.
​

I agree with tspikes being really good, I have always been a big advocate of tspikes as an anti HO measure when building for it in SCL, but I wouldn't call Tentacruel our best setter. I do like it a lot as a setter, and Franklin experimented with it and used it vs me in tests and it looked good.

However, and this might be outdated info since it was when we had Hippo meta, the one tspike setter I used every single time was always scarf Gengar.


Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Trick
- Toxic Spikes

I feel like this was the perfect way to include tspikes on a team without sacrificing much, as Gengar's coverage moves aren't really game changing unless you heavily rely on a lure to hit Cyclizar. Most of the time you use this set for the almost uncontested speed control of the game, but you can also get tspikes up easily, and vs HO you can almost always lead with gengar and trade tspikes for rocks, and if they lead with a setter, you threaten with the Trick. I probably spammed this gengar set in the last couple of months of last year because it just did what it needed, and rarely ever felt awkward building with, as we all know Tentacruel can feel weird.

I was more mindful when using tspikes outside of choice scarf, as non scarf you usually do a better job with like Wisp + Hex or some tera NP stuff, you can probably still use it but idk it never appealed to me.

 

[fluff!!]

Why Re-testing Hydreigon Would Be A Good Thing, Actually
​

1. It really shakes things up
Are you tired of Slowbro? Are Armarouge and Bisharp dumb as bricks? Can't switch into Krookodile? Want your attackers to not get kneecapped by HO and all adjacent cheese (Rain/Sun)? Well do I have the solution for you. Hydreigon also pretty handily tanks Shadow Balls from Scarf Gengar so you don't have to play bike when you realise that actually your team folds to Ghosts. Mimikyu is a pain in the butt but Hydreigon is faster and resists Shadow Sneak and everyone hates Mimikyu so that's a good thing. HO goons such as Torterra, Porygon-Z, Armarouge, Basculegion and others are all outsped and take either a huge chunk or are outright OHKOed, Hydreigon can tank any hit too, and it's immune to Webs so it makes the archetype much less oppressive than it is now (Especially once Talonflame rises to UU!). Hydreigon can switch into mono attacking cringe Suicune sets, outboost with NP and break through it too.

2. All my homies hate hazards
With Talonflame most likely leaving us in a month courtesy of evil UU ladder, hazards will be quite unfun to deal with. What do we need then? Easy, a top 1 mon that is resilient to them. Hydreigon can set Rocks itself, but don't run rocks on hydreigon come on what are you doing, just click dark pulse

3. Defensive utility? In my RU?
One of the reasons RU is cringe is because attackers are just dumb clickers that provide no defensive utility but still hit way too hard. With Hydreigon, you finally get a way to switch into attackers without the out being Blissey or something equally uninteresting and UNCOOL. The top 1 mon being an offensive presence that also brings defensive utility will be a breath of fresh air and allow for new player to player interactions at once.

4. It's balanced! source: trust me bro
Does Hydreigon hit too hard and has too many ins? Well, one could argue this. However, I believe its counterplay wouldn't be too different from something like Porygon-Z (who is not broken btw). You still get outsped and demolished by Mienshao and Terrakion who should be played in 100% of teams because the diversity in this tier for physical attackers is non existent outside of HO goons so you'll have a Hydreigon answer right there and then every time without thinking about it. If you want to tank Hydreigon, you always have defensive staples like Blissey, Muk-A, Wo-Chien, Umbreon, Hoodra, Klefki, or Registeel to tank a few hits and retaliate back or something idk. Taunt and NP sets sound scary at first, but the mons I cited don't really care about those (except Umbreon) since they can either directly retaliate (Body Press Registeel, Muk-A in general, hoodra) or be Blissey.

5. It actually diversifies the tier
COOL niche options like Pawmot, Kilowattrel, Tornadus, Lycanroc-D, Raikou, and many others, can also play around Hydreigon or straight up beat it to varying degrees, shooting creativity and diversity levels through the roof.

6. It's fucking rad
You know what RU needs? A cool mon being the best in the tier, and not bozo nerd number one Slowbro over there with absolutely 0 cool things about it. Hydreigon however, now that's a mon that will bring players in because everyone loves Hydreigon. People will also love unviable trash like Scale Shot Snarl Throat Spray so they (and I) can enjoy that. This will finally bring more players to the tier, something the tier absolutely needs.

B-But tournaments are happening!
Just like all other 364 days of the year. Also I don't play in tournaments and nor does ladder so that's not my (our) problem lololol

B-But RU would become the Hydreigon tier!
Name a single person who would be against that.

