Even though we already have lanturn, I agree that water is a very good choice, although admittedly, not the choice I'll be making.
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CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 3 - Secondary Type Discussion
- Thread starter cyberzero
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Since I'm bored I decided to write the defensive capabilities of the popular type combos being thrown around. I'm somewhat forgetting what resist what, but that's from a lack of sleep. I probably the other type combos into the list later on. Now was this necessary? Probably not, but it beats searching for comments about a certain type combo.
Note: Taking into account of SE/NVE hits on single typed Pokemon hitting single type Pokemon with it's STAB.
Note2: Dual types will be shown by pre-existing pokemon or [] for non-existing Pokemon combo.
Defensive capabilities of Electric/xxxx said:
Offensive capabilities of Electric/xxxx said:
Note: Taking into account of SE/NVE hits on single typed Pokemon hitting single type Pokemon with it's STAB.
Note2: Dual types will be shown by pre-existing pokemon or [] for non-existing Pokemon combo.
Electric + Fire. This Pokemon could abuse both weather effects, and handle common counters that are either Water, or Grass. Additionally, with a 4x Ground resistance, CAP 8 wouldn't be unbeatable.
Moves like Magnet Rise, Discharge and Lava Plume come to mind. With 2 STAB status attacks, this Pokemon could play as a sort of support-sweeper kind of role. Additionally fire offers alot of key resistances: Steel, Ice, Bug, Fire, Grass, while Electric adds a few key Steel and Electric resistances (no one bothers with Flying). With a fair amount of resistances and Weaknesses ([Stealth] Rock, EQ, Water), this Pokemon can definetely allow for a great number of roles without being limited to what a Pokemon of its type would normally do since Electric types and Fire types play a large variety of roles: Think Defensive Zapdos / Rotom - A vs Jolteon, or Defensive Moltres / Heatran vs infernape.
A dual typing that is both unique, and can provide some key STAB to valuable moves in todays metagame can really be key to stopping todays biggest threats as many electric types are aching for good fire moves (Electivire, Zapdos, Rotom-A), but don't pack that STAB that can turn some key 3 or 2 KOs into 2 or 1 KOs to deal with common threats.
In the end, with a type that is not too cheap, and not too weak, CAP 8 benefits from this unique typing. Plus we could call it "Shokoal" (Shock + Coal).
Additionally, with alot of rare abilities flying around, Abilities like Solar Power, Chlorophyll, Color Change, Dust Shield (if Shokoal is chosen as a name, DS seems like a realistic ability for a coal Pokemon) etc. wouldn't seem so farfetchd with such a dual typing. Heck, even Flower Gift seems okay as it could make an interesting use for handling weather effects.
Moves like Magnet Rise, Discharge and Lava Plume come to mind. With 2 STAB status attacks, this Pokemon could play as a sort of support-sweeper kind of role. Additionally fire offers alot of key resistances: Steel, Ice, Bug, Fire, Grass, while Electric adds a few key Steel and Electric resistances (no one bothers with Flying). With a fair amount of resistances and Weaknesses ([Stealth] Rock, EQ, Water), this Pokemon can definetely allow for a great number of roles without being limited to what a Pokemon of its type would normally do since Electric types and Fire types play a large variety of roles: Think Defensive Zapdos / Rotom - A vs Jolteon, or Defensive Moltres / Heatran vs infernape.
A dual typing that is both unique, and can provide some key STAB to valuable moves in todays metagame can really be key to stopping todays biggest threats as many electric types are aching for good fire moves (Electivire, Zapdos, Rotom-A), but don't pack that STAB that can turn some key 3 or 2 KOs into 2 or 1 KOs to deal with common threats.
In the end, with a type that is not too cheap, and not too weak, CAP 8 benefits from this unique typing. Plus we could call it "Shokoal" (Shock + Coal).
