Team "Iconic is Best"

[Enygma]

Did you hear the word?
The word about the bird!

Iconic is Best!

INTRODUCTION

I named this team Iconic Is Best instead of Team Juggernaut V.2 simply because I wanted to use that kick-ass banner, courtesy of KiwiDean.
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This was an older team that I decided to revamp to enter in on the Smogon Tour as well as the Official Marriland Tourney. I needed to update the team to the current metagame trend.

Now that my running in both tours has ended, I decided to post my supposedly "retired" team.... And if I get good rates again like the previous version, I might reuse or revamp it again in the future. Haha.

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A CLOSER LOOK

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Swampert@ Leftovers

• Torrent
• 252 HP | 4 Atk | 252 Def
  
• Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
• Moveset:
  • Stealth Rock - Stealth Rock allows me to hurt Gyara and Mence while they switch in, allowing my team members to KO them.
  • Earthquake - Earthquake is for obvious STAB.
  • Ice Beam - Ice Beam keeps Salamence at bay, and does passable damage to Latias and Celebi.
  • Roar - Roar allows me to phaze things, mainly CroCune.
  .....
  
  • Why this Pokemon?:
    Swampert and Latias go well hand-in-hand. I needed something that can set up SR as well as deal with Lucario most of the time.
  .....
  
  • EVs & Nature:
    • The EVs maximize Swampert’s defensive potential. With the given spread, a positive nature +1 Salamence will never OHKO Swampert with a Life Orb Outrage while Ice Beam will always OHKO Salamence after Stealth Rock. Swampert can also take on Choice Band Tyranitar with ease, as even Choice Band Crunch will fail to 2HKO.
    .....
  • Considered Changes
    • I am testing Protect over Roar, but I like having a way to call away CroCune.
    .....
  • Lead Comparison
    • 
      Metagross: Set up SR as they do the same. EQ is generally a 3HKO, so I will do it to weaken them.
    • 
      Azelf: I will just go ahead and Ice Beam it as they Taunt.
    • 
      Jirachi: EQ if I feel they will Trick me a damn Scarf. SR sometimes if I feel ballsy.
    • 
      Swampert: SR as they SR. Then I get the fuck out to Celebi.
    • 
      Aerodactyl: Ice Beam is a 2HKO with a Sash.
    • 
      Infernape: I lose to him, so I generally switch out to Latias.
    • 
      Hippowdon: Set up Rocks as they swap, play according to the swap.
    • 
      Bronzong: Set up SR as they do the same. I don't really know what else to do.
    • 
      Ninjask: Set up Rocks as they Protect, then Ice Beam to hurt the switch-in or as it SD's.
    • 
      Tyranitar: Set up Rocks, then EQ.
    
    

I am excite!"

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Latias @ Expert Belt

• Levitate
• 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
  
• Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
• Moveset:
  • Draco Meteor - Draco is for hard STAB, dealing damage even to those that resist it.
  • Surf - Surf gives great coverage along with Meteor. It also keeps Ape in check from sweeping my team.
  • Thunderbolt - Thunderbolt is a check against Gyarados that runs through this team.
  • Hidden Power [Fire] - HP Fire ensures that I KO Scizor.
  .....
  • Why this Pokemon?:
    Vaporeon used to be on this team, and her role was to put Ape in check as well as dent Gyara. This BaitLatias can do just that. The only downside is that I lose Wish support.
  .....
• EVs & Nature:
  • The EV's allow me to hit hard and fast. Pretty standard, really.
  .....
• Considered Changes
  • I have been considering a Support Latias over this set to help spread paralysis.

o yes the bird named pidgeotto told me im best !!!!

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf

• Sand Stream
• 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
  
• Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
• Moveset:
  • Stone Edge- Stone Edge is for obvious STAB as well as giving me a chance to KO Mence and Gyara.
  • Superpower - I needed something that could get rid of Blissey before she spreads her status on me.
  • Crunch - Crunch is also for STAB.
  • Pursuit - Pursuit enables me to trap things that Scizor hates, mainly Rotom-h.
  .....
• Why this Pokemon?:
  I needed something that can trap Rotom-h as well as something that can outspeed Mence and Gyara without a DD. Tyranitar is also helpful in checking Lucario.
  .....
• EVs & Nature:
  • Standard EV's are standard.
  .....
• Considered Changes
  • I am considering BaitTar so I can make Latias a Support variant.
  
  

Silly Iconic. The bird is clearly a Delibird.

