New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"

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thetorsoboy said:
So, I'm trying to come up with a good set, here. It uses a Platinum only level-up move, though, but I need some help with it.

400-m.png

Bibarel @Leftovers (???)
Adamant with: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 6 Defense (???)
Simple ability
- Quick Attack
- Waterfall
- Curse
- Yawn/Rest/Super Power

So, double STAB is awesome here. (Quick Attack / Waterfall) But, the key is that with one Curse (Thanks to Simple) Bibarel gets +2 Attack, +2 Defense, and -2 Speed.

I'm stuck on EVs, though. And moves. Mainly the last slot. Quick Attack is for priority and STAB, because with -2 Speed and +2 Attack plus STAB, Quick Attack rapes. Waterfall for 90 power STAB, and the last slot is questionable here.

Uh, just thought of Super Power. (Platinum as well) It lowers Attack and Defense, but after one Curse and a Super Power, Bibarel still has +1 Attack and +1 Defense, so Super Power seems like a good choice.
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Wouldn't Simple double the Superpower lowering? Pretty much negating your curse?

You could run amnesia there too, to make it more tankish, but then you lose out on recovery/coverage.

I'd go with rest for now. >__>
 
Oh, yeah. Stupid Simple. Okay, Super Power isn't as awesome now. I guess Rest works for now.

I'm just wondering about the EVs, though. 252 Attack isn't the best, because of all the attack boosting.
 
Khyl said:
Eh, why not?

Houndoom: Anti-Lead

Counter
Protect
Taunt
Fire Blast/Dark Pulse

Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Early Bird/Flash Fire
Nature: Timid
EVs: 40 HP/ 216 SpAt/ 252 Spe

This works pretty well on common leads, namely Bronzong, Azelf, and Roserade, and is good against many others. Fire Blast is generally the better move here, but Dark Pulse is more reliable. Early Bird can help against hypnosis users, but Flash Fire can still be used to switch into fire attacks.

Bronzong: Taunt it, then Protect in case it explodes, or just to scout what attack it uses, and if its Earthquake, either switch in a Levitator, or counter it.

Azelf: Taunt, even though it will set up SR before you can, but it forces it to attack. Protect as it explodes.

Roserade: Taunt, preventing TS or Sleep Powder, then Fire Blast for the 2KO.

Deoxys-S: Taunt it, unless it Taunts you first, in which case, switch to your counter.

Infernape: Protect from the Fake Out, and then counter the Close Combat.

Gengar: It can be 2KO'd, but Focus Blast OHKOs it, and they normally have that.

Yanmega: It normally protects first turn, so it outspeeds you, then 2KOs you before you can get it, assuming its running a sash.

TTar/Hippowdon: Unfortunatly, the best you can hope for is countering a physical attack before the Sand ruins your sash.

Abamosnow: Fire Blast OHKOs.

Smeargle/Ninjask: Taunt shuts them down. (IIRC, Taunt can go through subs....?)

Gyarados: Protect to see if it attacks or Taunts the first turn, then act accordingly.

Aerodactyl: Attack while it sets up SR, removing its sash, then counter its attack.

The list of leads that it counters goes on and on, I've had generally good success with it.
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No thoughts on LeadDoom? :(
 
thetorsoboy said:
Actually, I'm thinking of Amnesia, too, because one Amnesia is +4 with Bibarel. o.o So, SpDef EVs aren't needed.

I'm thinking Max HP, for sure. Maybe some attack and some Defense.
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Don't use any hp evs, since you are boosting your defenses, putting evs in defenses is better then putting it in hp.
 
I was thinking 252 HP, and then a mix of the rest into Attack and Defense. No SpDef EVs because you get +4, but Attack and Defense EVs because you only get +2 for those.

Right?
 
A Curse Bibarel without Taunt is a sad Bibarel. Especially in standards where you'll find Skarmory, Bronzong, Empoleon (Vaporeon if you have Quick Attack over Return.. Articuno, Blastiose, etc, etc) happy to switch in and phaze you.. or put you out of commission with sleep. STAB Quick Attack seems like it's great with the Curse set, but trust me, the additional power of Return is required against bulky waters.

And Super Power will be hitting the before mentioned Empoleon harder, but it doesn't really provide the protection Taunt does.
 
Personally, if your going to rely on Quick Attack dealing the damage against faster opponents, I don't see why you would need to invest as much on your defenses.

Of course, Leftovers would be required. As would arbitarary 252 HP, to maximize the defensive boosts of Amnesia and Curse. after that idk: good luck with that.
 
373salamence.png

Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 198 HP/160 SpD/152 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw

Okay, okay. Hear me out on this one. I know seems odd, but listen here. This is my version of the "BulkyMence." Now, I gave it SpecialDefense EVs for Ice Beam suport, and I don't need Defensive EVs because of what Intimidate can do. After one DD, I rerach 410 speed, and 553 attack. Couple that with instant recovery, and a temporary loss of x4 ice weak(to give it x2), this thing is a bulky sweeper. Earthquake and Dragon Claw for coverage.

