God vs Science

[Thisaccountwashackedlol]

No, he does things for those that are deaf and blind as well. Look at all the Atheists that have had their eyes and ears opened by him. I am sure there have been situations in your life that would be examples of God speaking to you and trying to get you to see and listen.

And also, if your soul is at risk as you said, what do you have to lose in following Christ? I cannot say I have lost much in following what God wants for my life, I am happy with my life.

He does things for THEM, not specifically for ME. I want him to do something specifically for ME.

Meanwhile look at all the religious people that have strayed from God, and have become Atheists. Clearly he isn't doing enough for certain people. God needs to do things suited for each individual person. He can't expect all people to think the same way. For example, you might think that birth is proof of God. I don't see it that way. Therefore God needs to provide proof specific to me.

And if God has tried speaking to me before then he has clearly done it the wrong way. I am blind and deaf (not in the literal sense). He is clearly doing things meant for the "unhandicapped". What he is doing might speak to some people, but it is not speaking to me. Again, why can't God do something specifically for me?

And actually I have plenty to lose by believing in Christ without proof. There are different faiths. Yours could be the wrong one. God could punish me more harshly for trusting the wrong faith than for being an Atheist.

He gives each person the same chance as the rest. Either we chose to follow him or not.
it.

According to you everyone has an equal chance to see God. But you are forgetting that the "handicapped" cannot see or hear the same shit that the unhandicapped can see and hear. Meanwhile God refuses to do specific things for those handicapped people. Therefore it is not fair.

Imagine that God procured a staircase leading to heaven. Anyone pure of heart could get on it and walk up to heaven. Sadly, someone pure of heart was born in a wheelchair and cannot climb the stairs. God refuses to procure a magical elevator. Is God being fair?

Also why won't God change his plan when it is clearly failing for some people? Is he stubborn? Why should I worship a God that is too stubborn to help me out personally?

 

[Brain]

...or maybe he does not want to show up because he cannot, kind of ruining the definition of God, because he can "do everything", right?

No. He exists. He just doesn't like me. I'm sure of it.

God stopped talking to the Hebrews for over 400 years before Jesus came. Jesus has come and God is not going to come again untill it is time. Untill then, He sent the Holy Spirit to be there for us to come to Him. He isn't going to change his plan. The Holy Spirit is enough for those to choose to follow Him. If God had to do something special to each person to ge them to follow him that would be manipulating them. He gives each person the same chance as the rest. Either we chose to follow him or not.

In all seriousness, I never had any choice. I never had the slightest indication from God, should he exist. I never, ever made a conscious choice to reject him. You may not realize it, but what you say in your post is really insulting. Atheists do not consciously reject messages from God. They. Just. Don't. At best, atheists would subconsciously reject signals from God that they only receive subconsciously, without ever realizing anything. To suggest that you know any better than them about what they have experienced is conceited, insulting and just plain false.

Also, why are you telling God he has to talk to you directly to get you to listen to him. You said he does things that you can hardly see, but you saw them, you noticed it and chose to ignore it.

Nah, I misspoke. From what you said, I inferred that whatever hints he'd give would be subtle and that if they existed I would hardly see them, so that's what I said. But the fact is that I saw absolutely nothing at all.

 

[Lexite]

If you are not rejecting it, then why do you consider those that do believe it to be irrational. If it is irrational, you are rejecting it.

 

[.//enigma]

The population of atheists on a global scale is currently at 5%.

There are roughly 6.7 billion people. That means roughly 335 million people are atheists. This is substantially higher than it was, say, 20 years ago.

We are not saying it is irrational. We are saying if there is no substantial proof, WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE IN A SUPREME BEING?

 

[Brain]

If you are not rejecting it, then why do you consider those that do believe it to be irrational. If it is irrational, you are rejecting it.

I'm talking about rejecting signals. I have received no signals. I have seen no evidence. There is nothing to reject in that sense.

And if I reject the concept of God, it is because of the lack of signals and the lack of evidence.

