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np: Latios - "unban me"

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It's really early in the test, but Latios hasn't shown itself to be overpowering so far. I haven't seen too many Calm Mind sets, but Choice Specs Latios is everywhere and has a seriously powerful Draco Meteor. However, with Blissey being everywhere and Steels being all over, it hasn't caused me too many problems.

Tyranitar, Weavile, and Magnezone have been on a lot of teams so far, though with Latios being weak to Pursuit and how many Steels there are it's not too much of a surprise.
 
So far Latios is playing very similarly to Latias. It might be that people just aren't used to the differences yet, but so far I haven't seen it do anything that Latias can't do; most Latios I have encountered are running defensive CM sets. I really want to see the power of mixed DD Latios, as this is really where it differs from its sister.

Like many people, I'm sure, I just replaced Latias on my suspect team with Latios. It has been playing exactly the same (though that could be because I EV'd it to have similar stats).

At this point I do not see how Latios could logically be voted Uber, considering that Latias was voted OU!
 
Yeah, I had a little rant in the Latias thread about how her being played offensively would lead to a deja vu feeling and create a massive bias for Latios to be in the same tier just because they're "the same." I hope it doesn't come down to that... (not saying he should be uber, but if he's OU it shouldn't be because he's the same as Latias).

I love how everyone is getting different results. lol
 
I ran a all-offensive CM set Latios with Refresh. 6-0ed a team with 4 cms, but eh after that one win, it has done nothin much.

I made another team for anti-latios and anti-steel which worked great. Too little info to judge yet, but i hate that there is not much creativity behind alot of teams.
 
TAY said:
So far Latior is playing very similarly to Latias. It might be that people just aren't used to the differences yet, but so far I haven't seen it do anything that Latias can't do; most Latios I have encountered are running defensive CM sets. I really want to see the power of mixed DD Latios, as this is really where it differs from its sister.

Like many people, I'm sure, I just replaced Latias on my suspect team with Latios. It has been playing exactly the same (though that could be because I EV'd it to have similar stats).

At this point I do not see how Latios could logically be voted Uber, considering that Latias was voted OU!
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I'd agree with this based on what I've played of it. The CM sets beat Blissey easier and Latios hits Scizor and Tyranitar just as hard with Surf as a Latias using Modest but otherwise they are basically the same thing offensively (Mixed DD set might change that). So honestly if Latias wasn't found Uber on the offensive merit Latios won't either. The Dual Screen Memento set is the only one that could be deemed a reason for it to be sent to Ubers for the support characteristic.
 
I've started playing the suspect ladder again. The first thing I've noticed is that you still have to wait 10-12 minutes to get a battle, let's hope that people start to play the suspect ladder more... About Latios, I'm using the same specs set used to test Latias, and I've noticed that the 20 more special attack points he has over Latias, make him less counterable by some steels. Even scizor is almost always 2hko'ed by dragon pulse. Metagross takes a minimum of 33,52% which means that he can't switch in more than once while latias usually could at most 4hko with the same specs dragon pulse.
 
kd24 switched in Latios (lvl 100 Latios ♂).
stingerbrg switched in Skarm (lvl 100 Blissey ♀).
Pointed stones dug into Skarm.
Skarm lost 12% of its health.
Latios used Draco Meteor.
A critical hit!
Skarm lost 75% of its health.
stingerbrg's Skarm fainted.
Latios's special attack was harshly lowered.
The sandstorm rages.
Latios is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Latios lost 6% of its health.
Click to expand...

i found this somewhat humorous lol

anyway, the biggest threat so far is specs latios. I have been using it to some success after seeing how the calm mind version is pretty pathetic with how easily its stopped. With Stealth Rock support, a lot of Latios' "counters" can be 2hkoed pretty easily with surf / draco meteor.

i tried dd / draco meteor / earthquake / hp fire latios and wasnt too impressed, even though i thought it would be a dominant set.

