Leafeon has a 60 base Special Attack. There is no way Leafeon is going to be using EnergyBall. EnergyBall would be good for adding a move to the Eevee's poor movepool. This would be great for improving that movepool.
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Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.
- Thread starter Firestorm
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I agree, they should have given Flygon Tinted Lens for massive lol's. Unresisted Outrages? Awesome!
Outrage in general was a terrible idea... And now that every Dragon has it, Game Freak can't take that back... If only there was a move filter in trading to Gen 5 to take certain moves off, but that would be a really bad idea, especially for kids who will scream when their awesome Pokemon lose their attacks.
They could take it down to 100 BP or something... but it'd still be broken. Sigh.
Energy Ball is not really needed as much when you can just run HP(Grass) with 10 less BP. Unless you want to run a different Hidden Power.
The Dragon absorbing ability sounds nice, but I just have a hard time as to seeing how that would be possible. Fire, Electricity, and Water pretty much top it there. The only other type that I could see that happening for is Poison. Like that would be useful.
Edit: Outrage isn't game breakingly overpowered. The fact that you need a steel type as a resist to it almost staple on every team does mean that it should be toned down a bit, however. Though there's no need to get anyone's panties in a knot about it.
The Dragon absorbing ability sounds nice, but I just have a hard time as to seeing how that would be possible. Fire, Electricity, and Water pretty much top it there. The only other type that I could see that happening for is Poison. Like that would be useful.
Edit: Outrage isn't game breakingly overpowered. The fact that you need a steel type as a resist to it almost staple on every team does mean that it should be toned down a bit, however. Though there's no need to get anyone's panties in a knot about it.
This. Seriously, Gamefreak gives every Dragon one of the most broken moves in the game and you guys want to make it unresisted? Dragons have plenty of ways to take out Steels (basically all of them get Earthquake and Fire Blast) and once they're out of the way, it's easy enough to sweep.
Here are my thoughts on ways to nerf currently broken things.
Dragons:
-Make better Ice types, prefferably ones with decently powerful Ice Shards and no weakness to SR.
-A Dragon Volt Absorb. A pure Dragon with this ability would be a great counter to Dragons and it would make a nice counter for things like Infernape as well, provided it can take a +2 HP Ice. Making it so it doesn't have Outrage or Dragon Dance would keep it from just being another sweeper.
Steels:
-Another Pokemon with Magnet Pull, preferably one that doesn't have a 4x Ground weaknes or a weakness to Fighting. Magnezone is pretty good, but Probopass completely sucks.
Stealth Rock:
-Rock Volt Absorb. It works just like Volt/Water Absorb but for Rock attacks. It would also absorb SR upon switching in and heal it 25%. This would be better than more Rapid Spinners, IMO, because it actually discourages the use of SR, as it would give this Pokemon free recovery.
Anything with Ice Shard (even Donphan) can easily OHKO Salamence.....Hustle Delibrid w/ Leftovers takes away 91.8-108.8 to standard DD Mence w/ Ice Shard. (lol. Little Delibird defeats Salamence, one of OU' top threats!)
Being immune to 2 status effects for the fact that the most common Pokemon who run those status effect can OHKO it (EQ is horrifyingly common, and most Toxic Pokemon run it.....As well as Bulky waters enjoying Toxic. Will-O-Wisp only shows up on rotom and Dusknoir.....And since Fire has no good physical attacks bar f-punch and f-blitze...and Poison is a poor STAB attacking type....so it wouldn't matter if that type combo got burned or not seeing fire and Poison only have good special attacks. And if it is like Flareon....)
And why would we need one when we have Heatran?
Mamoswine says yo.
I'd run that just so I could piss someone off. Lol.
So that's one. My point is we need more things like that if we want to nerf Dragons.
Huh?
If Weavile had Technician, its Ice Shard would have the same base power as Scizor's Bullet Punch. Granted, it has ten fewer points in attack, but Ice is also a far better attacking type than Steel. Technician-boosted STAB Pursuits would also be terrifying.
