Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

[zarator]

Guys, please, stop whining about Dragon being overpowered, because in the eyes of Nintendo it isnt and it will never be. Maybe you have not got it yet, but Nintendo's recognized competitive formats are only 2: single 3v3 and doubles 4v4. The single 6v6 we play here in Smogon is completely irrelevant to them. And when you realize that in doubles 4v4 (the most important format since it is what VGC is based upon iirc) Ghost is better than Dragon and Smeargle is better than Latios, you will start to realize that Dragon-type is perfectly balanced for Nintendo.

@Chou: In-game Dragons are very balanced. Outrage can't be obtained during the playthrough, and the more powerful Dragons are found later in the game and require high experience to level up (and so are underleveled compared to other mons). As you can see, the in-game, 6v6 system is balanced too. You can call Nintendo stupid for not supporting competitive 6v6, but it is their choice, not mine. As it stands, as long as their only recognized formats are single 6v6 (in-game playthrough), single 3v3 (Battle Tower/Frontier) and doubles 4v4 (VGC), Dragons are completely balanced for the game, and they have no reason to change the current state of things. It is not stupid, it is common sense.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^That's stupid. The whole adventure system is based on the 6 v 6 system, including the goal of becoming a "pokemon master," seeing as guess what-- every league, elite four and champions have be singles battlers.

If anything, Nintendo's the stupid ones for not supporting the format competitively. Even from a business stance, their current stance is far from the best possible.

 

[speedwobbles225]

It would be sick if you could choose which sprite you wanted to display, like the options for all pokes from past gen's

 

[BlueCookies]

^That's stupid. The whole adventure system is based on the 6 v 6 system, including the goal of becoming a "pokemon master," seeing as guess what-- every league, elite four and champions have be singles battlers.

If anything, Nintendo's the stupid ones for not supporting the format competitively. Even from a business stance, their current stance is far from the best possible.

sounds more like an "in your opinion" they're the stupid ones. And from a business stance, 6v6 smogon rules are not feasable since battles can take so damn long. This would make the tournament take multiple days, possibly requiring people to stay in a hotel overnight. I know the parents of the juniors won't be happy with having to pay for hotel stay just so their kids can play in a tournament with "far superior rules and a much more strategical metagame"

 

[drcossack]

^That's stupid. The whole adventure system is based on the 6 v 6 system, including the goal of becoming a "pokemon master," seeing as guess what-- every league, elite four and champions have be singles battlers.

If anything, Nintendo's the stupid ones for not supporting the format competitively. Even from a business stance, their current stance is far from the best possible.

Doubles, in the anime at least, have been around from the second episode. Team Rocket ring a bell?

Also - http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Double_battles#In_the_anime

The games too have included double battles. Minor trainers in RSEFrLg & DPP force it, as does Flint and Volkner in Platinum (to access the Frontier.)

sounds more like an "in your opinion" they're the stupid ones. And from a business stance, 6v6 smogon rules are not feasable since battles can take so damn long. This would make the tournament take multiple days, possibly requiring people to stay in a hotel overnight. I know the parents of the juniors won't be happy with having to pay for hotel stay just so their kids can play in a tournament with "far superior rules and a much more strategical metagame"

Right. 4v4 doubles are a much more dynamic metagame then 6v6 singles (since full stall is virtually impossible in 4v4.) Even 3v3 battles (which were the focus of Nintendo events during RBY) involve more strategy than the Smogon metagame.

The shortness of doubles make a tournament like the VGC much more feasible. Would you rather a battle end in 10 turns or less, or would you rather a 2 hour long 6v6 match between two stall teams? Multiply both by a 128 person tournament field.

 

[lati0s]

Even 3v3 battles (which were the focus of Nintendo events during RBY) involve more strategy than the Smogon metagame.

That is a subjective and unverifiable opinion.

Gen 5 speculation
It is very unlikely that gamefreak will change the type chart or the 6 pokemon 4 moves format. the possible mechanics changes that I believe are reasonable are multiple abilities or multiple items per pokemon, though even multiple items seems a bit iffy.

Things I would like to see
-better physical fire, ice, electric and ghost moves
-special dragon dance
-stronger priority, sucker punch is situational, extremespeed has poor distibution and typing and 40 base without technician is fairly weak, maybe a couple of types with 60-70 base power prioirties, also more special priority would be nice
-special fighting pokemon, only fighting types with decent special attaqcks now are blaziken infernape and lucario, and none of them are commonly used a special sweepers
-better distribution of bulk up, bulk up is potentially as good or better (due to the physically based metagame) than calm mind but rarely sees play due to poor distribution

 

[MrIndigo]

That is, I think, the crux of the VGC metagame decision-making. Doubles games are over much faster, so they're more suitable for a VGC event because you can knock the tournament over in one day.

Now, that said, I think they should probably copy DCI/Wizards of the Coast's tournament system, which would allow for 6v6 single on a Swiss ladder system (their current system appears to be single-elimination for three rounds, then we pick the finalists at random from the undefeated, which is just crap, really), but it means the tournaments would take three or four days, and given the VGCs are populated by younger audiences generally, that's a bit more unfeasible than it is for MtG, where the vast majority of players are adults.

