The New Face of UU

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TVboyCanti

Notice: The UU ladder has not been updated to reflect the new UU tier, so if anyone wants to play "new" UU on shoddy, you will have to use the unrated battle finder to do so. It should be on the right side of the shoddy window and look like this.

UsersIBattlesIFind

LadderIUnrated
---------OUv
..................v
..................v
.............BL

This will make it a lot easier for everyone to find battles without having to ask for one in the main chat. Use the BL find tab instead of the UU one, this will also ensure that you don't get into a battle with someone who is ignorant of the changes to UU.

According to this thread in policy review, Smogon plans to merge BL and UU together in January once the new OU list is released, as well as allowing all NFEs into UU. This will allow for the NU, UU, and BL tiers to be consolidated into two solid (and hopefully playable) tiers, UU and NU, with a small faux ban tier, hopefully less than 5. This has me really excited as the UU tier has been really stale as of late, with the likes of clefable steelix and weezing dominating the metagame (not the coolest pokemon in the pokedex). With the flood gates being opened, hordes of previously unplayable fan favorites like torterra, typhlosion, espeon and more will have their own tier to play around in. I'm hoping that this will reinvigorate UU and get more players interested.

Originally Posted by Fat RB Golbat
1) For the first step, we will begin the test. This involves an announcement in Stark and a news story on the front page, as well as Doug editing the ban list on shoddy to allow all NFEs, and Current BLs (with the exception of the Appliance Rotoms) in UU.

2) People play the new UU during this test. This test is tentatively scheduled to last 6 weeks. Players will try to meet the 1655/65 mark to vote

2a) In the event that during the first part (only the first part) of this test, there is a pokemon that is centralizing the new UU to the point that it is obviously broken, assuming their are any, then it will be remove as soon as possible.

3) Discuss the current metagame development in the Metagame Analysis Forum. People will discuss which Pokémon are the most problematic, and at the end of the current testing period, the most noted Pokémon will be taken into account.

4) At the end of each suspect period, we have a voting thread for each of the pokemon that have been deemed suspect in Suspect Test Vote (or maybe make a subforum for UU suspect only?).

5) Move the pokemon that were voted BL out of the UU tier. Continue doing steps 3-5 for 4 weeks until we reach a stage where either a) no pokemon are found to be suspect for voting or b)every pokemon is voted to be UU

6) After step 5, test the last 4-5 BL pokemon on the manner that the OU suspects are tested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat RB Golbat
OK, here is how i see it to be possible

During the 6 week test, we choose the suspects within weeks 2-3

We extend the 3 week test to 4 weeks, and decide the suspects during week 2.

These are the current plans to deal with the UU metagame. They are going to start in January after the new tier list comes out that way any tier list changes don't effect the testing in the middle of the first, and arguably, most important round.
Click to expand...

To kick off the new UU, I'd like to get some pre-meta discussion going on how the new UU might look, what pokemon will become stand outs, which currently UU pokemon will survive the merger, and which pokemon could possibly be banned.

Here's the current BL list from smogon:

abomasnow
ambipom
arcanine
azumarill
blaziken
charizard
crobat
entei
espeon
exeggutor
feraligatr
floatzel
gallade
gardevoir
hariyama
honchkrow
lickylicky
ludicolo
magmortar
marowak
medicham
mesprit
milotic
mismagius
moltres
pinsir
porygon2
raikou
rampardos
regice
regigigas
regirock
registeel
roserade
sceptile
shaymin
slaking
slowbro
slowking
smeargle
spiritomb
staraptor
tangrowth
tauros
torterra
typhlosion
umbreon
ursaring
uxie
zangoose


50 pokemon, a very healthy list, about the same size as OU

Notable NFE pokemon:
Chansey
Rhydon
Scyther
Gabite
Kadabra
Haunter
Sneasel
Magneton
Gligar
Machoke
Going over this list, there are two pokemon that look like they might cause trouble for the new UU tier.

Spr_4p_492.png
Shaymins tank set, @life orb, Seed Flare, Earthpower, hp Fire, Rest, has many common checks in OU, including salamence, bronzong, scarftran, dragonite and a few others. In UU and BL however, only Altaria and Crobat can safely switch into shaymins attacks and threaten it without taking 50% from stealth rock. Seed Flares 40% double defense drop makes special walls iffy, Natural Cure makes it difficult to shut down with status, and NCRest added to its bulky defenses make it tough to faint outright. Shaymin could become a real problem but it certainly deserves to be tested.

