-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Lati@s Discussion Thread
- Thread starter RaikouLover
- Start date
i already pointed out in policy review that ipl, however good he is, is a player who is playing in our community and if anything, should be adhering to it, not the other way around. besides, verbal interpretation of our philosophy is only one in a long, long list of unwritten characteristics of the type of battler we want to represent the opinion of our community, and is the entire reason we are never returning to bold voting by itself. i will remind all of you that ipl was pretty much the only battler to make it a point both vocally and in battle personally to actually whore wobbuffet this past summer, whose usage had dropped to an unimpressive #47 even after the tickle set had been introduced. veedrock makes a good point here:
his point is that it is not all about usage or about basing your decision on how much you have seen it. meaning both "my jirachi got flinched 11 times by skymin therefore it's uber" and "it wasn't really used plus i didn't see it that much so it's ou" are not the way people should be coming to their conclusions. ipl proved that wobbuffet was uber by using it to put three accounts in the top five on the ladder or whatever it was, even though he did not want to use it. that kind of proactiveness and initiative is indicative of the kind of person we DO want to represent our community. if you read our philosophy more closely, you'll find that "demonstrates a commitment and knowledge of the inner workings of Pokémon" and "there is often no substitute for experience" are both directly applicable to ipl's actions with wobbuffet this past summer before there ever was a suspect test process.
which brings me to another point i evidently have to make again: i had to plead with the community to use tickle wobbuffet. i had to make the thread pointing out the moveset i'd seen in practice because i then realized how broken wobbuffet really was, and i knew that, since smogon did not have its own server at the time and wobbuffet's usage had steadily dropped over the last three months, there would be no other indication to colin to ban wobbuffet on the official server where smogon and pretty much everyone else played. everyone but...me. i didn't play, and rarely do now, but have obviously indicated that i "know what i'm talking about" regardless of willingness to whore the ladder.
chris, the way we plan to screen votes now requires an objective indication of involvement in the community. it also requires a player to make the pertinent marks in battle. the player who's joined in november of 2008 but makes marks of 1847/40 has every right to vote as myself, who has impacted this community forever, influenced the philosophy and for all intents in purposes invented the suspect test process. but i don't really feel the need to apply for special voting privileges because i respect the need for objective requirements and don't bitch about them, because i realize that this isn't just about one person and that the objective requirements set have been set for a reason.
and finally, don't call our reasoning "dumb", chris...seriously? i even have to point that out at this juncture?
Well, anyway, this looks good to me and I'm really excited about it, especially about testing out a CM Latias set (what can I say, I have a fondness for bulky pokemon that run boosting and recovery moves).
Also, I've some questions about the lower-tier explanation paragraph, mainly, how are they judged? I mean, you tell of consistency and clarity of thought, but are there any specific criteria, like used it for X amount of battles, or played for X amount of hours? Also, on clarity of thought, is that only explaining your view and not contradicting yourself or will there also be a...oh, I dunno...reasonable, for lack of a better word, to a point (like, for example, nothing such as "well, Latias is red so it's clearly Uber"), and if so, how do you judge that?
Also, I've some questions about the lower-tier explanation paragraph, mainly, how are they judged? I mean, you tell of consistency and clarity of thought, but are there any specific criteria, like used it for X amount of battles, or played for X amount of hours? Also, on clarity of thought, is that only explaining your view and not contradicting yourself or will there also be a...oh, I dunno...reasonable, for lack of a better word, to a point (like, for example, nothing such as "well, Latias is red so it's clearly Uber"), and if so, how do you judge that?
Has anyone even brought up the potential of Sub Roost Latias?
It allows you to scout the usual pursuit users without relying on protect, so you won't be in an (incredible) world of hurt when that Tyranitar DDs up on you. You could either Roar it away or otherwise just get some damage in before going down(or setting up a reflect). Toxic Spikes would only guarantee you come out on top most of the time
It allows you to scout the usual pursuit users without relying on protect, so you won't be in an (incredible) world of hurt when that Tyranitar DDs up on you. You could either Roar it away or otherwise just get some damage in before going down(or setting up a reflect). Toxic Spikes would only guarantee you come out on top most of the time
I acknowledge that IPL was one of the few people that actually tried out Wobbuffet on his teams and that his vote in that was one of the few truly informed ones.
