This set takes 2 turns to set up. One for Calm Mind, and one for Gravity. However, you might as well just use Calm Mind twice, as a +2 Ice Beam is more powerful than a +1 Blizzard. Thunder often has 100% accuracy anyway, do to the ubiquity of Kyogre. A better set would simply be Calm Mind / Aura Sphere / Thunder / Ice Beam.
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4
- Thread starter darkie
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This set takes 2 turns to set up. One for Calm Mind, and one for Gravity. However, you might as well just use Calm Mind twice, as a +2 Ice Beam is more powerful than a +1 Blizzard. Thunder often has 100% accuracy anyway, do to the ubiquity of Kyogre. A better set would simply be Calm Mind / Aura Sphere / Thunder / Ice Beam.
Well thats why you have team support.
Also I have been messing around with Aqua Ring Kyogre, and I have built a nasty set as a shuffler. I tested this for a bit and I have found it to be incredibly dangerous. May be gimmick, but who cares?
Thunder Wave Shuffler
Kyogre@ Leftovers
Drizzle
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
252 HP/12 SpA/236 SpD/8 Spe
~Aqua Ring
~Surf
~Roar
~Thunder Wave
Common phazers in Ubers include Lugia, Groudon and Skarmory. With Kyogre's insane bulk and access to moves such as Roar and Thunder Wave it can beat all of these 1 on 1. The first step is to set Aqua Ring up, increasing you survivability. The only hope of stopping this thing is phazing it out or trying to wall it. By crippling Lugia you are able to phaze it out faster and then paralyzing your opponent's next switch in.
Surf is there for STAB. The rest of the moves are self explanatory. Generally Kyogre will not enjoy taking boosted physical moves, however set up sweepers like Swords Dance Lucario or Rayquaza can be paralyzed or Roared out. It can also make life much easier for your late game sweeper such as Nasty Plot Darkrai.
Because Kyogre does not like physical moves much, pair it up with Skarmory or Groudon to take those attacks. Together you can form a deadly phazing combo that is basically unstoppable.
Comments? Suggestions?
Well thats why you have team support.
Also I have been messing around with Aqua Ring Kyogre, and I have built a nasty set as a shuffler. I tested this for a bit and I have found it to be incredibly dangerous. May be gimmick, but who cares?
Thunder Wave Shuffler
Kyogre@ Leftovers
Drizzle
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
252 HP/12 SpA/236 SpD/8 Spe
~Aqua Ring
~Surf
~Roar
~Thunder Wave
Common phazers in Ubers include Lugia, Groudon and Skarmory. With Kyogre's insane bulk and access to moves such as Roar and Thunder Wave it can beat all of these 1 on 1. The first step is to set Aqua Ring up, increasing you survivability. The only hope of stopping this thing is phazing it out or trying to wall it. By crippling Lugia you are able to phaze it out faster and then paralyzing your opponent's next switch in.
Surf is there for STAB. The rest of the moves are self explanatory. Generally Kyogre will not enjoy taking boosted physical moves, however set up sweepers like Swords Dance Lucario or Rayquaza can be paralyzed or Roared out. It can also make life much easier for your late game sweeper such as Nasty Plot Darkrai.
Because Kyogre does not like physical moves much, pair it up with Skarmory or Groudon to take those attacks. Together you can form a deadly phazing combo that is basically unstoppable.
Comments? Suggestions?
Water types that can learn Thunder Wave have always been a favorite of mine, and Kyogre is no acception(Drizzle helps as Garchomp hates Surf in the rain). Seems like a very cool set that I will have to try out.
That set seems awesome not only to cripple Lugia, but it also can lure in a Palkia (commonly Scarfed) and cripple it with Thunder Wave. It looks like the kind of cornerstone that a full team could be built around. My only issue is that Aqua Ring seems like almost an afterthought. The turn spent setting it up seems like it would be largely wasted if/when your opponent brings in an easy physical threat. As such, it might be better served by adding in an extra coverage move, such as Thunder, to deal with certain things that this set has issues with.
Thanks for the feedback! It can cause a lot of disruption for set up Pokemon.
Thanks, I will try that out. I usually dislike only having one attack, and having something to hit other Kyogres trying to come in and screw you up.