Here is a vid of it(at 2:54)

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=NUuEwRmnQss
 
This seems like a good idea for some other type of Lucario (Platinum moveset)

Lucario @ Life Orb/ Focus Sash (Sash if he leads, which I guess he can do)
Adamant Nature - Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

-Agility
-Close Combat
-Ice Punch
-Thunder Punch

Can't take out walls like SD Luke, but handles some other threats (Salamance, Gyarados) much better

thetorsoboy said:
Well, after one Curse, everything outspeeds him.
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It doesn't seem like taunt would be useful because of this
 
Taunt is still very useful on Cursebarel. It stops Roar/Whirlwind, which have negative priority, so the speed drop doesn't even matter there.

And doesn't Bibarel get Aqua Jet? I might be mistaken, but that would give it two priority options. Either QA/Aqua Tail, or Return/Aqua Jet. Or both, if you were that confident in its attacking capabilities. In which case I'd give it a Life Orb. >.>

Edit: Nevermind, it doesn't get Aqua Jet. But Life Orb would still be good on it, and Aqua Tail is superior in this case to Waterfall.

Its going to be so slow, it can't take advantage of the flinch rate of Waterfall anyways.
 
I enjoy using a:

Birabel@ Leftovers
Impish
252 Hp, 136 Def, 120 SpD

Amnesia
Defense Curl
Rest
Rollout

This way Birabel gets 209 Defense, and 186 Special Defense. This allows Birabel to get 418 Defense after 1 Defense Curl, and 558 Special Defense after 1 Amnesia, while maintaining at 362 HP.

Now it can heal, boost both defenses and sweep even without Curse. Also Defense curl boosts Rollout's Base power x2 for each use!

Use this in UU, as there are lots of Bug, Flying, and Fire types there, which Rollout hits hard.
 
hhjj, Rollout? With no Attack EVs, Super Fang is your best bet. And, I finally perfected my Bibarel set.


avatar18676_15.gif

Cursing Bibarel - Adamant (+Attack, -Special Attack) ♂
Ability: Simple
Item Held: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 6 Defense
- Curse
- Amnesia
- Waterfall / Aqua Tail
- Quick Attack / Return

Let me explain this, move by move.

Waterfall/Aqua Tail is purely preference, 80 base power and 100 accuracy versus 90 base power and 90 base accuracy. Nothing important there.

Quick Attack vs. Return. Let's just say:
thetorsoboy said:
Here, I'll run a quick damage calculation on Swampert. (Standard Bulky set, 240 HP / 216 Defense, relaxed)

Quick Attack (+2 Attack): 21.2% - 25.44%
Return (+2 Attack): 54.61% - 64.34%

Holy crap, I see your point.
Click to expand...

If you really want to sacrifice all that power for priority, go ahead.


Curse. That's important. With Simple, one curse will give +2 Attack, +2 Defense, and -2 Speed. That's beast.

Finally, Amnesia. Amnesia gives +4 Special Defense in one turn. I don't like Taunt. Because, this set is mainly mid/late game, because Bibarel needs to set up. Even if he Taunts, without a Curse/Amnesia, anything will kill him. (Base 60 Defenses, here)

The EVs are Simple, just like his ability. 252 HP to take all hits, and 252 Attack to beef up his low attack stat. Now, why I didn't put any EVs into Defense/Special Defense is easy. Nothing in the UU metagame can OHKO Bibarel (No Curse/Amnesia) unless it's has 252 Special Attack EVs. So, sweepers kill him. Which is why he is late game.

He can survive an Emopleon's Grass Knot/HP Electric with Modest and no Special Attack EVs. I'll run more calcs if need be.
Click to expand...
 
The reason being that Ghosts are more common in UU: Bannette, Shedinja, Drifblim, Frosslass, etc. and because it can never KO (Leftovers will always keep opponents away from being at 1 HP, etc.).

With Defense Curl, it can effectively double Rollout 3 times: 30 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 240, and heal off damage after using it 5 turns in a row to do it again.

It works better than Shuckle because Shuckle cannot boost its Special Defense, and Seismic Toss owns it, plus Shuckle has a much slower speed, so it will always go last, where as Birabel can surpass Shuckle's Special Defense in 1-2 turns (depending on Shuckle's Nature), and maintain a Higher HP.

Birabel shouldn't have only 1 move that pokemon are immune to, such as Super Fang (Ghosts), or only Waterfall/Aqua Tail (Water Absorbers like Lapras), it should have at least 2, or in the case of Rollout, so much base power it doesn't matter.
 
M4GNITUDE said:
373salamence.png

Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 198 HP/160 SpD/152 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw

Okay, okay. Hear me out on this one. I know seems odd, but listen here. This is my version of the "BulkyMence." Now, I gave it SpecialDefense EVs for Ice Beam suport, and I don't need Defensive EVs because of what Intimidate can do. After one DD, I rerach 410 speed, and 553 attack. Couple that with instant recovery, and a temporary loss of x4 ice weak(to give it x2), this thing is a bulky sweeper. Earthquake and Dragon Claw for coverage.

Here is a vid of it(at 2:54)

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=NUuEwRmnQss
Click to expand...

Aldaron posted this set in Peer Edits about a month ago.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43598
 
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