Additionally, with alot of rare abilities flying around, Abilities like Solar Power, Chlorophyll, Color Change, Dust Shield (if Shokoal is chosen as a name, DS seems like a realistic ability for a coal Pokemon) etc. wouldn't seem so farfetchd with such a dual typing. Heck, even Flower Gift seems okay as it could make an interesting use for handling weather effects.
Would Electric/Normal be an effective and simple replacement for those who are against having a secondary type? You lose with a Fighting weakness but you gain a Ghost immunity and Normal STAB, which while unspectacular could give a host of reliable moves to fall back on, depending on which ability is chosen.
Ok, hhjj beat me to it, but I was about to add my support to Electric/Fire as well. Defensively, as has been mentioned, it has common weaknesses that keep it from being unbeatable while keeping some good resistances (I particularly like the 4x steel resistance as well as Ice and Fire resistance). It also gives it an automatic immunity to burned status, which is one thing in favor for a physical bias.
Offensively it's also good, covering a lot of pokemon like Gyarados, Scizor, Syclant and others for 4x damage while hitting many others for SE damage like Arghonaut, Kitsunoh, Metagross, Jirachi etc. The fact that quite many Ground or Dragon matchups wall this duo stop it from being overpowered as well, and considering how many Fire-types get grass moves in the form of Solarbeam or Energy Ball, counters like Swampert or Rhyperior and others get dealt with easily. We might of course chose to not go that route, which is fine.
As also has been mentioned, it works well in either Sun or Rain, though Sun is the better choice as it weakens one of its few weaknesses as well as powereing up one of its STABs. And need I say how dangerous this thing could be if paired with one of at least 2 of the allowed abilities so far?
I also liked Electric/Poison, Electric/Ground and I think someone said Electric/Psychic. Particularly the latter deals STAB SE damage on Revenankh and Arghonaut as well as Figit, which can't be a bad thing.
Offensively it's also good, covering a lot of pokemon like Gyarados, Scizor, Syclant and others for 4x damage while hitting many others for SE damage like Arghonaut, Kitsunoh, Metagross, Jirachi etc. The fact that quite many Ground or Dragon matchups wall this duo stop it from being overpowered as well, and considering how many Fire-types get grass moves in the form of Solarbeam or Energy Ball, counters like Swampert or Rhyperior and others get dealt with easily. We might of course chose to not go that route, which is fine.
As also has been mentioned, it works well in either Sun or Rain, though Sun is the better choice as it weakens one of its few weaknesses as well as powereing up one of its STABs. And need I say how dangerous this thing could be if paired with one of at least 2 of the allowed abilities so far?
I also liked Electric/Poison, Electric/Ground and I think someone said Electric/Psychic. Particularly the latter deals STAB SE damage on Revenankh and Arghonaut as well as Figit, which can't be a bad thing.
Alright, cool typings to pair with Electric. Clearly, anything that resists ground would be beneficial. Flying/Electric already exists on Zapdos, so I'm going to nominate both Grass and Bug. Offensively, Electric needs help hitting Ground Types, so Water, Ice, or Grass work nicely there. I'm going to nominate Ice, as nothing of that typing exists and it gets great coverage. Finally, Poison deserves note for the fact that the combination has a huge number of resistances and its only common weakness is a x4 ground.
I am guessing the mods have missed it or not seen it yet, but I'd just like to point out that Atyroki and billymills are discussing Abilities in their posts. It's not allowed in this thread guys, lets stick to discussing the merits of typings instead.
In that vein I'd like to say that I'm quite swayed by Veedrock and GT in the Electric/Water department.
It's a really good offensive typing, being only resisted by Dragon and Grass which are weak to Ice. Since Water types pretty much always get Ice Beam, perfect offensive coverage is achieved.
Electric/Water
Weakness: Grass, Ground
Resistance: Steel(x4), Water, Ice, Flying, Fire
GT's list shows just what a great defensive typing Elec/Water is. 2 weaknesses, neither compounded and 6 resistances is better defensively than Elec/Poison, Elec/Bug, Elec/Grass or Elec/Dragon.