The reason I called it "dumb" (I have got to start using less retarded words) was because the stated reason for it was to become familiar with Smogon philosophy and the way we do things, which I thought was one of the things the application would prove, thus it seemed redundant.
Regardless of IPL's contribution to the community with the Wobb vote, the vote for Shaymin was still a little sketchy. A more extreme example would be if, say, someone whored the ladder with Latios, won all the time, then said they're only voting it Uber because it is blue. Obviously IPL's vote makes more sense than that, but neither seem to adhere to the philosophy of Smogon.
The reason I called it "dumb" (I have got to start using less retarded words) was because the stated reason for it was to become familiar with Smogon philosophy and the way we do things, which I thought was one of the things the application would prove, thus it seemed redundant.
Regardless of IPL's contribution to the community with the Wobb vote, the vote for Shaymin was still a little sketchy. A more extreme example would be if, say, someone whored the ladder with Latios, won all the time, then said they're only voting it Uber because it is blue. Obviously IPL's vote makes more sense than that, but neither seem to adhere to the philosophy of Smogon.
Articanus, I have thought of it multiple times. It would make a very good wish passer or CM user.
That's potential sig material...
Exactly why I'm not ranting endlessly about the decision. The Skymin vote was whack and luckily recognized by the staff. That should be avoided with Lati@s.
The underlined part is what I've been trying to emphasize since the start of the topic!! Bulk+Boost+Recover= Pwn'd. It's so similar to Jirachi, just stronger and bulkier specially (physically, Jirachi probably wins out; Jirachi's typing is also better). I've been using Superachi (with adjustments) on every team I've run so far because it wrecks so much hell and works wonders. Latias will be a great replacement (not that I don't love Jirachi, but Latias looks to be a better canidate).
Latias' offensive capabilities were completely overlooked because of Latios.
Wait...I see where this is going. ._.
I'm a fan of 4 HP/252 Defense/252 Spe Timid with CM/Recover/Dragon Pulse/Surf @ Life Orb. Plenty of power, tough to take down, and Dragon Pulse/Surf is flawless coverage.
Because Latias is clearly awful offensively :-(.
Base 110 Special Attack is still looking pretty good with Latios out of the picture. I mean you don't even have to run Bulky sets for Latias. I'm going to try the Latios sets with Latias (obviously minus the dragon dancer). Plus, I also thought of some cool shit. Remember, Latias has the same special attack as freaking Salamence:
Latias @ Life Orb
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
*Draco Meteor
*Thunderwave / Surf
*Reflect
*Recover
Idea just came to me today. Switch in on Zapdos or some shit, Thunderwave the switch-in so that your faster, then whomp it with a full power Draco Meteor. Rinse and repeat. Meh, haven't tested it yet.
Latias @ Life Orb
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
*Dragon Pulse
*Surf
*Calm Mind
*Recover
Any takers (I know its yours SDS, but changing up the EVs).
i've thought about this as well, but really how do you enforce the item ban on scope lens?
i guess it'll still be up to the honor system, but Life Orb/Leftovers will be good giveaways
Scope lens is banned?
And in reality, it is impossible to enforce, unless you check teams when "trading" afterwards before they log out just to be safe.
well obviously only for battles that include the hax item clause, but that doesn't really change our answers.
chance item clause, sorry.
well, i guess it's different on the other sites i've used before. i've always understood it to include scope lens (and zoom lens as well).
admittedly, i don't really battle on shoddy, but i do recall not being able to attach a zoom lens the last time i was making a team, so i just assumed scope lens was included.
not our problem, sorry
Well comparing to Soul Dew, Scope Lens would be the least of the worries. Then, there's Lati@s that use Light Clay or Expert Belt or Lum Berry? You can't just judge that item being always Life Orb or Leftovers.
Jump, that maybe true, but the game is almost literally based around our tier system. Negleging it may create huge dismay among people who battle more on WiFi than Shoddy, in those uncontrolled environment. I don't support just banning certain ITEMS, so I don't see why not test them without the Soul Dew Clause (although the results would be quite obvious.)
i didn't mean to imply "well leftovers and life orb will give it away, don't worry"
i just meant that they will be good indicators and otherwise, it'll be pretty difficult.
Simple answer: we won't.
We can't regulate Wi-Fi, so it's up to the user to find out if their opponent is cheating. Just run calculations, if they seem a little high and your opponent can switch moves, they may be holding Soul Dew.