basically, if you are running triple dragon with kingdra + mence, it works pretty well, as you dragon dance, luring in their physical dragon counter and then draco meteor for a ko. hp fire is for steel-types like skarm and forretress. but as it turns out, blissey still stops dd latios and teams usually have more than 1 dd counter which is extremely annoying to pulling this off. priority is extremely annoying to latios as well, sucker punch, shadow sneak, and ice shard all be super effective, with a strong bullet punch being able to 2hko as well.

i have noticed everyone and their uncle using bulky ground-type leads such as swampert and hippowdon. right now, my strategy is the same, explode off the bat and ohko them before stealth rock comes up. my main sweeper to my team is also stopped cold by physical ground-types, so koing them from the start is extremely helpful.

i really have no idea what is causing this big surge in defensive ground-type leads though lol.

believe it or not, i almost lose to a cradily today on suspect ladder, and if it wasnt for scizor, i would have certainly lost. toxic cradily is a great counter to latios and stops a lot of other bulky pokemon.

i have definitely seen a surge in toxicers, it seems like everyone is using some pokemon that knows toxic. this is probably the best way to stop latios, but i have been comfortable just revenge killing them.

what i hate about hp fire latios is that it goes to 349 speed, meaning if another latios or even a specs gengar comes, you are screwed.

the momento screen set is kind of dangerous but I have only seen it once and i was able to stop it. Latios not getting taunt sucks x[

i find this latios metagame to be interesting a more fun than the latias metagame. the fact that they play the exact same way probably has given people different ideas and strategies than just using steel/steel/steel/dragon/dragon/bliss which is really fun. I have seen a lot of stall involving vaporeon and skarmory.

latios without recover is terrible imo =/, my dd mix set didnt function well without being able to heal (losing 16% health a turn is so terrible and i am basically dead with stealth rock taking damage too) and a cm set without recover dies in a few turns anyway and doesn't sweep like it should. a Specs set without recover is fine though!_!

ill post more when i get into this metagame more
 
You can't ban a team type...

Anyway, specs latios is a beast, as expected. I haven't had many problems handling latios, but that's because I'm using a 2 dragon, 3 steel+blissey team. I have no idea if I could handle the suspect without such a specialized team...
 
Abacus said:
You can't ban a team type...

Anyway, specs latios is a beast, as expected. I haven't had many problems handling latios, but that's because I'm using a 2 dragon, 3 steel+blissey team. I have no idea if I could handle the suspect without such a specialized team...
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Perhaps you should be trying a less specialized team then?

Rather than designing an entire team designed around dealing with the Suspect in question; why don't you design a team that takes Latios into account but does not specialize in countering him? You could even better understand Latios function in the metagame if you didn't attempt to create specialized counter teams. I encourage you to take my suggestion. =)
 
I have to say that dealing with CM Latios is much easier than dealing with CM Latias, mainly due to the difference in bulk. 90 > 80 defense may not seem like much, but it makes those Ice Shards to a whole lot less.

Salamence is more powerful than Latios when it comes to a mixed set, but I think people are forgetting that when you are using moves that lower your attacking stats, you are forced to switch out more often. Seeing how Salamence is weak to Stealth Rock, I have concluded that Latios is far easier to use. Besides, being locked into Outrage with Salamence is just as bad with Latios, as Scizor is going to fuck you up with Bullet Punch anyways.

People really shouldn't be making "specialized" teams for Latios... Most of the things that would normally handle Salamence handle Latios as well, as most of them are slower than Mence, so the higher speed really isn't an issue. I think Latios's best bet is a simple Specs set, as he is quite capable of dealing tons of damage and the only thing he really cares about is Pursuit.
 
I didn't have much luck with specialized teams myself, They're just easily countered when everyone knows what's coming.

However, I tried my normal OU team in Suspect for a bit, so far it's handling things amazingly well. Really, if you can handle Dragons and strong special attackers, it'll be fine. It's not like I've seen any Memento/Dual Screen or Dragon Dancers yet...
 
Diana said:
I didn't have much luck with specialized teams myself, They're just easily countered when everyone knows what's coming.