Celebi @ Leftovers

• Natural Cure
• 252 HP | 220 Def | 36 Spe
• Bold (+Def, -Atk)
• Moveset:
  • Recover - This is what keeps Celebi alive and well, which lightens up Vaporeon's burden.
  • Hidden Power [Fire] - This is my answer to pesky steels that switch into Celebi thinking that I will use Leaf Storm, Grass Knot, etc.
  • Grass Knot -Grass Knot deals a lot of damage to most of the threats in OU.
  • Thunder Wave - Paralysis support is helpful on this team to help my secondary sweeper.
  .....
• Why this Pokemon?:
  I needed something that had great synergy with Heatran as well as the other mates on my team. Celebi was needed so that I could have paralysis support for my secondary sweeper, LO Tran. I also needed something that can safely counter Tyranitar and Gyarados if my other answers to them fail. Celebi also helps me keep Lucario in check, since she can survive a Jolly Lucario's Crunch (which almost none carry), and she can outspeed Adamant Lucario to pull a Thunder Wave so Heatran can effectively take him out.
  .....
• EVs & Nature:
  • The EVs give Celebi the best overall physical defenses while still outrunning Jolly Tyranitar.
  .....
• Considered Changes
  • None at the moment.

marry me Iconic. You are best

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Heatran @ Life Orb

• Flash Fire
• 4 HP | 252 SpAtk | 252 Spe
• Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
• Moveset:
  • Substitute - Substitute eases prediction for me as I send in Heatran on something that will switch out.
  • Fire Blast - Fire Blast is obvious STAB for dealing with steels that threaten my team.
  • Earth Power - Earth Power allows me to KO opposing Heatran that switch in.
  • Hidden Power [Ice] - HP Ice allows me to revenge Mence, Latias, and other Dragons that are not holding a Scarf themselves.
  .....
• Why this Pokemon?:
  I needed something that could help Scizor sweep. SubLOTran was successful during my tests, since it worked well in conjunction with paralysis support from Celebi.
  .....
• EVs & Nature:
  • The EV's maximize Heatran's hitting power as well as his speed without a Scarf.
  .....
• Considered Changes
  • None at the moment.

hi weere ogonna kill u all

Scizor @ Leftovers

• Technician
• 220 HP | 232 Atk | 56 Spe
• Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
• Moveset:
  • Roost - Roost allows SD Scizor to have more survivablity, and with a lot of bulk, it become tough to handle.
  • Swords Dance - SD Scizor without SD. It's unheard of. 'Nuff said.
  • Bullet Punch - Bullet Punch is omnipresent on Scizor, noawadays. And I'll be damned if I'm not a conformist.
  • Brick Break - Brick Break coupled with Bullet Punch allows me to hit everything in the game for neutral or SE damage, barring Gyarados and Shedinja, but fuck them.
  .....
• Why this Pokemon?:
  Scizor is the main sweeper of the team. The other members are fitted on the team to support this fellow, and to help clear a path for him to sweep.
  .....
• EVs & Nature:
  • 220 HP takes Scizor to its highest Leftovers point.
  • 56 Spe EVs allows him to comfortably outrun the likes of Skarmory and Metagross.
  • The rest of the EVs are dumped into his Atk to maximise his offensive power.
  .....
• Considered Changes
  • None at the moment.

Iconic is best!"

I want to thank all of you for reading my epic RMT. And for those of you Marrilanders, I know you're gonna LOL. But lastly, I would like to thank CAL-Ciaran for his crazy RMT format. I loved it so much, so I hope you don't mind if I steal it. CAL and DD are boss. Iconic is best. Nuff said.
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[Enygma]

MOST THREATENING

RED means if not dealt with properly it could sweep or wall my entire team.
ORANGE means it may require a sacrifice to deal with, but not generally.

Porygon-Z: ScarfTar can work it.

Suicune: The bane of this team's existance, mainly CroCune, however I can hope to phaze it away with Swampert.

​

 

[jc104]

Hello.

First of all, what's with Gliscor's EVs? For a start, you put 88 in special attack by mistake. Secondly, you want to max your hp. Gliscor has pretty mediocre base hp and he needs it to take hits. I would suggest 252hp 4 def 252 speed, to at least guarantee a tie with other Gliscor (tbh, i don't think there are many between around 220-224 and max speed.)

Vaporeon already has enough base HP. I would suggest you use the highest lefties number (244) available, or the standard 188. Then, if not interested in Speed, out the remaining evs into Special Attack or Special Defence. (in response to below: no, he definitely wants a bold nature)

Finally, how do you deal with DDmence? At the moment, Vaporeon, Gliscor, Tyranitar and Celebi are OHKOd by +1 Outrage after SR. Scizor takes about 70%, and its bullet punch does roughly 40% max. Heatran takes roughly 70% max from Outrage as well. This basically means that if Heatran is weakened slightly, you will not even be able to take out a DDmence with one sacrifice.

One way to remedy this would be to give your Scizor max Attack. This would increase Bullet Punch's damage to 60% max - a reliable kill after SR, Sandstorm and 1 round of LO damage. Obviously if you used CB scizor, this would be even more reliable. Another option is to run more defence and thunder wave on Celebi, or simply to use a reliable scarfer such as Latias.

Hope I helped. Good luck.

(btw can I have a cookie - according to smogon the standard Tinkerbell has 4 fewer hp EVs. Also, may I ask why the small change?)

 

[L33t 1337]

Just something quick to add on to jcs rate. I think you should be running Calm nature on Vaporeon. Even though you want maximized bulk on physical side, this can be good as you add on 10% meaning it will add on alot more on SpDf than on Def.

 

[Enygma]

First of all, what's with Gliscor's EVs? For a start, you put 88 in special attack by mistake.