Also, the 4x Steel resist is great for taking on Scizor, Jirachi and Metagross.
Water in comparison to other popular Secondary Types:
I do really like Elec/Bug, but since Electric/Water is SR neutral, has better offensive coverage and more common resists, it outclasses it.
Electric/Dragon is better offensively, but I Really don't want another offensive Dragon in OU.
So comparing the typings on their defensive merits, E/D has 3 weaks and 6 resists as opposed to E/W 2 weaks and 6 resists with one compounded.
Given that E/W also isn't weak to the ever popular Boltbeam, and has a 4x resist, it's easily better than Dragon defensively.
Electric/Poison is awful offensively E/W beats it soundly there. Defensively, E/P has 2 weaks and 6 resists. However, so does E/W. The key difference is that E/P has a 4x weakness whereas E/W has a 4x resistance. Also, it's better at taking Boltbeam And Fire which is better than Poison's best resist which is Fighting.
Think about Electric/Water people! It's great defensively And offensively, leaving us plenty of options on the Style Bias and Ability polls.
In that vein I'd like to say that I'm quite swayed by Veedrock and GT in the Electric/Water department.
It's a really good offensive typing, being only resisted by Dragon and Grass which are weak to Ice. Since Water types pretty much always get Ice Beam, perfect offensive coverage is achieved.
Electric/Water
Weakness: Grass, Ground
Resistance: Steel(x4), Water, Ice, Flying, Fire
GT's list shows just what a great defensive typing Elec/Water is. 2 weaknesses, neither compounded and 6 resistances is better defensively than Elec/Poison, Elec/Bug, Elec/Grass or Elec/Dragon.
Also, the 4x Steel resist is great for taking on Scizor, Jirachi and Metagross.
Water in comparison to other popular Secondary Types:
I do really like Elec/Bug, but since Electric/Water is SR neutral, has better offensive coverage and more common resists, it outclasses it.
Electric/Dragon is better offensively, but I Really don't want another offensive Dragon in OU.
So comparing the typings on their defensive merits, E/D has 3 weaks and 6 resists as opposed to E/W 2 weaks and 6 resists with one compounded.
Given that E/W also isn't weak to the ever popular Boltbeam, and has a 4x resist, it's easily better than Dragon defensively.
Electric/Poison is awful offensively E/W beats it soundly there. Defensively, E/P has 2 weaks and 6 resists. However, so does E/W. The key difference is that E/P has a 4x weakness whereas E/W has a 4x resistance. Also, it's better at taking Boltbeam And Fire which is better than Poison's best resist which is Fighting.
Think about Electric/Water people! It's great defensively And offensively, leaving us plenty of options on the Style Bias and Ability polls.
No we don't have a consensus. We aren't allowed to discuss Abilities in this thread, and cyber and DJD have decided that we choose a typing which then informs our choice of Ability, not the other way around. So, unfortunately the best you can do is gauge opinion in the Concept Assessment thread or on the CAP server.
What merits? What are we even basing those merits on?
I was thinking this myself. The Fighting weakness for Normal STAB and Ghost immune isn't a particularly great trade off in my eyes though. The major appeal was in the general flexibility and movepool options traditionally provided by the normal typing, but CaPs shouldn't be affected by "in-game trends."
I think an offensive water/elec could be good, though I'm poll jumping a bit. Poison caught my eye as being a great typing too. The 4x weakness to ground, I feel, would be _beneficial_ (well not really) to the Pokemon. It makes switching in fliers quite easy, especially because Ground is the major exploitable weakness.
I think that Veedrock pretty much made the case.
Electric/Water
It is so well balanced offensively and defensively that I think will outweigh all of the other choices.
The following factors can help to eliminate typings.
1. x4 Ground Weakness (Heatran comes to mind) does not make a good defensive pokemon.
