New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"

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Rotom Heat Form @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk) or Bold (+Def, -Atk)
EV: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 Spe or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
-Overheat
-Reflect
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball

The EVs allow him to reach 280 Speed, enough to outrun Adamant Lucario and Adamant Heracross. You can run max speed as well, which ties with Jolly Heracross and neutral nature Electivire, but they are destroyed by this anyways. He needs maximum HP to take hits, and the rest went into defense because this set is geared towards beating SD Lucario, Heracross, Toxicroak, etc. Any of Rotom's new forms can also serve as counters for Yanmega, resisting Bug Buzz and Air Slash while being immune to HP Ground. STAB Thunderbolt will put it away. Reflect is for team support, and generally outclasses Will-o-Wisp for its superior accuracy, being passable, not giving Guts abusers a boost, as well as not giving Flash Fire pokemon a boost, as Houndoom doesn't need anymore reason to come in and rape this. A SD Bullet Punch from an Adamant Lucario only does 32% maximum, so this can switch in everytime and threaten with Overheat. Overheat does 96-113% to 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario, so if they Bullet Punched you they are dead because of Life Orb recoil. CB Adamant Heracross manages 61% maximum to this with Megahorn, so you can't afford to switch in very often, but you can still wall Close Combats/Stone Edges easily, and with Reflect set up it only manages 30% with the same Megahorn. Overheat easily 2HKOs Heracross. This is even more useful against UU walls such as Steelix, who can't do shit except Gyro Ball or Stone Edge, which won't do much at all, while Overheat will deal plenty of damage.

The alternative EV spread is much bulkier, but you are now outsped by the things Timid is used for... However, the bulkier EV spread means Heracross is only doing 41% maximum with Megahorn, and with Reflect up, only 20%. SD Lucario's Bullet Punch does 22%, and with Reflect up only 11%. Unfortunately, this spread doesn't help it much defensively as without Reflect up, SD Lucario still OHKOs with Crunch every time. It does, however, make countering CB Heracross easier, and Scarf Heracross can only do up to 27% with Megahorn, or 44% with Night Slash.

Note: This could be considered inferior to Gliscor, but this isn't weak to Ice Punch, and remember, Lucario gains that in Platinum. Weezing is better at countering SD Lucario, but it can't counter Flame Orb Heracross with Facade and SD.

EDIT: This handily beats Flame Orb Swellow too, as well as Hitmonlee/Hitmontop, provided you don't attack first, but Reflect, due to Sucker Punch. Just thought I would add threats where he will probably exist. Because most Toxicroak run Dry Skin, this can beat them as well, just Reflect first to avoid Sucker Punch. Same for Nidoking, but LO Fire Blast could hurt.
 
Tingaling said:
I am definitely liking that flygon set, what %'s does it do to a 252/0 T-tar?
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50% minimum, thats what the 16 attack EVs are for. It does 50.00-58.91%. U-Turn also breaks Tyraniboah's Substitutes most of the time.

It's been working wonders on Shoddy, I haven't seen many Lucario today, but as far as being good against Heatran and Tyranitar... wow
 
MKDSJedi said:
Azelf can run a viable Physical set now ^_^ go Platinum tutor moves.
Azelf @ Choice Band
Zen Headbutt
Ice Punch
ThunderPunch/Fire Punch
Explosion

First slot is STAB, second and third slot moves for coverage (ThunderPunch hits Gyarados, Fire Punch hits Steels, particularly Bronzong) Explosion is for MASSIVE DAMAGE.
Other options include Trick (very useful to mess with Blissey), U-Turn (obvious). In which case, 4 moveslot syndrome strikes again =/
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I theorymon'd up a CB Azelf set, but mine ended up looking more like

- Zen Headbutt
- Explosion
- U-turn
- Fire Blast / Fire Punch

Fire Blast is a more useful option than Fire Punch, even with the Choice Band boost, though Fire Punch has a greater chance of 2HKOing Sassy Bronzong and Support Metagross. I feel that U-turn is necessary on the set to scout and to prevent Tyranitar for coming in for free, and with Dugtrio support it can take out Heatran.

I feel that Ice Punch would have greater emphasis if Garchomp were still OU (anything that can revenge-kill Garchomp is useful in my book), but now that it's in ubers, it's really only good for Gliscor (who has a chance of avoiding a 2HKO from Zen Headbutt after Stealth Rock damage), as everything else you would hit with Ice Punch is 2HKOed by Zen Headbutt after Stealth Rocks damage. Likewise, ThunderPunch is not a great reason for those reasons.

skiddle said:
50% minimum, thats what the 16 attack EVs are for. It does 50.00-58.91%. U-Turn also breaks Tyraniboah's Substitutes most of the time.

