CAP 7 CAP 7 - Stat Spread Submissions/Discussion

[DougJustDoug]

I have a hard time allowing this pokemon to beat Dugtrio. Dugtrio DEFINITELY should slaughter our Scoutmon. We made it weak to Ground and I pray we don't give it Levitate. If that's the case, then Duggy wins. That's just how it goes. Giving this enough speed to laugh at Dugtrio is overkill. I don't really care about "keeping poor Dugtrio relevant" -- I'm just pointing out that super-high speed is a HUGE asset. If we are going to give this enough speed to handle Duggy, then we really need to nerf other aspects of the pokemon. I don't want to do that. Let Dugtrio get his kill. Duggy can already trap-kill tons of other OU pokemon, and it's not a major centralizing force in OU.

 

[Deck Knight]

I have a hard time allowing this pokemon to beat Dugtrio. Dugtrio DEFINITELY should slaughter our Scoutmon. We made it weak to Ground and I pray we don't give it Levitate. If that's the case, then Duggy wins. That's just how it goes. Giving this enough speed to laugh at Dugtrio is overkill. I don't really care about "keeping poor Dugtrio relevant" -- I'm just pointing out that super-high speed is a HUGE asset. If we are going to give this enough speed to handle Duggy, then we really need to nerf other aspects of the pokemon. I don't want to do that. Let Dugtrio get his kill. Duggy can already trap-kill tons of other OU pokemon, and it's not a major centralizing force in OU.

Hmm.

I can alter the set so Duggy beats it, and it will do basically the same damage.

Non-Duggy beating spread (Calculations are the same. With 192 Atk/88 SA/224 Spe to reach the same stats and outspeed Base 115s, e.g. what it was doing before to Base 120s.):

75/93/81/87/81/118. BST: 535.

PSweep: 147 (Rank 4, Very Good)
PTank: 104 (Rank 0, Average)
SSweep: 138 (Rank 3, Good)
STank: 104 (Rank 0, Average)
ODB: 19.2 (Moderate Bias to Offense)
PSB: 3.8 (No Bias)
Overall: 325 (Very Good)

If the community feels beating Dugtrio is too much, this is what I'm going for. This will never tie with Dugtrio, but will always beat Starmie/Azelf etc.

Defensive Calculations:

Using the outlined 192 Atk / 88 SA / 224 Spe with Naive Nature (in parenthesis, if it gets my theorized Scouter ability):

CB Tar Crunch: 90-105% (59-70%)
CB Tar Stone Edge: 56-66% (37-44%)
CB Tar Aqua Tail: 67-79% (45-53%)
CB Earthquake KOs.

Specs Scyclant Bug Buzz: 25-29% (16-19%)
Specs Scyclant Ice Beam: 52-62% (35-41%)
Specs Scyclant Blizzard: 67-78% (44-52%)
Specs Earth Power KOs (89-105%)
Specs Focus Blast deals 0.

CB Scizor Bullet Punch: 32-39% (21-26%)
CB Scizor U-Turn: 19-22% (12-15%)
CB Scizor Pursuit: 43-52% (29-35%)
CB Scizor Night Slash: 51-60% (34-40%)
Brick Break/Superpower deal 0.

Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt: KO. (77-91%)
Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon: 49-57% (32-38%)
Specs Magnezone HP Fire/Ground: KO (76-90%)
Specs Magnezone HP Ice/Grass: 28-33% (19-22%)
Specs Explosion deals 0.

 

[latinoheat]

BST= 535

I will add damage calculations etc

 

[XIII-Low-Phone]

FEAR ?

 

[Umbreon Dan]

FEAR ?

Looks like a faster Infernape to me, though Scoutmon isn't getting powerful moves like Close Combat, Flamethrower and Nasty Plot, is it?

 

[FiveKRunner]

530 BST


I think that this Pokemon should be fast, very fast. With this speed, a neutral natured scout with 252 Spd EVs will outspeed max speed Infernape. This also ties Weavile and outspeeds everything but the 130 group (Jolteon and friends).

The offensive stats are on the physical side, as they should be with his typing which has a wider variety of key moves on the physical side. While the Sp Att is very low, it's just as low as many other OU Pokemon such as Scizor and Rhyperior.