Finally, how do you deal with DDmence? At the moment, Vaporeon, Gliscor, Tyranitar and Celebi are OHKOd by +1 Outrage after SR. Scizor takes about 70%, and its bullet punch does roughly 40% max. Heatran takes roughly 70% max from Outrage as well. This basically means that if Heatran is weakened slightly, you will not even be able to take out a DDmence with one sacrifice.

Thanks for the rate. I will test the max hp for now, but i see what you are poiting out.

And for DDmence, hes not much of threat, since i almost always get SR up, bringing mence down to 75% health. And usually, my opponent will see ttar before he ever sees scizor, meaning that SS will be in effect, allowing scizor to KO mence. On top of that, ttar is mence bait, put on this team to deal with DDmence, notably BulkyMence that Scizor hates.

DDMence doesnt have much chance to set up 1 DD except on Vaporeon. But i tested the scenario against myself on Shoddy, and 1 DD outspeeds ScarfTran, which means that only Scizor has a chance against him. What I did was i sacked what was in, to bring in Ttar, lure the EQ, switched to Scizor to barely survive the EQ, and BP him. The SS should finish him off.

But i havent had a ddmence sweep me in all my months of play, simply because I'm boss 8)

The reason i did not max his attack was to give him some bulk to take more of Latias' surf, which has proven to be helpful. I also didnt like LO simply because I would rather give Scizor survivablity over power.

I also took off 4 HP ev's from celebi because the standard did NOT give you an OLRP number, because they expect that you would use LO.

L33t 1337: how would calm help me? What can a 10% boost om the SpD side help me? I dont take much damage from Grass Knot anyways. And Vaporeons job is to take damage aimed at TTar, Gliscor, and Celebi, and those attacks barely do much anyways regardless of any SpD investment. If you have calcs, it might persuade me.

 

[jc104]

DDMence doesnt have much chance to set up 1 DD except on Vaporeon

I think that there are ample opportunities to set up a DD. Gliscor, provided he doesn't get hit by taunt on the switch, Vaporeon, Celebi if they work out the set and scarftran locked into Earth Power all provide an opportunity. See what you mean about Ttar being bait- this should rarely kill Mence, but will make it switch back out, which is half the job done.

What I meant about Heatran was forcing Mence to KO with Outrage, then revenging with Heatran while surviving the following outrage. I suppose you may not have to make multiple sacrifices if you predict well, but I would suggest that you bait Salamence into Outrage, not EQ, because it cannot switch out (which it may do, particularly if the opponent has a rapid spinner.) It will also do marginally less to Scizor.

What does OLRP stand for?

Edit: on your threatlist, you should add Ttar as an azelf counter

 

[yond]

lolololololololololol.

Now onto my rate. I like where things are going, but they are a few switches i encourage.

First off i suggest you switch sets for heatran and tyranitar.

On heatran i suggest an original set by philip7086

Jason (Heatran) (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 36 HP/220 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Magma Storm
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Dragon Pulse
- Explosion
---

General: Heatran is usually the first Pokemon I go to once I get screens up. This beastly set usually manages to take out at least two Pokemon before going down. It is designed to trap its counters with Magma Storm, and proceed to KO them before they can take Heatran out. The extra 6.25% per turn that Magma Storm does is actually very significant in many situations. It allows Heatran to kill 4HP Latias with Dragon Pulse after SR. It allows Swampert users to not scout for HP Grass anymore by switching out. It allows you to Explode on Blissey without worrying about a switch to a Ghost. The best bonus of Magma Storm, is knowing that your opponent cannot pull a double-switch on you, so you can bring in a guaranteed counter if Heatran must switch out. The EVs are designed to allow Heatran to outspeed everything aiming at beating Jolly Tyranitar. Max special attack with Modest is required to net certain kills. You might be thinking, why not Naughty over Modest, since I'm running Explosion? Well, Explosion is pretty much only used for Blissey, who dies after Magma Storm even with a -attack nature. Because you want this Heatran to take hits and then hit back harder, you really do not want to lose out on your defensive capabilities. Shuca and screens also allows Heatran to weather any attacks and blast everything back, including things like EQs from Mix Mence.
Synergies: The biggest selling point for using this Heatran, is it draws out and kills/weakens otherwise problematic Pokemon to other members on the this team. This beast baits and kills the likes of Swampert and Scarf Latias, who both check Salamence, Blissey, who walls Latias and Suicune, and Salamence, who can be a general pain to any team. Heatran also does a great job at drawing Pokemon out who allow me to set other members up, such as Gyarados, who is just bait for Suicune to come in and set up.
---
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Seeing as heatran is a special attacker its going to be obvious that hes exploding when you switch him into blissey. This set above is the perfect way to deal with that. He also contributes in other ways with elements of surprise, etc.

TO make up for that i suggest using Scarf Tyranitar. Tyraniboah is really an unreliable poke especially with all the scizors running around.