How 'bout that. Absolutely needs Gravity but combines power and speed, while supporting someone like Garchomp who could CB Earthquake for the next few turns.
EVs: 252 Att / 252 Spd / 4 Def (looking for a new spread..)
Nature: Jolly
~Torment
~Protect
~Waterfall
~Dragon Dance
This set aims to mess up Gyarados' usual Wall Counters (obvious exception to Water Absorb Pokemon), and wreck havoc any opponent that has an abundance of Choiced Pokemon.
The idea is simple; Come in on a Pokemon Gyarados frightens out, and Dragon Dance per usual. Protect next turn against the incoming Rock/Electric attack, then Torment the next turn to cause the move to fail. In combonation with Protect, this will more often than not net Gyarados one, or more extra Dragon Dances.
Protect/Torment allows Gyarados a way to force it main counter out, and recover HP along the way. A bulkier spread, focusing less on attack can be used to take strong neutral hits, although I've yet to decide what would work best.
This Gyarados obviously must be aware of a few Pokemon. Anything sitting at the 100 base speed class holding a Choice Scarf has the potential to outrun Gyarados after a Dragon Dance. The player must use caution if the switch in is one of these offensive threats, and not a wall.
Secondly, this Gyarados benefits from having a Pokemon (or two) with Trick on your team. I've been leading with a Trick Jirachi off the bat; Gyarados protects Jirachi's common Fire and Ground weakness, and appreciates the opponent being stuck to a single move. I'm going to try and use more Trickers in the future, because it is such a great benefit for a Gyarados. It should be noted that Scarf is the safest Trick, but you must be careful about Tricking it onto something like Jolteon which can then easily outspeed Gyarados.
The third element to using this Gyarados is having multiple ways to dispatch bulky waters, but most importantly, Vaporeon. As Gyarados is mono-attacking, anything with Water Absorb is automatically Game Over. While Gyarados can eventually over many bulky waters that fail to carry more than one Super Effective move, he will never succeed without support. Jolteon has been my primary support for dealing directly with most, and Kingdra assist in opening holes in the likes of Vaporeon and Miltoic with Outrage.
And lastly, Gyarados should be aware of Pokemon that carry two attacks that will hurt him. While it's not common to find Rock/Electric combonation, Gyarados is more concerned about the Electric/Will-O-Wisp combonation found on a fair few Pokemon.. none more common than the Rotom forms. A smart Rotom player will catch on quickly to Torment, and will cripple Gyarados. It would be better to switch in your Rotom counter, than take a chance on losing one of your primary sweepers.
I really think the set could work wonders in a metagame where everything and its brother is Choiced. Let me know if you have any success with it!
As far as I'm concerned, Torment should only prevent the selection of a move- meaning you'd still get hit by such Rock or Electric attack. So unless you Torment them during the switch in, I don't think the set really works.
That is, unless the actual Smogon description is wrong and Torment really does prevent the execution of such move.
Torment is glitched on Shoddy Battle, which is why it prevents the execution of the move.
That Gyarados set looks like it has a lot of potential. It would probably best to Torment on the switch instead. That way, if they send in a Scarf Gengar or Latias, you can just Protect on the Thunderbolt and then Dragon Dance when they Struggle. (Unless this isn't how Torment works, that move still confuses the heck out of me ;_;).
You could probably reduce the speed EVs down to 224. This will let you outspeed Timid Scarf Heatran after DD. You could even go as low as 168, which lets you still outspeed Timid Jolteon after DD. Scarf Heatran shouldn't be a problem if you Torment on the switch, or just Protect on Explosion.
You could probably reduce the speed EVs down to 224. This will let you outspeed Timid Scarf Heatran after DD. You could even go as low as 168, which lets you still outspeed Timid Jolteon after DD. Scarf Heatran shouldn't be a problem if you Torment on the switch, or just Protect on Explosion.
Such a shame if it is glitched. :(
Feraligatr @ Liechi Berry / Salac Berry
Torrent
Adamant
252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
~ Substitute
~ Swords Dance
~ Aqua Jet / Waterfall
~ Flail / Ice Punch
I believe the SubSweeping set of Feraligatr needs to be changed. First things first maximize Attack with an Adamant nature and 252 Atk EVs. The rest of the EVs are invested into Speed and HP.