 

[Thisaccountwashackedlol]

If you are not rejecting it, then why do you consider those that do believe it to be irrational. If it is irrational, you are rejecting it.

I think it is irrational because I am "blind and deaf." When someone says "look at that baby being born, surely proof of God," I am unable to see what they are seeing. Therefore I think that the person is simply making it up, and therefore being irrational.

 

[User 12783]

The bolded part is the only thing that made sense to me in your post.

And the first 4 sentences.

Also, we continuously bash the Bible and show you things that are proved false in the Bible. And you continously give us answers like "you misunderstood it" or "you translated it wrong" or "BIG METAPHOR".

Seriously, we can't get anywhere in this debate when you are acting like a stubborn little child who hates being proved wrong, but knows that it will inevitably happen.

I'm agnostic. I don't believe there was a God, he might or might not exist, it doesn't really matter as that probably isn't the reason why I was here in the first place, why I was born, and why I am specifically what I am. But, that's just my opinion. People fight with me everyday to try to prove to me he exists. But if you've been fed the wrong information for decades won't you inevitable start to believe it? Its the same thing with mockery. The more some calls you fat or ugly, the more you come to think that you actually are fat or ugly. Only passion in it is, that AD and BC count as proof, and that's something I never got. Why is our time system (eg. years) set by the birth of Christ? Last time I checked, Islam was the ruling religion anyways (I am not a part of either cult).

Brain stated my point the best, there might be someone out there, but if he does exist, he is not who we envision him to be.

 

[.//enigma]

I'm agnostic. I don't believe there was a God, he might or might not exist, it doesn't really matter as that probably isn't the reason why I was here in the first place, why I was born, and why I am specifically what I am. But, that's just my opinion. People fight with me everyday to try to prove to me he exists. But if you've been fed the wrong information for decades won't you inevitable start to believe it? Its the same thing with mockery. The more some calls you fat or ugly, the more you come to think that you actually are fat or ugly. Only passion in it is, that AD and BC count as proof, and that's something I never got. Why is our time system (eg. years) set by the birth of Christ and the death of Christ? Last time I checked, Islam was the ruling religion anyways (I am not a part of either cult).

By the way, I wasn't talking to you about being stubborn. It was your first post, and I would have had no right to blatantly assume that. ;D

The bolded part is genius.

My name is Jimmy. I am a tad overweight, but I don't let it get to me. At least, I didn't.

In the 5th grade, I was a bit hefty. Not by a lot, but a little. No one ever called my names, so I assumed what I wanted to, that I was a little overweight and there was nothing wrong with it. Then I entered middle school.

The 7th and 8th graders laughed at me. I developed nicknames like "fatty" and "hippo". After 3 years (6th, 7th and 8th) of tolerating this, I finally moved on to high school.

High school was no better. The 11th and 12th graders who were really skinny called me even worse names, names that I would not like to discuss. When I entered tenth grade, I finally broke. I became anarexic.

The doctor sat me down one day and told me that from 5th to 9th grade, I was ONLY a maximum of 7 pounds overweight at any given time. He said I had no possible health dangers due to my weight, but I ruined that with my anarexia.

This story illustrates the bolded.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Why is our time system (eg. years) set by the birth of Christ and the death of Christ? Last time I checked, Islam was the ruling religion anyways (I am not a part of either cult).

Because the calendar was made by the Romans, who were quite powerful at the time.
Also, the death of Christ has nothing to do with BC or AD. AD means Anno Domini, not After Death.

 

[User 12783]

Yes, I realize that mistake.

 

[.//enigma]

And if AD means After Death, that would mean Christ lived for 1 year (if he ever lived at all). =\

What does Anno Domini mean?

Homosexuals should not be brought into this debate, because it's their choice. I don't think it has anything to do with genetics, although I could be wrong.

 

[Thisaccountwashackedlol]

And if AD means After Death, that would mean Christ lived for 1 year (if he ever lived at all). =\

What does Anno Domini mean?

