The Move: Super Fang

I'm really worried about this. I feel like the metagame will be highly unbalanced with all teams either using the new threats or being forced to pack Tyranitars and Rotoms to combat them. I am also sorry to see that now a defensive team can be made so easily obsolete.

Hopefully we won't see too much over-centralization, both of this move, and the 5-10 pokemon that use it effectively.
 
It's going to be an interesting change, at least. Not like we can really predict what is going to happen to the metagame. We tried that when D/P were on their way, and were way off.
 
Kalec said:
It's going to be an interesting change, at least. Not like we can really predict what is going to happen to the metagame. We tried that when D/P were on their way, and were way off.
Click to expand...

D/P was a different case. We were transitioning generations, meaning new moves, pokemon, battle system, items, etc.

We have a general idea now, so while we can't fully predict, educated guesses are possible.
 
OU won't see much change. Maybe Hail Stall might get a bit more love, but since Hail Stall is so shafted by the prevalence of Scizor, not much will happen. Regarding Crobat, well, the Rotom formes are the initial switch-in to Crobat for stall anyways, so not much will happen there.

In Ubers, stall will be weakened. Mew can use Super Fang to lure in Giratina/Giratina-O, and then Taunt to block setups, using Roost or Explosion when it's done. I see a stallbreaker Mew set gaining a great deal of use, but stall will survive. I mean, it survived Darkrai. What can be worse than Darkrai for a defensive player? (Or you can go the Gen Emp route and use Primeape...not knocking on you, though :)).

I have no expertise in UU to comment on it, but UU will definitely be more affected than Ubers.
 
mtr12 said:
I actually don't think Walrein will be helped a lot by Super Fang. Most Gyarados are bulky now, with Leftovers, meaning that they cannot be stalled out by Hail. Many Walrein run Blizzard for the 2HKO after SR (~45% each shot) on Gyarados to ensure that they aren't too bothered by Taunt, which is standard on Gyarados. With Super Fang, Gyarados can begin setting up.

Granted, Super Fang will be a great general utility move that can hit both Gyarados and Tyranitar, but it doesn't deal with them like Surf, Earthquake, or Blizzard.
Click to expand...


Gyrados can't really threaten Walrein unless it's running Taunt + Stone Edge and even then with it can't OHKO w/o Dragon Dance.
 
Legacy Raider said:
Crobat and Walrein seem to be the best recipients of the move. Crobat has a whole host of moves that it can use to great effect alongside Super Fang - Taunt, Roost, Whirlwind, U-turn - and I think it will be a massive threat to defensively inclined teams when paired with a Pursuit user (Weavile with his new Low Kick toy?) to remove Rotom. Crobat's decent defenses, great Speed, Roost, and Taunt in particular mean it can beat the vast majority of defensive Pokemon one on one with Super Fang + an attacking move.

Walrein is annoying enough as it is, but now it can do more than just stall for 32 turns. With the additional damage from the Hail and probably Toxic Spikes, Walrein will probably be able to easily destroy unprepared teams by itself. Remember that it has 110/90/90 defenses (much better than Swampert's) and recovers 12.5% a turn in the Hail. With Super Fang, it has very little need for offensive investment of any sort, and can focus its EVs on its excellent defensive stats to make it even harder to take down.

Nidoqueen is very interesting since it does a great job as it is of countering Lucario, can set up and absorb Toxic Spikes, set up Stealth Rock, and phaze with Roar. Super Fang might give it a considerable boost in usage. It also has access to Shadow Ball and Crunch to deal with Ghost-types that try to take its Super Fang.

This is all theorymon at the moment, but one thing I'm certain of is that Super Fang will have a profound effect on the way several Pokemon are played in OU.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Blissey must now watch her back. Softboiled I suspect will become a requirement, even moreso than now. Despite I have yet to download Shoddy.

However, Super Fang also loses power when you realize that on low-HP hyper-offensive teams, it is outclassed by other moves. I suspect Gengar usage will grow in HO teams, though, because Super Fang still is a heck of a pain to deal with.
 
Tucker said:
Gyrados can't really threaten Walrein unless it's running Taunt + Stone Edge and even then with it can't OHKO w/o Dragon Dance.
Click to expand...

But many if not most of them do have Taunt. LO-Gyara is gradually being phased out in favor of bulkier variants, a process that's been going on for a while now.
 
I somehow wouldn't be surprised that Mismagius would be more overused than Gengar due to the availability of Nasty Plot and neutrality to Azelf's Psychic. Although Gengar, being slightly faster, should still be up there in usages.
 
The idea of Hypnosis + Super Fang is pretty sexy on Crobat, and if you throw in Gravity somewhere from another Pokemon (which lots of Pokemon are now getting), you'll hit with 100% acc as well with both those moves.
 
1059860 said:
I somehow wouldn't be surprised that Mismagius would be more overused than Gengar due to the availability of Nasty Plot and neutrality to Azelf's Psychic. Although Gengar, being slightly faster, should still be up there in usages.
Click to expand...

In terms like this I think it'd be fair to say that gengar would rise along with Mismagius as a revenge killer with its superior speed.
 
Xia said:
Bibarel also lacks the defensive capabilities to do much outside of BP teams. 79/60/60 paired with 71 Speed isn't going to result in a whole lot of movement outside of NU, thanks to priority and the non-defensive typing that is Normal/Water.
Click to expand...

It also happens to be an undiscovered Baton Pass receiver due to Simple (do I suspect a partnership with Ninjask?) but it still isn't all that good, without Sub Passing. Unless it evolves (very unlikely,) we'll make do with all the new users of Super Fang. Especially Crobat and Walrein.
 