Besides that, Weavile gets Swords Dance and Agility for sweeping, Fake Out for general annoying-ness, and Focus Punch (or Low Kick) to punish Steels switching in expecting an Ice Shard. It even gets Double Hit...man, the more I look at this thing's move pool, the more it seems like GameFreak meant to give it Technician and just forgot. If only they had remembered...Technician Weavile would be a beast.
(On an unrelated topic, did anyone know Weavile can learn Surf? :o)
As for your ultimate dragon nerfer, DDRMaster, that got me thinking...wouldn't it be sick if the pseudo-legendary of the 5th gen was Ice/Steel? Sure, it would have two 4x weaknesses, but all other pseudo-legendaries (apart from Metagross) have been 4x weak to something, so that seems to be a running theme. Maybe it could even get Heatproof so it was only 4x weak to Fighting...this is getting to be too much speculation now, so I'll stop.
for those "pressure is a useless ability" people.
Don't you think it's pretty awesome that Latias has only 8 chances to crit Suicune? That Machamp has to waste at least half it's PP (not literally but machamp without dynamic punch is pretty bad) to have a shotat killing Suicune? Those are just two examples but pressure is better than you guys are giving it credit for (imo).
Don't you think it's pretty awesome that Latias has only 8 chances to crit Suicune? That Machamp has to waste at least half it's PP (not literally but machamp without dynamic punch is pretty bad) to have a shotat killing Suicune? Those are just two examples but pressure is better than you guys are giving it credit for (imo).
Well, that's one out of the twenty-two pressure users that find it useful. Maybe Suicune can go ahead and keep it while everyone else gets worth-while abilities. :P
Pressure only finds its use against opponents who try to stay in on the pokemon that don't have a good chance at killing it, in addition to when the moves already have a low amount of PP. I'm sure none of the pokemon would miss it too bad, even Suicune. Unless it got an ability which couldn't be used in battle, which would just be silly.
Weavile would love Technician, by the way. Wouldn't matter if the opponent had Scizor in the roster, but would be made very useful otherwise, after it's been dealt with.
Oh, and Ice/Fighting would be pretty swanky. Great STAB coverage and no Stealth Rock weakness. Hits 9 different types for super effective with STAB. 5 weaknesses, but at least none of them are x4. Having both Ice Shard and Mach Punch could be very useful.
Pressure only finds its use against opponents who try to stay in on the pokemon that don't have a good chance at killing it, in addition to when the moves already have a low amount of PP. I'm sure none of the pokemon would miss it too bad, even Suicune. Unless it got an ability which couldn't be used in battle, which would just be silly.
Weavile would love Technician, by the way. Wouldn't matter if the opponent had Scizor in the roster, but would be made very useful otherwise, after it's been dealt with.
Oh, and Ice/Fighting would be pretty swanky. Great STAB coverage and no Stealth Rock weakness. Hits 9 different types for super effective with STAB. 5 weaknesses, but at least none of them are x4. Having both Ice Shard and Mach Punch could be very useful.
Me and my friend was talking about how they can nerf dragon types and he said making an ice type stealth rock. It would be kind of cool, but it would be overkill. Since most dragons' secondary type is also weak to ice, it would pretty much turn it into the bug/flying types right now. Maybe making it when a fire type switches in, they go away?
Well, it would hit 3 OU Dragon types for a whopping 50% damage, even more than a slap to the face with Stealth Rock. The idea about Fire types canceling it out is interesting, though, as it could make some Fire type pokemon not named Infernape or Heatran viable choices in OU. But it would probably just make said two Fire pokemon more popular, to be honest.
Hey, why not? I've always wanted to see how Garchomp would do in UU :naughty:
But yeah, that would most definitely be overkill. Stealth Rock on its own is already overpowered and over-centralizing. It should either do set damage (like spikes) or a whole lot less damage. Another great thing would be if Ground types absorbed it on the switch in, like Poison types absorb toxic spikes.
Yeah after SR + that move it only leaves mence and nite with 1/4 of their hp, probably dropping them all the to nu. I knew it was overkill xD.