Choice Scarf Jolly
~ Stone Edge
~ Crunch
~ Pursuit
~ Earthquake / Superpower
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
While most players expect Tyranitar to be slow and hard hitting, this set gives it a much needed boost in Speed at the cost of some of its attacking power. With a Choice Scarf attached, Tyranitar edges out many dangerous Overused threats such as Starmie, Azelf, Infernape, Gengar, Salamence, and Lucario, and scores an OHKO on all of them.

The main reason to give Tyranitar a Choice Scarf however, is to absorb Trick. The majority of Pokemon who use Trick are Psychic- and Ghost-types weak to Pursuit. This means Tyranitar can switch in on a Trick no problem, and then Pursuit the helpless Pokemon as they flee. With the sandstorm Special Defense boost, Tyranitar can counter Latias, Azelf, and Choice Scarf Rotom-A with no problem at all. Tyrantar's convenient Speed allows it to out-pace even Azelf and Starmie not wielding a Choice Scarf themselves. The last slot boils down to preference. While Earthquake is a more consistent attack, Superpower does more immediate damage to Blissey and enemy Tyranitar. Rock Slide is also a viable option over Stone Edge for the better accuracy and possible flinch rate, which Tyranitar can abuse with its high Speed.

This Tyranitar works very well on a stall team which requires a Trick absorber. Trick is one of few moves that plagues stall teams, often permanently crippling walls and limiting their ability to counter Pokemon. Tyranitar puts a stop to that. Forretress has a much easier time setting up and removing entry hazards when Rotom-A is gone, due to it blocking Rapid Spin and burning Forretress. Scizor and bulky Ground- as well as Water-types easily counter this Tyranitar since it lacks the boost provided by a Choice Band. Celebi is a great counter to Water-types and Ground-types alike, as they share a weakness to Celebi's STAB. Celebi can also use Hidden Power Fire to defeat an incoming Scizor. Celebi can also use Heal Bell to cure Tyranitar of any status; a burn from Rotom-A in particular. Rotom-A is a wonderful direct counter to Scizor. It also defeats most Gyarados, OHKOing with Thunderbolt.

With a certain pesky Ghost- or Psychic-type Pokemon out of the way, you can open up opportunities for another Pokemon to sweep. Gyarados despises Choice Scarf Rotom-A, as well as Latias packing Thunderbolt. If Tyranitar manages to trap them, then Gyarados may very well sweep the enemy team. Lucario is another example of this, dreading a possible Choice Scarf Rotom-H or Gengar coming in after it sets up. As long as you avoid switching in on a Focus Blast, Tyranitar can dispatch of Gengar as well. Agility Metagross also has a much easier time with Rotom-A gone especially.

Probably the best latias and rotom counter in the game, this guy will be a great addition to your team. Try it out and see if you like it.

Lastly i suggest switch scizor for a more devastating sweeper. Namely, Salamence.

Dragon Dance
Life Orb Naive / Naughty
Moveset EVs
~ Dragon Dance
~ Outrage
~ Earthquake
~ Fire Blast / Roost
232 Atk / 24 SpA / 252 Spe

In my opinion, salamence is the most lethal pokemon in todays metagame. He provides your team with an easier way to set up and sweep compared to swords dance scizor. Hes more unpreditable and has far less counters compared to scizor. Plus with his perfect type coverage and enormous offensive stats he becomes a power enemy for all teams after one dragon dance.

thanks.

 

[Enygma]

On heatran i suggest an original set by philip7086


Seeing as heatran is a special attacker its going to be obvious that hes exploding when you switch him into blissey. This set above is the perfect way to deal with that. He also contributes in other ways with elements of surprise, etc.

TO make up for that i suggest using Scarf Tyranitar. Tyraniboah is really an unreliable poke especially with all the scizors running around.



Probably the best latias and rotom counter in the game, this guy will be a great addition to your team. Try it out and see if you like it.

Lastly i suggest switch scizor for a more devastating sweeper. Namely, Salamence.



In my opinion, salamence is the most lethal pokemon in todays metagame. He provides your team with an easier way to set up and sweep compared to swords dance scizor. Hes more unpreditable and has far less counters compared to scizor. Plus with his perfect type coverage and enormous offensive stats he becomes a power enemy for all teams after one dragon dance.

thanks.

Hey Yonderz, thanks for the rate. I will test out that heatran and see if i like it, and since i lose my revenger with that change, i might as well test out scarftar with it.

TBH, I don't see how the Magma Storm Tran is better.... But if Philip says so, I'll be damned if I'm not a conformist.

And about that Mence suggestion. I am a very firm believer that Mence and TTar should never be on the same team. NEVER. EVER. Unless you are running HO, then it's viable. But any team other than HO that carries Mence AND TTar is ridiculous. It would be like putting Shedinja and Obamasnow together. It's plain dumb, IMO.

You could always opt for Toxic on Gliscor over U-turn to allow you to nearly single handedly handle stall. With the advent of Scarfers on Stall Teams, Tyraniboah can't take stall as well as it used to. Toxic will let Gliscor outstall nearly everything on a Stall Team, as well as dealing with things like Zapdos and Bulky Gyarados (in conjunction with Taunt), which seem to give your team a bit of trouble. Seeing as you're apparently aiming for a Scizor sweep- correct me if I'm wrong- I think somewhere or somehow Tyranitar should be packing Pursuit. Boah is fun, but just not what it used to be. However, eliminating threats like Rotom-H will make it far easier for Scizor to sweep. You can also pick off the likes of Latias and sweeper Azelf, who, since you don't have Pursuit on Scizor, can come in and out during the course of the game with near impunity and potentially cause some harm.

