no there doesn't, and even if there did, what makes you think it would be anything like the god you believe in.
Its written in a book therefore assuming its true is rational, brilliant logic there
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God vs Science
- Thread starter Fuzznip
- Start date
Amazing. I think it's beautiful how some can believe so strongly. I'm going to pass this one on.
^ That was Pmed to me by LMPL. I don't care! I hate it when peopel feel the need to sit here and heavily analyze a story. Who cares that it's flawe? Keep you opinions to yourself.
^ That was Pmed to me by LMPL. I don't care! I hate it when peopel feel the need to sit here and heavily analyze a story. Who cares that it's flawe? Keep you opinions to yourself.
Look Sean, whether you guys take me seriously doesn't matter to me. No one with credentials is going to take your arguments seriously because guess what - all these questions have been asked, answered and explained through years and years of research that you can't even begin to fathom. Like enigma said, about 5% of the population is Atheist. So this 5% claims to have found something that stops a force that hasn't been stopped for thousands of years? I don't think so. Try and try as you might, you can't disprove the Bible. It hasn't been done, this is very much true, and it won't be done. And there's nothing you can do, that hasn't been done before, to change that. But since you're so stubborn to ignore that one fact that destroys the basis of your belief, I'll give you this challenge; Of all these inconsistencies that you happened to find from the word of mouth from another, put those verses into context, research the original Hebrew, then do some more research on the meaning of some of the verses. Of course there will be symbolism that you might not understand, if so, take those questions to a Bible scholar. I'd say it'd be a waste of time, but actually learning the Bible instead of bandwagoning the opinions of others will do you some good. Thanks for the debate, it was a great experience.
Now in the event that through extensive research you find just one statement in the Bible that is proven to be false (i.e. The Bible says a Lion is the smallest animal or something - obviously that would be proven false ) I give you my word that I will join your ranks as a fellow Atheist.
PM me your finds. I'll get you a response.
Now in the event that through extensive research you find just one statement in the Bible that is proven to be false (i.e. The Bible says a Lion is the smallest animal or something - obviously that would be proven false ) I give you my word that I will join your ranks as a fellow Atheist.
PM me your finds. I'll get you a response.
2 Chronicles 4:2HeroMasaki said:
In the King James version, that is:
"Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
Welcome to the Atheists society, here's your card.
Things don't have to happen for a reason. Sometimes they just happen. That fairy tale cliche really doesn't apply to science =\
Why does there need to be something infinite for the universe to even exist?
And what evidence is there to back up the Bible's claims? It is getting clear that you don't know what "rational" means. You are taking it as an insult and not as an analysis. There is no evidence to support your claims that god exists, yet you still believe that it is true. That is the definition of irrationality. What if I told you right now that God is not infinite or beginning/end etc? Why would you believe the Bible over me when we are giving you an equal amount of evidence? Rationality is based on observation and optimality, neither of which is supported by the theory of a god. You are coming to conclusions based off of no evidence.
Your post reminds me of an incredibly accurate picture I once saw:
Here's the same verse in the "God's Word Translation"
"Huram made a pool from cast metal. It was 15 feet in diameter. It was round, 71/2 feet high, and had a circumference of 45 feet."
Awesome Furniture I might say. Wait Furniture? Oh you probably wouldn't know that since you took the verse out of context.
Thanks for the card but I think I' ll pass.
May I suggest a book anyone? It's a great read for any Atheist. "735 Baffling Bible Questions Answered, by Larry Richards."
Great Book. It'll answer questions like the one above and more.
EDIT: jrrrrrrr+
The Bible saying itself it infallible is not the only reason Christians have to believe it is. Like I said before, numerous records have been found and continue to be found that support the Bible's claims. Educate yourself my friend.
Exact same problem with religion. How did a god get their in the first place?
And don't say he's infinite, because your argument fails when you do.
Y'know why?
Because in String/M theory, the 11th dimensional space containing the membranes (Basically Universes) is infinite as well.
The mathematics of string/M theory say the 11th dimension is infinite, and cyclic (so overall not much change), etc...Therefore it is rational to come to the conclusion that String/M theory is correct and needs to be the Theory of Everything (and thus existence). :|
HeroMasaki said:
What do you mean I took the verse out of context? Completely irrelevant; there is an extremely basic mathematical error sitting right there in the verse. The same error appears in the God's Word Translation, which you posted and I quoted. Enjoy the furniture and the card.
So the circumference should've said 47.1238898 instead of 45.
