Well Arbok's poison-type. The type just isn't that good - in fact, I think it's a strong contender for worst type. If you look at the current poison-types in OU; Gengar's Ghost/Poison, and would arguably be better off pure Ghost. Roserade's OU due to its movepool, and most of that seems to come more from the grass side; again, I'm not sure the poison typing helps. So for Arbok and Weezing evos to get a decent presence in standard (even if not actually OU), I reckon they'll need either a good second type, a killer movepool, or absolutely excellent stats.
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Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.
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Well Arbok's poison-type. The type just isn't that good - in fact, I think it's a strong contender for worst type. If you look at the current poison-types in OU; Gengar's Ghost/Poison, and would arguably be better off pure Ghost. Roserade's OU due to its movepool, and most of that seems to come more from the grass side; again, I'm not sure the poison typing helps. So for Arbok and Weezing evos to get a decent presence in standard (even if not actually OU), I reckon they'll need either a good second type, a killer movepool, or absolutely excellent stats.
YES!
I want some fire-type priority!
I would also like to see some pokes who suck ass to get some evos that make them viable. We'll prob get more shitty Eevee evos though. D:
Arbok already has a pretty cool movepool, his main problem is his lackluster stats and that Poison is such a bad offensive type. If he had a second type, I'd lean Dark or Ground just for more offensive options.
I'll probably get laughed at for this, but I thought making Weezing a Steel/Poison evo would be sweet, if not OP due to all the resistances he'd get, and with Levitate he'd only be Fire weak. Not to mention I just think Poison/Steel would be a visually cool combo.
I'm just a sucker for the original 150, I grew up watching Arbok and Weezing on TV, they were some of my favorites.
Personally I hope they put all of the new Pokemon in the regional Pokedex (except maybe for the legendaries that you can't get until after the Elite Four anyway). IMO, only having 150 Pokemon in the regional Dex in DP and cramming it with 20+ Water-types was a terrible idea. The only Water-types they should have in 5th Gen's regional Dex are Magikarp, Gyarados, Goldeen, Seeking, Tentacool, Tentacruel (because they're the obligitory Fishing and Surfing Pokemon respectively), the starters and maybe 5-6 others.
That Weezing Evo could probably work as long as it has decent stats since it has the same weaknesses, resistances, and immunities as Bronzong besides Psychic and adds Dark and Ghost.
That Weezing Evo could probably work as long as it has decent stats since it has the same weaknesses, resistances, and immunities as Bronzong besides Psychic and adds Dark and Ghost.
I've been having awesome dreams about Gen 5 lately. There was that one about the Muk evo that was like Muk in armor, and last night I apparently encountered a secret 5th Gen Pokemon while playing Platinum. It had a cool name starting with an L that I've already forgotten. Its body to head forms and sizes (as if it were a ratio) were similar to Togetic, and it was colored like a Togekiss but with more pronounced and numorous spots. It was also sort of like a Zatu and gave off the appearance of being a sentry.
It was the first tri-type Pokemon, being Fire, Grass and Water. One of the type bars on its stat screen was crammed behind the other two in a triangle because there was only room for two. Throughout the dream all I could do was wonder how hackers hadn't found it yet. It had new moves that sounded like those new(ish) land cards in Magic that just search out other ones.
Also, Starly was part Fire.
It was the first tri-type Pokemon, being Fire, Grass and Water. One of the type bars on its stat screen was crammed behind the other two in a triangle because there was only room for two. Throughout the dream all I could do was wonder how hackers hadn't found it yet. It had new moves that sounded like those new(ish) land cards in Magic that just search out other ones.
Also, Starly was part Fire.
In one of my wackier moments I came up with the concept for a Fire/Water type based on the
hydrovolcanism phenomenon and even had names/sketches for the three stage line.
Fumarunt->Steen->Guysir
The ability, Boil, made them immune to water attacks and powered up their own water attacks if they were ever soaked (similar to Flash Fire).
LOL, but I won't turn this thread into CAP.
I do want GF to tackle some of the more unlikely type combos though.
How about a Special attacking Fire/Poison Pokemon based on the concept of atomic radiation?
hydrovolcanism phenomenon and even had names/sketches for the three stage line.
Fumarunt->Steen->Guysir
The ability, Boil, made them immune to water attacks and powered up their own water attacks if they were ever soaked (similar to Flash Fire).