The high HP allows him to take hits solidly from both sides of the spectrum. The defenses are on the special side though. His typing allows him to resist Rock and makes him immune to Fighting, two attack types that are usually only seen on the physical side, so it's okay for that stat to be slightly lower. Additionally, the high Sp Def helps to serve as a buffer against the likes of special typed Dragon attacks that this guy will be switching in to.

If this guy were to be nerfed, I'd add a bit to Attack in exchange for dropping HP by up to 20 points.

 

[Crafty Veteran]

My starter submission from scratch:

60/100/103/95/103/90

Physical Sweepiness: 140
Physical Tankiness: 114
Special Sweepiness: 133
Special Tankiness: 114
Offense/Defense Balance: 11.2
Physical/Special Balance: 2.7

Total BST: 332 Very Good

~

I wanted to choose a spread that relates to their usual typing. Ghost usually have low HP and steel types usually have high defenses, which mesh really well together so I might it 60/103/103 which is able to survive CB Earthquake from Dugtrio. I made the special defense good also from taking hits from magnezone. I wanted to make the attack and special attack low as possible so it wont be as good. 90 Base speed is too outspeed some threats and most especially magnezone

 

[Leman]

I was thinking something along the lines of: 80/54/85/100/80/111. Total is 510.

ODB: 18.7
PSB: -30
Overall Rating: 286

The speed is just enough to out speed Lati@s, Gengar and Infernape, but it loses to Starmie, Weavile and Aerodactyl. It has decent offense to threaten things with Shadow Ball and other Super effective attacks. 90 is the lowest Atk/SAtk that I think would be useful, since anything lower makes this guy unable to hit anything outside of super effective attacks. I chose SAtk to be the primary form of offense, since that way, he can easily lure out Blissey, and then proceed to U-Turn away, giving something like Scizor a free Swords Dance. Of course the same thing can be done with a decent Atk stat, but there are a lot less Calm Minders/Nasty Plotters than Swords Dancers/Cursers/Bulk Uppers, who would take advantage of this. Defenses were enough to get it the right bias, and still being sturdy enough to take a hit. :D

I had to completely revamp this spread, because of the current direction of the polls. I raised the Attack and Defense by a good amount, to get it above 20 PSB. I bulked up the defenses a bit and lowered the HP, so I could get the right balance and to get a better defensive output, but not making this guy end up a tank. I also lowered the SAtk dramatically, and raised the Atk, as well as a little bit of Speed. (Just about switching the Special and Physical Stats)

New Spread: 71/94/108/57/99/111
ODB: 7.74
PSB: 27.4
Overall: 319
BST: 540

Here it has a higher Physical tankiness, and less Special tankiness, but overall it takes hits pretty similar to the other spread, albeit better. Salamence needs near to max damage with an LO Dragon Danced Outrage to 2HKO, against a 252/252 neutral mon, and that was what I was aiming for on the whole. (The other spread took more damage from this). On the other side, LO Gengar's Shadow Ball fails to 2HKO with 132 SDef EVs and max HP. (The other spread needed a lot more SDef EVs)

 

[polelover44]

I've completely redone my spread. Here's the new one:
85-85-85-85-85-120

Min/Max Stats are as follows
HP Atk Def SP. Atk SP. Def Spe
311 185 185 185 185 248
374 295 295 295 295 372
BST=545

 

[Deck Knight]

The Build Bias poll is still in contention, but this is my fallback for if Physical wins:

75/98/91/82/71/118. BST 535.

PSweep: 156 (Rank 4, Very Good)
PTank: 114 (Rank 1, Above Average)
SSweep: 130 (Rank 2, Moderately Good)
STank: 93 (Rank 0, Average)
ODB: 16.9 (Moderate Bias to Offense)
PSB: 21.3 (Bias to Physical)
Overall Rating: 330 (Very Good)

New EV Spread: 156 Atk / 128 SA / 228 Spe. Offensive Calculations are the same.

I am trying desperately NOT to turn this into a physical sweeper, some kind of physical tank, or give it a pathetically weak defense. The fact this has Ghost Curse helps avert the physical tank part.