Come in on something relatively light for Feraligatr since he has a decent bulk, and begin the Substitute, mixing in a Swords Dance here and there. Once he gets down to Torrent levels he can unleash an Aqua Jet that's backed by STAB, Liechi Berry, and the Swords Dances. If you run Salac Berry then Waterfall may be your STAB choice move, as Salac Berry and Aqua Jet on the same set is somewhat redundant. Aqua Jet would much rather have the Liechi boost.
The last slot is for hitting what you want how you want to. Flail, will hit smash things with Feraligatrs low HP, and hits Grass, Water, and Dragon-types for neutral damage. Ice Punch is also an option, but it leaves vulnerable to bulky Waters such as Milotic and Slowbro. Return can be considered in place of Flail. Earthquake also receives a note because it can hit Steelix and Registeel harder than Aqua Jet / Waterfall would, although it's typical purpose to punish Electric-types is somewhat neglected due to Rotom being the only common Electric in UU.
-Terywj
Again though, a set of Calm Mind / Aura Sphere / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt would beat that set, as a +1 Sphere/Bolt/Beam beats a +0 Blast/Blizzard/Thunder, while raising your SpD in the process (also you can still run Thunder since you can generally rely on Kyogre to set up your rain).
Yeah but you're still better off with Calm Mind, as a +1 Aura Sphere will do more than Focus Blast. Also, you gain special defense with Calm Mind and can try for multiple boosts depending on what you are up against. Finally, Aura Sphere/Ice Beam will allow you to do some revenge killing, while Focus Blast and Blizzard are too inaccurate to use reliably without a turn of setup for Gravity.
The only way I see that set working is on a Gravity team, but even then you're probably better off letting something else set up Gravity and then running:
Calm Mind
Focus Blast
Blizzard
Thunder/Taunt
With Gravity supplied by something else, you'd only need one turn of setup and thus would have a clear advantage over a set using more accurate attacks. If you really need Mewtwo to set up Gravity, try something like this:
Gravity
Recover/Attack
Attack
Self Destruct/Attack
Basically this could work two ways:
first, run Gravity, two attacks and Self Destruct with an offensive EV spread. Gravity + Self Destruct is a good way to get a Gravity sweeper in for free, while the two attacks will let you just attack with decent coverage in a pinch. I recommend Hasty for this.
Second, you could run Gravity and Recover with any mix of the other options. This time you will want a defensive spread, though the nature becomes troublesome if you opt for Self Destruct, as you won't really want to lower any stat. This will allow you to try and keep Mewtwo around to set up Gravity multiple times. Using two attacks can let you try to tank a little bit, while one attack and Self Destruct will let you go out with a boom if you think it's the last time Mewtwo needs to set up Gravity. You may still want to go Hasty, and focus on Special Defense. Also you could neglect Special Attacks altogether and try setting up a screen, Will-o-Wisp, or Taunt.
Instead of protect on the torment Gyarados, Bounce could be an interesting alternative.
I've got a set for Zapdos that I think could work.
@Life Orb
Naughty / Lonely; 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Roost
HP Grass
Drill Peck
Thunderbolt
This set focuses on taking out two of Zapdos' biggest counters, namely Swampert and Blissey. Thunderbolt is a staple on any Zapdos set, allowing it to hit relatively hard with STAB Thunderbolt boosted by a Life Orb. Hidden Power Grass allows Zapdos to remove any and all Swampert that attempt to wall the set, as well as providing general coverage on other ground types. Drill Peck, however, forms the crux of the set. With it, Zapdos is able to 2HKO Calm 0 / 252 Blissey with it 100% of the time with Stealth Rock, and 70.94% of the time factoring in Leftovers, something that none of the other Zapdos sets can accomplish. While the set doesn't hit as hard as MS Zapdos or the LO + 3 Attacks set, it removes Blissey and allows Zapdos to proceed to fire powerful Thunderbolts at will. Roost adds longevity to the set, healing off LO damage incurred.
