The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"

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Playing Adamant scarf primeape espiacially on a stall team is very dangerous I almost got sweept by a noob using dd ray
The only sad thing is i realized is that jolly is honestly too weak to other ubers i can use in that spot. The only thing it has really done for me is being a reasonable
np rai counter
 
PokemonMasterHSA said:
Playing Adamant scarf primeape espiacially on a stall team is very dangerous I almost got sweept by a noob using dd ray
The only sad thing is i realized is that jolly is honestly too weak to other ubers i can use in that spot. The only thing it has really done for me is being a reasonable
np rai counter
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DD ray seriously? o.O
Anyway: Adamant Scarfprimeape packs the power needed for Ubers, whilst Jolly is as a fact to weak then.
But running a scarfprimeape on a stall team is weird though <_<; and yeah, it's a great NPrai counter, (Or actually all sets) that's the reason why I run, I'm weak to it.
 
Although I personally would never use a Scarf-Primape lead, I can say that it's not totally crap. Against Groudon leads, U-turning to a Giratina-o is ok, as most Groudon will Earthquake, seeing has how Primeape has a piddling 60 Defense and 65 base HP. Then, you can set up a Sub to block status or Calm Mind if you predict a Dragon Claw. Kyogres would of course Surf or Water Spout, and the Kyogre you switch in can Thunder while the opposing Kyogre must either move second if it's the Thunder Wave lead, or use a not very effective attack if it's a Choice Scarf Kyogre lead. STAB super-effective Close Combat will very likely kill a Dialga, and U-turning Deoxys and following with BP is a great way to check a Deoxys lead. Darkrai is hopefully not a problem.
That being said, a Primape is pretty much deadweight against Stall, as Giratina-a and Lugia completely wall a Primeape, even its Super-effective moves.
 
Private Piplup said:
Although I personally would never use a Scarf-Primape lead, I can say that it's not totally crap. Against Groudon leads, U-turning to a Giratina-o is ok, as most Groudon will Earthquake, seeing has how Primeape has a piddling 60 Defense and 65 base HP. Then, you can set up a Sub to block status or Calm Mind if you predict a Dragon Claw. Kyogres would of course Surf or Water Spout, and the Kyogre you switch in can Thunder while the opposing Kyogre must either move second if it's the Thunder Wave lead, or use a not very effective attack if it's a Choice Scarf Kyogre lead. STAB super-effective Close Combat will very likely kill a Dialga, and U-turning Deoxys and following with BP is a great way to check a Deoxys lead. Darkrai is hopefully not a problem.
That being said, a Primape is pretty much deadweight against Stall, as Giratina-a and Lugia completely wall a Primeape, even its Super-effective moves.
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Underlined is what's why it's awesome as lead.
And yeah, that's also a nice addition; The fact that Primeape got crap defences (Wow how could that be a good point lol). Usually people get lazy and just attack to kill that annoying till with -1 defences...

U-turn out, and if REALLY needed, Icepunch.....(If you need to sacrifice something)
 
I believe I have discovered a Latios set that is quite useful.

Latios@Soul Dew
Timid, 252 SpAttk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Draco Meteor
Thunder
Hidden Power (Fire)
Protect

I had previously run Recover over Protect, but Latios doesn't really ever have time to Recover as you would rather be getting the KO or switching. Draco Meteor OHKO's Groudon and offensive Dialga, Thunder severely damages Kyogre but just misses the OHKO but it is guaranteed by Stealth Rocks on non-tank Kyogre. Protect lets you win the mind-games posed by Scizor every time, allowing you to scout its move, and either switching to safety or OHKO'ing with HP Fire. Of course, this set is totally walled by Blissey, but I have never had trouble with that. Tickle-Pursuit and Darkrai are good ways of dealing with Blissey. Also, Latios can take care of whatever is stopping Specs Kyogre from sweeping and Specs Kyogre can easily 2HKO a Blissey. If you're in a pinch, Latios can survive a Palkia's Spacial Rend and reply with a STAB Dragon attack. Latios is highly underrated and overlooked sweeper. It is a BEAST. Try it out before you say anything (this goes for compliments too).
 
I do have to say HOLY **** at some of the HG/SS additions. Quagsire might see more play now that it has Recover.

Mewtwo with Magic Coat seems pretty interesting.

Mew got Pain Split and Heal Bell.

Kyogre getting Block and Auqa Ring are interesting, but nothing too game-breaking.

Getting hit by a Max Spec'd Palkia Hydro Pump in Rain does sound pretty scary. It even has a chance of 2HKOing 4HP/252SpD Calm Blissey even WITHOUT rocks (48.77% - 57.52%), and a pretty good chance of 2HKOing without, but of course, there's the accuracy issue to call into question. Surf is just plain more reliable so it probably wont make too much of a splash.

Darkrai gets Headbutt. It also got NP in Platinum so it can't complain about not getting anything. Moving on.

Groudon also got Block. It got Lava Plume too, I guess he might be able to use it in the Groudon Mirror. Nothing significant.