EDIT: Interestingly, regardless of the new pokemon created, if there are no new moves or hold-items, the GTS could work identically; old games wouldn't be able to trade new pokemon because they'd never be able to select them from the "Want/Looking For" menu.

EDIT 2: I'm interested to see how long Game Freak can continue not giving player access to Flare Blitz on Flareon or Entei, when they are happy to give it to an in-game NPC (Flint).

 

[Deucalion2]

More priority would reduce the game to a stupid tit for tat exchange. It'd be horrible.

 

[MrIndigo]

More priority would reduce the game to a stupid tit for tat exchange. It'd be horrible.

Not necessarily; if most things have priority, it means that the things they're trying to 'tit' will have priority too, which means anything that has high speed becomes even more valuable since it out-priorities revenge killers.

 

[drcossack]

That is a subjective and unverifiable opinion.

Nope, it really isn't. In RBY, when Stadium mode was the focus, ok, yeah, there's not as much skill (since Mewtwo/Mew was allowed then.) Take the legendaries like them out of the picture, and yes, there is more skill.

In 3v3, the Pokemon you pick are as paramount to your success as they are in the VGC. A mistake in team building or prediction in 3v3 will cost you the match. You can make multiple mistakes in 6v6 and still win.

 

[FlareBlitz]

These are my predictions/speculations. Obviously, there's not a lot of basis for them right now, but they're all based on trends or things that could logically happen.

-No major change in game mechanics, except for the possible addition of Shadow as an official type (but nerfed or with poor distribution...I hope)

-Fire/Ground starter. Water/Flying starter. Grass/Fighting starter. Would be interesting, since all three have quad weaknesses, and are recombinations of other starter typing in the past.

-Ghost Eevee evolution, Fighting Eevee evolution. They tend to come in pairs, and the pairs tend to be opposing types. It could also feasibly be Steel and Fighting.

- Useful starting area Pokemon, in terms of ability, typing or movepool. Gamefreak has shown willingness to do this with (arguably) progressively better normal birds and rodents. Even if their base stats are around the same, they have better movepool, ability, stat distribution, etc.

-Overheat clones for Water, Electric, and possibly Ghost.

-Leaf Blade clones for Fire and Water, possibly others. Maybe Power Whip/Megahorn clones as well.

-More Giga Drain/Drain Punch clones.

-More priority moves (expecting Fire and Grass, possibly Psychic as well). Hopefully some more specially-based priority moves.

-Aura Sphere tutor (more wishful thinking here), Volt Tackle tutor, Earth Power tutor

-Dark/Psychic pixie. Ghost-oriented legendary trio, based around "ancestral" themes.

 

[cantab]

The Eeveelution may be more likely to be Dragon. All previous eeveelutions have been historically special types, and Dragon is the only historically special type to not yet have had one.

Maybe the Shadow type could be implemented as a totally neutral type. With Shadow Pokemon only learning Shadow moves, if those moves are sufficiently weak it probably wouldn't be broken (provided there's no Shadow Rest+Talk+Boost for Crocune-like sets with the unresisted single attack).

Oh, and something that would be very unlikely, but very cool - Missingno. as an official, intentionally included, Pokemon.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

That is a subjective and unverifiable opinion.

Gen 5 speculation
It is very unlikely that gamefreak will change the type chart or the 6 pokemon 4 moves format. the possible mechanics changes that I believe are reasonable are multiple abilities or multiple items per pokemon, though even multiple items seems a bit iffy.

Maybe not multiple items for everyone, but maybe an ability that allows for two different items at once? Called 'Storage' or something, which could be a second ability for Pelipper and Cradily. Though I'd personally hope for a bulky Qwilfish evo for the ubiquitous Leftovers + Black Sludge combo.

Anyway, I'm only going to contribute to this thread with one more piece of speculation for the time being. One that has been mentioned before and has generated great controversy, and I am sure will continue to do so now.

Here it goes: dual-type moves.

 

[GOTO2435]

Well to sum up a few posts:
don´t think there will be type charts changes since nintendos VGC metagame is not broken and yadda yadda yadda (even if they wdid add a type shadow doesn´t seem likely i mean it sucks as an idea)
dual abilities nono as it has already been pointed out, its broken
same for dual items
same for 5 moves on each poke (or more)
8 or 7 pokes on each team is the most likely (though it is not probable at all) of all the things we´ve mentioned for mechanics changes since the president of pokemon announced himself that they discussed adding more team slots once but they decided against it, so they might consider it again, plus it wouldn´t break a specificall pokemon, make no diference on VGC (since you lose when 4 of your pokes die and some people don´t even occupie their 4th slot) and it will be useful in-game. It wouldn´t break our metagame either since it would allow stall to counter everyting with the additions of new threats though we run the rist of another stall filled metagame (GSC). Still 8 or 7 team slots is a long shot from happening.