Homosexuals should not be brought into this debate, because it's their choice. I don't think it has anything to do with genetics, although I could be wrong.

It means The Year of Our Lord.

I find it irrational to not have an answer as to how the Universe came into existence. Something cannot be created out of nothing and therefore something had to exist for the Universe to exit.

So the universe cannot come from nothing, but God can? If the universe HAD to come from something then it seems only fair to say that God had to come from something, that had to come from something, that had to come from something, and so on and so forth. Why is God allowed to bypass that rule but not our universe?

 

[Lexite]

Life itself is a great example. The laws of physics do not rely on chance, why should the universe existing be a product of chance. The fact tat we are alive is proof to many that God exists.

I find it irrational to not have an answer as to how the Universe came into existence. Something cannot be created out of nothing and therefore something had to exist for the Universe to exit.

I do not want to go into a discussion on this as it is really on topic so I will only mention the basic point.

And Brain, I will admit that I dont know how to comment to that at the moment.

 

[.//enigma]

Life itself is a great example. The laws of physics do not rely on chance, why should the universe existing be a product of chance. The fact tat we are alive is proof to many that God exists.

I find it irrational to not have an answer as to how the Universe came into existence. Something cannot be created out of nothing and therefore something had to exist for the Universe to exit.

I do not want to go into a discussion on this as it is really on topic so I will only mention the basic point.

And Brain, I will admit that I dont know how to comment to that at the moment.

Assume I am not an atheist anymore, and I never was.

I flip a coin one day. The chance of it being heads? 50%.

I go about my day, eat coffee, spill the coffee on the coin, wash it off, etc. The chance of it being heads when I flip it? 50%.

I then, before I sleep, pray to God. "Please God, I want this coin to be heads when I flip it tomorrow. I pray to you, please allow this coin to be heads." I wake up and flip it. 50%.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Life itself is a great example. The laws of physics do not rely on chance, why should the universe existing be a product of chance.

Looks like someone has never heard of quantum science or Dr. Heisenberg.

And its funny that you are so quick to jump to scientific laws and theories now that they can help your case. Why aren't you this quick to resort to scientific observation when discussing evolution?

The fact tat we are alive is proof to many that God exists.

How is that proof of anything, at all?

I find it irrational to not have an answer as to how the Universe came into existence. Something cannot be created out of nothing and therefore something had to exist for the Universe to exit.

I would argue that not having an answer is better than putting faith in something that has no supporting evidence.

It's also funny that you say "something cannot be created out of nothing". If that is true, then what created God? You are just bringing this thread in circles.

 

[lati0s]

God stopped talking to the Hebrews for over 400 years before Jesus came. Jesus has come and God is not going to come again untill it is time. Untill then, He sent the Holy Spirit to be there for us to come to Him. He isn't going to change his plan.

God's plan sucks, only 1/3 of the world believes in him, some poeple believe in other gods and some believe in no gods at all. since god always knows everything he would know that this plan would not make those other 2/3 of the world believe in him, yet he chose that plan anyway, obviously god doesn't want to those people to believe in him.

The Holy Spirit is enough for those to choose to follow Him. If God had to do something special to each person to ge them to follow him that would be manipulating them.

revealing the truth to people is not manipulating them. willfully allowing them to be ignorant and then using it as justification for sending them to eternal torment is.

He gives each person the same chance as the rest. Either we chose to follow him or not.

sooo false. a man born in iraq who has known islam all his life, a girl born into a heavily christian community and a person raised atheist definitely do not have the same chance of believing
.

 

[Polis4rule]

For a bit of irony in the topic, I found this at the top of the page:

 

[.//enigma]

Same here. I also saw an ad advertising the Bible in like 14 different languages.

 

[BlakBlastoise]

For a bit of irony in the topic, I found this at the top of the page:

On that note, I get this one:

 

[Oddish On Fire]

.//enigma and HeroMasaki; No one in this thread takes you seriously. If you want to continue your rambling, please move it to PMs, as neither of you are providing substantial points, and both of you are ignoring information blatantly. Pretending you didn't see a fact doesn't mean it was never there. (Feel free to translate the last part into some pro-God rhetoric)

And please, above all things, keep fucking homosexuality out of this thread, as you are sucking the life from it with every post.