Wobbuffet got nothing.

Dialga got Metal Burst, again, nothing too significant.

Rayquaza got Tailwind. Eh, again, nothing really signfiicant. Air Slash might have some situational uses on a Specs set, but other than that, not really.

Scizor got Bug Bite, making him have the strongest Bug attack that isn't a Heracross Megahorn (it's 60 base power exactly, so 135 after Technician and STAB), so now he officially has no more reason to use X-Scissor. Still, most Scizor use U-Turn anyway.

Deoxys got nothing significant.

Forretress got... HOLY ****: Pain Split, Gravity, Block, Bug Bite, Power Trick. Has a whole lot of new toys to play with, and is going to be even more annoying to take out, especially in Ubers where there's less of a reason to carry Magnezone.

Giratina also got some major improvements. Pain Split for healing, Gravity for... stuff. Giratina got a major buff with Shadow Sneak as a priority attack for Physical sets. Magic Coat to block a predicted status. And Destiny Bond for even more improvements.

Garchomp. NOthing significant.

Lugia. Nothing Significant. Except maybe being able to hit Forretress with WEather Ball while in the Sun or Ho-Oh with it in the Rain.

Blissey learned Heal Bell through Move Tutor. Dayum. Blissey has Wish AND Heal Bell now. Ultimate Cleric FTW, now it's more important than ever to take out that fat bitch ASAP.

Lucario. Nothing Significant.

Jirachi. Learned Gravity, which'll probably help it in OU with 100% accurate Thunders that have a 60% paralysis rate. Otherwise in Ubers, wont make much of a splash.

Ho-Oh learned Brave Bird, giving it a stronger back up STAB, but I don't think it'll be enough to push its usage up significantly.

Tyranitar learned Block, but not much of a significant add-on.

Manaphy learned Heal Bell. Eh.

I think I covered most of the significant Ubers.

My thoughts on who the most improved are: Giratina, Forretress, and Blissey, no question, with Quagsire possibly getting a chance to shine in Ubers.
 
jirachi had gravity before HG/SS

with the two most common stall cores being boosted, stall could get more use, but most of the HG/SS will change much. Other than more gravity, there really isn't any difference.
 
giratina getting pain split doesnt really matter much. Would anyone here actually use pain split on giratina over Rest/Sleep Talk/ Will-o-Wisp / (Roar, Dragon Pulse etc)
 
Maybe to fit in a second coverage move for steels, or so you can run both roar and Dragon Pulse. It does add a bit to Giratina's versatility and I can see some offensive Giratina-O making use of it on a CM Set over Sub (Blissey won't want to switch in after a few CMs because it will be KO'ed).

What I think is really underratted is Brave Bird Ho-oh. It can KO 4 HP Kyogre if Ho-oh is choice Banded, with Rocks up. Can anyone say ultimate Kyogre Lure? What kind of person leaves Ho-oh alive with the Sun up anyway? Since Kyogre is Omnipresent in Ubers, I'm pretty sure that Sun based, and to an extent Sand Based teams could now use Ho-oh to lure Kyogre, remove or cripple it, then proceed to sweep using Sun/Sand Abusers. In fact, anyteam that doesn't have a sure fire Kyogre Counter could make good use of it.
 
Dialga, Mewtwo, and Palkia getting Gravity seems pretty signifigant. It means offensive Gravity Teams could be a decent threat, as those 3 all have inaccuate power attacks (Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder w/o rain, etc) and Palkia can use Hydro Pump with out fear. Of coarse, wasting a turn every 5 turns to keep it going sucks...

Although they can't really afford the moveslot, Lead Mewtwo (non-scarf) and possibly the Latis may run Magic Coat for random Darkrai protection.

Heal bell on Blissey is the only other move I see appealing. Overall, I don't think ubers will really change much, HGSS is only giving some pokes a little extra trick to have up their sleeve for the most part.

On a last note, I'm not so sure Ho-oh will do any better with Brave Bird. SR + recoil will destroy the poor thing. Sure it can roost, but SR alone already means a turn of roosting must be done to survive.
 
Ho-Oh's not gonna OHKO Kyogre with Brave Bird without a Choice Band and being Jolly since being Adamant is no guarantee that it's gonna outspeed Kyogre. And not to mention Ho-Oh's also gonna take major damage in the process, especially if it switched into Stealth Rock.
 
Pain Split on Forry is great, just because everyone in Ubers has such massive HP. But Forretress already suffers from 4-slot syndrome a bit, so I don't think it will matter a lot.
 
XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2 said:
Ho-Oh's not gonna OHKO Kyogre with Brave Bird without a Choice Band and being Jolly since being Adamant is no guarantee that it's gonna outspeed Kyogre. And not to mention Ho-Oh's also gonna take major damage in the process, especially if it switched into Stealth Rock.
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Ho-Oh is of course, not switching into Kyogre. Kyogre in-turn, has a tough time switching in to Ho-Oh now. What set do you expect most Ho-Ohs to run now with Brave Bird? Life Orb is suicide, and a more defensive set will probably forgo Brave Bird altogether.