Free Hydreigon at once and make RU fun again.​

 

[Canard]

Why Re-testing Hydreigon Would Be A Good Thing, Actually
​

1. It really shakes things up
Are you tired of Slowbro? Are Armarouge and Bisharp dumb as bricks? Can't switch into Krookodile? Want your attackers to not get kneecapped by HO and all adjacent cheese (Rain/Sun)? Well do I have the solution for you. Hydreigon also pretty handily tanks Shadow Balls from Scarf Gengar so you don't have to play bike when you realise that actually your team folds to Ghosts. Mimikyu is a pain in the butt but Hydreigon is faster and resists Shadow Sneak and everyone hates Mimikyu so that's a good thing. HO goons such as Torterra, Porygon-Z, Armarouge, Basculegion and others are all outsped and take either a huge chunk or are outright OHKOed, Hydreigon can tank any hit too, and it's immune to Webs so it makes the archetype much less oppressive than it is now (Especially once Talonflame rises to UU!). Hydreigon can switch into mono attacking cringe Suicune sets, outboost with NP and break through it too.

2. All my homies hate hazards
With Talonflame most likely leaving us in a month courtesy of evil UU ladder, hazards will be quite unfun to deal with. What do we need then? Easy, a top 1 mon that is resilient to them. Hydreigon can set Rocks itself, but don't run rocks on hydreigon come on what are you doing, just click dark pulse

3. Defensive utility? In my RU?
One of the reasons RU is cringe is because attackers are just dumb clickers that provide no defensive utility but still hit way too hard. With Hydreigon, you finally get a way to switch into attackers without the out being Blissey or something equally uninteresting and UNCOOL. The top 1 mon being an offensive presence that also brings defensive utility will be a breath of fresh air and allow for new player to player interactions at once.

4. It's balanced! source: trust me bro
Does Hydreigon hit too hard and has too many ins? Well, one could argue this. However, I believe its counterplay wouldn't be too different from something like Porygon-Z (who is not broken btw). You still get outsped and demolished by Mienshao and Terrakion who should be played in 100% of teams because the diversity in this tier for physical attackers is non existent outside of HO goons so you'll have a Hydreigon answer right there and then every time without thinking about it. If you want to tank Hydreigon, you always have defensive staples like Blissey, Muk-A, Wo-Chien, Umbreon, Hoodra, Klefki, or Registeel to tank a few hits and retaliate back or something idk. Taunt and NP sets sound scary at first, but the mons I cited don't really care about those (except Umbreon) since they can either directly retaliate (Body Press Registeel, Muk-A in general, hoodra) or be Blissey.

5. It actually diversifies the tier
COOL niche options like Pawmot, Kilowattrel, Tornadus, Lycanroc-D, Raikou, and many others, can also play around Hydreigon or straight up beat it to varying degrees, shooting creativity and diversity levels through the roof.

6. It's fucking rad
You know what RU needs? A cool mon being the best in the tier, and not bozo nerd number one Slowbro over there with absolutely 0 cool things about it. Hydreigon however, now that's a mon that will bring players in because everyone loves Hydreigon. People will also love unviable trash like Scale Shot Snarl Throat Spray so they (and I) can enjoy that. This will finally bring more players to the tier, something the tier absolutely needs.

B-But tournaments are happening!
Just like all other 364 days of the year. Also I don't play in tournaments and nor does ladder so that's not my (our) problem lololol

B-But RU would become the Hydreigon tier!
Name a single person who would be against that.
View attachment 813480

Free Hydreigon at once and make RU fun again.​

genuinely, why get out of your way to write a full post drowning in cynicism on a tier you haven't touched for a year about a subject that isn't even really in the talks (with how unstable the tier alr is and will become, no unbans are really in the talks)? i think it would be healthier for everyone to just not

 

[Flabeauf]

genuinely, why get out of your way to write a full post drowning in cynicism on a tier you haven't touched for a year about a subject that isn't even really in the talks (with how unstable the tier alr is and will become, no unbans are really in the talks)? i think it would be healthier for everyone to just not