The EVs serve a specific purpose. Naughty nature is recommended over Lonely to allow Zapdos to retain the physical bulk granted by its typing and to better resist priority attacks, and along with maximum EV investment in attack it is able to 2HKO Blissey with stealth rock, as well as 252 / 220 Bold Celebi without it. 176 speed EVs allow Zapdos to outpace all neutral speed base 90s, such as Lucario. The rest of the EVs are placed into SpA to allow Zapdos to hit as hard as possible with Thunderbolt, and it allows HP Grass to OHKO Swampert 87.18% of the time with Stealth Rock. If more speed is desired, a simple 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP spread could be used, although Swampert is now OHKOd only 53.85% of the time after Stealth Rock.
The set is not without its flaws, however, as several pokemon can interfere with Zapdos' success. Tyranitar, Snorlax, Jolteon, Flygon, Gliscor, and Latias all cause the set problems. A Swampert of your own is well-equipped to deal with Tyranitar, Flygon, Gliscor, and those Jolteon that don't carry HP Grass. Scizor is also a good teammate to pair with Zapdos, resisting Ice attacks aimed at it, taking neutral damage from Rock, and having a powerful CB U-Turn or Bullet Punch to deal with the aforementioned threats. As an added bonus, it can trap and kill Latias with Pursuit. Yet another option is Metagross - its defensive synergy with Zapdos allows it to easily switch into stone edges or Ice Beams, using the appropriate attack to deal with the aforementioned pokemon. Offensively speaking, Zapdos is best paired with pokemon that will appreciate having Swampert and Blissey out of the way. A plethora of special attackers fall under this category, since Blissey is often the opponents only answer to special offense. Agility SubPetaya Empoleon is such an example, as well as Celebi, Heatran, or Starmie. Special mention goes to Jolteon, as the removal of Swampert allows it to run HP Ice alongside Thunderbolt with little worry, espcially when backed by a Life Orb or Choice Specs.
Naughty / Lonely; 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Roost
HP Grass
Drill Peck
Thunderbolt
This set focuses on taking out two of Zapdos' biggest counters, namely Swampert and Blissey. Thunderbolt is a staple on any Zapdos set, allowing it to hit relatively hard with STAB Thunderbolt boosted by a Life Orb. Hidden Power Grass allows Zapdos to remove any and all Swampert that attempt to wall the set, as well as providing general coverage on other ground types. Drill Peck, however, forms the crux of the set. With it, Zapdos is able to 2HKO Calm 0 / 252 Blissey with it 100% of the time with Stealth Rock, and 70.94% of the time factoring in Leftovers, something that none of the other Zapdos sets can accomplish. While the set doesn't hit as hard as MS Zapdos or the LO + 3 Attacks set, it removes Blissey and allows Zapdos to proceed to fire powerful Thunderbolts at will. Roost adds longevity to the set, healing off LO damage incurred.
The EVs serve a specific purpose. Naughty nature is recommended over Lonely to allow Zapdos to retain the physical bulk granted by its typing and to better resist priority attacks, and along with maximum EV investment in attack it is able to 2HKO Blissey with stealth rock, as well as 252 / 220 Bold Celebi without it. 176 speed EVs allow Zapdos to outpace all neutral speed base 90s, such as Lucario. The rest of the EVs are placed into SpA to allow Zapdos to hit as hard as possible with Thunderbolt, and it allows HP Grass to OHKO Swampert 87.18% of the time with Stealth Rock. If more speed is desired, a simple 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP spread could be used, although Swampert is now OHKOd only 53.85% of the time after Stealth Rock.
The set is not without its flaws, however, as several pokemon can interfere with Zapdos' success. Tyranitar, Snorlax, Jolteon, Flygon, Gliscor, and Latias all cause the set problems. A Swampert of your own is well-equipped to deal with Tyranitar, Flygon, Gliscor, and those Jolteon that don't carry HP Grass. Scizor is also a good teammate to pair with Zapdos, resisting Ice attacks aimed at it, taking neutral damage from Rock, and having a powerful CB U-Turn or Bullet Punch to deal with the aforementioned threats. As an added bonus, it can trap and kill Latias with Pursuit. Yet another option is Metagross - its defensive synergy with Zapdos allows it to easily switch into stone edges or Ice Beams, using the appropriate attack to deal with the aforementioned pokemon. Offensively speaking, Zapdos is best paired with pokemon that will appreciate having Swampert and Blissey out of the way. A plethora of special attackers fall under this category, since Blissey is often the opponents only answer to special offense. Agility SubPetaya Empoleon is such an example, as well as Celebi, Heatran, or Starmie. Special mention goes to Jolteon, as the removal of Swampert allows it to run HP Ice alongside Thunderbolt with little worry, espcially when backed by a Life Orb or Choice Specs.