I don't really know what to think of this RMT to be honest. I'm pretty confused as to why it revolves around my inherent, yet clearly fabricated, stupidity, but hey I'll take it. Nice team and good luck with it.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Marriland brings out the stupidity in us. xD

And you don't know me, since your in Big Guns and i'm in the suoer boss DD, but maybe you heard of me....

I have tried Toxic once before, back when stall didn't carry much Scarfers (May IIRC?), and I didn't like it. Since i just came out of retirement again, I may have lost touch with the meta.... I will test it out again.

And for the TTar Pusuit issue: I did have Pursuit on this him back when he was a CB variant. I found that I hardky ever used it. With Boah, I found myself LOLing behind a Sub as I raped Mence (who is a threat to this team).... And Boah can handle stall, I guess... But since you mentioned Rotom-H and Latias being an issue (and seeing that this team hasn't been a Wifi-only team for the longest time) I will test it out with Yonders' ScarfTar suggestion.

FYI, I did this RMT mainly for LOL's.... I was gonna incorporate a LOL team with Punksparce, but seeing that I got bored of LC and wanted to go back to standard, I figured that I might as well make a satire-like RMT, because honestly YOU'RE MY IDOL


P.S.
Iconic is best.

 

[reyscarface]

My suggestion is you check out all the rates in this thread, which is also yours, hope I helped!
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59313

 

[Enygma]

My suggestion is you check out all the rates in this thread, which is also yours, hope I helped!
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59313

sorry. no you didnt. the last time i bumped it, a mod deleted my post and unbumoed it after it came back alive from the grave once it was a month dead. so no. no. nice try though. but i posted this again so that the mods wont have any reason to unbump it. and that last RMT had no good rates. all the narbs were suggesting crappy stuff without explaining to me why.

again. no. just no.

 

[Bogmire]

I suggest moving Tyranitar's 52 attack EVs into special attack. you're using dark pulse>crunch so there's not really any reason for them.

 

[mite b cool]

42% - 49.6% 52EV attack Focus Punch vs 248 HP Scizor
40.2% - 47.8% 0EV attack Focus Punch vs 248 HP Scizor

so not much of a difference really, scizor is going to u turn out and avoid focus punch anyway.....

 

[Towelie]

I know you think Vappy is a solid Infernape counter, but, an Infernape set with:

Infernape@Life Orb
Timid 252 SpA/252 Spd/4 Hp
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Focus Blast
-Vacuum Wave


Literally ohko's your whole team after on Nasty plot. I know the set's uncommon, but I've used it, DarkArtisan, and Stathakis use it. I don't wanna mess up the nice synergy on your team, but i thought you should be aware of it.

To help out with your CroCune problem, maybe Roar > Hp Electric on Vappy? I know it won't do shit if it's their last poke, but thats really all I can think of. It still helps you take on +1 Gyara because you wont be KO'd by any attacks.

Idc if you don't use the idea, just a quick suggestion ;D

Gl with your team though.

 

[Enygma]

I know you think Vappy is a solid Infernape counter, but, an Infernape set with:

Infernape@Life Orb
Timid 252 SpA/252 Spd/4 Hp
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Focus Blast
-Vacuum Wave


Literally ohko's your whole team after on Nasty plot. I know the set's uncommon, but I've used it, DarkArtisan, and Stathakis use it. I don't wanna mess up the nice synergy on your team, but i thought you should be aware of it.

To help out with your CroCune problem, maybe Roar > Hp Electric on Vappy? I know it won't do shit if it's their last poke, but thats really all I can think of. It still helps you take on +1 Gyara because you wont be KO'd by any attacks.

Idc if you don't use the idea, just a quick suggestion ;D

Gl with your team though.

hiya. thanks for the rate.

for the ape problem, i still think vaporeon is a solid counter, but yea. my whole team dies to him, situationally. but vaporeon is boss 8)

and for the Roar idea, it might help, but i want gyara out of my life, hence the reason for hp electric. but i will consider it.

Thanks.

 

[Towelie]

Well I just had another idea for your very bad CroCune weak problem.
Run Perish Song > U Turn on Celebi. If it's their last poke and you cant do shit to it, laugh at them with Perish Song :P

You could try a bulkier Celebi spread, but the Tinkerbell one with Perish Song works fine as well.

 

[Shadowhunt]

Very nice team. It's pretty similar to mind, in fact.XD This, of course, can only mean that this team is superb.

I don't have much time on my hands, so I'll just make a nitpick:

Honestly? I've found that instead of Roar, or the extremely predictable HP Electric on Vaporeon, Toxic helps keep the opponent on their toes by an unexpected and crippling poison. The team could use status, and this could help. Also, I don't see U-Turn doing much on Celebi, but that's just me. T-Wave screws over many of Celebis switch ins, allowing a cripping T-wave and a switch to an appropriate counter to the now crippled sweeper.