2. Stealth Rock weakness will also be abhored (think Moltres and its hampered tanking abilities).
3. Also, it is also best that the mon is not Pursuit weak (think Celebi)
I must add that any typing that breaks 2 of these 3 rules (e.g. Electric / Fire) should not be considered on this CAP. Especially when we have not ruled out the defensive possibility yet.
So now we have:
Electric
Electric / Water
Electric / Ground
Electric / Dragon
Electric / Grass
Electric / Fighting
Electric / Dark
Electric / Normal
Offensively, Electric by itself is of course walled by a wide variety of mon.
Electric / Water is walled by Celebi and Latias in OU.
Electric / Ground is walled by Breloom, Celebi, Flygon, Gliscor, Latias and all Rotoms.
Electric / Dragon is walled by only Magnezone.
Electric / Grass is walled by Breloom, Celebi, Latias and Magnezone.
Electric / Fighting is walled by Celebi, Latias and all Rotoms.
Electric / Dark is walled by Breloom and Magnezone.
Electric / Normal is walled by Magnezone, Rhyperior and all Rotoms.
Noteworthy: Electric / Water, Electric / Dragon, Electric / Dark
I guess that Electric and Electric / Ground can be eliminated as it fails to hit 6 of the top used pokemon in OU.
In terms of Type Super-Effective Coverage added by the extra typing:
Water hits Fire, Ground, Rock SE – all VERY common types except maybe for Fire, and also hits Ground SE, which was immune to Electric.
Dragon hits Dragon – not that good.
Grass hits Ground, Rock – OK but outclassed in terms of type coverage by Water.
Fighting hits Steel, Rock, Dark, Normal, Ice – the best, I think, in terms of additional type coverage.
Dark hits Ghost, Psychic – OK, good but not spectacular.
Normal hits… nothing in extra!
Noteworthy: Electric / Water, Electric / Fighting
So currently, we have five options left:
Electric / Water
Electric / Dragon
Electric / Grass
Electric / Fighting
Electric / Dark
So how many of the top 20 do these hit SE?
Electric / Water: Heatran, Gyarados, Infernape, Starmie, Gliscor, Vaporeon
Electric / Dragon: Salamence, Gyarados, Latias, Starmie, Vaporeon
Electric / Grass: Gyarados, Swampert, Starmie, Vaporeon
Electric / Fighting: Heatran, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Blissey, Lucario, Starmie, Vaporeon
Electric / Dark: Gyarados, Latias, Gengar, Celebi, Starmie, Vaporeon
Noteworthy: Electric / Fighting, Electric / Water, Electric / Dark
Here, Fighting clearly has the edge with 7, followed by 6 from Water and Dark.
Defensively?
Weaknesses:
Electric / Water has one common weakness to Ground and one quite common to Grass.
Electric / Dragon has common weaknesses to Ice, Dragon and Ground
Electric / Grass has only one key weakness (Ice) but is weak to U-Turn.
Electric / Fighting is weak to a very common Ground and a not-so-common Psychic.
Electric / Dark has common weaknesses to Ground, Fighting, and the odd one to U-Turn.
Noteworthy: Electric / Fighting, Electric / Water, Electric / Grass
Resistances:
Electric / Water has a useful double resistance to Steel, as well as resistances to Water, Ice, Flying, Fire, Electric – all common attacking types.
Electric / Dragon has a double resistance to Electric, as well as to Water, Grass, Flying, Steel, Fire – extremely similar to Electric / Water.
Electric / Grass has another double resistance to Electric, as well as Water, Grass, Steel – clearly outclassed by Electric / Dragon.
Electric / Fighting resists SR (Rock), Dark, Electric, Steel – not so common in comparison.
Electric / Dark has an immunity to Psychic, and resistances to Flying, Electric, Steel, Dark, Ghost – a handful but not very common.
Noteworthy – Electric / Water, Electric / Dragon.
In the five comparisons that I’ve made above, Electric / Water has been noteworthy for all 5 times. Many of you may not agree with my elimination process, but it has already taken many things into account.
And again:
Electric/Water
Electric/Water
It is so well balanced offensively and defensively that I think will outweigh all of the other choices.