Updated Defensive Calculations [Using above EVs, Naive Nature] (Scouter in parenthesis):

Note: These are No Investment calculations (and -SDef Nature). You will have to sacrifice a set of kills in the Offensive Calculations if you want to properly EV to survive a specific attack.

In other words, you have to choose what you want to kill and what you want to survive when you're distributing EVs. E.g. this cannot effectively scout everything at once. It can scout those threats you feel do the most damage to your team and survive that threat's attack and KO back by exploiting their weakness.

Standard CBTar:
Crunch: 81-96% (54-64%)
Stone Edge: 50-60% (34-40%)
Aqua Tail: 61-72% (40-48%)
Earthquake: KO (91-107%)

Standard CBGross:
Meteor Mash: 51-60% (34-40%)
Earthquake: KO (91-107%)
Thunderpunch: 51-60% (34-40%)
Explosion deals 0

Standard (Hasty) SpecsClant:
Bug Buzz: 25-29% (16-19%)
Ice Beam: 53-63% (35-42%)
Blizzard: 67-79% (45-53%)
Earth Power: KO. (90-107%)
Focus Blast deals 0.

Special LO Mixape:
Flamethrower: KO.
Grass Knot (80 power assumed): 24-28% (16-19%)
Hidden Power [Ice]: 21-25% (14-17%)
Close Combat/Vacuum Wave deals 0.

Physical LO Mixape:
Overheat: KO.
Blaze Kick: KO. (76-91%)
Earthquake: 90-107% (60-71%)
Stone Edge: 22-26% (15-17%)
U-Turn: 7-9% (5-6%)
Close Combat/Mach Punch deals 0

Standard LO Salamence with 1 DD:
Outrage: 72-84% (48-56%)
Stone Edge: 39-47% (26-31%)
Dragon Claw: 48-56% (31-38%)
Earthquake: KO.
Fire Blast: KO.
Draco Meteor: 54-64%

Standard (Timid) SpecsMence:
Draco Meteor: 77-90% (51-60%)
Dragon Pulse: 49-58% (32-39%)
Fire Blast: KO
Hydro Pump: 88-104% (58-69%)

Standard (Jolly) CBDuggy:
Earthquake: KO (87-103%)
Stone Edge: 21-25% (14-17%)
Sucker Punch: 35-41% (23-27%)
Aerial Ace: 13-15% (8-10%)

NEW CALCS:

Timid Max SA Rotom-A:
Thunderbolt: 68-80% (45-53%)
Shadow Ball: 57-67% (38-45%)
Overheat: KO (89-105%)
Hydro Pump: 57-67% (38-45%)
Blizzard: 28-33% (18-22%)
Leaf Storm: 33-39% (22-26%)

 

[Sc4rfCh0mp]

I've decided to come up with a bulky scout that can hit well.

BASE STATS

HP: 90
ATK: 100
DEF: 100
SPA: 40
SPDEF:100
SPEED:115

This makes the Ultimate Scout fast enough to scout, but also can hit hard physically and take hits well. Total BST is 545.

Now, for the other ratings:

Physical Sweepiness: 157 (Very Good, Rank 4)
Physical Tankiness: 137 (Good, Rank 3)
Special Sweepiness: 68 (Very Bad, Rank -4)
Special Tankiness: 137 (Good, Rank 3)
Offense/Defense Balance: 7.7 (Slight Bias to Offense)
Physical/Special Balance: 46.4 (Extreme Physical Bias)
Overall Rating: 379 (Very Good)

 

[X-Act]

Well, when the community votes for Physical and Bias to Offense, how can you not give it stats of a physical sweeper, Deck Knight? :(

Here's my second prototype:

HP: 90 (+1)
Atk: 88 (+6)
Def: 90 (+10)
SpA: 65 (-17)
SpD: 80 (=)
Spe: 112 (=)
BST: 525

Physical Tankiness: 125 (Moderately Good)
Physical Sweepiness: 138 (Good)
Special Tankiness: 113 (Above Average)
Special Sweepiness: 102 (Average)
ODB: 5.3 (Slight Bias to Offense)
PSB: 21.6 (Bias to Physical)
BSR: 289 (Quite Good)

This change is to reflect the current build bias polls.