After testing this in the new UU, my new thoughts are thus: Shaymins offensve power is great, but with 2 or more of stealth rock, toxic spikes, spikes and hail being active in every UU match, +Life Orb damage, shaymin has enough bulk to switch in, attack, rest, switch out and thats it. Shaymin definitely wont be sweeping in this metagame.

Spr_4p_480.png
Uxie looks like it will be really annoying with dual screen, stealth rocks and some other support move. Yawn for phazing and Imprison as a pseudo taunt agains other stealth rockers and screeners. Other support options include toxic, rest, rain dance, sunny day, knock off, trick, trick room, thunder wave, memento. This thing is diverse.

Currently testing all of Uxies possibilities

Spr_4p_460_m.png
Not so much a power issue here, but traditionally UU is an enviroment that excludes auto-weather users, allowing rain and sunny to be more viable. This could also be overcentralizing with no fully evolved auto-sand users in BL (hippopotas), making Obamasnow uncontested as an auto-weather inducer. This one will probably be a play it by ear kind of deal.


So I invite those who are interested to discuss what pokemon and movesets will arise in this brave new world, as well as how old sets will do and what current UU pokemon will remain UU or get bumped down to NU.

This is a thread for theorymoning people so enjoy it.
 
What exactly is that Shaymin set going to do to Moltres? Charizard? Scyther and Pinsir won't like HP Fire but man will they hurt it back, hell, even random stuff like Swellow and Staraptor can do decently well against it.
 
Wow, this looks like it could be really fun. I for one really like using underrated Pokemon like Torterra, Houndoom and Slowbro and this new format could be a chance for stuff like them to actually be used to their full potential. This should open up many people toward the UU metagame.
 
Kittymew said:
What exactly is that Shaymin set going to do to Moltres? Charizard? Scyther and Pinsir won't like HP Fire but man will they hurt it back, hell, even random stuff like Swellow and Staraptor can do decently well against it.
Click to expand...

All of the pokemon you listed are weak to Stealth Rock and/or don't exactly have desirable defenses. Shaymin will be fine (it's not like it was utterly useless in DP OU), and Grass type in general seems to have a lot of representation in "new UU." Roserade, Tangrowth, Sceptile, and Torterra, off the top of my head.

Gabite would barely be useful in current UU, much less the new one, in my opinion. It has Outrage and Attack/Speed stats that aren't awful, but that's about it. I don't see it, or Rhydon for that matter, doing all that much in this metagame. And what does Kadabra have that Espeon doesn't?


Maybe Defensive play will be easier in this metagame? Mesprit, Uxie, Tangrowth, Hariyama, the Regis, and Milotic are notable. Of course, there are plenty of hard-hitters as well, so maybe not so much.
 
I honestly think that this is just what the game needs. A metagame where you can just relax and use your favourites, instead of being super-competetive with only the best Pokemon in OU or Ubers...

Honestly, I see many of these BLs becoming standard Pokemon in UU...


Err... The only problem I see is Scarfed Magmortar. It will just run around outspeeding stuff and leaving large dents in anything, or did I miss something here?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, won't NU be created after UU stabilizes?
 
Right, don't know why I ignored moltres and charizard. However moltres charizard and scyther can only counter it once if stealth rocks is up unless they have roost, and pinsir would have to be scarfed. You could argue that those pokemon would be accompnanied by a spinner, but of course shaymin would counter with a bulky ghost like spiritomb and your back to square one.

max attack modest seed flare does 70% and 84% average damage to staraptor and swellow respectively. jolly choice band return is a ohko on 0/0 shaymin for staraptor, but swellow has to kill itself with brave bird to get the job done. These aren't the counters your looking for. Move along. Move along.

As for Gabite, I was just throwing it out there since it has similar stats typing and movepool to flygon who is 39 on the OU list, though I guess they are actually quite different.

Spr_4p_480.png
Uxie looks like it will be really annoying with dual screen, stealth rocks and some other support move. Yawn for phazing and Imprison as a pseudo taunt agains other stealth rockers and screeners. Other support options include toxic, rest, rain dance, sunny day, knock off, trick, trick room, thunder wave, memento. This thing is diverse.


Yes NU will be created after the new UU stabilizes, it will probably look a lot like the current UU with stuff like camerupt and hypno etc. Luvdisc can suck it.
 