It's been working wonders on Shoddy, I haven't seen many Lucario today, but as far as being good against Heatran and Tyranitar... wow
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Meaning that it's a rather poor check against Tyranitar, who usually just toss Crunches around, maybe Pursuit or Earthquake if they predict a switch or Lucario/Heatran coming in.
 
Are you serious, Umbarc? Every CBtar I faced flings Stone Edge everywhere. I found it annoying; my old team had three rock weaks and no rock resistance. Maybe it depends on the opponent.

I don't know if anyone else has tried the Flygon yet, but I've been having some fun with it!
 
CB Crunch from Tyranitar still does 26-30% to 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario, so whoever is switching in Lucario to Tyranitar better be damn sure they are sweeping now. Heatran takes 32-37%, if Modest with Choice Scarf and 20 HP EVs, and those variants will lose since Earth Power won't 2HKO 252 HP / 4 SpD TTar, so I don't know why people don't just spam Crunch with Tyranitar...lol, that is what I do. A bulky Heatran, 252 HP / 96 Def, still takes 24-29%, so it loses if its defense is dropped just once.

For the reasons above, I really don't see why people just wouldn't spam Crunch to do decent damage, possibly lowering their defenses, thus forcing some switches, and to destroy Bronzong and other rock resists. So Flygon doesn't seem like a good switchin, especially since if they see you force it out with a Flygon, you better be packing a dark resist(Skarmory or Forretress preferrably, as Heatran doesn't cut it), or else they can predict and easily kill you.
 
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Rotom @ Life Orb
Timid/Modest
6 HP/ 252 Sp At/ 252 Spe
~Rain Dance
~Thunder
~Hydro Pump
~Shadow Ball

Obviously there are other options to run with the new Rotom but this one will be awesome in a Rain Team. Thunder wil have 180 BP from STAB, Hydro Pump 180 from Rain boost.
 
If Flygon is such a bad check to Tyranitar and Lucario, why did people switch Garchomp into these pokemon?

This Flygon is 10% tougher than Garchomp... <_< and it has Roost too.
 
Flygon is fantastic for Lucario, I just don't think it can stand up to the likes of CB Tyranitar, that's all.

EDIT: Not only that, but people prefer offense > defense, in general, and Garchomp doesn't have to invest in defense/HP to be -10% defensive.
 
5 gates said:
Would someone suggest a moveset for gallade? should it still be the same if hes a physical sweep?
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Gallade @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
252 HP / 64 / 192 Spe
- Will-o-Wisp
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat / Brick Break

Kind of bulky. EVs basically ripped of the analysis, but swapped HP and ATK around. The idea is to Will-O-Wisp an incoming wall like Bronzong, and set up, allow Burn to do some residual damage before attacking. I don't put Hypnosis here because either A. You should have slept something earlier in the battle, or B. then enemy expects it and has a Lum. The slight accuracy could be an advantage too.
 
Tracker said:
Gallade @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
252 HP / 64 / 192 Spe
- Will-o-Wisp
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat / Brick Break

Kind of bulky. EVs basically ripped of the analysis, but swapped HP and ATK around. The idea is to Will-O-Wisp an incoming wall like Bronzong, and set up, allow Burn to do some residual damage before attacking. I don't put Hypnosis here because either A. You should have slept something earlier in the battle, or B. then enemy expects it and has a Lum. The slight accuracy could be an advantage too.
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Hypnosis is not going to see any more play except on things like Bronzong and Milotic

Screw you 60% accuracy, screw you...
 
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Golduck
Moveset Name: Physical Scarfduck
Move 1: Waterfall
Move 2: Zen Headbutt
Move 3: Cross Chop/Brick Break
Move 4: Ice Punch
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Cloud Nine
Nature(s): Adamant
EVs: 26 HP/252 attack/0/0/0/232 spe

This Golduck can work both as a lead and a late game sweeper. Golduck's attack stat is not that bad; it can utilize it well for a sweep, even with only a few options. The given EVs, when combined with a choice scarf, allow Golduck to hit 395 speed and outspeed all of the non-scarfed threats in UU except for Electrode. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Waterfall is for basic STAB. Zen Headbutt allows Golduck to hit the prominent fighting types in UU with a super effective hit. Ice Punch gives a super effective hit against Swellow, Altaria, and the grass types of UU. Cross Chop or Brick Break is up to preference of power versus accuracy and can hit Clefable (and Kecleon I guess) Super Effectively (I hate Clefable). Together, these moves cover almost all of the common leads in UU and many of the other pokemon in the tier. If I'm correct, you can get at least neutral damage on every pokemon in UU with correct prediction.

As for other options, there aren't many. Body Slam can be used if you really want to paralyze something, I suppose. If you want to use it in OU, give it 252 speed to tie with CS Heracross (if you want to risk that). One of the major reasons to use this in OU is that it can cripple Sandstorm Teams and Hail Teams with Cloud Nine.