Here's a set I've been using to some success recently for aggron. Its effectiveness is best used when there are no entry hazards (and sandstorm is of course useful to an extent).
Aggron @ Focus Sash
Rock Head
8 HP / 252 ATK / 248 SPE
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
-Rock Polish
-Head Smash
-Earthquake
-Endeavor/Aqua Tail/Brick Break
I run this set with endeavor in the final slot and boy, has it done a world of good. Get this guy in on something locked into a useless move against Aggron (CBtar into pursuit comes to mind, along with scarfgar on shadow ball, etc), or get it in with a free switch off of a death. Next step is rock polishing, with the EVs getting the speed stat to 396, enough to outspeed pokemon as fast as max speed aerodactyl and jolteon.
Rock polish is an obvious choice here, as it is the crux of the set, giving Aggron the speed advantage over almost all non-scarfed pokemon in OU (dammit, Ninjask).
Head smash is another very obvious move to this set, giving a recoil-less 150 BP STAB move to the already hefty 350 attack stat. Head smash is perfect for taking down opposing Salamence, Gyarados, Zapdos and other flyers, among not-as-common Ice types.
Earthquake is also a great move. Although lacking STAB, earthquake hits many threats in OU for supereffective damage. Aggron outspeeds Modest scarf variants of Heatran and always 1HKOs. Earthquake also easily kills Magnezone that are silly enough to try and trap him.
Lastly, Endeavor is a good option to sort of..."go out with a bang", just to a lesser degree. Knocking anything under 396 speed and lacking priority down to 1 HP as a dying wish is really great, giving a free trap kill for priority, as long as stealth rock is up. Aqua tail and brick break can also be used in this spot, for a way to hit ground types harder, and although Rock/Ground hit everything Fighting does, brick break can be used for breaking screens.
Aggron usually nets at least 1 kill, pulling his weight already. However, more often than not, Aggron will take down 2 or sometimes even 3 (consider 99% damage).
Overall, a very useful set that I think has quite a bit of surprise factor for anyone who doesn't know how to handle it.
Aggron @ Focus Sash
Rock Head
8 HP / 252 ATK / 248 SPE
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
-Rock Polish
-Head Smash
-Earthquake
-Endeavor/Aqua Tail/Brick Break
I run this set with endeavor in the final slot and boy, has it done a world of good. Get this guy in on something locked into a useless move against Aggron (CBtar into pursuit comes to mind, along with scarfgar on shadow ball, etc), or get it in with a free switch off of a death. Next step is rock polishing, with the EVs getting the speed stat to 396, enough to outspeed pokemon as fast as max speed aerodactyl and jolteon.
Rock polish is an obvious choice here, as it is the crux of the set, giving Aggron the speed advantage over almost all non-scarfed pokemon in OU (dammit, Ninjask).
Head smash is another very obvious move to this set, giving a recoil-less 150 BP STAB move to the already hefty 350 attack stat. Head smash is perfect for taking down opposing Salamence, Gyarados, Zapdos and other flyers, among not-as-common Ice types.
Earthquake is also a great move. Although lacking STAB, earthquake hits many threats in OU for supereffective damage. Aggron outspeeds Modest scarf variants of Heatran and always 1HKOs. Earthquake also easily kills Magnezone that are silly enough to try and trap him.
Lastly, Endeavor is a good option to sort of..."go out with a bang", just to a lesser degree. Knocking anything under 396 speed and lacking priority down to 1 HP as a dying wish is really great, giving a free trap kill for priority, as long as stealth rock is up. Aqua tail and brick break can also be used in this spot, for a way to hit ground types harder, and although Rock/Ground hit everything Fighting does, brick break can be used for breaking screens.
