-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4
- Thread starter darkie
- Start date
- Status
I figure I'll post this set here. It's a set I've used for Rotom-H countless times, and it has never failed me.
The Quasi-Defensive / Dual Status
Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 192 HP/130 Def/188 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Thunder Wave
- Will-o-wisp / Reflect
There were three goals I had in mind when this set was created:
1. Defeat every variant of SD Lucario
2. Defeat every variant of Gyarados
3. Find a way to get around common Pursuiters, especially Tyranitar
If I only wanted to beat Lucario and Gyarados, I would have run a Scarf set. The major drag with that set is that it becomes huge pursuit bait; something I could not afford. If I wanted to get around Pursuiters and Gyarados, I would have run the Rest-Talk set. The major drag with that is that Rotom then loses the ability to beat SD Lucario with Crunch. So this set came to be.
The 188 Spe EVs allow Rotom to outspeed Adamant Lucario (These guys almost always pack Crunch...) and Overheat to finish him off. Jolly variants cannot OHKO Rotom with Stone Edge or Ice Punch. The 192 HP / 130 Def EVs allow Rotom to take an Adamant DD LO Gyara's Waterfall with a minimum amount of damage sustained (There's a slim chance that he's OHKOed, but only 12% of Gyarados use an Adamant nature and a Life Orb, as derived from these statistics.) The combination of Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt takes Gyarados down easily. Lastly, how to beat common Pursuiters. Scizor gets screwed by Overheat. Metagross is in the same boat as Scizor. Tyranitar gets maimed by WoW, and will not want to switch in on this guy.
Comments / Criticisms / Advice / Anything that could help.
The Quasi-Defensive / Dual Status
Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 192 HP/130 Def/188 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Thunder Wave
- Will-o-wisp / Reflect
There were three goals I had in mind when this set was created:
1. Defeat every variant of SD Lucario
2. Defeat every variant of Gyarados
3. Find a way to get around common Pursuiters, especially Tyranitar
If I only wanted to beat Lucario and Gyarados, I would have run a Scarf set. The major drag with that set is that it becomes huge pursuit bait; something I could not afford. If I wanted to get around Pursuiters and Gyarados, I would have run the Rest-Talk set. The major drag with that is that Rotom then loses the ability to beat SD Lucario with Crunch. So this set came to be.
The 188 Spe EVs allow Rotom to outspeed Adamant Lucario (These guys almost always pack Crunch...) and Overheat to finish him off. Jolly variants cannot OHKO Rotom with Stone Edge or Ice Punch. The 192 HP / 130 Def EVs allow Rotom to take an Adamant DD LO Gyara's Waterfall with a minimum amount of damage sustained (There's a slim chance that he's OHKOed, but only 12% of Gyarados use an Adamant nature and a Life Orb, as derived from these statistics.) The combination of Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt takes Gyarados down easily. Lastly, how to beat common Pursuiters. Scizor gets screwed by Overheat. Metagross is in the same boat as Scizor. Tyranitar gets maimed by WoW, and will not want to switch in on this guy.
Comments / Criticisms / Advice / Anything that could help.
This set deals with all 6 top OU leads:
Kecleon w/ Chople Berry
Adamant/Color Change
252HP/232ATK/26DEF
-Stealth Rock
-Counter
-Sucker Punch
-Ice Punch/Thunderpunch
Aero: Ice Punch is a 2HKO, neither Earthquake nor Stone Edge can KO after first turn taunt.
Azelf: Kecleon's high special def + HP investment survives psychic/fire blast easily, ice punch then sucker punch is a KO. Also sets up stealth rock if Azelf isn't running Taunt.
Infernape: The trickiest ... survives Fake Out + Close Combat thanks to Chople Berry, Countering Close Combat + Sucker Punch will KO.
Jirachi: Sucker Punch hits before Iron Head flinches, and Color Change gives a steel resist allowing Kecleon to KO Jirachi first.
Metagross: Countering Meteor Mash or Earthquake will KO, Bullet Punch gives Kecleon a steel resist while not doing much damage anyway.
Swampert: Countering Earthquake will KO. Color Change plus excellent special defense discourages special water and ice attacks.
Nidoking can run this set too but Water, Psychic, and Ground weaknesses won't work well.
Kecleon w/ Chople Berry
Adamant/Color Change
252HP/232ATK/26DEF
-Stealth Rock
-Counter
-Sucker Punch
-Ice Punch/Thunderpunch
Aero: Ice Punch is a 2HKO, neither Earthquake nor Stone Edge can KO after first turn taunt.