 

[Snorlaxe]

Hi there, I got your PM so here's my ratee :)

I like this team a lot, and it seems as though you've already gotten some good rates, but I feel like there are ways in which the team could be further improved. As I'm sure you are aware, your team is lacking a resistance to Rock-type moves. This means that it will have a pretty tough time switching in on Choice Band Tyranitar's STAB Stone Edge, as well as other Rock-type moves in general. I think that in order to fix this weakness, you should try a Swampert in Gliscor's position. Use this set:

Swampert @ Leftovers | Torrent
Relaxed | 252 HP | 252 Def | 4 SpA
Earthquake | Stealth Rock | Ice Beam | Roar

Ordinarily I would be against the removal of Gliscor as it is usually the only Pokemon stopping opposing Swords Dance Lucarios from tearing teams apart. Your team has Scarf Heatran to cover Luke, however, so Swampert becomes a great option over Gliscor. Swampert can phaze out dangerous threats, is a great counter to Tyranitar, and is also an effective user of Stealth Rock. The only problem with Swampert over Gliscor is that your team loses a Ground-type immunity, but a Rock-type resist is sorely needed on this team, so I think it is a worthwhile change. The most fantastic thing about Swampert on this team is that it can force out CroCune with Roar, a Pokemon that currently makes your team its bitch.

For minor changes, I would consider using Bug Bite on Scizor in place of Brick Break. Your TyraniBoah is currently taking out the steel-types left and right (or at least it should be), and as such I'm thinking that Brick Break is kinda redundant if Tyranitar does his job. Bug Bite is just for another source of STAB and overall more useful on Swords Dance Scizor. Speaking of Tyranitar, use 76 Speed EVs, as it allows Tyranitar to outspeed minimal investment base 65s such as Skarmory.

Yeah thats about it, as you've already gotten some pretty good rates from above posters (I strongly think you should test Swampy however). Hope I helped, and good luck IllMinded! ;)

 

[Solace]

Well, I personally think you team is water weak =O

To counter that weakness, I recommend running this set:

Roserade@ Choice Specs
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~Leaf Storm/Sleep Powder
~Sludge Bomb
~HP Ice
~Energy Ball

Energy Ball will KO Crocune after an entry hazard. Sleep Powder is useless for CroCune as it runs Sleep Talk anyway (so not much of a cripple there). I'm not sure who you're willing to replace, however I would recommend replacing Heatran. Roserade's HP Ice also revenge kills Latias and will KO Salamence. It should mainly serve as a Suicune counter however, as that is the "bane to your team's existance" as you put it.

Hope this helped a bit. I really think it will improve your team significantly.

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

I would seriously consider changing your Scizor moveset. If you're running the Swords Dance set, I would suggest removing your Scizor for a Swords Dance Lucario. Lucario does the sweeping job much more effectively than Scizor. Or, if you want to stick to Scizor, I would suggest the typical Choice Band Set. Also, I like your Celebi. It reminds me a lot of my own Celebi, the Perish Songer. Other than that, good luck in the future.

 

[Enygma]

Thanks guys for the rates.

@ Snorlaxe Thanks for the suggestion. Swampert will be retested. The reason I dropped Swampert a long time ago was because of the fact that Swampert lost to more leads than Gliscor did, according to the Marriland Best Lead Contest.
As for Bug Bite, I have considered it. But I like the ability to break random Zong screens, and I also have a means to break apart HO teams in the beginning. Thanks for the suggestions though.

@ Naruto O______o
The last time I checked, Vaporeon and Celebi can take water attacks like a boss. Either you're playing a 5th gen game or having too much weed.
Whatever it is, I want some of what you're having 8)

@ lucas69xx sigh.... This team is centered around SD Scizor. CB Scizor is only efficient at revenging and scouting early to midgame. It sucks as a finishing sweeper.
And Lucario sucks, having slightly less base attack than Scizor. And scizor has technician, which is boss.

 

[mite b cool]

great team. I can see you are reluctant to let it go since you have posted before, i'm sure it works for you.

The Infernape set that Towlie posted can screw you over, however rare it is, but I think a SD set consisting of Mach Punch/ Close Combat/ Fire Punch and SD is more common (I see Justinawe use it and i try it out myself every once and a while) and can hurt you just as badly. For that reason i recommend roost over Uturn so you can better handle assaults from Metagross, CB Tar etc and keep it tip top shape if you need an emergencey counter to Lucario or SD Ape. Just so you know, +2 Ape does 61.3% - 72.3% to your Gliscor, and you say that Metagross leaves you at about 50 percent, so yea. If ape runs Flare Blitz you are even worse off. mach punch is going for 86.1% - 102.2% to your heatran which is close to a OKHO with SR and a bit of damage. 95.3% - 112.5% to vappy with CC. uturn really only helps you vs Aerodactyal who you can beat fairly easily with Vappy as you dont want to reveal your Scizor too early.