 

[Deck Knight]

Well, when the community votes for Physical and Bias to Offense, how can you not give it stats of a physical sweeper, Deck Knight? :(

Because I'm evil! Bwahahahahaha! [Also it's Moderate Bias to Offense, not 20+]

That and since I want this to be true to the scout concept, its going to be a pretty crappy physical sweeper if it doesn't get the stat-up moves I vehemently oppose on a scout (bar Snatching your opponent's). You can't kill Mence with UnSTAB Ice Punches or Gyara with unSTAB Thunderpunches >_>. Lousy Intimidate.

 

[X-Act]

For the record, my post was made to agree completely with you not wanting a scout to be a physical sweeper. It's very hard to do that though when people vote for 'Bias to Physical' and 'Bias to Offense'!

 

[Deck Knight]

For the record, my post was made to agree completely with you not wanting a scout to be a physical sweeper. It's very hard to do that though when people vote for 'Bias to Physical' and 'Bias to Offense'!

Oh, I know that.

I'm still evil, however. And I finally got around to Defensive Calcs above. Am I missing anything important that doesn't automatically assume half their moveset KOs you? (SpecsZone, etc.) Maybe CB Duggy Calcs.

 

[ferron]

85/85/89/60/95/121

physical sweepiness: 135, rank 3 good
physical tankiness: 120, rank 2 moderately good
special sweepiness: 95, rank 0 average
special tankiness: 127, rank 2 moderately good
O/D balance: 3.6, no bias
P/S balance: 15.5, moderate bias to physical
BSR: 291 quite good
BST: 535


i'll get damage calcs either later today or tomorrow (in other words, depends on when i get out of work today)

 

[Krow]

70 / 95 / 75 / 90 / 80 / 120

Physical Sweepiness: 151 [Rank 4: Very Good]
Physical Tankiness: 94 [Rank 0: Average]
Special Sweepiness: 142 [Rank 3: Good]
Special Tankiness: 99 [Rank 0: Average]
Offense / Defense Balance: 22.9 [Bias to Offense]
Physical / Special Balance: 0.2 [No Bias]
BSR: 322 [Very Good]
BST: 530

Now for my crazy talk and reasoning. Now, this pokemon is a scout, as that has already been pointed out several time. 120 Spe (276 / 339 Neutral) outspeeds most, common OU threats, unless they're scarfed. 70 HP (281 / 344) seemed like a good ammount for an OU scout. Not too bulky, but due to it's typing there is no reason for high amounts of defence. Though I thought that it'd face more special threats than physical. 80 SpD (196 / 259 Neutral) seems enough to cover the Special side, while 75 Def (186 / 249 Neutral) seems to cover Physical. Now, because this is a scout, I thought that it, if have an arsenal of attacks, would have more physical usage than special (Bullet Punch / U-Turn / Shadow Sneak), so 95 Atk (226 / 289 Neutral), seemed better to give actual damage to those attacks, while in case CAP7 gets special moves, 90 SpA (216 / 279 Neutral) would also give them some damage.

No damage calculations, I'm not smart enough to do that and don't have any friends to ask, but please look it over and tell me if I did anything wrong. This is propably just a first draft.

 

[XIII-Low-Phone]

Looks like a faster Infernape to me, though Scoutmon isn't getting powerful moves like Close Combat, Flamethrower and Nasty Plot, is it?

This pokémon would rather scare the opponent to switch, and therefore complete its work scout.
Not overwhelming attack force, just enough to be versatile.


PS: Sorry, but i'm french and i use google"s translator.​

 

[DougJustDoug]

For those of you that are advocating speed higher than 100, I'd like to point out the speeds of every current OU pokemon with 100 speed or better:

Ninjask   	160
Jolteon   	130
Aerodactyl	130
Weavile   	125
Alakazam  	120
Dugtrio   	120
Azelf     	115
Starmie   	115
Gengar    	110
Infernape 	108
Salamence 	100
Zapdos    	100
Celebi    	100
Jirachi   	100
Flygon    	100
Tentacruel	100

The ONLY pokemon with more than 100 speed that has any sort of defensive prowess, is Starmie. Starmie only has 60 HP and has 85 defenses. According to X-Act's calculator, Starmie's tankiness is Average.