I think what actually bothers you isn’t “instability,” it’s the type of pressure Hydreigon would introduce.
Hydreigon isn’t just an offensive nuke. It’s an offensive Pokémon that also brings real defensive utility: useful resistances (Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Ghost, Dark), a Ground immunity, and decent natural bulk. It can pivot into threats, force progress, and still maintain momentum.
That’s exactly the kind of profile that makes pure HO less comfortable.
Right now, HO benefits a lot from linear pressure: stack hazards, trade aggressively, overwhelm with things like Mimikyu, Gengar, Bisharp, etc. What Hydreigon does is compress roles, it can check certain offensive threats while also being a breaker or pivot itself. That kind of role compression is naturally annoying for hyper offense because it reduces how easily you can snowball.
So when you say retesting it would “destabilize” the tier, it feels more like you’re worried about destabilizing HO specifically. A mon that both pressures offense and doesn’t fit neatly into the “frail glass cannon” mold makes games less matchup-fishy and less auto-pilot for aggressive builds.
If anything, a Pokémon that adds defensive value while still being offensive could push the tier toward healthier interaction, not chaos.
It’s fine to prefer HO, but let’s be honest about what’s actually being threatened here.

 

[Canard]

I think what actually bothers you isn’t “instability,” it’s the type of pressure Hydreigon would introduce.
Hydreigon isn’t just an offensive nuke. It’s an offensive Pokémon that also brings real defensive utility: useful resistances (Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Ghost, Dark), a Ground immunity, and decent natural bulk. It can pivot into threats, force progress, and still maintain momentum.
That’s exactly the kind of profile that makes pure HO less comfortable.
Right now, HO benefits a lot from linear pressure: stack hazards, trade aggressively, overwhelm with things like Mimikyu, Gengar, Bisharp, etc. What Hydreigon does is compress roles, it can check certain offensive threats while also being a breaker or pivot itself. That kind of role compression is naturally annoying for hyper offense because it reduces how easily you can snowball.
So when you say retesting it would “destabilize” the tier, it feels more like you’re worried about destabilizing HO specifically. A mon that both pressures offense and doesn’t fit neatly into the “frail glass cannon” mold makes games less matchup-fishy and less auto-pilot for aggressive builds.
If anything, a Pokémon that adds defensive value while still being offensive could push the tier toward healthier interaction, not chaos.
It’s fine to prefer HO, but let’s be honest about what’s actually being threatened here.

i don't really care for hydreigon i just feel like having posts drenched in cynicism against a strawman that as far as i'm aware doesn't really feel like anyone in the community, by someone who isn't really playing anymore nor active in the community isn't a healthy way of having discussions

 

[THE_CHUNGLER]

Why Re-testing Hydreigon Would Be A Good Thing, Actually
​

1. It really shakes things up
Are you tired of Slowbro? Are Armarouge and Bisharp dumb as bricks? Can't switch into Krookodile? Want your attackers to not get kneecapped by HO and all adjacent cheese (Rain/Sun)? Well do I have the solution for you. Hydreigon also pretty handily tanks Shadow Balls from Scarf Gengar so you don't have to play bike when you realise that actually your team folds to Ghosts. Mimikyu is a pain in the butt but Hydreigon is faster and resists Shadow Sneak and everyone hates Mimikyu so that's a good thing. HO goons such as Torterra, Porygon-Z, Armarouge, Basculegion and others are all outsped and take either a huge chunk or are outright OHKOed, Hydreigon can tank any hit too, and it's immune to Webs so it makes the archetype much less oppressive than it is now (Especially once Talonflame rises to UU!). Hydreigon can switch into mono attacking cringe Suicune sets, outboost with NP and break through it too.

2. All my homies hate hazards
With Talonflame most likely leaving us in a month courtesy of evil UU ladder, hazards will be quite unfun to deal with. What do we need then? Easy, a top 1 mon that is resilient to them. Hydreigon can set Rocks itself, but don't run rocks on hydreigon come on what are you doing, just click dark pulse

3. Defensive utility? In my RU?
One of the reasons RU is cringe is because attackers are just dumb clickers that provide no defensive utility but still hit way too hard. With Hydreigon, you finally get a way to switch into attackers without the out being Blissey or something equally uninteresting and UNCOOL. The top 1 mon being an offensive presence that also brings defensive utility will be a breath of fresh air and allow for new player to player interactions at once.

4. It's balanced! source: trust me bro
Does Hydreigon hit too hard and has too many ins? Well, one could argue this. However, I believe its counterplay wouldn't be too different from something like Porygon-Z (who is not broken btw). You still get outsped and demolished by Mienshao and Terrakion who should be played in 100% of teams because the diversity in this tier for physical attackers is non existent outside of HO goons so you'll have a Hydreigon answer right there and then every time without thinking about it. If you want to tank Hydreigon, you always have defensive staples like Blissey, Muk-A, Wo-Chien, Umbreon, Hoodra, Klefki, or Registeel to tank a few hits and retaliate back or something idk. Taunt and NP sets sound scary at first, but the mons I cited don't really care about those (except Umbreon) since they can either directly retaliate (Body Press Registeel, Muk-A in general, hoodra) or be Blissey.