LOL, but I won't turn this thread into CAP.
I do want GF to tackle some of the more unlikely type combos though.
How about a Special attacking Fire/Poison Pokemon based on the concept of atomic radiation?
I had a feeling I forgot one . . .
I don't see how it is unfair though. It's like two triangles in one, the original F/G/W and then one that works in reverse with P/D/F, so that whichever starter type is paired with Dark will be weak to the type that is paired with Psychic.
Water/Psychic >>> Fire/Dark
Fire/Psychic >>> Grass/Dark
Grass/Psychic >>> Water/Dark
I don't see how Dark being immune to Psychic makes a Fighting/Dark/Psychic cycle unfair. If you keep your starter in against your rivals starter, which most people don't, why wouldn't you use a non-STAB move that hits for neutral damage instead of your resisted STAB? The only thing that would make it unfair is for people who play set instead of shift, if the Dark starter learned Pursuit. This could be remedied by making Pursuit an egg move since it has little use outside of competitive play.
Little use? Try no use; in the Battle Tower I had my opponent locked into Thunder Wave against my Garchomp and they didn't switch out while I set up a substitute and three Swords Dances.
Oh dear lord, no, don't do that. Magcargo is about the 5th worst fully evolved pokemon (Behind... Unown in first, Ledian, Luvdisk, and Farfetch'd in some order, possibly.) for a REASON. It's typing is one of the WORST in the game.
Fire/Flying, Water/Rock (If only Corsola was better...), and Grass/Fighting. All types we've seen before, but at least none of them has a HUGE flaw (Well, SR weakness on Fire Flying, but I think they'll nerf it. Remember, they DO play singles, there is a reason Hypnosis was nerfed.[Bronzong and Gengar])
To be fair, it's not just the typing that completely screws Magcargo. In addition to horrible defensive typing, he has one of the lowest speeds possible, mediocre special defense, and low hp. His attack is as low as his hp, and his special attack as mediocre as his special defense. He has nothing going for him except above average defense. And his movepool, while not bad, isn't exactly impressive either.
We have enough Fire/Flying Pokemon already, including a Starter and two Legendaries. And for Water/Rock, we already have Omastar, Kabutops, and Relicanth, plus the aforementioned Corsola.
Warrior Prince, what do you mean they need to make them better? Togekiss, Magnezone, Dusknoir, Weavile, Electivire, Roserade, Tangrowth,Mamoswine, Gallade, Yanmega and Lickilicky are all either OU, were OU or are viable in OU. Off the top of my head the only two I don't think see much OU use are Magmortar and Probopass. GF did a damn good job at fixing up older pokemon. Unless you meant design-wise which I would still disagree with.
A good Fire/Rock would have to be Tyranitar levels of good.
Defensively, Tyranitar's typing is pretty bad as it only amplifies and combines all of the Rock and Dark weaknesses.
However, above average stats in everything but speed, an endless movepool and amazing ability adequately make up for any flaws.
A Fire/Rock with similar blessings (Levitate?) could work because Fire/Rock gets great offensive coverage.
I'm interested to see if they will change the mechanics of Stealth Rock or make putting it up less absolutely beneficial.
An example of the latter approach would be to make Rock types remove it on switching in while possibly granting an attack/speed boost.
A much weaker Stealth Rock will make Pokemon like Specs Yanmega an absolute terror though.
Defensively, Tyranitar's typing is pretty bad as it only amplifies and combines all of the Rock and Dark weaknesses.
However, above average stats in everything but speed, an endless movepool and amazing ability adequately make up for any flaws.
A Fire/Rock with similar blessings (Levitate?) could work because Fire/Rock gets great offensive coverage.
I'm interested to see if they will change the mechanics of Stealth Rock or make putting it up less absolutely beneficial.
An example of the latter approach would be to make Rock types remove it on switching in while possibly granting an attack/speed boost.
A much weaker Stealth Rock will make Pokemon like Specs Yanmega an absolute terror though.
They also seem to enjoy a lot of "let's give mediocre/crappy pokemon ridiculously good/over-powered moves!" as of late.
Head Smash Aggron
Recover Quagsire
X-Speed Dragonite
Bullet Punch Scizor lol
etc.