However, I tried my normal OU team in Suspect for a bit, so far it's handling things amazingly well. Really, if you can handle Dragons and strong special attackers, it'll be fine. It's not like I've seen any Memento/Dual Screen or Dragon Dancers yet...
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I've been seeing Memento/Dual Screen stinking everywhere, and it is a total bitch to deal with.
 
Im sick of people saying latios is uber. Its easy to work around and much easier to stall than latias. Seeing as the specs set and the offensive cm set are both walled by blissey. In comparison latias much more successfully runs a more dangerous mono cm set which is much more capable of demolishing more teams with the correct support especially as it has more bulk and has safeguard and refresh.

Also ban all Dual Screens teams with gliscor as whatever you dual screen with is irrelevant you are likely to get a lot of boosts of and pass with gliscor. This team is entirely unimaginative and not conducive to a healthy metagame. If someone uses this team so they can vote well they are not really using Latios to its full power for one as Latias does this decidedly better due to its bulk and two they are not getting a comprehensive understanding of Latios's potential merely so they can go through the test completely prejudiced so they can vote what they want (UBER) without seeing its true potential.
Discuss.
 
I actually think DS Latios is better for Baton Pass teams, since Memento really screws shit up, meanwhile DS Latias is probably more efficient for offensive teams, as it has the bulk to pull it off, allowing straight forward sweepers such as Infernape and Salamence stick around for a little.

In any case, iKitsune, how many people have told you Latios should be Uber? That is rubbish and without solid backup just ignore them.
 
I've been using DS latios and baton pass gliscor and its pretty good but I don't really think it's latios's fault.

If we really do decide this strategy is broken, I'd rather ban gliscor than latios.
 
Originally Posted by KD24
anyway, the biggest threat so far is specs latios. I have been using it to some success after seeing how the calm mind version is pretty pathetic with how easily its stopped. With Stealth Rock support, a lot of Latios' "counters" can be 2hkoed pretty easily with surf / draco meteor.

i tried dd / draco meteor / earthquake / hp fire latios and wasnt too impressed, even though i thought it would be a dominant set.

basically, if you are running triple dragon with kingdra + mence, it works pretty well, as you dragon dance, luring in their physical dragon counter and then draco meteor for a ko. hp fire is for steel-types like skarm and forretress. but as it turns out, blissey still stops dd latios and teams usually have more than 1 dd counter which is extremely annoying to pulling this off.
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Tbh, KD... what are you thinking lol? Blissey stops DD Latios? Well yeah if your not using a physical Dragon STAB to take advantage of the Dragon Dance... screw HP Fire and use Outrage :-P

Originally Posted by iKitsune
Im sick of people saying latios is uber. Its easy to work around and much easier to stall than latias. Seeing as the specs set and the offensive cm set are both walled by blissey. In comparison latias much more successfully runs a more dangerous mono cm set which is much more capable of demolishing more teams with the correct support especially as it has more bulk and has safeguard and refresh.
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So, your saying that Latias is better because it can beat Blissey? Bullshit. Latios OHKOs Blissey with +1 Outrage. People havent even began to explore Latios' possbilities yet. Only sets I've seen have been the same that you have mentioned, and I must say that SpecsLatios is a fucking terror. What the hell am I supposed to use to switch into it? Defensive Empoleon is garbage, the steels are 2HKOed by Draco or Surf, and everything else is just OHKOed. Any time it comes in, its gonna take one of my pokemon down. And don't give me that "just use Blissey shit," because Blissey IMO is the biggest liability in the game and one pokemon shouldn't force me to use it (especially when it can Trick to make Blissey fodder anyway).

Anyway, I've tried the Mixed Dragon Dancer and the thing is a monster. Much easier to use then Mence thanks to not having to run immediately at the sight of a potential Ice Beam, or the neutering from Stealth Rock. It pretty much just Dragon Dances, nabs a kill with Draco Meteor... Earthquakes a few steels, then finishes with Outrages.