5. It actually diversifies the tier
COOL niche options like Pawmot, Kilowattrel, Tornadus, Lycanroc-D, Raikou, and many others, can also play around Hydreigon or straight up beat it to varying degrees, shooting creativity and diversity levels through the roof.

6. It's fucking rad
You know what RU needs? A cool mon being the best in the tier, and not bozo nerd number one Slowbro over there with absolutely 0 cool things about it. Hydreigon however, now that's a mon that will bring players in because everyone loves Hydreigon. People will also love unviable trash like Scale Shot Snarl Throat Spray so they (and I) can enjoy that. This will finally bring more players to the tier, something the tier absolutely needs.

B-But tournaments are happening!
Just like all other 364 days of the year. Also I don't play in tournaments and nor does ladder so that's not my (our) problem lololol

B-But RU would become the Hydreigon tier!
Name a single person who would be against that.
View attachment 813480

Free Hydreigon at once and make RU fun again.​

This post is fairly well thought out and seems reasonable.

It’s totally possible it’s too much for the tier still though, we don’t have really any good fairy types that want to fight this thing and our steel types have sort of awkward typings with which to fight hydreigon. Jirachi and goodra are very flawed vs it and bisharp struggles to do immediate damage+is pretty frail on the special side vs super effective moves

In terms of general spdef walls that don’t take big damage, umbreon is an option though can get owned easily by substitute or taunt.

I do like that hyrdreigon doesn’t have easy access to speed boosting so it is a pure breaker/glue mon, and doesn’t have roost to break certain nasty plot sets.

 

[LBN]

So in the past like 30 minutes we had

A hydreigon unban post that, admittedly, doesn't make its points well
A random dunk with no value (seriously, this thread never gets posts why are we gatekeeping for a reason like this piss off)
A literal chatgpt reply
And then a reply to that chatgpt reply.
Thank you Normal Human Being Chungler
A reaction image (im fine w this)

Help me god. That being said, while i would probably not unban hydreigon like ever lmfao, I do think the argument of it bringing some value to the tier has merit that shouldn't be disregarded immediately. Offensive Arma check, Spikes immune breaker mon, good natural bulk and resistances. We don't have many of these, and I can see the value that these traits bring.

At the same time this thing is like, pmuch undeniably broken and warping. Hydreigon does have speed boosting in its kit, both scale shot and DD. While clunky, its possible to do this and that is exemplified by specs having no switchins and np taunt killing anything not tera fairy. It'd make the tier an offense fest of who Hydreigons better.

However, the real question is.. would this still be an improvement? That's the question you should be thinking of from fluff's post. In my opinion, probably not? But it'd be a fun experiment at the very least and I do think it's a proposal that shouldn't be shot down at the gate, because there is absolutely merit to trying the idea out in practice. Will it happen? saying this not as a council member but as a normal user, yeah no lmao. But what I don't like seeing is someone making a post with at least a decent amount of effort/thought put into it get shoved aside because of stupid reasons like "you havent played the tier in a year (speculation)" or "the post is dripping with cynicism (so what)"

 

[hedera__helix]

Hydreigon is projected to rise to UU next tier shift anyways so moot point

 

[fluff!!]

This is a post about mainly Sample Teams, but it will also touch on usage stats and tiering.

Let's get straight to the point: There is not enough sample teams. For comparison, here is the number of sample teams for the other main tiers:
OU: 17 sample teams
UU: 10 sample teams
RU: 6 sample teams
NU: 15 sample teams
PU: 7 sample teams

As you can see, with the exception of PU, RU is trailing far behind all other tiers.

Ok but why is this a problem though? I would like to point 2 reasons:

1. It reduces perceived diversity, and ladder diversity
The lesser of the two problems, this simply means that you are more likely to find the same teams on ladder, or slight variations of said teams. It also fails to convey the diversity of the tier. Of the 4 balance sample teams, Slowbro is in all 4 of them, Krookodile in 3 of them, and many 2s like Gengar, Talonflame, Jirachi, Noivern, Breloom. It doesn't sound too bad, but surely we can manage to expand our showcase a little more. Also, do Offense and Stall not exist in the tier? Of course they do, but a new player wanting to try out those archetypes will be left with good ol' nothing to try.