Once both of you stop posting, I'll edit this into something useful, like debating with DK.

(Once again, I realize the hypocrisy in posting this.)

EDIT:

.//enigma; reread your posts in a year and you'll be able to pick them apart pretty easily. I had the same problem when I began debating. It's nothing against you, as I think you're cool personally. Thanks for leaving gracefully!

 

[.//enigma]

Being an atheist, you should be able to provide me proof of my rambling. And being an atheist, I will leave this thread with a substantial amount of said proof.

Also, as far as I remember, mini-modding was against the rules.

 

[Lexite]

Jrrrr, all theories that I know of still come to the same problem, how did it get there in the first place. String theory, the multipul dimensions one that I cannot think of the name for at the moment.

I did not simply stick an answer in there, I looked at it and it is a sound answer to me. There needs to be something that exists infinitely and created the Universe for the Universe to even exist. The bible says he is infinite, that he never changes, beginning and end and etc... therefore is it rational to come to the conclusion that God is that infinite the needs to exist.

 

[Surgo]

On the BC/AD thing: Every textbook I've seen at college nowadays uses BCE (Before Common Era) and CE (Common Era) instead.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

Jrrrr, all theories that I know of still come to the same problem, how did it get there in the first place. String theory, the multipul dimensions one that I cannot think of the name for at the moment.

I did not simply stick an answer in there, I looked at it and it is a sound answer to me. There needs to be something that exists infinitely and created the Universe for the Universe to even exist. The bible says he is infinite, that he never changes, beginning and end and etc... therefore is it rational to come to the conclusion that God is that infinite the needs to exist.

If everyone thought like this, no new theories would be created. Instead, people would just say God did it because they can't think of anything better to say. Then, in the last sentence, you say that because you read a passage in the bible, it is rational to believe it? This is wrong! If I wrote "I'm the son of God" would you believe me simply because I said it? Move past the fact that you've been indoctrinated since your childhood and then use Science to prove that God exists. Right now you're just blindly quoting the Bible! If you can use something other than the Bible to prove the Bible right, I might actually take Christianity seriously. However, without scientific proof, the "word" of God doesn't satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Slice]

.//enigma and HeroMasaki; No one in this thread takes you seriously. If you want to continue your rambling, please move it to PMs, as neither of you are providing substantial points, and both of you are ignoring information blatantly. Pretending you didn't see a fact doesn't mean it was never there. (Feel free to translate the last part into some pro-God rhetoric)

And please, above all things, keep fucking homosexuality out of this thread, as you are sucking the life from it with every post.

Once both of you stop posting, I'll edit this into something useful, like debating with DK.

(Once again, I realize the hypocrisy in posting this.)

EDIT:

.//enigma; reread your posts in a year and you'll be able to pick them apart pretty easily. I had the same problem when I began debating. It's nothing against you, as I think you're cool personally. Thanks for leaving gracefully!

You're really not providing this thread with important points rather than bumping it back up and are just minimodding.

There's no need to PM when this is a debate and a discussion.


Back to the issue with God vs. Science.

One of the main reasons God was created was to bring fear into people in order to insure social classes and obedience.

People have abused God's name for years just to come to power and have provided nothing at all. God is a fantasy to scare others and bring down rebellion.

Most religions abuse these powers and women used to have no power due to laws created by so called holy books.

For example, women in Islam are taught to serve the man of the household and he can abuse her as he pleases in some countries such as Iraq and others among the Middle East.

Now, you can say that humans bring about these conditions. However, can't they tell the difference between right and wrong by their holy book.

Most people will believe what they have been taught since they were young, only a few will question it and go against it in order to change it.

That's the world is a beter pleace than it was centuries ago.

Going by a book to decide your life won't get you anywhere. Learn to see what's right and what's wrong by yourself.