Originally Posted by Fat latios315
If we really do decide this strategy is broken, I'd rather ban gliscor than latios.
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I assume thats a joke?
 
wouldn't That startegy make Latios uber under the support clause? I mean albeit the majority of BP teams are cheap, but this is taking it to another level.
 
I doubt it, since any psychic Pokemon can dual screen (Well, Slowbro only gets LS).

And as already mentioned, Uxie can Momento as well.
 
Hmmm...okay then. I guess it's safe ot say that just becuase it's cheap and easy, doesnt mean it's broken. I get the point, thank you for clearing that up for me.
 
I've had an interesting team in that I chose not to include Latios due to my propensity to run pure physical teams, as well as the fact that not including Latios automatically puts me at an advantage against opponents that are overprepared for said Latios. That said, my team has been doing quite well simply because Latios has no way to get in and cause damage to my team outside of choiced EQ. Between Jolly DDTar, SubDD Kingdra, Scarfed Mamoswine (stupid but cool), and the ever awesome Endeavor Clefable, Latios is a liability more than a boon.

Note that this isn't "overcentralization", but that this is a neat side effect that I didn't expect when I made the team. I have yet to try the team in Standard, but I'll probably hop to soon.

EDIT: Let it be known that Subdra grabs the metagame by the balls. Choiced Latias locked into Surf are setup fodder, it can provide a check to Scizor and Metagross (which are everywhere), and after a DD or two it's capable of sweeping most of the current metagame.
 
As you can see i clearly mentioned in my previous post that latios was not the only capable dual screener encore alakazaam is just as broken imo or any screener for that matter. i am vehemently saying the combination of dual screens + gliscor is broken unimaginative and boring. I am asking for people to stop using this as it is boring!! very boring!!! and not conducive to a healthy or a reasonably diverse metagame in an already overcentralized suspect test).

I also think people who use this method to vote should be unable to do so. Due to the fact it is so hard to beat and also when using it you do not get a comprehensive grasp of the impact of latios. This is compounded by the fact people are merely using the team so they can vote what they want without even doing the test.
Discuss.
 
Arael said:
I just had an idea to use opposing Mementos in my favor, but first I have to know: Is the move blocked by Substitute?
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I've just tested it: substitute blocks the effect of memento but the user of memento still faints.
 
Tbh, KD... what are you thinking lol? Blissey stops DD Latios? Well yeah if your not using a physical Dragon STAB to take advantage of the Dragon Dance... screw HP Fire and use Outrage :-P
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i dunno, i probably should use outrage lol, but that does leave you walled by a lot of things. Personally, i find i just like using dd for the speed and for drawing out ddmences counters (who pretty much are the same as dd latios) and hitting them hard with special attacks.

at the end of the day though, i suppose a pure dd physical latios would work better than dd mix (the thing i had gotten so hopeful for) but if you are using dd physical ... well it then feels like a waste of latios' potential.

stellar has the best suspect team known to man and it pretty much never loses, which is why im number 2 right now on the leaderboard. from all of my battling using this team, i have found that the metagame really isn't different at all from the metagame with latias. so if latias wasnt proven broken, im inclined to think latios will definitely be ou.

on the topic of memento + screen teams... well, i have fought quite a few now, and I must say, I have found them somewhat underwhelming. there are actually plenty of viable strategies to beating it and I have not gotten swept by it once ^_^. time will tell though just how effective these teams will turn out. i ran one myself and ended up hating it, just because it takes up the whole team strategy and if you lose a piece of the puzzle, you lose.

i predict that just like ubers, this strategy will probably be used and frustrate quite a few people, but eventually it will either die down or just be worthless with everyone running checks against it.

edit:
Due to the fact it is so hard to beat and also when using it you do not get a comprehensive grasp of the impact of latios.
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if you honestly believe this, it probably is just your team that needs fixing, not the metagame. the strategy is good yes, but pretty much any team "can" stop it. if your team has a 0% chance of stopping it, its probably your teams fault.
 
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