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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4

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StallBat

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Jolly 160 Hp/96 Def/252 Spe

- Super Fang
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Substitute/Taunt

At first glance, it may seem the generic sub roost set zapdos can run but this set prevents set up, while it racks a lot of residual damage coupled with Super Fang. Once entry hazards are up (this set is stall oriented), start whirlwind to scout for a ghost or super fang whatever is switching. Rinse, roost, repeat. Like with any stall team, you will need a pursuiter that can trap a ghost. Other than that, this Crobat will be a nice addition to any stall team.
 
IcyMan28 said:
Anyone?
Click to expand...

These results are factoring in a +Att nature with Life Orb:

You can achieve similar results with Rock Smash, if scoring a Defense Drop against Blissey. You'll also always 2HKO 4HP Tyranitar with it, defense drop, or not. You stand a good chance of 2HKOing 164HP Tyranitar too, and a small chance against 252HP Tyranitar, not factoring in defense drops, or SR.

A defense drop from Rock Smash, in coordination with U-Turn could be interesting (it will hurt Swampert, leaving him in good KO range for a decent neutral attack, as an example. It also gives you the chance to U-Turn away from things like Tyranitar, and Blissey if you think they're running very bulky Defensive sets, or didn't score the Def drop), but is probably not worth it because Roost has to be there to keep Zapdos alive from Life Orb recoil, Stealth Rocks and probably a -SpDef nature.

Disclaimer: The above are real damage calculations, but in theory, this set is probably not as useful as most.
 
Can I please get some thoughts on an Umbreon with Heal Bell?

I'm thinking...

Careful nature
@ Leftovers
252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Yawn / Toxic / Mean Look
- Baton Pass

Any thoughts?
 
Marzbar said:
Can I please get some thoughts on an Umbreon with Heal Bell?

I'm thinking...

Careful nature
@ Leftovers
252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Yawn / Toxic / Mean Look
- Baton Pass

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I suggest not making this also a Mean Look Passer, probably should be something more like Heal Bell/Wish/Toxic/Payback. Otherwise you're too vulnerable to Taunt. Also, I think Vaporeon does this better due to the coverage of Surf+Toxic and the and the ability to gain free switch-ins from Water Absorb.
 
Crobat @ Wide Lens / Focus sash
- U-turn
- Super Fang
- Hypnosis
- Heat Wave
Nature : Jolly
EVs : 252 Speed / 252 SpAttack / 4 HP

What do you think of this ?
I've tested it in a team and it completely owns.
It cripples everything, and Heat Wave + Super Fang is a KO on Jirachi, Gross, etc :)
Plus Heat Wave surprises A BIT Scizor.
 
That's true, I need a Modest nature :)
You know, Metagross leads aren't often OccaBerry holders, and if they are, it would bring them to 21-22% after Fang + Heat wave, so they're in the KO zone, just revenge kill it :)
 
Agammemnon said:
That's true, I need a Modest nature :)
You know, Metagross leads aren't often OccaBerry holders, and if they are, it would bring them to 21-22% after Fang + Heat wave, so they're in the KO zone, just revenge kill it :)
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I don't believe that's true, OccaGross is easily the most common Gross lead I see.
 
I don't know if these MoveSets already are, so:

Standard
Quagsire@ Leftovers
Impish nature
EVs: 252 HP/ 96 Atk/ 160 Def
- Toxic
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

The Standard Quagsire have now access to Recover.

Stockpiler
Quagsire@ Leftovers
Relaxed nature
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 SpD/ 4 Def
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Toxic/ Yawn
- Earthquake/ Yawn

New Stockpile + Recover can became useful but as in Stockpilotamus Toxic is a problem.

Nasty Plot
Mismagius@ Leftovers/ Life Orb
Timid/ Modest
EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
- Shadow Ball
- HP Fight
- Substitute/ Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot

It's impressionant in UU thanks to Nasty Plot.

Wall Breaker
Honchkrow@ Life Orb
Naïve nature
EVs: 48 SpA/ 216 Spe/ 248 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Superpower
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch

Heat Wave is 2HKO to Skarmory. 248 Atk EVs are useful for OHKOing Blissey and Brave Bird is its new move.

Dragon Dancer
Crawdaunt@ Leftovers/ Life Orb
Adamant/ Jolly nature
EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Superpower/ Taunt

Crunch + Waterfall + DD should to work very good in UU, while Taunt stops W-o-W.

Curser
Cradily@ Leftovers
Careful nature
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 SpD/ 4 Def
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide/ Stone Edge
- Recover

Awesome with Curse + SS.
 