Azelf: Kecleon's high special def + HP investment survives psychic/fire blast easily, ice punch then sucker punch is a KO. Also sets up stealth rock if Azelf isn't running Taunt.
Infernape: The trickiest ... survives Fake Out + Close Combat thanks to Chople Berry, Countering Close Combat + Sucker Punch will KO.
Jirachi: Sucker Punch hits before Iron Head flinches, and Color Change gives a steel resist allowing Kecleon to KO Jirachi first.
Metagross: Countering Meteor Mash or Earthquake will KO, Bullet Punch gives Kecleon a steel resist while not doing much damage anyway.
Swampert: Countering Earthquake will KO. Color Change plus excellent special defense discourages special water and ice attacks.
Nidoking can run this set too but Water, Psychic, and Ground weaknesses won't work well.
I don't know if this was created before but here is a set I thought of.
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
Ability: Guts
Item: Flame Orb / Toxic Orb
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / Spe
Move 1: Megahorn
Move 2: Close Combat
Move 3: Stone Edge / Night Slash
Move 4: Fling
Comments: Heracross is a very powerful Pokemon. The Choice Band set can practically 2HKO almost everything with Stealth Rock. The downside to Choice Band Heracross though is that it cannot switch around attacks. This set is used to take advantage of Heracross ability and Fling.
With Flame Orb or Toxic Orb your attack is increased by 1.5% giving an Adamant Heracross 574 Attack and a Jolly Heracross 523 Attack. The choice of item is a matter of preference. If you think you can stay in and sweep, use Flame Orb. If you want a hit and run Heracross use Toxic Orb as after 3 turns the damage will add up greater than burn damage.
Close Combat and Megahorn are given. Stone Edge is for Gyarados, Salamence, and other Flying types, while Night Slash is pretty much strictly for Rotom-A. Fling is an uncommon attack but this set takes advantage of that. If you know what Pokemon they switched in before you can use Fling to catch the switch in and burn or poison it. This is great for catching things like Gyarados who suffers greatly from a burn.
I really like that. Quite a few things can counter Hera pretty easily but not too easily when burned. Not to mention that no one would expect it. I may very well try this.
A bit gimmick, but interesting idea. I would thought of Swords Dance somewhere. Why ? Because when you Fling that burn, that Heracross looses alot of power, making it much less usefull. With Swords Dance, he would still have some good attacking power. And you may bluff standard SDHeracross, making some physical wall kinda sad.
This set deals with all 6 top OU leads:
I need to congratulate you for creativity here. The problem with this write-up is that Kecleons Sucker Punch isn't strong enough to easily beat Jirachi. I'm not sure if Kecleon can really beat it, as first Iron Head will hurt and some flinches may totally ruin you. But you may just switch in Magnezone for free kill. This Kecleon will also have trouble with TTar leads. This set needs good predictions, but it beats many popular leads. I like this idea.
After you fling the Flame Orb, you still keep your burn status and thus you keep your attack boost.
In any case, I've always liked using Fling; however, even a Guts boost can't really boost the meager 30 power of Flinging a Flame/Toxic Orb very much. I also agree that SD over the third move is a good option.
I don't know if this was created before but here is a set I thought of.
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
Ability: Guts
Item: Flame Orb / Toxic Orb
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / Spe
Move 1: Megahorn
Move 2: Close Combat
Move 3: Stone Edge / Night Slash
Move 4: Fling
Comments: Heracross is a very powerful Pokemon. The Choice Band set can practically 2HKO almost everything with Stealth Rock. The downside to Choice Band Heracross though is that it cannot switch around attacks. This set is used to take advantage of Heracross ability and Fling.
With Flame Orb or Toxic Orb your attack is increased by 1.5% giving an Adamant Heracross 574 Attack and a Jolly Heracross 523 Attack. The choice of item is a matter of preference. If you think you can stay in and sweep, use Flame Orb. If you want a hit and run Heracross use Toxic Orb as after 3 turns the damage will add up greater than burn damage.
Close Combat and Megahorn are given. Stone Edge is for Gyarados, Salamence, and other Flying types, while Night Slash is pretty much strictly for Rotom-A. Fling is an uncommon attack but this set takes advantage of that. If you know what Pokemon they switched in before you can use Fling to catch the switch in and burn or poison it. This is great for catching things like Gyarados who suffers greatly from a burn.