Aggron usually nets at least 1 kill, pulling his weight already. However, more often than not, Aggron will take down 2 or sometimes even 3 (consider 99% damage).
Overall, a very useful set that I think has quite a bit of surprise factor for anyone who doesn't know how to handle it.
@Leftovers
EVs: 252 Att / 252 Spd / 4 Def (looking for a new spread..)
Nature: Jolly
~Torment
~Protect
~Waterfall
~Dragon Dance
My problem with this set is that too many Pokemon have two ways in which they can deal with Gyarados. Rotom, as you mentioned, can use Will-o-Wisp or Thunderbolt. Celebi can use Grass Knot or Thunder Wave. Gyarados hasn't really got the raw bulk to pull off a set like this, imo. Even just hitting it with Ice Beam from a Starmie is going to do some damage.
On top of that, you risk being out-predicted. So Zapdos switches in on a Torment and you Protect on a Thunderbolt. You Dragon Dance on a weak Hidden Power. You protect again, only for it to use Roost, and suddenly you're vulnerable to a Thunderbolt next turn.
I was talking about bulk, so I think you should use a bulkier EV spread. As the set seems to depend on getting multiple Dragon Dances, I don't believe that much speed is necessary. I would use Adamant with 252 Attack, 248 HP and 8 Speed. After a Dragon Dance, you'll outrun neutral base 100s. You probably don't need all that much Attack, either, so you can move some to Defense if you'd like.
I definitely agree that you should try Bounce.
Wow. I came to this thread to present my torment gyrados and it seems its been done already. However, mines a little different and probably works a little better.
Gyrados @ Wacan Berry
EVS: 252 HP/108 ATK/150 SPD
Intimidate
Adamant
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Return
-Torment
The plan is simple, come in on one of the many things gyrados forces out, and dd on the switch. Say latias or starmie comes in. Dragon dance again as they break the wacan berry with thunderbolt. Torment as they thunderbolt again, making them do nothing for a turn. Then dragon dance again as they do minimal damage to gyrados' bulk. OHKO with +3 return and you have a beast that resists and ohkos scizor and pretty much kills anything. I've tested this set a lot and it works really well with good support. It also looks much better than the previous model as it actually has great coverage and sweeps the majority of ou in one hit.
Gyrados @ Wacan Berry
EVS: 252 HP/108 ATK/150 SPD
Intimidate
Adamant
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Return
-Torment
The plan is simple, come in on one of the many things gyrados forces out, and dd on the switch. Say latias or starmie comes in. Dragon dance again as they break the wacan berry with thunderbolt. Torment as they thunderbolt again, making them do nothing for a turn. Then dragon dance again as they do minimal damage to gyrados' bulk. OHKO with +3 return and you have a beast that resists and ohkos scizor and pretty much kills anything. I've tested this set a lot and it works really well with good support. It also looks much better than the previous model as it actually has great coverage and sweeps the majority of ou in one hit.
I've been testing a lead Feraligatr: Feraligatr @ Muscle Band/Life Orb/Leftovers Adamant, 252 Atk, 168 Spe, 88 HP -Waterfall -Earthquake/Return -Aqua Jet -Swords Dance This Feraligatr is geared towards use in OU. I've been using it as a lead so far. The EVs are geared towards outrunning common bulky leads, such as Metagross, Heatran, Swampert, and bulky low speed versions of Jirachi while still being able to take a hit and do lots of damage. Azelf: Waterfall, Aqua Jet. It gets to set up rocks and that's it. You might even get away with just being taunted. Aerodactyl: Same as azelf. Heatran: Swords Dance, Earthquake ohkos through Shuca. Metagross: Swords Dance, Earthquake ohkos (assuming you're using at least a Muscle Band, leftovers has a chance of not koing) Swampert: Easily 2hko'd by +2 Waterfall while earthquake does very little back Jirachi: Earthquake does massive damage. Gatr doesn't mind being tricked a band. Gatr also doesn't mind a scarf, as the speed EVs make it faster than +speed 110s with a scarf, so it can revenge kill things like Gengar and DDtar easily. Infernape: Only versions with grass knot pose a danger, and if they don't carry Vwave, you win anyway. Gyrados walls this set pretty hard, so make sure you have a good counter for it waiting in the wings. Besides that though, not a lot is capable of beating it, as scarfed electrical attacks from Latias or Starmie aren't enough to kill and in fact will just piss it off (bringing it into Torrent range).