Some nice sets above ^^

Just a little support lanturn set I thought of

PKMN-Lanturn
Ev's-40 HP / 36 Spe / 192 SpA / 240 SpD
Nature-Calm
Item-Leftovers
Moves-Surf/hydro pump
Icebeam/Thunderbolt
Thunderwave
Heal bell

Toxic or rest could work instead of thunderwave
 
This Venusaur set can be an useful late game sweeper in UU:

venusaur-m.png

Venusaur @ Salac Berry
Adamant Nature
252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spd
-Power Whip
-Return
-Substitute
-Sword Dance

The idea is bringing Venusaur in something that would switch from him or cannot break his subs and use Substitute. If the oponnent brings something faster than Venusaur I keep using substitute until activate Salac Berry and then Sword Dance, if is slower, than I use SD and keep subing. When Salac Berry is activated Venusaur will gain a boost from Overgrowth and Power Whip will become a 180BP STAB attack. With 388 Spd (enough to outspeed Jolly Swellow), 578 Atk and a 180BP STAB Atk, Venusaur can sweep entire teams once steel types are removed and some bulky grass-types (like Venusaur itself and Tangrowth) are weakned.
This set is totally walled by steel types, so it's better running Dugtrio as Venusaur partner to take out steel types before bringing Venusaur. Also, the immunity to Toxic Spikes and resisting to Aqua Jet, Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave allows Venusaur to pull this set better than others Sub Salac sets.
 
I'm playing around with the idea of a trap and toxic stall Cloyster.

goes like this:

91.png


Cloyster @ leftovers
Skill Link
Careful nature
252 Hp/Sp.D, 6 Atk

Whirlpool
Toxic
Dive
Ice Shard

bring Cloyster in on something ineffectual and trap them or the incoming counter with whirlpool. (skill link guarantees a 5 turn trap). fire off a toxic and proceed to dive and stall. use ice shard to finish off a weakened opponent.
 
aykay said:
I'm playing around with the idea of a trap and toxic stall Cloyster.

goes like this:

91.png


Cloyster @ leftovers
Skill Link
Careful nature
252 Hp/Sp.D, 6 Atk

Whirlpool
Toxic
Dive
Ice Shard

bring Cloyster in on something ineffectual and trap them or the incoming counter with whirlpool. (skill link guarantees a 5 turn trap). fire off a toxic and proceed to dive and stall. use ice shard to finish off a weakened opponent.
Click to expand...

I am not sure where you are aiming this set in terms of tier. Regardless, the main problem is the poor special defense, even maxed out, and weakness to two common special attack types: Grass and Electric.

In OU, the switch-in to Cloyster will almost always be a Thunderbolt user such as a Rotom Forme. The standard Rotom-H build, with no SpA EVs, has a guaranteed 2HKO against this Cloyster. In August, around 1 in 5 Rotoms on the ladder also packed Rest to ditch the Toxic and its residual damage. In addition, a typical SpecsJolt will effortlessly OHKO, with similar results from many Grass types or sweepers carrying Grass Knot for coverage.

In UU, the most common Pokemon is Roserade, which almost never fails to OHKO with Energy Ball. Many UU teams carry others who can at least count on a 2HKO, if not the OHKO, including Porygon2, Electrode, and Venusaur.

In NU, I can imagine it will probably be very difficult to punch through Cloyster without a Manectric or something. Teams are unlikely to have more than one hard counter, so it might not be that difficult to set up.

On the whole, Cloyster is just too easily countered. Bulky Waters, at least in OU, mostly have both defenses in the 80-100+ range. Trading down to 45 SpD in exchange for the outrageous defense Cloyster has just doesn't cut it. That's why most Cloysters run a support set that switches into a physical threat, spins or lays hazards, and gets out. It is just not a good stall Pokemon.
 
aykay said:
I'm playing around with the idea of a trap and toxic stall Cloyster.

goes like this:

91.png


Cloyster @ leftovers
Skill Link
Careful nature
252 Hp/Sp.D, 6 Atk

Whirlpool
Toxic
Dive
Ice Shard

bring Cloyster in on something ineffectual and trap them or the incoming counter with whirlpool. (skill link guarantees a 5 turn trap). fire off a toxic and proceed to dive and stall. use ice shard to finish off a weakened opponent.
Click to expand...
Skill Link != Grip Claw.

That said, I've used a Skill Link: Screech/Rock Blast/Explosion/Ice Shard Cloyster to great success.
EDIT: Fixed, because I failed to remember the right move. D:
 
Res Ipsa Loquitur said:
I am not sure where you are aiming this set in terms of tier. Regardless, the main problem is the poor special defense, even maxed out, and weakness to two common special attack types: Grass and Electric.

In OU, the switch-in to Cloyster will almost always be a Thunderbolt user such as a Rotom Forme. The standard Rotom-H build, with no SpA EVs, has a guaranteed 2HKO against this Cloyster. In August, around 1 in 5 Rotoms on the ladder also packed Rest to ditch the Toxic and its residual damage. In addition, a typical SpecsJolt will effortlessly OHKO, with similar results from many Grass types or sweepers carrying Grass Knot for coverage.

In UU, the most common Pokemon is Roserade, which almost never fails to OHKO with Energy Ball. Many UU teams carry others who can at least count on a 2HKO, if not the OHKO, including Porygon2, Electrode, and Venusaur.

In NU, I can imagine it will probably be very difficult to punch through Cloyster without a Manectric or something. Teams are unlikely to have more than one hard counter, so it might not be that difficult to set up.

