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Skymin Discussion Thread
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Ok, I used a different one and used the actual equation and so, so my idea is in the category of sucks now so forget it.
Life Orb Ninjask OHKOs with X-Scissor if Skymin has no HP EVs, if that is of any interest, although Scarfmin outspeeds it if it doesnt Protect and get a Speed Boost.
Life Orb Ninjask OHKOs with X-Scissor if Skymin has no HP EVs, if that is of any interest, although Scarfmin outspeeds it if it doesnt Protect and get a Speed Boost.
LO ninjask isn't a viable pokemon to argue with, because I could say that LO ninjask OHKO's Darkrai w/ X-Scissor and is faster w/ protect. Therefore, Darkrai is OU, not Uber.
But I usually switch in my metagross or scizor (depending on the team) against skymin, as they are very strong priority users.
Doesn't work. Say I switch in Shaymin-S, not on Mamoswine, of course, I'm not that dumb. I have it in field now. You switch to Mamo, I sub. Since I'm faster, I get to OHKO with Seed Flare. How 'bout that? Ice Shard is blocked by Sub, which you then still get killed by Seed Flare, OHKO. Say you switch in Mamoswine after one of your Pokemon just fainted. All I need to do is to switch to something like Skarmory, right? What can you do? If you got Magnezone, I got Shed Shell. If doesn't work, I'll use Bronzong to Trick Room + Earthquake on you.
If you do that quite often, you'll be worn down by Spikes/Stealth Rock while Shaymin is immune to Spikes, and Stealth Rock can be recovered mostly from 1 turn of Leech Seed and 1 turn of Protect/Sub(that does cost 25% extra though, but it doesn't stack on top of your SR damage since that's recovered). If I have a Spinner, that's even better.
Timid Specs Seed Flare does 82-97 damage to 4 SpcDef EVs Crobat (which will always be Timid). SR damage to 0 Hlth Crobat is 77 (4Hlth takes 78, which is why those EVs are in SpcDef). Crobat 252 with Att EVs does 390 damage min. to a 0 Def. Skymin, a liekly KO on 252 Hlth Skymin (4 Hlth = OHKO). An item boost guarantees the OHKO on any Skymin.
Crobat can swap in on Seed Flare.
BUT...
What if Skymin uses Air Slash or sets up a Sub. A Timid Air Slash off 339 SpcAtt (no item boost) does 139-165 damage. Combined with SR, thats 216-242 damage. Brave Bird Recoil on a 4 Hlth Skymin is 114 damage (assuming Skymin dies). Combined that with the already taken damage and Crobat takes 330-356 damage; he kills himself. What type of counter kills himself to take down what he is meant to be countering?
Even with leftovers in the above scenario (helas 19 Hlth), Crobat only survives if Skymin inflicts the min. damage possible on Crobat with Air Slash.
HP Ice also obviously screws over Crobat.
Oh, and Timid Crobat Specs Sludge Bomb does 356-420 damage to 0 SpcDef EVs Skymin, a full Hlth Skymin is likely to survive that.
It's too bad Heat Wave doesn't do enough to Skymin from Crobat to take it down in one hit, but atleast it's a case for Sludge Bomb... Finally...
"we're" at war with them
cant we just use Attack form deoxys on him? he's much faster unless he has on a choice scarf or quick attack.
but an ice shard should be able to dispose of him if used on a strong enough user, or one that could survive a hit from seedflare if possible
but an ice shard should be able to dispose of him if used on a strong enough user, or one that could survive a hit from seedflare if possible
Bullshit, I'd like to see that. Brave bird is 180 power, crobat has decent attack... its super effective, and skymin isn't excatly bulky. Brave Bird does 65-70% on fucking Bold Celebi.
Deoxys-A is Uber and thus not allowed in Standard play.
You could use Deoxys-E though he can't switch in without risking a 2hko from Air Slash/Seed Flare
Rather run Liquid Ooze to prevent the SubSeed version.
Uhhh...did you even use a real damage calculator for this?
Let's see here:
0 Atk EV Neutral Nature Crobat using Brave Bird on a 0/0 Skymin
88.56% - 104.40%
Please do not present stuff like that without even looking at a damage calculator, because it is very clearly a possible OHKO.
Now let's look at your claim that Crobat can't OHKO Skymin when Crobat has 252 Atk EVs, against a 0/0 Skymin:
114.37% - 134.31%
That's not only a OHKO, that's a bunch of overkill...
How exactly is Skymin going to get a chance to 2HKO Deoxys-S when Deoxys-S is way faster and carries a potentially fatal move, which will kill Skymin before he can pull off the second hit? He can still come in on anything that's not Seed Flare and survive the hit to threaten a OHKO on Skymin. This does not make Deoxys-S a counter by any chance, however, it's still a good check.
AFter battling against this thing... FUCK IT.
It needs to go to ubers ASAP. It's actually worse than Garchomp because Garchomp could be revenge killed quite easily. This thing subs and then theres nothing you can do without losing a pokemon everytime it comes in.
It needs to go to ubers ASAP. It's actually worse than Garchomp because Garchomp could be revenge killed quite easily. This thing subs and then theres nothing you can do without losing a pokemon everytime it comes in.
Simple. In my example Skymin was behind a sub before the deoxys even switched in. So it hits it once on the switch, and then after the sub is broken.
Also Skymin even if no behind a sub can switch out. Meanwhile unless your Deoxys runs recover it can now no longer switch into Skymin.
Ok, I'm starting to wonder why everyone seems to automatically assume that Skymin is going to have a Sub up. First off, it's most likely going to be losing 25% of its health every time it switches in, taking away one of those potential subs. Then, it actually has to successfully get the Sub off, and hope that it stays up. That's another 25% gone. Now it's left with only 50% of its health. If your Sub didn't stay up, you just wasted a huge amount of your health, because the opponent didn't fall for your trick and let you get the free turn to put the Sub up by switching or something.