Some problems that are unavoidable: Golduck has no physical options to take out bulky waters one on one, and certain physical walls are harder to take out with physical duck than special duck; however, some special walls are easier as well.

That's my first creative moveset. If people show interest I'll add in some calcs tomorrow. Note that this is all in theory, I haven't been able to test it yet. Also, if I break some sort of rule I'll fix it, just tell me.

EDIT: Fixed the typos in the EV spread x|
 
Forretress @ Leftovers / Shed Shell / Lum Berry
Impish - Sturdy

252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef

Spikes
Toxic Spikes / Earthquake
Rest
Sleep Talk


I tried this a couple of times as a lead, back it up with a Spiritomb for Deoxys-S leads and also to spin-block. It can set up a bunch full layers of both easy, owns against sleepleads like Bronzong Gengar and Breloom, and gets the job done against Aerodactyl, Weavile and Azelfs that aren't running Fire Blast. If Gengar is running Focus Blast that can also hurt. But I guess some SpDef EV's might fix that problem. Once its finished spiking though its pretty useless unless you wanna PP stall, so replacing Toxic Spikes with Earthquake might also be the way to go.
 
Wondering what you guys this of this set..

Drifblim
Calm
Aftermath
Leftovers
28 HP / 230 Def / 252 SpDef
-Icy Wind
-Destiny Bond
-Thunderwave / Will-o-Wisp / Knock Off
-Thunderwave / Will-o-Wisp / Knock Off

(Theorymonning) Who said Annoyers are dead? Bring her in on something that is either going to switch out, or wont do significant damage, Icy Wind on their switch out, then proceed with whichever of the 2 annoying moves you choose, Destiny Bond is kinda a final resort type thing for when Driffy is rather low on Health.

Trick could be an option, give her Choice Scarf and use it on something you know is carrying leftovers.

EVS: HP is to hit a even Leftovers number (28 per turn), then i put the rest into the defenses sto lower percent of damage taken. Doesnt need speed because it still hits 196, which if iirc, will outspeed most anything that isnt boosted after they take an Icy Wind so that you can status or Destiny Bond to your hearts content..

as a side note, Salamence that isnt too bulky is 2HKOd, as is Non bulky Dragonites with SR out.

Please note that its 1 in the morning, and I was pondering this throughout the day at work so it isnt perfect, just a rough draft =)
 
Just a thought, Vivi, if you are using Leftovers and Destiny Bond neither ability is helpful; however, Aftermath would probably be preferred since (imo) it is more likely to activate...since you'd have to have leftovers knocked off for unburden to work in this case.

One in the morning here too so pardon me if that didn't make sense xP
 
skiddle said:
...check out this Flygon EV spread.

I know, it's offensively retarded compared to Garchomp, but it still 2HKOs Tyranitar with Earthquake, and OHKOs Lucario. It's 10% tougher than 6/0 Garchomp, and it has Roost too!

Anyways, here is the set.

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Flygon @ Leftovers
Jolly Nature
204 HP / 16 Atk / 214 Def / 76 Spe

Earthquake
Roost
U-Turn
Dragon Claw / Fire Punch / Stone Edge



It's a fairly good scout, thanks to U-Turn, and it can finish off weakened pokemon with Earthquake. Roost keeps it around.

The last slot is up to you. Fire Punch gives you an answer to Skarmory, Bronzong, and Grass types. Dragon Claw is your other STAB move. Stone Edge can hurt Flying pokemon like Gyarados, Salamence and Zapdos if they think about switching in.

It's decent defensive typing gives it resistance to the Edge/Quake combo, as well as Fire attacks. Immunity to most forms of passive damage and Stealth Rock resistance keeps it around longer.

Another option that provides more attacking power is Adamant with 204 HP / 56 Atk / 214 Def / 36 Speed. This hits 275 attack and 245 speed, if you prefer this. It hits a lot harder but you lose the ability to kill Lucario, which is a valuable bonus this set provides.

Here are some damage calculations:

-Tyranitar's 604 attack Stone Edge on Flygon: 36-43%
-Tyranitar's 604 attack Crunch on Flygon: 59-69%.
-Tyranitar's Jolly DD LO Crunch on Flygon: 70-82%.

This attack should be avoided, but you can survive it with health to spare.


-Lucario's +2 Extremespeed: 59-70%.
-Lucario's +2 Bullet Punch: 44-52%.
-Lucario's Close Combat: 67-78%.

The only way Lucario can win is if it Close Combats followed by Extreme Speed, rolling above average damage both times.