Thats really all i see, great team, good luck with it in the future

 

[yond]

explain to me how tyranitar and salamence on the same team is counter productive o_O. Perhaps then i could help you understand why that makes abosultely no sense.
Other than ss damage bothering mence i can't see how it is.

 

[Setsuna]

Responding to your visitor message, I think this team has already received good suggestions, so my work here will be simple just adding what I think should be added.

Analyzing the team, I find DD Taunt Gyarados kind of dangerous to the team as the current Celebi's set isn't precisely effective as a counter against it. Taunt Gyarados usually carries Bounce, which means that after a boost it'll OHKO that Celebi with it 79% of the time, and if we consider SR that turns out to be a 100%. Gyarados sets up on Heatran, Tyranitar, Scizor, and Gliscor (if you decide to change out instead of Taunt it). Finally, Taunt will prevent Vaporeon for using Roar and your only chance will be to explode with Heatran, that in fact is the only able to take out opposing SD Scizor and that would be a gap in the defenses.
I don't wanna be skeptical about this, just to point you out that Gyarados can harm your team considerably if it manages to launch a Dragon Dance ;)
So in order to solve this problem without changing the Celebi's moveset that you seem to like so much, consider HP Electric over Roar on Vaporeon.

Oh and by the way, try Snorlaxe's lead suggestion out, it could be of help.

Good luck.

 

[Enygma]

explain to me how tyranitar and salamence on the same team is counter productive o_O. Perhaps then i could help you understand why that makes abosultely no sense.
Other than ss damage bothering mence i can't see how it is.

This team is centered around setting up for an SD Scizor sweep. Mence's counters are somewhat different than Scizor. The only other viable sweeper that can replace Scizor is Lucario. But lets be honest, Lucario is slightly weaker than Scizor, and lacks Technician.

And the only team thats viable for Mence and TTar to be allowed on the same team would be Hyper Offense. Mence is scared of SR, SS, and its own LO. So upon entry, Mence would be taking 25% of damage, then 6% from SS, then 10% from LO. Thats a whopping of 41% of HP down already, not even counting the opponent's move, which would usually be an attack as you switch out from your current Pokemon into a Mence. And both Mence and TTar have the same counter: Scizor, the most used Pokemon in the OU game. Scizor can OHKO TTar, and take down a Mence that has only 59% HP left.

Hence TTar and Mence are only viable on HO teams, simply because HO teams usually carry a fast taunter/screener as a lead to stop the foe from setting up SR, thus allowing Mence to NOT lose 25% HP.

The Infernape set that Towlie posted can screw you over, however rare it is, but I think a SD set consisting of Mach Punch/ Close Combat/ Fire Punch and SD is more common (I see Justinawe use it and i try it out myself every once and a while) and can hurt you just as badly. For that reason i recommend roost over Uturn so you can better handle assaults from Metagross, CB Tar etc and keep it tip top shape if you need an emergencey counter to Lucario or SD Ape. Just so you know, +2 Ape does 61.3% - 72.3% to your Gliscor, and you say that Metagross leaves you at about 50 percent, so yea. If ape runs Flare Blitz you are even worse off. mach punch is going for 86.1% - 102.2% to your heatran which is close to a OKHO with SR and a bit of damage. 95.3% - 112.5% to vappy with CC. uturn really only helps you vs Aerodactyal who you can beat fairly easily with Vappy as you dont want to reveal your Scizor too early.

Thanks for the rate. Luckily I already changed it back to Roost before reading you rate. I had tested U-Turn. U-Turn looked good on paper, but it absolutely sucked. I lost the ability to heal freely without Roost, and almost always depended on Vaporeon. With the huge increase of dependance in Vappy, I found that its death rate almost doubled. So I just turned back towards Roost.

But if someone suggested Roost, then that means my discoveries with the field tests are accurate. Thanks.

Analyzing the team, I find DD Taunt Gyarados kind of dangerous to the team as the current Celebi's set isn't precisely effective as a counter against it. Taunt Gyarados usually carries Bounce, which means that after a boost it'll OHKO that Celebi with it 79% of the time, and if we consider SR that turns out to be a 100%. Gyarados sets up on Heatran, Tyranitar, Scizor, and Gliscor (if you decide to change out instead of Taunt it). Finally, Taunt will prevent Vaporeon for using Roar and your only chance will be to explode with Heatran, that in fact is the only able to take out opposing SD Scizor and that would be a gap in the defenses.
I don't wanna be skeptical about this, just to point you out that Gyarados can harm your team considerably if it manages to launch a Dragon Dance ;)
So in order to solve this problem without changing the Celebi's moveset that you seem to like so much, consider HP Electric over Roar on Vaporeon.

Oh and by the way, try Snorlaxe's lead suggestion out, it could be of help.

Hiya Setsuna. You never cease to impress me.

I haven't test Snorlaxe's suggestion, which was Swampert, yet. But I HAVE tested out Roar, and it absolutely sucked. After a couple of battles, I found that Roar was too situational, and rarely ever used it. Then I tested HP Rock, and didn't like that I lose the OHKO on Gyara after SR.

So I went back to HP Electric, luckily it was before reading this rate; which means that my field test discoveries are on par again.