Good luck doing that more than once in the match, because it's very unlikely to work a 2nd time. I'm sorry, but people really need to stop assuming that Skymin be behind a Sub every time they theorize a potential situation. It just doesn't really work that way in a real battle. The only version that's going to be getting off more than a few subs is the SubSeed variation. That's the most dangerous one IMO. However, if it's not behind a Sub, or hitting a switch-in when it uses Leech Seed, it still faces a potentially fatal hit, or a crippling status. But that's a given anyway, so I'm sure everyone knows that.
Basically, people who are constantly assuming that Skymin will be behind a Sub, except for the SubSeed versions...stop. Not everyone will be naive enough to give you that free turn to get the Sub off unless they're forced to. It is also not the easiest thing to set up a sub and keep it up, so don't always assume it will.
Good luck doing that more than once in the match, because it's very unlikely to work a 2nd time. I'm sorry, but people really need to stop assuming that Skymin be behind a Sub every time they theorize a potential situation. It just doesn't really work that way in a real battle. The only version that's going to be getting off more than a few subs is the SubSeed variation. That's the most dangerous one IMO. However, if it's not behind a Sub, or hitting a switch-in when it uses Leech Seed, it still faces a potentially fatal hit, or a crippling status. But that's a given anyway, so I'm sure everyone knows that.
Basically, people who are constantly assuming that Skymin will be behind a Sub, except for the SubSeed versions...stop. Not everyone will be naive enough to give you that free turn to get the Sub off unless they're forced to. It is also not the easiest thing to set up a sub and keep it up, so don't always assume it will.
Protip for Skymin users: Don't switch it into Hippowdon UNTIL you've determined that it doesn't have Ice Fang.
Seriously, I've had many people switch Skymin in on my Hippo while Stealth Rock was up only to run into an Ice Fang that I threw up in anticipation of a switch. (0 Atk Ice Fang does 77% minimum to 0/0 Skymin.)
It alarms me how often I've done that...
Seriously, I've had many people switch Skymin in on my Hippo while Stealth Rock was up only to run into an Ice Fang that I threw up in anticipation of a switch. (0 Atk Ice Fang does 77% minimum to 0/0 Skymin.)
It alarms me how often I've done that...
Obviously you're going to switch in on Earthquake with Skymin. Just that people try to foolishly set up Subs when they think that Hippo is going to switch, and then it gets broken by Ice Fang. That means they just wasted 50% of their health, and now Hippo can easily switch to something to take the imminent Seed Flare since the Skymin user is not likely to Sub again.
Switching in on Earthquake is easier said than done, apparently. I've had plenty of times when I've fired Ice Fangs on the hunch that SOMETHING was switching in to take the EQ (read: I hadn't seen Skymin yet) and Skymin has come in to eat the Fang quite often.
It shouldn't be that easy, right?
It shouldn't be that easy, right?
Skymin to uber, skymin to uber...
It really kind of annoys me that people just jump to these conclusions, making statements like, garchomp was easier to revenge kill. With all due respect, I personally thought Chomp was perhaps the most difficult pokemon to Revenge Kill, it made it almost impossible because of yachechomp eating up priority ice shards. Either way, the discussion is onto Skymin.
I havn't had much of a problem with it, and i've been on shoddy since the platinum updates quite frequently. I've been experimenting ideas to stop it, and it seems pretty clear that just decent prediction usually gets it. The only varient that really screwed me over was Scarf-Min, which sounds farfetched, but with a spinner it pretty much took down half my team. =/
It really kind of annoys me that people just jump to these conclusions, making statements like, garchomp was easier to revenge kill. With all due respect, I personally thought Chomp was perhaps the most difficult pokemon to Revenge Kill, it made it almost impossible because of yachechomp eating up priority ice shards. Either way, the discussion is onto Skymin.
I havn't had much of a problem with it, and i've been on shoddy since the platinum updates quite frequently. I've been experimenting ideas to stop it, and it seems pretty clear that just decent prediction usually gets it. The only varient that really screwed me over was Scarf-Min, which sounds farfetched, but with a spinner it pretty much took down half my team. =/
Like Shaymin Destroys every one of my Pokemon. Like I can't even CM with a Pokemon or HOPE to stay in because it keeps FCKING dropping the defense two stages. Not one stage, but TWO. 80%? You gotta be kidding me. You don't know how hard it is to kill it. It HAS to go to uber. It just has to. Not only does it have INCREDIBLE speed and Sp.Atk, but look at the moveset/ability. Thats fckin Odee.
Do you even proofread yourself as you post? I seriously think that your comments about this pokemon are not only useless, but completely unfounded.
Are you aware what a shitty attacking type grass is in ubers? Maybe if shaymin keeps dismantling your team you should consider putting on a shaymin counter instead of coming to basically gripe about it in a discussion thread?
For the record, I'm pretty sure smogon is aware of "How hard it is to kill it."
Guys I don't think shaymin is that harsh, really. Ice type attacks are everywhere, just chuck a special scarfer onto your team if you are absolutely terrified of shaymin. A sturdy ice beam to the chops is all that is really required to take it down.
A quick switch to his buddy Heatran will nullify that. <_<
Personally, I don't like having to carry a Blissey or Registeel to deal with it. And i think those are the only ones that can.
My Sleep-talk Zapdos was flinchaxed to death, a supposed counter right?
People say it's a weaker version of Togekiss, maybe, but atleast i can revenge kill a Togekiss with LO Gengar or something, Togekiss is slow and when you have a 60% flinch chance with 127 base speed, its just BS. <_<