Really, I don't think a new pokemon is going nerf the dragon type. I think they need to make another type resist it. Really, only being resisted to one type is pretty ridiculous. First type that comes to mine is ice, then making SR doing normal damage to all pokemon would greatly nerf the dragons.
I think the best solution is simply capping damage at 25%-12.5%-6.25%. Just make it ignore quad-resists/weaks. Introduction of an ability that absorbs Rock damage might also help (absorbing SR at a rate of +12.5%), as one poster above suggested, provided that said pokemon is at least halfway decent.
I'd also like to see Poison be given a Dragon resist, given that, despite being structured as a defensive typing, it presents itself as possibly the worst typing of all (from a defensive standpoint Ice is up there as well, although STAB Ice Beams are a fairly good counterbalance to its failings defensively - maybe an Ice resist to Dragon as a secondary measure, although this might be too much).
Even then, many monoFire Pokemon are UU or NU simply because of Stealth Rock. If I had my way, it'd normalize it at 12.5%. Toxic doesn't do double damage against Plants, Will-O-Wisp won't hit Steel types for 25% damage at the end of each turn, Leech Seed, Hail, Sandstorm, entry hazards are the only form of indirect damage that can be super effect and even then that doesn't include Toxic Spikes.
GameFreak absolutely dropped the ball with this inconsistency.
The thing is, if Stealth Rocks was put at a set amount, then there would be no difference with it from Spikes other than the fact that it hits airborne pokemon and doesn't stack. I guess that's better than Yanmega and crew getting half their health taken down on the switch in, though.
One way of doing it would to make it last for a set amount of turns, just like any manually triggered weather or trick room effect. It could stay the same, while at the same time allowing said pokemon to be played in OU (Or any other tier, for that matter). It would work more so as a deterrent for the pokemon it hits super effectively, instead of some looming ass-rape waiting for them to enter the field.
One way of doing it would to make it last for a set amount of turns, just like any manually triggered weather or trick room effect. It could stay the same, while at the same time allowing said pokemon to be played in OU (Or any other tier, for that matter). It would work more so as a deterrent for the pokemon it hits super effectively, instead of some looming ass-rape waiting for them to enter the field.
"Better Ice Types" doesn't seem like a decent solution to dragons to me. After all, with that you're just revenge killing, which has never been all that good (if it were, Dugtrio would be OU). Revenge Killing, you're always playing a catch-up game, which means you're always losing-- not a situation you want to be in, and not a real "solution."
There don't have to be "counters" perse, but fairly strong checks that can switch in (with good prediction) and stop mence from kicking your ass. At the very least, stop mence from kicking your entire team's ass even if it gets killed in the process (example Latias can usually stop Gyara even if it gets it's ass stomped on hard while doing it).
I also agree with comments about pressure-- Zapdos and Suicune may enjoy it, but most (weavile) would be better off (weavile) with different abilities (weavile).
A pokemon now has essentially 3 major facets where it can gain advantages in power: Ability, Item, and Base Stats. A pokemon wants to make the very most out of all three!
For instance, even if you have an amazing item like Light Ball, you have to ask yourself if a different pokemon with better base stats wouldn't be hitting harder while holding life orb.
Azumarril may have more ATK power than Gyara with Huge Power, but there are a lot of reasons why Gyara is a better pokemon.
There don't have to be "counters" perse, but fairly strong checks that can switch in (with good prediction) and stop mence from kicking your ass. At the very least, stop mence from kicking your entire team's ass even if it gets killed in the process (example Latias can usually stop Gyara even if it gets it's ass stomped on hard while doing it).
I also agree with comments about pressure-- Zapdos and Suicune may enjoy it, but most (weavile) would be better off (weavile) with different abilities (weavile).
A pokemon now has essentially 3 major facets where it can gain advantages in power: Ability, Item, and Base Stats. A pokemon wants to make the very most out of all three!
For instance, even if you have an amazing item like Light Ball, you have to ask yourself if a different pokemon with better base stats wouldn't be hitting harder while holding life orb.
Azumarril may have more ATK power than Gyara with Huge Power, but there are a lot of reasons why Gyara is a better pokemon.
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