I've said it before, but still waiting on Drain Punch Hitmontop. Hell, even Force Palm would be fine. But seriously, Hitmontop is practically build for Drain Punch with low HP, great defensive stats (for draining) and Technician.
Also Brave Bird (or Head Smash) Aerodactyle. :P
Head Smash Aggron
Recover Quagsire
X-Speed Dragonite
Bullet Punch Scizor lol
etc.
I've said it before, but still waiting on Drain Punch Hitmontop. Hell, even Force Palm would be fine. But seriously, Hitmontop is practically build for Drain Punch with low HP, great defensive stats (for draining) and Technician.
Also Brave Bird (or Head Smash) Aerodactyle. :P
not a matter of big movepools, but moves that actually WORK WELL. :P
I could see a Fire/Rock getting a Water-negating ability called Steam or something. Think of those hot stones in bath houses. Could negate water damage or give a Special Attack boost or something like that.
I'm hoping for some consolidation of items, though this is more of an in-game thing. It seems weird for them to add all of these new evolutionary methods and evolutionary stones when they can just add new Pokemon that evolve via old methods. We haven't had a Pokemon evolve by Fire or Thunder stone since first gen.
Just a random thought, but why not give in-battle effects to previously unused items? I don't see the need for a Waterstone and a Damp Rock when they could just combine them and save room in the bag. Same with Heat Rock and Firestone. Maybe Thunderstone could grant a Lightningrod-type ability in battle. I don't know.
I've been hoping for something like variable evolution levels for awhile now. It seems strange to me that trainers will have Pokemon like a level 9 Pidgeotto or other under-leveled evolved Pokemon. I think it would be interesting if the Pokemon's evolution level were tied to its IVs. A Poke with lower IVs might evolve earlier than one with higher IVs with some sort of designated cap on them. That way if you've got something with 0/0/0/0/0/0 IVs, at least it's evolving early on to help you out in-game.
I am mostly hoping for more ways to buff older, forgotten Pokemon without giving so many new evolutions. New abilities and moves that give certain Pokemon new niches would be greatly appreciated. Obviously there are some Pokemon that simple moveset changes or abilities won't help, and they're the ones that deserve new evos.
I'm hoping for some consolidation of items, though this is more of an in-game thing. It seems weird for them to add all of these new evolutionary methods and evolutionary stones when they can just add new Pokemon that evolve via old methods. We haven't had a Pokemon evolve by Fire or Thunder stone since first gen.
Just a random thought, but why not give in-battle effects to previously unused items? I don't see the need for a Waterstone and a Damp Rock when they could just combine them and save room in the bag. Same with Heat Rock and Firestone. Maybe Thunderstone could grant a Lightningrod-type ability in battle. I don't know.
I've been hoping for something like variable evolution levels for awhile now. It seems strange to me that trainers will have Pokemon like a level 9 Pidgeotto or other under-leveled evolved Pokemon. I think it would be interesting if the Pokemon's evolution level were tied to its IVs. A Poke with lower IVs might evolve earlier than one with higher IVs with some sort of designated cap on them. That way if you've got something with 0/0/0/0/0/0 IVs, at least it's evolving early on to help you out in-game.
I am mostly hoping for more ways to buff older, forgotten Pokemon without giving so many new evolutions. New abilities and moves that give certain Pokemon new niches would be greatly appreciated. Obviously there are some Pokemon that simple moveset changes or abilities won't help, and they're the ones that deserve new evos.
Those are really bad names. When people make designs for fan Pokemon, they end up looking like nothing but Neopets. People need to learn Sugimori's art style and stop drawing Neopets.
Same goes for the names. Fumarunt, Steen and Guysir are pretty bad names; they don't match Game Freak's naming style at all. Remember that they Americanize names and they have to be able to roll off the tounge, be catchy, easy to remember, and something a kid would like.
If you're going to do something as lame as give an immunity ability to cover a 4x weak, Fire/Flying + Rock Immunity is way more awesome.
Fire Flying + Rock Immunity:
Weak: Water, Electric
Immune: Ground, Rock
Resists: 4x Bug, 4x Grass, Fighting, Fire, Steel
Only 2 weaks predominantly special? Sounds like Skarmory . . . no, actually, this looks arguably better than skarmory.