2. It directly impacts usage and tiering for RU and tiers below
This is the actual important problem in my opinion. I am sure you have heard of this post in policy review. I would love to take part in it but I physically can't lol so instead I'll point out how we are currently directly participating in the worsening of the problem.
And to show this, look no further than Toxtricity.

Disclaimer

There are other mons it could apply too, both today (Torterra) and before that (don't got any off the top of my head but there has to be other examples), but this would complicate things further so let's keep it simple.

Toxtricity is highly likely to rise to RU next shifts due to LBN's Webs Sample team. Here is proof of my claim:

This is Toxtricity's teammates according to February's stats.
As you can see, you have the 5 teammates of the Sample team, and a gigantic difference between Ribombee and Mimikyu. We can infer that therefore, approximately at least 60% of Toxtricity's usage in RU comes from 1 single team, without accounting for edits of the sample that might have different teammates.
Toxtricity had a 6.1% usage rate in February, remove 60% from that and you end up with Toxtricity at below 3% usage, way lower than the threshold to rise.

Whether you believe this is normal and how it should function, I will let you decide. But what I do know, is that we are going to steal Toxtricity from NU, which is such an important mon of the tier that it has just received a suspect test. All because of 1 sample team (which I do not have anything against, it's totally viable and works well as a sample), which has no competition as one of the two HO samples, and the only Webs team.

My personal opinion is that this should simply not happen, it would not happen if we had more diversity in sample teams, and this issue directly impacts NU.


So what do we do now? You could argue that I am part of the problem as I literally haven't submitted a sample team recently, and... ok you are right BUT I would like to take a look at the tournament scene. Surely, with all the tournaments happening all the time where there SHOULD be high quality teams, let's try and have tournament players submit sample teams.
Obviously you cannot force one to submit their teams, but surely someone out here cares enough to participate...

I don't see the solution to this problem except, like, begging to active players to submit teams, but then if you force people it could lower the quality of the samples and... you get the point, I haven't found the universal solution. At least you have this post as food for thought. Or maybe I'm over exaggerating again idk

 

[GoldCat]

If only "RU" (you know who you are) cared about fostering healthy competitive development instead of desperately clinging to every tiny advantage they can get their greedy little hands on. No, everything has to be done in shadows and kept behind closed doors for the lucky few.

The despair!

 

[Bice]

If only "RU" (you know who you are) cared about fostering healthy competitive development instead of desperately clinging to every tiny advantage they can get their greedy little hands on. No, everything has to be done in shadows and kept behind closed doors for the lucky few.

The despair!

 

[Quinn]

If only "RU" (you know who you are) cared about fostering healthy competitive development instead of desperately clinging to every tiny advantage they can get their greedy little hands on. No, everything has to be done in shadows and kept behind closed doors for the lucky few.

The despair!

THATS MY CAT

 

[zause]

THATS MY CAT

NO HES MINE GIVE HIM BACK

 

[FlamPoke]

another point I'd like to add is that there has only been one sample team submitted since the tier shifts

Only on smogon, plenty were submitted and approved to the samples team and they were updated recently. Check out the discord if you want more team advice and general yap

 

[Helias]

Only on smogon, plenty were submitted and approved to the samples team and they were updated recently. Check out the discord if you want more team advice and general yap

I will definitely be doing this but to my stuck-in-BW-era-competitive brain saying "oh don't worry only smogon is out of date" just makes me very sad for reasons I can (and have) rant about for hours and hours

 

[Elec-ant1234]

​

A fresh thread has been long overdue, and this would be a good time for one! July 2025 shifts are in and they are quite.... interesting:

Gains

IT'S BEEN SO LONG

SINCE LAST I SAW SOME DROPS

LOST TO THIS MONSTER

TO THE TIER BEHIND THE RISES


SINCE YOU'VE BEEN GONE

I'VE BEEN SINGING THIS STUPID SONG

SO I CAN PONDER

THE SANITY OF THY PLAYERS

 

[feen]

Rip goodbye Talonflame and Mew.

The council is currently voting on a slate and we should have some interesting news soon (today).

Also rises are frozen now so evil UU can never take Slowbro.