LOL
That was pretty funny
Or better yet
The diameter should've been 14.32394488 instead of 15
Sorry that the measurements weren't quite exact for you. Then again, you try explaining the the measurements of every single piece of furniture needed for the Holy Temple . In 1*** BC
I really don't want to jump into this but I have to point out (even though it's been stated before I think) that just because there are SOME true facts in the Bible doesn't automatically imply that ALL facts are true in the Bible.
Here's an example: My username is Carl. My dick is 3 feet long.
The first fact is true. This does not mean that the second fact is true. This is essentially your logic here.
why are you making excuses? surgo just proved something in the bible to be factually incorrect. i guess you're an atheist now!!
Here's the thing. A substantial amount of the Bible has been proven true. None of it false. If you take just Prophesy for example. There's around 1000 different prophecies. About half of that have been proven to come true. None proven false. That's a score of 500-0. And that's just prophecy. I agree when you say that just because some of something being right doesn't make it automatically true. But when most of something has been proven true, more things being proven true after time, and NONE being proven false then that sounds pretty credible to me.
To Glen:
Once again, taken out of context. The main measurement of the Israelites were Cubits no? Now when giving instructions of the measurements for the Furniture of the Temple, how do you expect them, without any precise tool of measurement, to make an object statistically matching parameters that haven't even been discovered? And please don't say because They're the people of God because that has nothing to do with unnecessary precise numbers.
you didn't say 'find me an example of anything factually incorrect in the bible that i consider valid.' so really, it doesn't matter what i expect of the iraelites; you are making excuses. the numbers given indicate a factual error in the bible, and that is all you asked for. it is of no consequence whether you think that it's not their fault that they were wrong. they were wrong and that's what you asked for!
you are an atheist now, dude!
Is everything ok in your life? Because you seem to have an extremly pessimistic outlook on...everything.
Just because a few extremists abuse religion to beat on their wives or abuse thier power doesn't mean that everyone is the same way. The religion of Islam is a very peaceful religion that preaches tranquility and condemns violence. Only the nuts use thier religion to justify violence claiming they are soldiers of Allah (or God or Budda or the Flying Spagetti Monster).
While I agree that people should live and learn, religion can be used for guidance for morals and how to act righteously. Some of our laws are based on the Ten Commandments (no stealing, killing, etc.) Just don't overdo it or else you will become Jacko Wacko the suicide bomber.
I guess if the Bible went by what you considered valid I'd have to become Atheist. Too bad it doesn't.
Heh, good try Glen.
EDIT: Just so people stop can stop wasting my time I'll said say this for the last time. Anything can be factually incorrect when taking out of context. The point is, just because you choose to ignore the time something written, its reason for being and its place in context doesn't make it wrong.
"735 Baffling Bible Questions Answered, by Larry Richards."
Seriously people, If you have questions concerning the Bible, refer to that book. Its a great resource for Christians and a great read for Atheists. I'm sure all your questions will be answered by that book alone. I did some further research and I found that the Book does not cover Nehemiah. Why? I don't know. Maybe its because it Nehemiah is full of holes that haven't/can't be answered!... Or maybe its because it has no inconsistencies. Sorry for getting your hopes up =/
Good Game Bros and Good Luck. Further questions? Buy the book. I don't feel like wasting anymore hours on a debate I already know I won.
Sir your comment makes no sense.
Oh its because I took the sentence out of context. Ooops.
this post is not even worth responding to, so i'll just respond to you in general.
judging by your initial response to surgo's post, you were unaware of the mathematical inaccuracy in that particular verse. now that you know of it, you are pretending that it is irrelevant (which it really would be in this discussion, had you not been cocky amongst people much more knowledgeable than you are [speaking of surgo here]). instead of going 'hmm yeah maybe there are some little inaccuracies in the bible, but i still believe its great!' you are clinging childishly to the delusion that it is not only morally but factually infallible, the latter of which has just been proven false.
do you think an attitude like this is something jesus would advocate?
Hero Misaki, I am curious to know...if you are so confident that everything in the Bible is true, how do you explain this huge list of Bible passages that blatantly contradict each other? Even if every word in the Bible was true, how do you explain the passages that literally and figuratively prove other passages wrong? They are directly in context and they say completely different things....so how can that be?
If you seriously think that the Bible is full of fact, you are ignorant. Not only are you ignorant of reality, but you are also ignorant of the Bible itself.
If you seriously think that the Bible is full of fact, you are ignorant. Not only are you ignorant of reality, but you are also ignorant of the Bible itself.