I will definitely begin testing Swampert out, now that I have finished testing all the other suggestions.

Thanks again guys.

 

[Stathakis]

sorry. no you didnt. the last time i bumped it, a mod deleted my post and unbumoed it after it came back alive from the grave once it was a month dead. so no. no. nice try though. but i posted this again so that the mods wont have any reason to unbump it. and that last RMT had no good rates. all the narbs were suggesting crappy stuff without explaining to me why.

again. no. just no.

I didn't realize that phillip7086, cmurph, and ikitsune (among others who probably rated even earlier versions of this team) were all narbs. you're much better than them, marriland wifi champion!

also, maybe you should talk to a mod about bumping your team, and get the o.k. from them to make a new one, or to bump your old one, or to otherwise seek advice. I know from personal experience that they're not evil dictators, and they're certainly not stupid. so hop off.



anways, enough criticism of your attitude, let's look at the team. I'm not really sure how this team is supposed to work, because offense will easily outpace most of the team, and probably overpower it too, considering your strongest defensive pokemon is gliscor, who really can't do anything back to anyone, and vaporeon, who can really only wish to heal up your team, half of which has recovery anyways but is still too weak to take many hits. stall will have its way too, because pretty much everyone is spikes weak and you're not dealing near enough damage to stop them from getting down. bulky offense, in the meantime, will likely have some wallbreakers, who also happen to outpace most of your team, so the hits that break walls will break your mons that much more. you can't really seem to switch into.... anything. tinkerbell celebi and no leftovers tyranitar don't exactly last very long, nor does any of the rest of your team really.

additionally, I don't see how you're supposed to help scizor sweep, as things like lotran, or worse, sub toxic tran can come in all day, as can other bulky steels and even waters as long as they avoid celebi. unless your method of removing them is by predicting the switch and exploding with heatran. if that works reliably for you, then you can probably win with any team. so, with all of these u-turns and no recovery tyranitars and scarfed mons, it looks like you're trying to gravitate to the offensive side, not the defensive side. I suggest that what you do if that is your intention, is add some speed. I also suggest that you at least make an attempt at offensive synergy, as scizor will really appreciate it if his counters are actually dead by the time it's his turn to come out. what these changes entail is, of course, replacing pokemon. while your dudes are defensive enough, they really just can't do shit back for the most part.

your threat list is also hilarious, by the way.

so here's what I'd do. the first thing is chuck vaporeon. when this many guys have recovery, that's not the issue. the issue is not being able to switch in and do the recovering, and once you're in, not knowing what to do because you lack the power to do anything. vaporeon is part of that problem. if you really want to check infernape that badly, and you really want wish support that badly, roost wish latias (or even salamence!) would probably do you a better job, while at the same time being able to actually hit shit with decent power/coverage. something more practical, though, would be like a counterstar starmie or even just lo recover starmie, as it actually can damage things, beat the stuff you want vaporeon can beat, outspeed some stuff, and even do some decent damage with hydro pump! additionally, waters and even some extra bulky steels like to switch into starmie, as do rotoms, which allows you to scout for scizor's counters. at that point, I'd change celebi back into regular old thunderwave celebi, because let's face it, grass/fire coverage is a thing of the past. nowadays there are too many salamences and heatrans and other fun guys who either just don't take damage from hp fire, which is a weak attack, especially if they just switched into a leaf storm, or just resist your attacks completely. thunder wave, on the other hand, really just neuters whatever comes in, with the exception of stuff that is already slow or already statused (but you don't have any other status on your team so tough chances). But with the slow, bulky things, you can't really do much to them with celebi anyways that you couldn't already do with grass knot/leech seed, so what is there to lose! the even bigger deal, though, is that defensive celebi can actually switch into shit, namely waters, though extra defense is always appreciated! at this point, I would also change tyranitar's set to either a bait tar, which is superpower pursuit crunch(or stone edge) flamethrower, who plays pretty similarly to what you already have, or a cbtar. the reason being that these variants hit much harder, and therefore take much more advantage of the paralysis that you may be spreading. additionally, cbtar fucks stall harder than you may think, as hippowdon isn't even seen anymore (and if it is, you've got plenty of good switches into it), swampert (what people use over hippowdon, mainly because it can hit shit) doesn't have recovery, and and pretty much nothing else on stall likes to take cbtar hits. in the meantime, tyraniboah gets walled HARD by skarmory and forretress (though forry's lack of recovery means you may be able to wear him down with focus punches, giving him enough time to set up everything he wants and even spin). with paralysis flying around, I really don't see a reason not to use cbtar, who can actually pursuit shit like rotom that you hate, and also take good advantage of paralysis. the final change I would, at the very least, test, is lotran or spectran over scarftran. both of these guys fuck waters much more effectively than scarftran, and they also like the paralysis that celebi spreads around. hell, while I'm typing this, I figure you can also throw thunderwave on starmie and really have a fun time.

just some preliminary thoughts, as this team is kind of hard to change well without a huge change in direction, as it's kind of in a weird spot right now. test em!

and be nicer to the users around you, please.