Yeah, I've been wanting to attempt UU, but after hearing about this I decided to wait. I don't know if I want to get in as soon as it begins or after it stabilizes. It seems to me that the people that prepare the most for this "dump" will be the ones to succeed early on (and gain big points in the ladder).

I may look into it, but with my internet screwed up so bad I'm struggling to ladder on standard/suspect as it is. It will definitely be hell on shoddy though. Choas will reign.

Will Wynaut be allowed? It's an NFE.
 
TVboyCanti said:
Yes NU will be created after the new UU stabilizes, it will probably look a lot like the current UU with stuff like camerupt and hypno etc. Luvdisc can suck it.
Click to expand...
A new tier will need to be made to accommodate the Luvdics, Magikarps, and what not. The tiers will be

OU (Overused)

UU (Underused)

NU (Never Used)

WTFTIABU (What The Fuck That Is Actually Being Used?)
 
The most worrying thing about this seems to be letting Abomasnow into the UU tier. Hail teams will dominate the metagame - Abomsnow, Walrein and Froslass being the main three. They were already semi-decent in the OU metagame.
 
burnpsy said:
We don't list it as Uber, so it will likely be allowed in UU.
Click to expand...

Erm...

View Ban List said:
Arceus, Darkrai, Deoxys, Deoxys-e, Deoxys-f, Deoxys-l, Dialga, Garchomp, Giratina, Giratina-o, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Latias, Latios, Lugia, Manaphy, Mew, Mewtwo, Palkia, Rayquaza, Shaymin-s, Wobbuffet, Wynaut
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a listed Uber. Gible and Gabite are not. Hence my question.
 
I was gonna post a thread like this in stark on January 2nd or when Doug announced the stats and X-Act the new tier list changes.....

But anyways, Many of the current Pokemon with higher base stats (Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Shaymin, Mesprit, Uxie, yes i named only high legendaries, so sue me) Are more useful as walls which leads me to believe that when New UU starts, it will be very stall heavy at first. To counter this, many hail teams will be used to counter this as Most of the walls i mentioned have no way of healing outside of rest and leftovers. Most of these teams will have some type of Toxic Spikes support (Roserade!) which means that the early stages of New UU, in my best guess, will be a war between weather Hail teams or Stall teams win.
 
RB Golbat said:
I was gonna post a thread like this in stark on January 2nd or when Doug announced the stats and X-Act the new tier list changes.....

But anyways, Many of the current Pokemon with higher base stats (Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Shaymin, Mesprit, Uxie, yes i named only high legendaries, so sue me) Are more useful as walls which leads me to believe that when New UU starts, it will be very stall heavy at first. To counter this, many hail teams will be used to counter this as Most of the walls i mentioned have no way of healing outside of rest and leftovers. Most of these teams will have some type of Toxic Spikes support (Roserade!) which means that the early stages of New UU, in my best guess, will be a war between weather Hail teams or Stall teams win.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. And nice pun thar.

I guess we can take from this that abomasnow will indeed by included in the new UU. If recoverless stall does indeed become popular, this will lead to more setup-less offensive teams (choice items and life orb) to slowly dent away at the BL walls.
 
RB Golbat said:
war between weather Hail teams or Stall teams win.
Click to expand...

Or you know... semi baton pass teams with Blaziken that completely destroy both! (and a team that destroys that one and so on...)

Seems quite interesting to work with mid-range (powerwise) pokemon on a practically new metagame, I expect LOTS of different things for quite a while.

I just hope that Stealth Rock and Hail dont just plague and are more team choices rather than necessities.
 
burnpsy said:
I honestly think that this is just what the game needs. A metagame where you can just relax and use your favourites, instead of being super-competetive with only the best Pokemon in OU or Ubers...
Click to expand...
That is either every metagame or no metagame. UU and NU will be no different than OU in that they will likely have approximately similar levels of centralization.
 
i see a potential problem with the regis.

regice: 100 sp.att, 200 sp.def, 100 def
regirock: 100 att, 200 def, 100 sp.def
registeel: 150 defences but only 75 att &sp.att

Unlike Cloyster, Regirock can take a few special hits as well. Regice is probably gonna become THE special wall of UU, with that monstrous sp. def.

Registeel doesn't seem a problem, but the other two might just centralize UU like Garchomp did in OU.
 
Hopefully, Flygon's being booted to OU in the January OU list. I'd hate to have to deal with Scarfgon.