Very gimmicky, but I like it. Would certainly catch people off guard.
That Heracross would have to be using a Flame Orb, as just using Toxic would be more efficient, as multiple uses is arguably more useful on something not-so-frail like Heracross. Common switch-ins to Heracross would not enjoy the burn, the only thing I see getting hurt more by poison would be something like a utility Gliscor or a pure Baton Passer, but the utility would become set up fodder after a burn, and the pure Baton Passer would still be able to accomplish its task, poison or not.
This set is simply amazing. EVs might benefit from some tweaking.
I usually find that Discharge + X is better than T-Wave+TBolt on the double-status build I was using; TWave is pretty much unnecessary against Gyarados when you have SR support, Discharge/TBolt can easily OHKO. I often liked Barrier where you have T-Wave, because sitting behind a Barrier throwing Will-o-wisps was always fun.
Name: Octo-Nite (Dragonite)
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
EV spread: 128 HP/140 Atk/236 Spe
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Outrage
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Wrap
[EV COMMENTS]
After one DD, this dragonite will speedtie Choice Scarf Flygon (neutral natured, 176 Spe EV). Then, with the given HP EV, dragonite will be able to come into stealth rock 4 times (if you don’t take extra damage, which is the very ideal case). The rest of the points went into attack.
[SET COMMENTS]
Well, here is my idea of using WRAP on a dragonite. Go into something that dragonite can resist very well in the late-game. Then, use wrap so it will not escape. Once you do, make sure to do at least 2 DD’s before you start breaking pixel monsters.
Here it is. I would need a lot of advice and such but at this point, without too much effort I was wondering if a wrap-using dragonite will be viable. This is not something any dragons can do, so…I was just curious. First, I would like to know if it would really be beneficial to go 280 speed (to speedtie the standard sarfed flygon and outrun adamant max spe Lucario) or just 246 to outrun Jolly Tyranitar. And then, I would have to figure out how much HP and attack this dragonite will need. This dragonite is not relaly meant to be the Bulky DD-Nite that would take on ice beams. It is really to look for a pokemon to switch into that wouldn’t do too much to dragonite and then use wrap in order to setup DDs in order to sweep during the late-game session. Well…what do you guys think about the wrap using DD dragonite? How’s the concept?
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
EV spread: 128 HP/140 Atk/236 Spe
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Outrage
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Wrap
[EV COMMENTS]
After one DD, this dragonite will speedtie Choice Scarf Flygon (neutral natured, 176 Spe EV). Then, with the given HP EV, dragonite will be able to come into stealth rock 4 times (if you don’t take extra damage, which is the very ideal case). The rest of the points went into attack.
[SET COMMENTS]
Well, here is my idea of using WRAP on a dragonite. Go into something that dragonite can resist very well in the late-game. Then, use wrap so it will not escape. Once you do, make sure to do at least 2 DD’s before you start breaking pixel monsters.
Here it is. I would need a lot of advice and such but at this point, without too much effort I was wondering if a wrap-using dragonite will be viable. This is not something any dragons can do, so…I was just curious. First, I would like to know if it would really be beneficial to go 280 speed (to speedtie the standard sarfed flygon and outrun adamant max spe Lucario) or just 246 to outrun Jolly Tyranitar. And then, I would have to figure out how much HP and attack this dragonite will need. This dragonite is not relaly meant to be the Bulky DD-Nite that would take on ice beams. It is really to look for a pokemon to switch into that wouldn’t do too much to dragonite and then use wrap in order to setup DDs in order to sweep during the late-game session. Well…what do you guys think about the wrap using DD dragonite? How’s the concept?
Gengar@Life Orb
Lonley Nature
144 attack 206 special attack 160 Speed
Substitute
Focus Punch
Hp Fire
Shadow Ball
This set is supposed to counter gengar's counters. Substitute on a dd-less gyrados as the opponent switches in blissey. Focus punch hits for 80.49% - 94.62% on the standard wish-bliss. thats almost always a ko with stealth rock. Sub on rotom as the opponent swithches in scizor to ko with bullett punch. Hp fire hits for 116.91% - 137.61% on 248 hp scizor, the standard for the cb set. Fp also hits for 143.86% - 169.30% on 4 hp tyranitar. Shadow ball for stab and perfect neutral coverage with focus punch. I need some help with the evs though.