Given the general tone and outstanding lack of content of HeroMasaki's posts, I am pretty sure he is either a troll or thoroughly hopeless (for any other topic than religion I'd say the former, but... yeah). So HeroMasaki:
If you are a troll: well done! :)
If you are not a troll: frankly I can't do much for you. First you need to realize that all of your sources are Christian think tanks, which are obviously biased and from which you can expect no integrity. They are just telling you what you want to hear and you gob it up like the nice little sheep you are. Then, for each "scientific fact" the Bible contains you need to ask yourself, first, if the interpretation makes sense, second, if it was common knowledge back then or not, third, if it could have been written by a layman. All that with serious, respectable sources. For each "prophecy" you find, you ought to verify carefully if it has been fulfilled, while of course avoiding sites who will only tell you what you want to hear because they have an agenda. Of course, the core problem here is that you evidently do not have the slightest clue how to inform yourself properly (only imbeciles would check Christian sites for factual information, let alone link to them - that's like linking to a study rejecting all man-induced effects on global warming which is commended and spread around by oil companies), nor do are you capable of doing any critical thinking for yourself.
I mean, if you are serious, well... you need... a reality check. I hope you get it and I hope you get it soon. Learn to filter and double check your sources, it's really obvious that you don't do it properly (case in point: the Chernobyl rumor) and it will help you immensely.
If you are a troll: well done! :)
If you are not a troll: frankly I can't do much for you. First you need to realize that all of your sources are Christian think tanks, which are obviously biased and from which you can expect no integrity. They are just telling you what you want to hear and you gob it up like the nice little sheep you are. Then, for each "scientific fact" the Bible contains you need to ask yourself, first, if the interpretation makes sense, second, if it was common knowledge back then or not, third, if it could have been written by a layman. All that with serious, respectable sources. For each "prophecy" you find, you ought to verify carefully if it has been fulfilled, while of course avoiding sites who will only tell you what you want to hear because they have an agenda. Of course, the core problem here is that you evidently do not have the slightest clue how to inform yourself properly (only imbeciles would check Christian sites for factual information, let alone link to them - that's like linking to a study rejecting all man-induced effects on global warming which is commended and spread around by oil companies), nor do are you capable of doing any critical thinking for yourself.
I mean, if you are serious, well... you need... a reality check. I hope you get it and I hope you get it soon. Learn to filter and double check your sources, it's really obvious that you don't do it properly (case in point: the Chernobyl rumor) and it will help you immensely.
Did you just try to disprove the Bible with www.infidels.com?
Please don't tell me that is the basis of your argument.
Man, I'm not going to even mention what happens when a book thousands of years old is translated into a foreign language over and over again but hey, thanks for showing all the problems with the english translation of the Bible. I bet you could do a better job. Did everyone forget what I said about "Original Hebrew"?
You guys are so funny and way too eager to make me an Atheist.
So you guys claim that my resources are from Bias Christian Think Tanks?
Which means that your sources aren't biased at all even though they ignore near-obvious facts and bring up questions that have been answered over and over again? You're right Atheist scholars clearly take both sides into account. Then abandon that other side when they find out their theories and inquires fall flat on their face.
I'm gonna say one more time people. Get your hands on that book.
Nobody is trying to convert you, lol.
If the Bible was translated so much that passages that directly oppose each other cant be taken seriously, why are you taking ANY of it seriously?
I'd like to see you explain who Joseph's father is using the Bible. Oh wait, you can't, because the Bible says that Joseph has a different father in different places in the Bible. Can you explain if Jesus is god, or just the son of god? Wait, you can't because the Bible says different things in different places. That goes beyond just a mistranslation, it has conflicting facts.
The same Bible you are using to condemn atheists because of how factual it is suddenly becomes irrelevant because of mistranslations when those facts are proven wrong? What?
If this is really the case, then why are you defending the Bible at all? It's been translated over and over again, so obviously your facts are irrelevant.
Responding to you would be funny if you didn't represent a massive portion of this country.
I'm not gonna lie, I did enjoy it and I found it extremely amusing. However, I, personally, have encountered so many people like the student who have their own stories so well rehearsed you cannot combat them. Christians already know the typical attacks upon their religion and have prepared for them. Like the image jrrrrrrr posted, one cannot break a loop that has been 'perfected'. And it is that seemingly 'perfected' logic that roots how "Disciples" of Christ, themselves, think: it makes sense to them and there is no way in changing their mind.
Look it all comes down to this since nobody will be convincing anybody of anything.
Either I die and realize that my whole life of Christianity has been worthless since God doesn't exist. Or the Bible continues to prove itself correct and the day comes when everyone will realize God's existence.
I won't even mention what will happen to any of you if you die and the latter is true.
One or the other. We'll just have to play the waiting game.
At the very least, I'd rather not risk Situation B.