With sucker punch and super fang Nidoqueen now has a chance to go up to BL at least. Its defensive stats aren't bad (90/87/85), and paired with super fang and a priority, I'd say it may become quite a threat.
 
Tortferngatr said:
It also happens to be an undiscovered Baton Pass receiver due to Simple (do I suspect a partnership with Ninjask?) but it still isn't all that good, without Sub Passing. Unless it evolves (very unlikely,) we'll make do with all the new users of Super Fang. Especially Crobat and Walrein.
Click to expand...

bibarel is hardly undiscovered, he HAS been around for 2 years now. he just still isn't that good even with Simple.
 
mtr12 said:
But many if not most of them do have Taunt. LO-Gyara is gradually being phased out in favor of bulkier variants, a process that's been going on for a while now.
Click to expand...

While it's true that now, 69% of Gyarados are running Leftover instead of LO, only 29.9% run Taunt. That's a bit far off from most, but it is a considerable number.

The majority still run max ATK/Speed too, rather than a bulkier EV spread.
 
MissyM has the same problem with Gengar in OU, though - Scizor. It has the same 60/60 defense with Gengar and thus just as vulnerable, or maybe even more vulnerable because it's using the turn to power up instead of outright attacking. Since Gengar with 130 base special attack only does about 50% with an 120 BP Focus Blast, I doubt MissyM can do much more with 105 base special attack and 70 BP Hidden Power, even at +2.
 
To be honest, the only real change I see actually happening is a huge rise in Crobat usage in OU, possibly even pushing him up to the cutoff. He's always been one of the more used UU/BL pokemon in OU, but his big problem was that he previously had no real way to deal with the huge amount of steel types in OU (Heatwave notwithstanding) and was too easy to force out. Now that he has a way of instantly knocking off 50% of his counters' health, he seems much more appealing. Not to mention his combination of incredible speed, reasonable bulk, good typing, and instant recovery move means that he can keep coming back in and firing off Super Fangs, U-turning out to cause a little more damage, and occasionally recovering off SR damage with Roost. It seems to me like the sheer utility of Super Fang / U-Turn / Roost / (Brave Bird/Taunt) @ leftovers is easily worth a team slot.

As for the addition of Super Fang to Walrein, while it certainly makes Walrein and Hail teams in general much more dangerous, I don't think it is going to have the same effect on Walrein usage as it will on Crobat's usage. Walrein requires a serious amount of support, and in general, the average player does not want to bother with that. I'm not denying that there are some deadly Hail teams out there, but there's a reason why they are not that common.
 
Don't forget Mew. Super Fang / Taunt / Roost has the potential to do some crazy shit to stall. This is because the only things on Uberstall that can take Super Fang are Giratina and Giratina-O, and both of them are deadweights with Taunt. Then you can use Toxic or go to an attacker to take advantage of what's going on.

Of course, Toxic Spikes screws over this Mew, but you can't have everything, fortunately.
 
Danyul said:
As for the addition of Super Fang to Walrein, while it certainly makes Walrein and Hail teams in general much more dangerous, I don't think it is going to have the same effect on Walrein usage as it will on Crobat's usage. Walrein requires a serious amount of support, and in general, the average player does not want to bother with that. I'm not denying that there are some deadly Hail teams out there, but there's a reason why they are not that common.
Click to expand...

I dunno, Super Fang on Walrein seems like a pretty huge deal to me, given its other attributes. For instance, when I get the chance, I'm thinking of testing out this combo that I outlined here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2207105&postcount=742 . Access to a catch-all attack like Super Fang is a huge blessing for Walrein as it allows plenty of room for its vast array of utility options, allowing Walrein to do the majority of supporting, both for itself and others.
 
mtr12 said:
Don't forget Mew. Super Fang / Taunt / Roost has the potential to do some crazy shit to stall. This is because the only things on Uberstall that can take Super Fang are Giratina and Giratina-O, and both of them are deadweights with Taunt. Then you can use Toxic or go to an attacker to take advantage of what's going on.

Of course, Toxic Spikes screws over this Mew, but you can't have everything, fortunately.
Click to expand...

Won't Mew have some trouble against STAB ghost moves? Girantina I can see but Girantina-O typically carry Shadow Ball/Claw.
 
A lot have Shadow Ball, yes, but after a Taunt, the Mew player can just go to Dialga and threaten a Draco Meteor. But getting the Mew in on Blissey is even better.
 
also, if you know your playing a stall team you might just use taunt first turn either way, or maybe u turn to see who is being brought out. U turning out from a giratina-o to bring in a mixquaza is pretty much byebye to one pokemon on a stall team
 
I'm liking this strategy, but I don't think it'll be too common. Probably around the level of RestTalk.

I can't wait to try it in NU.
 
It's a shame that none of the dark types on the list can learn Pursuit. Nobody that switches a ghost into Super Fang is going to attack something that can also learn Sucker Punch.

Crobat with Super Fang and U-Turn is going to be a biznitch.
 
Hrothgar said:
It's a shame that none of the dark types on the list can learn Pursuit. Nobody that switches a ghost into Super Fang is going to attack something that can also learn Sucker Punch.

Crobat with Super Fang and U-Turn is going to be a biznitch.
Click to expand...

Houndoom gets both Sucker Punch and Pursuit, and now also Super Fang. Anything coming in will be faced with a die if you do die if you don't scenario. I can see a physical Doom (Maybe with Overheat to hit physical walls) working out rather nicely with this tandem of moves. His attack isn't bad at all (Although by no means stellar), and this way he can screw around a fair bit with those who generally switch in to wall him.

Heatran makes him cry though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top