-Modest Heatran's Fire Blast: 36-43%
-Modest Heatran's Hidden Power Grass: 28-34%
-Modest Heatran's Hidden Power Ice: OHKO
-Modest Heatran's Dragon Pulse: 73-86%
-Modest Heatran's Explosion: 79-93%

Makes a pretty good switch-in to Heatran if you don't have anything better. Only Hidden Power Ice can take you down.

-Calm Mind Jirachi's Psychic: 36-42%
-Calm Mind Jirachi's +1 Psychic: 53-62%

Those annoying Sub CM Jirachi can be chased off all the time, provided you act quickly! Smart Roosting can ensure you have enough health to do it repatedly.

-Togekiss' Air Slash: 30-35%

This was a pleasant surprise. With Thunderwave immunity and higher speed, you can come in and chase it off, provided you chose Stone Edge or Dragon Claw for slot 4.

-Blissey's 40 SpA Ice Beam: 77-91%
-Donphan's Ice Shard: 36-42%
-Mamoswine's LO Ice Shard: 91-107%

Just in case the situation should ever arise, you can survive weak Ice attacks. You need 254 SpA to OHKO with Ice Beam, 409 to OHKO with Ice Punch, and 762 to OHKO with Ice Shard. For STAB Ice moves, you'll need 169, 272, and 508 respectively.



I'm not trying to be a Flygon fanboy, but after remembering all the times I switched Garchomp into Tyranitar, Lucario and Heatran, I felt it needed to be mentioned, especially since Flygon gets Roost.
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Have you considered switching out Leftovers, for say "Soft Sand" or Expert Belt, or anything else to boost your attack power?

Roost as well as key resistances keep Flygon around, so perhaps ditching Leftovers can give you some valuable 1-2HKOs without sacrificing the Speed.

You could even ditch the Attack EVs altogether and use Expert Belt, as you are most likely going for Pokemon weak to your attacks, (nuetral damage with that Attack score isn't hurting much anyways).


P.S. Add in Gliscor's Ice Fang, and Gengar / Azelfs Explosion and HP Ice.

Cresselia's Ice Beam isn't a bad idea either (and factor in +1 from either Calm Mind or Charge Beam).



@ The Lost One: Why not use Damp?

It gives you another move you can switch in on (and Explosion is common on stuff like Claydol, Solrock/Lunatone, Steelix, Lickilicky, etc.), plus if you or an opponent has Rain Dance up, your Waterfall does more damage.
 
The Lost One said:
Just a thought, Vivi, if you are using Leftovers and Destiny Bond neither ability is helpful; however, Aftermath would probably be preferred since (imo) it is more likely to activate...since you'd have to have leftovers knocked off for unburden to work in this case.

One in the morning here too so pardon me if that didn't make sense xP
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Yeah, I thought about that after I got offline =)
 
Expert Belt is a possibility, I've had a lot of people send in floaty Psychics and the damage boost would be cool.

I'm thinking of removing Dragon Claw for Toxic or something because Dragon Claw isn't doing a whole lot of damage.
 
Roost + Life Orb is always viable on a Bulky Pokemon like Flygon, especially when you have the advantage of being immune to Sandstorm.

Agreeing that Dragon Claw could probably leave this set (despite having near-perfect coverage). I'd prefer Fire Punch, Stone Edge, or Toxic. The former two definately if you take Expert Belt into consideration.
 
I am thinking about making a triple priority Luke (too bad it doesn't get pursuit or technician)

Lucario @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Nature - Lonely / Naughty
Ability - Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA/ 6 Spd

Vacuum Wave
Bullet Punch
Extremespeed
HP Ice / Thunder Punch / Close Combat

Mainly a revenge killer, hitting from both sides with STAB moves

The 4th option is for its counters, HP Ice is for Gliscor, Thunderpunch for Gyara and Close Combat for a powerful STAB option on slower opponents

Expert Belt is to be used only with Close Combat if you want to try to lure a Blissey into thinking your a SpecsLuke (don't use it otherwise, the recoil is worth it)
 
HotPocket said:
The 4th option is for its counters, HP Ice is for Gliscor, Thunderpunch for Gyara and Close Combat for blissey and Tyranitar (I doubt either will come in on a Luke, but it is an option if you fool Blissey into thinking your a specs Luke)
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And how do you suppose I do that? Life Orb recoil will show your opponent that you are running mixed or SD Luke, so unless you are battling a vegetable, I am pretty sure most people will notice these things.

Yet another thing the new Rotom forms can easily counter...
 
I am totally going with Toxic right now.

I got Flygon to survive a TSS stall team all the way to the end, all he had was a Hippowdon without Ice Fang.

He started to PP Stall. "stealth rock! it failed! stealth rock! it failed!"

So now I've determined that Toxic is a must. Dragon Claw coming off of 240 attack doesn't do a huge amount of damage anyways.
 
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