The following factors can help to eliminate typings.
1. x4 Ground Weakness (Heatran comes to mind) does not make a good defensive pokemon.
2. Stealth Rock weakness will also be abhored (think Moltres and its hampered tanking abilities).
3. Also, it is also best that the mon is not Pursuit weak (think Celebi)
I must add that any typing that breaks 2 of these 3 rules (e.g. Electric / Fire) should not be considered on this CAP. Especially when we have not ruled out the defensive possibility yet.
So now we have:
Electric
Electric / Water
Electric / Ground
Electric / Dragon
Electric / Grass
Electric / Fighting
Electric / Dark
Electric / Normal
Offensively, Electric by itself is of course walled by a wide variety of mon.
Electric / Water is walled by Celebi and Latias in OU.
Electric / Ground is walled by Breloom, Celebi, Flygon, Gliscor, Latias and all Rotoms.
Electric / Dragon is walled by only Magnezone.
Electric / Grass is walled by Breloom, Celebi, Latias and Magnezone.
Electric / Fighting is walled by Celebi, Latias and all Rotoms.
Electric / Dark is walled by Breloom and Magnezone.
Electric / Normal is walled by Magnezone, Rhyperior and all Rotoms.
Noteworthy: Electric / Water, Electric / Dragon, Electric / Dark
I guess that Electric and Electric / Ground can be eliminated as it fails to hit 6 of the top used pokemon in OU.
In terms of Type Super-Effective Coverage added by the extra typing:
Water hits Fire, Ground, Rock SE – all VERY common types except maybe for Fire, and also hits Ground SE, which was immune to Electric.
Dragon hits Dragon – not that good.
Grass hits Ground, Rock – OK but outclassed in terms of type coverage by Water.
Fighting hits Steel, Rock, Dark, Normal, Ice – the best, I think, in terms of additional type coverage.
Dark hits Ghost, Psychic – OK, good but not spectacular.
Normal hits… nothing in extra!
Noteworthy: Electric / Water, Electric / Fighting
So currently, we have five options left:
Electric / Water
Electric / Dragon
Electric / Grass
Electric / Fighting
Electric / Dark
So how many of the top 20 do these hit SE?
Electric / Water: Heatran, Gyarados, Infernape, Starmie, Gliscor, Vaporeon
Electric / Dragon: Salamence, Gyarados, Latias, Starmie, Vaporeon
Electric / Grass: Gyarados, Swampert, Starmie, Vaporeon
Electric / Fighting: Heatran, Gyarados, Tyranitar, Blissey, Lucario, Starmie, Vaporeon
Electric / Dark: Gyarados, Latias, Gengar, Celebi, Starmie, Vaporeon
Noteworthy: Electric / Fighting, Electric / Water, Electric / Dark
Here, Fighting clearly has the edge with 7, followed by 6 from Water and Dark.
Defensively?
Weaknesses:
Electric / Water has one common weakness to Ground and one quite common to Grass.
Electric / Dragon has common weaknesses to Ice, Dragon and Ground
Electric / Grass has only one key weakness (Ice) but is weak to U-Turn.
Electric / Fighting is weak to a very common Ground and a not-so-common Psychic.
Electric / Dark has common weaknesses to Ground, Fighting, and the odd one to U-Turn.
Noteworthy: Electric / Fighting, Electric / Water, Electric / Grass
Resistances:
Electric / Water has a useful double resistance to Steel, as well as resistances to Water, Ice, Flying, Fire, Electric – all common attacking types.
Electric / Dragon has a double resistance to Electric, as well as to Water, Grass, Flying, Steel, Fire – extremely similar to Electric / Water.
Electric / Grass has another double resistance to Electric, as well as Water, Grass, Steel – clearly outclassed by Electric / Dragon.
Electric / Fighting resists SR (Rock), Dark, Electric, Steel – not so common in comparison.