Elephant in the room is obviously Mienshao, but Porygon Z, Armarouge, and Bisharp should also be looked at closely - we’re aware that the community is a bit split on these Pokemon and what should go first, but we intend on looking at them altogether with a survey (in 3 weeks, accounting for a potential Mienshao suspect) and then suspecting another one. If anything looks blatantly out of control council can hold an emergency slate to ban them but that’s a pretty high bar to cross.

 

[Astro]

Also rises are frozen now so evil UU can never take Slowbro.

Rip goodbye Talonflame and Mew.

 

[Hoops]

Tera blast banned, tier saved.

Spoiler

The question now lies in what we could unban now that its been removed, and I think there are probably like 3 tiers of worthiness as to what could be brought back to the tier.

Tier 1: Fine/Already Unbanned

: Both these guys have been brought back which is fun. Both of these should be fine, if not even underpowered for the tier. Both struggle to get past our steels now that they don't have easy access ground coverage, but they can definitely still find some niche in the tier. Comfey still probably has some niche against HO builds w/ a strongish DKiss especially if boosted + amped up by a potential tera fairy, but it most likely falls down to be pretty insignificant in the tier. Yanmega finds itself in the same boat, completely walled by any of our real steels with its favorite throat spray set, maybe we see some pivoting to tinted lens stuff, but the most egregious set is pretty manageable now.

Tier 2: Maybe Fine/Do they add anything worthwhile

: You can probably debate on what fills up these slots, but in my eyes these are prob the most fine-ish to let free, maybe Volc is a bit of a sneak but I miss that dude badly. Gyarados lost its most spammable click in Tera Blast Flying, but it does still have options to beat would be walls. It just becomes a question of what you're willing to drop in order to fit in all of Temper Flare/Ice Fang/Stone Edge/Earthquake/Crunch/Substitute to deal with your various walls, does this 4MSS help enough to let it back into the tier, its debatable, but might be something interesting to look into. Serp and Thundy are just questions of whether we want more para spreaders in the tier, both can get checked to a decent extent by our current roster, Serp more than Thundy to be sure, so maybe there's some separation between them, but for the most part they do just serve as para bots. A lot of the controversy around Volc came from its FairyBlast sets, which gave it super free clicks into the entirety of the tier. With that gone, it now has to find ways to get around the likes of Noivern, who trades pretty easily with it, and Gastrodon which pretty much hard walls, as well as less immediately threatening ways to check it like PP stalling with Suicune and other fat waters, and Cyclizar chipping it with knock and phazing. I'm a little biased, but I'd love to see Volc back, I think that it served as a great glue mon whose lack of presence in the builder can definitely be felt now, at least for me.

Tier 3: If You Squint Then Maybe



I think a lot of these depend in what direction you want to take the tier in, Blastoise loses a way to consistently break through our waters without the right move, which was kind of the reason that it got banned in the first place, but its of course to less of an extreme now that it can't pick Tera Blast Ghost or Electric or Fairy or etc.. Its got to either spec into Dark Pulse to muscle past Slowbro, Aura Sphere or Earthquake to deal with Steels like Empoleon, but it realistically can't spec into all of these at once without sacrificing a needed move like Ice Beam or whatever Water STAB it decides on. That's not even to mention that new staples, like Suicune, pretty effectively handle Blastoise without much issue. But, of course, it will probably be an HO bot, so it's again a pick your poison type of situation. Horoark could be interesting, but truthfully it wasn't banned because of its tera blast synergy in the first place, it's just an annoying dude to play against, and I think Gengar has been an all around more fair and fun ghost choiced-user, I don't see a reason to have its role challenged at this point. Lucha has been a pretty hot topic throughout the course of the gen, but it now loses on more option in Tera Blast Electric to deal with Bro more cleanly, still has access to options like Tera Flying Acro so again, can probably be contested as to whether its a good addition or not. And then we've got Mienshao, banned not even a month ago at this point who has had its main partner in crime, PZ, nerfed by losing the sheer versatility that Tera Blast provided it. Is it alright now, eeeeehh. It's probably still questionable, I wasn't the biggest in favor of its ban in the first place, but I think that the tier has been a bit more fun to play and build without it, so I think giving it a bit of time before a potential reintroduction would be fine.

Tier 4: Probably Not

: All of these dudes didn't really need Tera Blast specifically to be broken, and should probably be left out of conversation of reintroduction. Maybe there's a bit of wiggle room for some of them, but they generally have fine enough coverage boosted by regular tera to be to much.