On the whole, Cloyster is just too easily countered. Bulky Waters, at least in OU, mostly have both defenses in the 80-100+ range. Trading down to 45 SpD in exchange for the outrageous defense Cloyster has just doesn't cut it. That's why most Cloysters run a support set that switches into a physical threat, spins or lays hazards, and gets out. It is just not a good stall Pokemon.
Click to expand...

well, I would never suggest bringing cloyster into OU, but the current (well, as of august) UU metagame only has like 15 special attackers in the top 50, of those 15 maybe 5 will carry t-bolt and 3 carry grass knot. also, roserade's energy ball is headed to OU.

anyway, everything has it's faults and it's counters. this cloyster would probably do a lot better on a team with screen support to redouble his meager Sp.D, or even toxic spikes so he doesn't have to waste a turn (or potentially more, if toxic wants to miss). but once you get his counter out of the way, this guy has potential.

edit* just realized what lorak had pointed out. so skill link has no effect on whirlpool or clamp? that's really too bad. out of curiousity, if a pokemon uses whirlpool and switches, does the whirlpool effect wear off, or will it continue?
 
aykay said:
edit* just realized what lorak had pointed out. so skill link has no effect on whirlpool or clamp? that's really too bad. out of curiousity, if a pokemon uses whirlpool and switches, does the whirlpool effect wear off, or will it continue?
Click to expand...
Right, and yes, it stops as soon as you switch out/are forced to switch out (Roar, Whirlwind, etc.).
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
Waterfall Cloyster? Explain yourself.
Click to expand...
I remembered the moveset incorrectly. Going to go check what that fourth move actually is, but I do remember max Attack Adamant Cloyster had just about double the Sp.Atk it could muster.
EDIT: Screech, to either trigger switches or hit harder.
 
Toxifang

Toxicroak (Mild/Rash) Att: 252, SpA: 252
@ Life Orb or Black Belt
-Super Fang
-Vacuum Wave
-Sucker Punch
-Toxic

With some handy resistances and a water immunity, it's not too hard to get this guy in. Super Fang on the switch then use priority to finish off the weakened opponent. Toxic is for walls that lack EQ who think they can stall 'croak with recovery moves. Life Orb boost both attacks and the water healing helps recover the recoil for multiple switches. If the recoil is too much, use black belt to help boost the weaker stab Vacuum Wave. Works that much better if SR is on the field. Works great in tandem with Skarmory.
 
A mixed LukeBoah set:

Lucario @ Leftovers
Naive
Inner Focus
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpAtk
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Ice Punch
-Hidden Power Grass

I would explain but it seems really obvious. Just a subpuncher. Max out Attack for loadsa damage. Speed + Naive nature means that it outspeeds most Gliscor, who are EVd to outspeed 252 Spe neutral nature Luke, and deal massive damage with Ice Punch. HP grass is for Hippowdon and Swampert who otherwise wall this set.

I'll playtest and do some damage calcs.
 
Trick Lead Drifblim

Drifblim @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Trick
- Substitute
- Calm Mind / Stockpile
- Baton Pass

This may look odd at first, but the true brilliance will soon dawn upon you. Using Trick alongside Unburden, you'll be able to lock the opposing lead into a single move, losing your Choice Scarf, and gaining, hopefully, Leftovers, or in some cases, Focus Band. Even though you gain another item, Unburden still activates, meaning you get the +50% speed the Choice Scarf gave you, yet you aren't locked into a single move.

There's the ingeniousness of it, now, we go in more detail. So now what, they opponent is hopefully locked into Stealth Rock, forcing a switch, on the switch you're free to set up a Sub off of Drifblims ENORMOUS 504 HP, giving it a huge 126 HP Sub, from here, depending on what the opponent brought in, you can either pass it right away, or you can stay in, on say, a special attacker (if you're using CM) or either (if you're using Stockpile), in which case you'll use the boost up move before the attack (+50% Speed remember?), which if you're lucky, will give Driflbim enough bulk for them to not be able to break the sub, in which case you can use it again, then set up another sub and pass it on.

The EVs are meant for Drifblim to outspeed Max Speed Aerodactyl, meaning it will outspeed everything bar Ninjask without a Scarf. The rest of the EVs are dumped into HP for bigger subs, and the rest into Defense to take Bullet Punches from Metagross easier.
 
I3east said:
Trick Lead Drifblim

Drifblim @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 234 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Trick
- Substitute
- Calm Mind / Stockpile
- Baton Pass
Click to expand...

Unburden actually doubles your speed, so you essentially only need like 8 speed EVs with a neutral nature to outspeed Aerodactyl. However, you are tricking a scarf onto the lead ones, so in that case, you'll never outspeed them. Aerodactyl hits 591 speed with a Choice Scarf and max speed +Drifblim with Unburden will only reach 568.

Edit: Blah unless you mean outspeed Aerodactyl while you're holding a Choice Scarf. In that case you only need 176 speed EVs with a Timid nature to outspeed Aerodactyl at first.
 
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