Electric / Dark has an immunity to Psychic, and resistances to Flying, Electric, Steel, Dark, Ghost – a handful but not very common.
Noteworthy – Electric / Water, Electric / Dragon.
In the five comparisons that I’ve made above, Electric / Water has been noteworthy for all 5 times. Many of you may not agree with my elimination process, but it has already taken many things into account.
And again:
Electric/Water
Poison. On a personal note, I made a Poke a while ago with the typing and the whole concept came out pretty good and I assume we can do the same. I've actually been wanting one to come out since two Caps ago because Fidgit didn't do it for me.
This would seriously be a good defensive concept. The guy will be immune to Poison (and possibly electric moves if we let it) and won't be harassed by Stealth Rocks. It would only has two weaknesses (and only one is common in the OU game). Its weakness to Ground hurts though as Earthquake is one of the most common moves. The 4x weakness to it should never be looked on as a true downer simply because with all the powerful guys usin' it, it would be killed, if not seriously injured anyways. However, if it would be a defensive Pokemon, then the weakness would hurt a lot unless we figure out a way to fix that. And hell, if we're crazy, we could find some ways to remove the weakness.
Not focusing on abilities, the two typings would also be a great chance to use some of the more exclusive moves in the game, bringging in a little more fun and variety.
My other highs are Grass and Bug. I may have been talking about them mostly, but now I'm all for my old combo. The benefits they have are outgunned when they're compaired to Poison.
This would seriously be a good defensive concept. The guy will be immune to Poison (and possibly electric moves if we let it) and won't be harassed by Stealth Rocks. It would only has two weaknesses (and only one is common in the OU game). Its weakness to Ground hurts though as Earthquake is one of the most common moves. The 4x weakness to it should never be looked on as a true downer simply because with all the powerful guys usin' it, it would be killed, if not seriously injured anyways. However, if it would be a defensive Pokemon, then the weakness would hurt a lot unless we figure out a way to fix that. And hell, if we're crazy, we could find some ways to remove the weakness.
Not focusing on abilities, the two typings would also be a great chance to use some of the more exclusive moves in the game, bringging in a little more fun and variety.
My other highs are Grass and Bug. I may have been talking about them mostly, but now I'm all for my old combo. The benefits they have are outgunned when they're compaired to Poison.
Electric / Dark seems like a fine pick to me. Neutral to stealth rock, counters the rotom forms extremely well (except for hp fighting variants), and a simple earthquake addition to its movepool would prevent it from being set up upon by steels.
offensively speaking, most steels/pokemon that switch in to dark attacks are at least neutral to electric ones (tyranitar, scizor, lucario, metagross, etc) and half of those don't like earthquake, so I could imagine this guy being a fighter. STAB pursuit is great if he gets it and not many bulky defenders like to switch into a boosted dark attack anyway unless they resist it, and if they resist it they probably don't resist electric.
on the defensive spectrum, dark gets immunity to pyschic, which isn't all that useful, but resistance to flying, electric, steel, dark, and ghost is helpful enough for some key switch ins (the aforementioned rotom, gengar's shadowball, the rare zen headbutt from jirachi/metagross)
offensively speaking, most steels/pokemon that switch in to dark attacks are at least neutral to electric ones (tyranitar, scizor, lucario, metagross, etc) and half of those don't like earthquake, so I could imagine this guy being a fighter. STAB pursuit is great if he gets it and not many bulky defenders like to switch into a boosted dark attack anyway unless they resist it, and if they resist it they probably don't resist electric.
on the defensive spectrum, dark gets immunity to pyschic, which isn't all that useful, but resistance to flying, electric, steel, dark, and ghost is helpful enough for some key switch ins (the aforementioned rotom, gengar's shadowball, the rare zen headbutt from jirachi/metagross)
Supporting Electric/Dark. It's neutral to stealth rock and isn't weak to pursuit; defensively, its only weak to three types and resists five (being immune to an additional one) and offensively, it hits four types supereffectively.