I've recently fallen in love with the Sub-Charge Rotom-A set. However, I find that I'm often wishing that it was a little faster. I realised that this set could be used by Zapdos to great efficiency. Zapdos has higher HP, SpA and Speed, similar resistances, but it's the stat boosts that help here, since it's an offensive set. Here it is:
Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
Evs: 60 HP, 196 SpA, 252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
-Substitute/Roost
-Charge Beam
-Heat Wave
-HP Ice
Here it is. Unlike Rotom-A, Zapdos has access to instant recovery, which gives him an option to use instead of Substitute. Sub is generally the prefered choice though, since it allows you to avoid status. Charge Beam is obvious, allowing Zapdos to boost his SpA to very high levels. The other 2 attacks provide some excellent coverage. HP Ice is superior to HP Grass in this case, since you would otherwise be walled by Dragons, who are extremely common in OU. Grass will deal with Swampert, and while rare, Lanturn, who would otherwise wall you completely. This is best paired up with something that can reliably deal with both BLissey and Swampert, who really give this set problems. MixApe springs to mind.
Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
Evs: 60 HP, 196 SpA, 252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
-Substitute/Roost
-Charge Beam
-Heat Wave
-HP Ice
Here it is. Unlike Rotom-A, Zapdos has access to instant recovery, which gives him an option to use instead of Substitute. Sub is generally the prefered choice though, since it allows you to avoid status. Charge Beam is obvious, allowing Zapdos to boost his SpA to very high levels. The other 2 attacks provide some excellent coverage. HP Ice is superior to HP Grass in this case, since you would otherwise be walled by Dragons, who are extremely common in OU. Grass will deal with Swampert, and while rare, Lanturn, who would otherwise wall you completely. This is best paired up with something that can reliably deal with both BLissey and Swampert, who really give this set problems. MixApe springs to mind.
Except Zapdos is weak to Ice Beam, and isn't immune to Seismic Toss, meaning you still lose to (goes to shoddy battle server statistics thread) 52%(Seismic Toss) of Blisseys, unless people run only Ice Beam, which is ~32% of Blisseys(that atleast have Ice Beam).
Rotom-A still does the job better IMO, turning Blissey into set up fodder, and Rotom-A gets superior coverage with his other two moves(Shadow Ball + HP Fighting). Even if you don't face a Blissey, Rotom-A has the advantage of not being walled by either Flygon/Gliscor or Swampert, pending on Hidden Power, and Latias. Oh yeah, then there is the fact that you are weak to ice(Swampert) and stealth rock.
@ Ubers are awesome: How does Rotom-A not set up on Scizor? Last time I checked, Scizor either used Bullet Punch or U-turn on CB sets, while SD sets don't have anything that hurts Rotom-A severely.
Rotom-A still does the job better IMO, turning Blissey into set up fodder, and Rotom-A gets superior coverage with his other two moves(Shadow Ball + HP Fighting). Even if you don't face a Blissey, Rotom-A has the advantage of not being walled by either Flygon/Gliscor or Swampert, pending on Hidden Power, and Latias. Oh yeah, then there is the fact that you are weak to ice(Swampert) and stealth rock.
@ Ubers are awesome: How does Rotom-A not set up on Scizor? Last time I checked, Scizor either used Bullet Punch or U-turn on CB sets, while SD sets don't have anything that hurts Rotom-A severely.
I've got a set for Zapdos that I think could work.
@Life Orb
Naughty / Lonely; 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Roost
HP Grass
Drill Peck
Thunderbolt
This set focuses on taking out two of Zapdos' biggest counters, namely Swampert and Blissey. Thunderbolt is a staple on any Zapdos set, allowing it to hit relatively hard with STAB Thunderbolt boosted by a Life Orb. Hidden Power Grass allows Zapdos to remove any and all Swampert that attempt to wall the set, as well as providing general coverage on other ground types. Drill Peck, however, forms the crux of the set. With it, Zapdos is able to 2HKO Calm 0 / 252 Blissey with it 100% of the time with Stealth Rock, and 70.94% of the time factoring in Leftovers, something that none of the other Zapdos sets can accomplish. While the set doesn't hit as hard as MS Zapdos or the LO + 3 Attacks set, it removes Blissey and allows Zapdos to proceed to fire powerful Thunderbolts at will. Roost adds longevity to the set, healing off LO damage incurred.