I'd say this is what I consider the most in terms of reintroducing stuff into the tier, would be happy to hear other opinions though, but I think that the ban of tera blast is gonna make it a lot more fun to play. Mons like Entei and PZ aren't gonna be able to singlehandedly break through many balanced squads anymore, and so my general hope is that we see the rise of BO again over the next coming months, hopefully boistered by RULT.

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

Please don't free Volcanion. Serperior is probably the most reasonable thing to free from BL; this thing has no coverage and while it can Knock and Glare, that's not really enough to make it broken. It has a good speed tier and I think it would be a good addition to the tier, and it could actually help against Webs teams. And keep in mind, it only has 8 PP of Leaf Storm, it would have to use a second grass STAB for more PP and that takes a valuable moveslot like Sub. Hawluchah never got another chance since it was banned as far as I know but that's probably because it should not get another chance.

 

[fluff!!]

God is Real and Banned Tera Blast, the tier might become playable now!



In addition to Armarouge's ban, HO lost 3 prime broken Tera Blast abusers in the span of a day. This was VERY MUCH needed, and there is now a chance the archetype settles to a more reasonable power level.

Torterra and Porygon-Z are naturally hit the hardest, with Porygon-Z being unable to break past Hoodra, and Torterra not having Flying, Fire, or Fairy STAB to turn Chesnaught into a fine red mist. Torterra technically has the option to run Tera Ghost and maybe try to cheese some wins against mono-attacking Chesnaught sets, but why'd you run that.

Bisharp is not losing too too much, Tera Blast was not really make a break for it, especially considering that it still has access to Aerial Ace which is a very viable option on Tera Flying sets to beat Chesnaught all the same. Or at least force scouting. Still, Tera Blast Fairy was an option it does not have access to anymore. Potentially suspect worthy, but I reckon we should wait a bit since Tera Blast really was a huge part of why the best archetype, HO, was so threatening. when I say wait a bit, I don't mean 6 months :)


Tera Blast Ghost was a very strong option on Breloom, and the strongest Stallbreaker in the tier [citation needed]. It still has use in this role, it's not as if it relied exclusively on Tera Blast Ghost to beat Stall or Slowbro in this role, but it has to deal with having a more limited coverage now.


Not having the option of Tera Blast Grass means all the Grounds have to be ready for Tera Grass Trailblaze instead of the stronger Tera Blast Grass. Choice Band gets the OHKO on max def Quag and Gastrodon, but boots Jolly now misses the OHKO by a 20% margin, meaning you have to take a Toxic/Ice Beam/hazard layer since Sacred Fire into Trailblaze does not KO. Tera Grass Trailblaze gets the job done well enough, but Entei will probably shift many stocks from Tera Grass to Tera Normal. Something to keep in mind.


Tera Blast Grass being gone means Gastrodon and Quagsire are safe to switch into it blind. Well, Quag doesn't love tanking Specs Analytic Flash Cannon, but yea.


Tera Blast was always an option on this given it loves cherrypicking what it deletes off the face of the Earth. Tera Blast Fairy is now off the table, so is Tera Blast Ground for special Ground STAB. Necrozma isn't very popular anyway but Tera Blast being gone hurts it nonetheless. Retains good natural coverage for DD sets.


Losing Tera Blast Ground pretty much kills any Specs or Quiver Dance sets on the spot. I loved running these sets, but it practically changes nothing for the tier given their 0.00001% usage. A valiant soldier we lost on the battlefield, for the greater good.


These niche lower tier mons had to rely on Tera Blast to really have a place in RU, so they are pretty much gone now. And no, despite being great on paper, I am never ever loading Reuniclus in a tier with Muk-A.


As to what to free (after Yanmega/Comfey): Nothing, every mon in RUBL is cringe :) except Thundurus

edit: necrozma is mean and bad

 

[Elec-ant1234]

I'm gonna see if I can try and get ahead of LBN on this one and just kinda go over what these new changes will mean for the tier.
TLDR: Offense of all kinds has become way more honest and will have to be structured differently than what most builders experienced with this tier are probably familiar with. No more Tera Blast to save your mons from being walled. Additionally, with Yanmega and Comfey dropping, BO and Balance get fun new tools, since spoiler alert: without Tera Blast both mons cannot fulfill their HO roles anymore.


THE CHANGES:
Tera Blast, as per OU's prerogative, has been BANNED to the joy of many (sorry canard)
Armarouge has been BANNED (sorry canard)
Comfey and Yanmega are UNBANNED from RUBL and will be rejoining the tier


TONIGHT'S BIGGEST LOSERS:


These guys pretty much relied on Tera Blast to beat their biggest checks, and now they'll be forced to play the same game as everyone else. PZ is sent to low-income housing without the ability for agility sets to beat steels and such, and all tera blast shenanigans in general are off the table, so unless it starts running Tri Attack, its overall damage output is gonna be way less without adaptability sets and TB in general helping it out.