Lonley Nature
144 attack 206 special attack 160 Speed
Substitute
Focus Punch
Hp Fire
Shadow Ball
This set is supposed to counter gengar's counters. Substitute on a dd-less gyrados as the opponent switches in blissey. Focus punch hits for 80.49% - 94.62% on the standard wish-bliss. thats almost always a ko with stealth rock. Sub on rotom as the opponent swithches in scizor to ko with bullett punch. Hp fire hits for 116.91% - 137.61% on 248 hp scizor, the standard for the cb set. Fp also hits for 143.86% - 169.30% on 4 hp tyranitar. Shadow ball for stab and perfect neutral coverage with focus punch. I need some help with the evs though.
well, i'm not sure how exactly it would work in today's metagame but in R/B/Y wrap-dragonite was a BEAST XD
With great Bulkiness and the idea of trapping a pokemon that dragonite can resist well, dragonite will be able to pull off some DDs. It'd need to get rid of steels before his sweep also (before then he probably shouldn't go out haha)
Use Roost instead of Earthquake and use Dragon Claw instead of Outrage. Give it max HP and make it as bulky as possible. No need for Speed or Attack if the opponent can't touch you and is trapped from escaping, you can easily get 6 DDs.
This thing really won't work. You'll just trap their counter. It's the same reason why umbreon doesn't work very well. Say you switch in to, say, leadape. You wrap. You wrap in vaporeon. Ouch.
Gliscor @Brightpowder
Sand Veil
-Mud Slap
-Toxic
-Fire Fang
-Roost
Jolly
252hp 216speed 40atk
I just borrowed the Ev's from his page, but they may be modified to work better. He obviously is walled by a couple Pokemon (Skarmory and Resttalk Swampert) but in many situations he annoys the crap out of the opponent. It doesn't work nearly as well out of a Sandstorm.
Sand Veil
-Mud Slap
-Toxic
-Fire Fang
-Roost
Jolly
252hp 216speed 40atk
I just borrowed the Ev's from his page, but they may be modified to work better. He obviously is walled by a couple Pokemon (Skarmory and Resttalk Swampert) but in many situations he annoys the crap out of the opponent. It doesn't work nearly as well out of a Sandstorm.
no comments on my gengar?
If the other person catches on to Kecleon's ability, won't Metagross just Bullet Punch and then Earthquake (now super-effective) for the KO?
Other than that, it seems fine on paper, but do Kecleon's stats hold up to it?
There is already a set for this in the analysis, it's called Substitute + Focus Punch.
its actually modified to ko blissey and with life orb it also has a diferent nature
I think that this would be horrible to face. The only problem i could see is an ice beam/surf from anything would ko fast. Also you could switch to get rid of mud slaps effect
Sounds like the set has potential but this set can easily be phazed out by Skarmory. Toxic is needed to slowly kill enemies, fire fang to kill stuff, and roost to heal, so I would suggest replacing mud slap with taunt so he doesn't get taunted/ phazed.
Ah, you should have mentioned that so people aren't confused. The most likely reason Life Orb isn't used in that analysis is because with Substitute, Life Orb and possibly Sandstorm, Gengar is not going to be lasting any reasonable amount of time; a smart player can just phaze it and let the Life Orb damage kill itself over time.
Yeah the damage from SR, LO and sub make him pretty fragile.
Anyway, this is a set i used an age ago, and worked rather well.
Set: ResTalk SpecsDos
@Choice Specs
Nature: Modest (+SpA,-Atk)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Moves:
~Sleep Talk
~Thunderbolt / Discharge
~Heat Wave
~Hidden Power [Grass/Ice] / U-Turn [In case you find HP 70 is too low]
I used this set an age ago on shoddy, and was really effective. Specs raises Zapdos's SpA super high, i really cant be bothered writing stuff, just let me know what you guys think.
Anyway, this is a set i used an age ago, and worked rather well.
Set: ResTalk SpecsDos
@Choice Specs
Nature: Modest (+SpA,-Atk)
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Moves:
~Sleep Talk
~Thunderbolt / Discharge
~Heat Wave
~Hidden Power [Grass/Ice] / U-Turn [In case you find HP 70 is too low]
I used this set an age ago on shoddy, and was really effective. Specs raises Zapdos's SpA super high, i really cant be bothered writing stuff, just let me know what you guys think.
- Status