Of course Gengar has lots of resistances, so you could argue that it's not a total lightweight defensively, but with 60/60/75 defensive stats and no recovery move, it's not taking many hits from anyone.

Here's my point -- really fast pokemon have really shitty defenses. For those of you that are thinking of giving this 120+ speed, and 80-90 HP, and 80-90 defenses, ON TOP OF the already decided Steel/Ghost typing which gives it 8 resists and 3 total immunities -- I think you are going overboard. Nothing in that speed range has that kind of defensive prowess. I really don't think anyone wants a scout with thin defenses, so something has to give.

I realize that most spreads are limiting the attacking stats. If you look at the list of pokemon above, you will see that all of them can hit pretty hard, except for Ninjask. So, if we make a fast defensive pokemon with mediocre attacking stats, it might not be too bad. But the attacking stats being posted aren't THAT bad. I don't think they are nerfed enough to justify 120+ speed.

115+ speed is "rare air" in OU. For pokemon with relatively balanced stats, it almost never happens. I don't think we should go there either.

 

[Crafty Veteran]

Reading Doug's post, it makes sense. I decided to go with my second scratch but not my final submission. Here is my brand new spread:

55/90/80/80/70/123

Physical Sweepiness: 152
Physical Tankiness: 89
Special Sweepiness: 127
Special Tankiness: 80
Offense/Defensive Balance: 29.4
Physical/Special Balance: 15.6

~

CAP7 has one concern, Dugtrio and trappers in general. With it's typing both Dugtrio and Magnezone have a fun time with it. I wanted to reflect its typing with it's base stat. 55 Base HP is a must paired with 123 Speed. 123 Base Speed is there to outspeed all of it's trappers. It was either taking a hit from a dugtrio and magnezone or outspeeding it. I figured a faster version would be better because Scouting is ruined after it takes hits. Given 123 Speed I gave the base stat for physical and special pretty low and gave the base attack stat respectable.

That's it for now, but I will post more of dmg cal later

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Now I wasn't planning on submitting a stat spread, but I haven't seen anyone with a stat spread I can truly support. Since I don't know how it's physical bias is going to be I made two spreads.

This one is if Bias to Physical wins. I was trying to make it's attack around 110, but the ODB rating wouldn't let me so I stuck with 100. 100 attack isn't sweeper material if you ask me.

Now this one is if Slightly bias towards Physical wins. Lose 5 points in SpD and ATK, gain 5 points in DEF, and 10 points SpA. Everything else is the same. I would do damage calc on both set soon enough...just need some EV spread for it.

Defensive Calculations: No defensive EV in either spread. (Second spread is within parenthesis)

Standard CBTar:
Crunch: 84.05% - 99.00% (79.73% - 94.02%)
Stone Edge: 62.79% - 73.75% (59.80% - 70.43%)
Aqua Tail: 62.79% - 74.09% (60.13% - 70.76%)
Earthquake: KO

Standard CBGross:
Meteor Mash: 52.49% - 61.79% (50.17% - 59.14%)
Earthquake: KO
Thunderpunch: 52.49% - 62.13% (50.50% - 59.47%)
Explosion deals 0

Standard (Hasty) SpecsClant:
Bug Buzz: 19.93% - 23.59% (20.93% - 24.92%)
Ice Beam: 42.19% - 49.83% (44.85% - 52.82%)
Blizzard: 53.49% - 63.12% (56.15% - 66.45%)
Earth Power: KO
Focus Blast deals 0.

Special LO Mixape:
Flamethrower: KO
Grass Knot (80 power assumed): 9.63% - 11.30% (9.97% - 11.96%)
Hidden Power [Ice]: 16.94% - 20.27% (17.94% - 21.26%)
Close Combat/Vacuum Wave deals 0.