I, too, am banking for an Electric/Water type. Let me explain from two stances:
1. The offensive stance. An additional typing isn't going to do much for CAP 8 offensively; Electric already hits many of the bulkier metagame Pokemon for super-effective, or at least neutral, damage. However, a Water typing permits it to gain very valuable super-effective hits on Ground types that would otherwise happily eat Electric types for breakfast. It also gives CAP 8 access to the typical array of Ice-type moves. Despite Grass's ability to eradicate the horrible, horrible Swampert, I still find Water superior for a simple reason:
2. The defensive stance. This, for me, is the main reason I want an Electric/Water type. The two typings compliment each other quite admirably, with Water granting Electric makeshift resistance to STAB Earthquakes (stay away from Swamperts, though), and, more importantly, resistances to Ice, Water, and Fire, all of which are seem pretty often in the Metagame. The combination also yields only two weaknesses and takes neutral hits from many attacks, making it a viable defensive option. Comparing back to Grass (admittedly my second choice), the Earthquake problem is practically completely dealt with, but the weaknesses to Ice and Fire are just too glaring to ignore.
1. The offensive stance. An additional typing isn't going to do much for CAP 8 offensively; Electric already hits many of the bulkier metagame Pokemon for super-effective, or at least neutral, damage. However, a Water typing permits it to gain very valuable super-effective hits on Ground types that would otherwise happily eat Electric types for breakfast. It also gives CAP 8 access to the typical array of Ice-type moves. Despite Grass's ability to eradicate the horrible, horrible Swampert, I still find Water superior for a simple reason:
2. The defensive stance. This, for me, is the main reason I want an Electric/Water type. The two typings compliment each other quite admirably, with Water granting Electric makeshift resistance to STAB Earthquakes (stay away from Swamperts, though), and, more importantly, resistances to Ice, Water, and Fire, all of which are seem pretty often in the Metagame. The combination also yields only two weaknesses and takes neutral hits from many attacks, making it a viable defensive option. Comparing back to Grass (admittedly my second choice), the Earthquake problem is practically completely dealt with, but the weaknesses to Ice and Fire are just too glaring to ignore.
I also like the sound of Electric/Dark. The only weaknesses would be ground, bug and fighting. For a generic sweeper, this would mean it's main concern was Mach-punch, and it's STAB moves would be walled by Magnezone, Breloom (sort of), Torterra (infrequently) and Steelix (also infrequent). If it were a physical wall, the only common threat would be signal beam. Could perhaps counter threats like Jirachi, Ghosties, Psychics and interestingly, Magnezone. (Stats/Moves providing).
I'm not trying to choose an ability though, or even throwing my support in for an ability, I was simply trying to see which types would best suit the abilities, in an effort to find a type that would allow CAP8 to function well regardless of the ability we choose. Sorry if that's still not approppriate for this thread. =/
Snip about Water:
Of course, we shouldn't bank on the bold occuring but it's a possibility. There's a million grass resists out there that can take the attack need be. The problem with no secondary type is that the number of resists it has are very limited.
If you are looking for an offensive and defensive combination, Electric/Water is the way to go. The arguments for Poison are purely defensive as Poison STAB sucks; however Water remedies that by (still) adding key resists and providing a secondary STAB that isn't worthless. I urge everyone backing Poison to consider Water as an alternative.
Well, I didn't expect to actually be swayed by your arguments, but if Dragon doesn't win I want Water to.
I was planning to go for Electric/Dark as well, but didn't like the Fighting weakness, which is why I went for Electric/Bug instead (which I'm still going for). Partly because we can easily give this Magic Guard to eliminate Stealth Rock damage, and MOSTLY because we can just as easily employ Fidgit as a Rapid Spinner as I said earlier
Dark and Electric is fairly balanced defensively as it is weak to two common types (Ground and Fighting) but resists five and is immune to one. It's not weak to Pursuit or Stealth Rock, so no issues with switching. It's not unbalanced or over centralizing because of weaknesses to common types.
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