Entei now has to run Tera Grass Trailblaze to beat Quag and Gastro, and is now unable to OHKO either of them, which while this is still strong for Entei, it means that in general the guy can't autowin vs. stall teams by instantly smiting Quag, and has to take a toxic now for his trouble.

Bish no longer can do Tera Blast Fairy / Flying games, so Ches is once again a check. Not the worst punishment, but it def sucks for the guy.

The LBN sample no longer autowins vs. Ches teams. Tort now has zero options to OHKO Torterra, and has to rely on Zen Headbutt to hit the guy at all for a mediocre 2HKO.

Magnezone, like Entei, no longer has the option to instantly nuke Quag and Gastro and kinda doesn't have any options to beat em anymore. Extreme nerf to specs sets.

TONIGHT'S KINDA LOSERS


Bee doesn't get to do QD sets anymore, which while that's unfortunate for set variety, is a win for everyone else with a soul who wasn't running that set.

Cloyster is now honest and cannot nuke Slowbro / Suicune, and has to do so the old-fashioned way, but this guy was lesser seen in the RU scene so he's down here.

Craw really kinda didn't run Tera Blast Fairy too much before, but now you'll have to just run Sludge Wave sets to be able to threaten Ches.

Regidrago is another RarelySeen mon, but Regidrago has officially lost any way of being able to hit fairies with anything more than a tickle.

TONIGHT'S ASSORTED LOSERS


The Tera Blast ghost set is dead now, thank god

no one like ACTUALLY ran Tera Blast Ice Jolteon, but for the few people on low ladder who did, I'm sorry.

CM sets are now kinda dead in the water, and so Mixed Relic Song shall reign eternal (doesn't really matter since it was already the better set but whatevs)

similar to Craw where the Tera Blast Fairy set was a cool thing for it to run, but now it's just gotta rely on the normal tools it already has. Not a massive nerf, but not anything it appreciates losing.

Frosmoth found dead in California

The Armarouge ban already really sucks for snow teams, but Nasty Plot sets are kinda just not now.

Tera Blast Fighting Slowbro. This is the loss that we all grieve the most.



Aside from individual losses, HO in particular, with almost all styles except for Rain, have been severely nerfed with the combo of Armarouge leaving and Tera Blast being banned. Armarouge was an incredibly crucial glue mon for almost every HO team, and now with it gone, the most common fairy, fighting, and fire resist on HO is just not around anymore. Tera Blast being gone also makes it so that HO teams have to rely on their already small pool of mons to now have the exact right coverage, and that's frankly a tall task to ask. I wish you luck Canard. Godspeed.

and I guess onto Yanmega and Comfey, they both were major uses of Tera Blast, and are now both incredibly walled by our Steels. Yanmega, if it wants to do anything it did before, will have to be paired with Trapper Mag to eliminate steels, and Comfey is more of the same.

To adapt, the current discussion and predictions by the Discord (thanks heatranator and gang), are that Yanmega will probably switch from Speed Boost to Tinted Lens and be a fast special breaker for BO teams, with Bug Buzz, Air Slash, U-turn, and whatever else that thing gets. Psychic Noise?

Comfey will probably be a good addition to balance teams, since it gets a lot of pretty good moves, like Taunt, U-turn, Knock Off, and Encore. That paired with a pretty solid priority move in Draining Kiss means that it gets quite a lot of role compression, and will most likely be a very solid mon for teams to run.


uhh as for big winners of this:
Stall and Balance in general are giga buffed, since Armarouge stomped both of them, and Tera Blast was the biggest terror of these teams, since you never knew when some random guy on ladder running Infernape would pull out Tera Blast Electric and nuke your Slowbro or something.
In general since a lot got nerfed by these changes, it also means that previously good mons that were outclassed by Tera Blast gamers like Necrozma could possibly get better due to naturally having the coverage they want, and just being made better by everything else getting worse.

Anyways the tier is saved, and once ladder updates I think we'll see the tier be revamped in a way no one could have ever predicted. Additionally, i KNOW that some guys in UU are gonna become dogshit and are gonna drop as a result, so everyone get ready for more additions to the tier.

Anyways have a great day y'all!