Gyarados Waterfall, TTar's Crunch, and Outrage. Outside of those, you resist/immune almost every other prominent physical attack in the game. Throw in Skarmory like Defensive stats, Lava Plume/w-o-w and Roost (almost guranteed for fire/flying) and you have a ridiculous physical wall.
OU Physical Sweepers out-right walled:
-Scizor
-Tyranitar (ever try breaking through Gliscor with Crunch? It doesn't work)
-Jirachi
-Metagross
-Lucario
-Infernape
-Breloom
-Machamp
-Aerodactyle
-Weavile
-Mamoswine
-Heracross
Remaining OU Physical Sweepers:
-Gyarados
-Salamence
-Flygon
-Kingdra
-Electivar
Out of these, Electivar sucks, and Salamence/Flygon have to resort to Outrage if they even want a chance (unless they carry Draco Meteor). Gyardos and Kingdra are the only physical threats that it can't at least check, and even they have to be afraid of burn.
On top of that, you have immunity to SR, Spikes and Toxic Spikes (and maybe even to sand if you construe sand as "rock" damage, sandstorm being rock type). IE. this thing is extremely difficult to wear down.
Basically, if you're going to give out an immunity to a 4x weak, there are better options than fire/rock + water immunity . . .
Fire Flying + Rock Immunity:
Weak: Water, Electric
Immune: Ground, Rock
Resists: 4x Bug, 4x Grass, Fighting, Fire, Steel
Only 2 weaks predominantly special? Sounds like Skarmory . . . no, actually, this looks arguably better than skarmory.
Gyarados Waterfall, TTar's Crunch, and Outrage. Outside of those, you resist/immune almost every other prominent physical attack in the game. Throw in Skarmory like Defensive stats, Lava Plume/w-o-w and Roost (almost guranteed for fire/flying) and you have a ridiculous physical wall.
OU Physical Sweepers out-right walled:
-Scizor
-Tyranitar (ever try breaking through Gliscor with Crunch? It doesn't work)
-Jirachi
-Metagross
-Lucario
-Infernape
-Breloom
-Machamp
-Aerodactyle
-Weavile
-Mamoswine
-Heracross
Remaining OU Physical Sweepers:
-Gyarados
-Salamence
-Flygon
-Kingdra
-Electivar
Out of these, Electivar sucks, and Salamence/Flygon have to resort to Outrage if they even want a chance (unless they carry Draco Meteor). Gyardos and Kingdra are the only physical threats that it can't at least check, and even they have to be afraid of burn.
On top of that, you have immunity to SR, Spikes and Toxic Spikes (and maybe even to sand if you construe sand as "rock" damage, sandstorm being rock type). IE. this thing is extremely difficult to wear down.
Basically, if you're going to give out an immunity to a 4x weak, there are better options than fire/rock + water immunity . . .
Drain Punch Technitop would be unreal! I love Hitmontop and that makes a lot of sense.
Scizor would be cool with Drain Punch, too :D
Scizor would be cool with Drain Punch, too :D
I'm crushed. j/k
I think they match the existing naming style and are pretty easy to say but that's a matter of opinion anyway.
TBH, I wasn't asking expecting critique, just gabbing....not like GF is gonna use anything we say.
I think we can expect the usual assortment of movepool and possibly ability upgrades.
They key question for me with abilities is whether they'll allow a choice of one from two or more since that is the only way Pokemon that already have two abilities can get any other options.
If there are more ability alternatives it would be VERY useful to have some reliable way of passing abilities when breeding.
I just meant that negating the Water weakness of a Fire/Rock type in that was is something I could easily see Gamefreak doing, not that it was the best way to go about things.
This type speculation is all extremely... interesting, but rather trivial. At best, it affects one pokemon.
Has there been any real thought put into what type of elements the new game will have that will drastically change the metagame. For instance:
GSC had held items, SpD, and two new types.
RSE had specialised stat spreads (EVs, natures) and abilities.
DPPT had physical/special split.
The above changes were viewed as flaws with the preceding generations, is there anything that's a major flaw with the current generation that would need to be fixed?
Has there been any real thought put into what type of elements the new game will have that will drastically change the metagame. For instance:
GSC had held items, SpD, and two new types.
RSE had specialised stat spreads (EVs, natures) and abilities.
DPPT had physical/special split.
The above changes were viewed as flaws with the preceding generations, is there anything that's a major flaw with the current generation that would need to be fixed?
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