That said, even 252 HP Kyogre falls to a Jolly Choice Band Brave Bird, if SRs are up. Adamant gives a small chance of a OHKO, and of course, if Kyogre is only running 4 HP, Adamant OHKOs with ease.. whereas Jolly is better than 50/50.
 
EvilMario said:
Ho-Oh is of course, not switching into Kyogre. Kyogre in-turn, has a tough time switching in to Ho-Oh now. What set do you expect most Ho-Ohs to run now with Brave Bird? Life Orb is suicide, and a more defensive set will probably forgo Brave Bird altogether.
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I don't know, I think a LO set might be possible for Ho-oh, but it would probably need Roost as well as the obvious spin support. There's no denying that Brave Bird is an incredibly useful addition for Ho-oh, as not only does it provide a strong attacking option for Kyogre, but Palkia, Rayquaza, Giratina-O, Garchomp, Latias, Latios and Kingdra too, amongst other less common Pokes. It is also a reliably strong attack no matter what the weather, let's not forget. As for the debilitating recoil, why not try looking at it another way: if the recoil ever becomes a huge issue, then it means that Ho-oh has already killed something.

Maybe even a SubRoost set with Life Orb could see use, with Brave Bird and Sacred Fire as the two attacks. The only real use Ho-oh has for Earthquake is Tyranitar, and possibly Dialga in the rain. But if you can predict Kyogre and kill it with Brave Bird, rain should be less of an issue, whilst Tyranitar is constantly in fear of a burn. I assume that every team that has Ho-oh will also have Groudon and Forretress, but a set with Roost would mean that Ho-oh has at least a chance of surviving even if you don't get an opportunity to spin.

That's how I see Ho-oh with Brave Bird anyway.
 
So do I seem to be the first one who has tried Skill Swap on Lugia (or anything else)? (Because I saw that SS is glitched here and it doesn't work(I have reported it)). I couldnt switch out of Wobb

- Featherdance
- Icy Wind
- Skill Swap
- Roost

Some unusual moves heh. IW drops the speed of some stuff while Feather Dance helps vs Lucario and Metagross more than Reflect. Thunder would be good here for paralysis but then Garchomp beats you easily...
 
EvilMario said:
Ho-Oh is of course, not switching into Kyogre. Kyogre in-turn, has a tough time switching in to Ho-Oh now. What set do you expect most Ho-Ohs to run now with Brave Bird? Life Orb is suicide, and a more defensive set will probably forgo Brave Bird altogether.

That said, even 252 HP Kyogre falls to a Jolly Choice Band Brave Bird, if SRs are up. Adamant gives a small chance of a OHKO, and of course, if Kyogre is only running 4 HP, Adamant OHKOs with ease.. whereas Jolly is better than 50/50.
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Never said Ho-Oh was switching into Kyogre, that would be stupid. I was referring to the fact Ho-Oh would be taking major damage from the Recoil alone even if it hits Brave Bird on a Pokemon in Ubers, NOT TO MENTION if it switched in (not necessarly on Kyogre) to Stealth Rock. Also, 252 HP Kyogre takes 79.95% - 94.06% from 252 Atk Jolly CB Brave Bird, so even then it stands a greater-than 50% chance at surviving even if Kyogre switched into Stealth Rock.

Life Orb Adamant Ho-Oh DOES OHKO 4 HP Kyogre with STealth Rock though.
 
I feel like I've been seeing more baton pass kind of teams lately and they've been a bitch to fight. I'm trying to come up with ways to beat the dual screen mew bp setup. PokemonMasterHSA suggested a really fast scarfer like Darkrai or Mewtwo that can use trick, but I can't think of too many other things. Anyone else been having trouble with these kind of teams?
 
cmurph said:
I feel like I've been seeing more baton pass kind of teams lately and they've been a bitch to fight. I'm trying to come up with ways to beat the dual screen mew bp setup. PokemonMasterHSA suggested a really fast scarfer like Darkrai or Mewtwo that can use trick, but I can't think of too many other things. Anyone else been having trouble with these kind of teams?
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Taunt.

Also, Mew with heal bell? Could he function like Celebi now?

Didn't Blissey already have Aromatherapy?

EDIT: I don't see anything about Power Trick on the move tutor list...
 
-Axis- said:
Taunt.

Also, Mew with heal bell? Could he function like Celebi now?

Didn't Blissey already have Aromatherapy?

EDIT: I don't see anything about Power Trick on the move tutor list...
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But now Blissey can get Healbell (Same affect as Aromatherapy) and Wish together ;3
 
so wish, protect, heal bell and......

seems like a pretty useless blissey set to me as with only one move that actually does something its just pure set up bait
 
ultimifier said:
so wish, protect, heal bell and......

seems like a pretty useless blissey set to me as with only one move that actually does something its just pure set up bait
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Blissey is almost always set-up bait <_<; as long as you got sub for status your good to go (Mismagius ftw). And icebeam/flamethrower is doing laughable damage even with specs (lol)
 
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