Physical LO Mixape:
Overheat: KO
Blaze Kick: KO
Earthquake: 93.02% - 109.63% (88.37% - 104.32%) KO in any regards
Stone Edge: 27.57% - 32.56% (26.25% - 31.23%)
U-Turn: 7.97% - 9.30% (7.64% - 8.97%)
Close Combat/Mach Punch deals 0

Standard LO Salamence with 1 DD:
Outrage: 80.73% - 95.35% (77.41% - 91.03%)
Stone Edge: 53.82% - 63.46% (51.50% - 60.80%)
Dragon Claw: 53.82% - 63.79% (51.50% - 60.80%)
Earthquake: KO.
Fire Blast: KO.
Draco Meteor: 43.52% - 51.16% (45.85% - 53.82%)

Standard (Timid) SpecsMence:
Draco Meteor: 60.80% - 71.76% (64.12% - 75.75%)
Dragon Pulse: 39.20% - 46.18% (41.20% - 48.84%)
Fire Blast: KO
Hydro Pump: 69.44% - 82.06% (73.42% - 86.71%)

Standard (Jolly) CBDuggy:
Earthquake: KO
Stone Edge: 26.91% - 31.56% (25.58% - 30.23%)
Sucker Punch: 35.88% - 42.52% (34.22% - 40.53%)
Aerial Ace: 13.29% - 15.95% (12.96% - 15.28%)

 

[Atlas]

For those of you that are advocating speed higher than 100, I'd like to point out the speeds of every current OU pokemon with 100 speed or better:

Ninjask   	160
Jolteon   	130
Aerodactyl	130
Weavile   	125
Alakazam  	120
Dugtrio   	120
Azelf     	115
Starmie   	115
Gengar    	110
Infernape 	108
Salamence 	100
Zapdos    	100
Celebi    	100
Jirachi   	100
Flygon    	100
Tentacruel	100

theres also strategem at 130, syclant at 115, fidget at 105.

 

[Naxte]

Also in OU, Latias sits at 110 speed, with 80/90/130 defenses. Going out of OU, Mismagius sits at 105 with 60/60/105 defenses and Tauros at 110 with 75/95/70. I do agree that we shouldn't go too far outside 115 speed though, mostly since there's not too much that needs to be scouted at those speeds (Latias is the fastest thing that really needs to be scouted and its at 110).

 

[Goodbar]

Keep in mind that this mon has terrible offensive stabs, and it's likely he won't get much an offensive movepool to begin with, plus he has questionable defensive typing. I think your worry Doug may be that with higher defenses it could end up as a sort of bulky offensive threat, but consider for example aerodactyl. Would giving it higher defenses make it more formidable beyond being a suicide lead? It wouldn't help it get in on many of the threats it could KO still, such as salamence and gyarados. It's still walled by common threats like Celebi, Bronzong, to an extent Scizor and even Blissey. Likewise I think this new mon is already offensively nerfed by his offensive stabs and even 100 base attack isn't too much without boosting items, and while he has a unique and decent defensive typing it's probably not making him too hard to take down, especially when his few weaknesses are very common. So yea, I'd be fine with higher defenses and great speed.

 

[Deck Knight]

Keep in mind that this mon has terrible offensive stabs, and it's likely he won't get much an offensive movepool to begin with, plus he has questionable defensive typing. I think your worry Doug may be that with higher defenses it could end up as a sort of bulky offensive threat, but consider for example aerodactyl. Would giving it higher defenses make it more formidable beyond being a suicide lead? It wouldn't help it get in on many of the threats it could KO still, such as salamence and gyarados. It's still walled by common threats like Celebi, Bronzong, to an extent Scizor and even Blissey. Likewise I think this new mon is already offensively nerfed by his offensive stabs and even 100 base attack isn't too much without boosting items, and while he has a unique and decent defensive typing it's probably not making him too hard to take down, especially when his few weaknesses are very common. So yea, I'd be fine with higher defenses and great speed.

Actually, I'm banking on a fairly expansive offensive movepool (Boltbeam, Grass Knot, Signal Beam + STABs, BoltBeam Punches, Focus Punch, etc.) hindered by the fact the STABs are poor, thus why I want this to be balanced enough to both take and dish hits on one side of the spectrum or the other, but not both simultaneously.

My Matrix would be:

EV for Atk/Def
EV for Atk/SDef
EV for SAtk/Def
EV for SAtk/SDef

Try to EV both defenses and you can't take out threats, try to EV both attacks and you have difficulty taking any hits at all, unless you want to sacrifice a certain amount of speed.