The EVs serve a specific purpose. Naughty nature is recommended over Lonely to allow Zapdos to retain the physical bulk granted by its typing and to better resist priority attacks, and along with maximum EV investment in attack it is able to 2HKO Blissey with stealth rock, as well as 252 / 220 Bold Celebi without it. 176 speed EVs allow Zapdos to outpace all neutral speed base 90s, such as Lucario. The rest of the EVs are placed into SpA to allow Zapdos to hit as hard as possible with Thunderbolt, and it allows HP Grass to OHKO Swampert 87.18% of the time with Stealth Rock. If more speed is desired, a simple 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP spread could be used, although Swampert is now OHKOd only 53.85% of the time after Stealth Rock.
The set is not without its flaws, however, as several pokemon can interfere with Zapdos' success. Tyranitar, Snorlax, Jolteon, Flygon, Gliscor, and Latias all cause the set problems. A Swampert of your own is well-equipped to deal with Tyranitar, Flygon, Gliscor, and those Jolteon that don't carry HP Grass. Scizor is also a good teammate to pair with Zapdos, resisting Ice attacks aimed at it, taking neutral damage from Rock, and having a powerful CB U-Turn or Bullet Punch to deal with the aforementioned threats. As an added bonus, it can trap and kill Latias with Pursuit. Yet another option is Metagross - its defensive synergy with Zapdos allows it to easily switch into stone edges or Ice Beams, using the appropriate attack to deal with the aforementioned pokemon. Offensively speaking, Zapdos is best paired with pokemon that will appreciate having Swampert and Blissey out of the way. A plethora of special attackers fall under this category, since Blissey is often the opponents only answer to special offense. Agility SubPetaya Empoleon is such an example, as well as Celebi, Heatran, or Starmie. Special mention goes to Jolteon, as the removal of Swampert allows it to run HP Ice alongside Thunderbolt with little worry, espcially when backed by a Life Orb or Choice Specs.
Anyone?
You probaly did not need to basically copy-paste that whole post when it is toward the bottom of the last page.
Anyways, Sub Toxic Zapdos is better.
HP Grass to take out Swampert is what most players are wary about already.
Zapdos doesn't pose as much of a threat to other things anymore. Drill Peck hits pretty much nothing else harder, as even grass types just take more from normal Zapdos's heatwave. Also, Bliss with Protect basiclly has a 90% shot to survive and heal itself, putting Zapdos's efforts to waste.
Not to mention the amount of prediction it takes to use Drill Peck. If you haven't seen Bliss yet you arne't even sure your opponent will have one. Hitting Bliss on the switch-in will be VERY difficult.
Even if you get lucky and Blissey is about to KOed by Drill Peck, your opponent can simply switch out, and Blissey can come in later with about 35% hp left and heal then.
On a side-note, many Bliss still run Bold, so yeah, Zapdos has no chance at all against Bold Bliss.
Anyways, Sub Toxic Zapdos is better.
HP Grass to take out Swampert is what most players are wary about already.
Zapdos doesn't pose as much of a threat to other things anymore. Drill Peck hits pretty much nothing else harder, as even grass types just take more from normal Zapdos's heatwave. Also, Bliss with Protect basiclly has a 90% shot to survive and heal itself, putting Zapdos's efforts to waste.
Not to mention the amount of prediction it takes to use Drill Peck. If you haven't seen Bliss yet you arne't even sure your opponent will have one. Hitting Bliss on the switch-in will be VERY difficult.
Even if you get lucky and Blissey is about to KOed by Drill Peck, your opponent can simply switch out, and Blissey can come in later with about 35% hp left and heal then.
On a side-note, many Bliss still run Bold, so yeah, Zapdos has no chance at all against Bold Bliss.
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