 

[Chinese Dood]

I'm not amazing at programming, but the amount of work involved in having to program such a storage ability to allow for only a very small number of pokemon to be able to hold two items is probably too much to be worth the time (and of course there's the brokeness aspect in gameplay).

I wouldn't even call these speculations, but here's what I'm hoping:
- Reduce Stealth Rock damage (I see this as quite possible, as moves' base powers / accuracy / etc. have changed in the past)
- Triple/Quadruple/etc. Battles as opposed to just Double Battles? (Not too likely, but it's a way to totally make battling a lot more complicated ... maybe too complicated)
- More Double-specific moves and/or abilities (rather likely, since Doubles seems to be a favorable direction to be heading)

I'm one of those people that don't think there will be crazily drastic changes.

 

[cantab]

To hold two items, all you need to do is change the Pokemon data structure to have a second held item space, and then make the interface support it (and they'll be rewriting the interface anyway).

However, I don't think they're going to change the Pokemon data structure, because that would probably break trade compatibility.

 

[jumpluff]

Doubles is the official VGC format, so, yes, I expect Game Freak will continue to develop aspects of the doubles meta :)

 

[SgtWoodsy]

Doubles is the official VGC format, so, yes, I expect Game Freak will continue to develop aspects of the doubles meta :)

I have no issue with this whatsoever.

I also seriously doubt that we'll see multiple items/Abilities.

However, I COULD see interchangable mini-Abilities (we'll call them "Augmentations") as a new battling mechanic (for example, one Augmentation allows certain Ground-type moves to hit Flying/Levitating Pokémon).

 

[ck49]

Letting a pokemon hold two items would be broken. scarf+band boosted *insert pokemon with ability here* would over power everything.

 

[jumpluff]

You can't make that assumption so easily, without testing it anyway.. given that everything else would be holding two items too.

 

[cantab]

Scarf+Specs/Band and Orb+Specs/Band would also be broken, as would double of any item unless that was specifically blocked.

How about linking moves like in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon? There would have to be a penalty for doing so (perhaps a speed drop, or linked moves have reduced priority, or maybe a severe PP hit), and/or restrictions on combinations, but it might just work.

 

[Quaily]

Letting a pokemon hold two items would be broken. Specs+band boosted *insert pokemon with ability here* would over power everything.

that doesn't make sense since you can only pick a physical or special move and you get locked into it. band+life orb? maybe.

 

[Scepticallistic]

Scarf+Specs/Band and Orb+Specs/Band would also be broken, as would double of any item unless that was specifically blocked.

How about linking moves like in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon? There would have to be a penalty for doing so (perhaps a speed drop, or linked moves have reduced priority, or maybe a severe PP hit), and/or restrictions on combinations, but it might just work.

While that's an amazing idea, I can just see things like Swords Dance + Agility + Baton Pass in one turn or something hilarious like that. How about 1 of each entry hazard in 1 turn? I admit that it's severe move slot syndrome, but suicide leads would be at an all-time high then.

Fun idea, though. :P

 

[froggy25]

I was thinking of "Ability TMs" which would let you learn an Ability of your Pokémon instead of the current one.
That would be cool with abilities like Battle Armor (minders / cursers would not be able to learn this of course... I hope lol), Normalize, Frisk...

Oh, and I guess this has already been said, but reduce the maximum damage from Stealth Rock to 25% would help Pokémon like Charizard, Articuno, Yanmega or Ho-Oh.

 

[Bozo]

they probably won't change these, but there are a few things i've always thought were a little strange:

1. in sun you cant get frozen. so why can you get burned in the rain?
2. fire type moves thaw out frozen pokemon, so water type moves should put out a burn.
3. if a flying type like ninjask uses dig, earthquake should hit it (it is no longer flying, right??)

by way of changing the type effectiveness chart, i've always thought that poison should be supereffective against both bug and fighting. also, water should maybe be SE against steel (rusts it), and possibly electric SE against steel (dont stick a fork in the powerpoint). there are probably others....

some things i dont think they should do:

multiple abilities? ludicolo with rain dish and swift swim was so cool in mystery dungeon, but yeah, a bit overpowered. technician+swarm scizor?? swift swim + sniper kingdra?

multiple moves? lead forretress - spikes + toxic spikes + stealth rock + explosion? although it would want to watch out for fake out + flamethrower + close combat + grass knot infernape. or spore + belly drum + ingrain + baton pass smeargle.

double items? apart from the obvious scarf+band/specs, things like sash+lum would make it too easy. still, you would have to deal with those kinds of things from your opponents. salac+liechi etc would be interesting.

shadow types? why exactly would that be necessary when there is dark and ghost?

what i'd most like to happen is some type-specific things. ive already mentioned water types not getting burned. but also some abilities i think should become features of the type. eg

1. all grass pokes getting some kind of boost in the sun (speed or hp regeneration).
2. all fire pokes have flame body ability (why are you more likely to get burned by hitting a magmortar than say flareon?) - same with electric+static.

ah, heaps to speculate about, but we should probably just wait and see what happens. i'm really looking forward to this new game :)

and someone mentioned getting a smogonite to work for gamefreak - my vote is for mingot!!