All I have to say currently and at this time of night is that I'm really pumped and excited that there's finally a BL ladder (even though temporary for testing purposes) and that I prepared a team that seems ready to deal with (no offense) noob-fancied Pokemon like the high legends mentioned by RB Golbat and starters, though I'm guilty of using one of them myself. :)

No one's discussing the viabilities of current UUs yet? Bah.
 
I think Spiritomb may seem some increased usage during the testing period since most of the extremely hard-hitting pokemon have already been placed in the OU tier while Spiritomb has more than enough defenses to cover almost all threatening sweepers included during the testing. Of course, this is just theorymon on my part, so feel free to prove me wrong...
 
Erazor said:
i see a potential problem with the regis.

regice: 100 sp.att, 200 sp.def, 100 def
regirock: 100 att, 200 def, 100 sp.def
registeel: 150 defences but only 75 att &sp.att

Unlike Cloyster, Regirock can take a few special hits as well. Regice is probably gonna become THE special wall of UU, with that monstrous sp. def.

Registeel doesn't seem a problem, but the other two might just centralize UU like Garchomp did in OU.
Click to expand...

Your forgetting that what made regice less than viable in OU is still present in UU, which is stealth rock and no recovery move. Chansey will also be present to compete with Regice. Regirock has plenty of pokemon that can stop it on the physical side like torterra, hariyama, sceptile and others. It's weakness to ground and fighting and lack of a recovery move put in much the same boat as steelix, who can also take neutral special attacks as well as regirock can. And remember, the only way to get auto-sand in UU is to use hippowdons prevo.

On the other hand, one of the dominant attacking types in UU seems to be grass, which would make registeel quite viable.
 
Erazor said:
i see a potential problem with the regis.

regice: 100 sp.att, 200 sp.def, 100 def
regirock: 100 att, 200 def, 100 sp.def
registeel: 150 defences but only 75 att &sp.att

Unlike Cloyster, Regirock can take a few special hits as well. Regice is probably gonna become THE special wall of UU, with that monstrous sp. def.

Registeel doesn't seem a problem, but the other two might just centralize UU like Garchomp did in OU.
Click to expand...

For starters, saying they'll overcentralize just like Garchomp seems to be an exaggeration. I don't think anything will get to that level.

As for tanking with special defense.

Regice max positive SpDef: 548
Regirock max positive SpDef (Sandstorm included): 492

Regice has a slight lead over Regirock. Hippopotas plus Regirock equals THE great wall of UU because it can also take physical hits like a beast. With Curse on Regirock, good luck breaking that down.
 
With perma-sandstorm Cradily would also be a beast. However, this, along with Regirock, would be balanced by the fact that unless you want to dedicate moveslots to Sandstorm, you need to include a very weak NFE on your team.
 
TVboyCanti said:
Your forgetting that what made regice less than viable in OU is still present in UU, which is stealth rock and no recovery move. Chansey will also be present to compete with Regice. Regirock has plenty of pokemon that can stop it on the physical side like torterra, hariyama, sceptile and others. It's weakness to ground and fighting and lack of a recovery move put in much the same boat as steelix, who can also take neutral special attacks as well as regirock can. And remember, the only way to get auto-sand in UU is to use hippowdons prevo.

On the other hand, one of the dominant attacking types in UU seems to be grass, which would make registeel quite viable.
Click to expand...

I never meant that Registeel would be a problem. But yes, i forgot that Grass is a popular attacking type in UU.

Chansey can't take a physical hit, unlike Regice.

Steelix needs EV investment to take those hits. If Regirock invested in Sp. def, it would take special hits slightly better.

And about recovery, doesn't RestTalk work well on regice/regirock?
 
Tleilax said:
With perma-sandstorm Cradily would also be a beast. However, this, along with Regirock, would be balanced by the fact that unless you want to dedicate moveslots to Sandstorm, you need to include a very weak NFE on your team.
Click to expand...

A similar situation came up with the idea of lowering uber level caps so that their stats are not so uber and they can compete in OU. It was made clear that even at a cap of level 1, people would still use Kyogre. The ability easily makes up for the near uselessness of the pokemon. Infinite turns of weather versus 2-3 moveslots across your teams spectrum to set up a 5 turn weather effect isn't worth it (especially when those pokemon that would need to give up a moveslot need that moveslot).

I'd run Hippopotas if I wanted sandstorm period. Of course, people are talking big about hail, so a way to deal Abomasnow would be necessary.
 
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