NP: UU - Bye Bye Bye

[IronBullet]

Venusaur's special set is nice, but has anyone tried out the Mixed set? It works very well, still destroying Bulky Waters and any Moltres or Scyther who tries to switch in, but gains additional coverage by 2HKOing Spiritomb, Clefable and Chansey. I've beaten Stall single-handedly with MixVenu. I still run Max Speed instead of the one in the analysis though.

@PK: Well Regi only beats Maggy if it runs S-Toss, Otherwise it's just fodder to setup Subs and die a slow death. Duggy does it better, but it's setup fodder while Maggy isn't.

 

[Thund91]

SD Blaziken rips apart most cores. So does SD Kabutops.

I literally went 25-4 on the ladder with Omastar / SD Kabutops(swap around with SD Blaziken) / Scarf Rotom / RP Torterra / SD Absol / Arcanine

People just crumble under the pressure of these heavy hitters, but I do feel this sort of team would only work on the ladder.

Every core has a problem with something. You can't cover everything or else stall teams would be unbeatable...

Although I find SD Blaziken a major liability unless you're facing stall.

 

[shrang]

Would Shiftry be any useful in the current metagame?? He can run both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, and the Grass typing allows him to force out bulky Water that run around UU at the moment. SD set can look something like SD/Seed Bomb/Sucker Punch/Low Kick or Explosion, while NP can look something like NP/Energy Ball or Grass Knot/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast or Explosion. His Speed isn't bad, I guess, but nothing flashy. Keep in mind this is as a stand alone sweeper, not used in a Sun team.

 

[IronBullet]

Would Shiftry be any useful in the current metagame?? He can run both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, and the Grass typing allows him to force out bulky Water that run around UU at the moment. SD set can look something like SD/Seed Bomb/Sucker Punch/Low Kick or Explosion, while NP can look something like NP/Energy Ball or Grass Knot/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast or Explosion. His Speed isn't bad, I guess, but nothing flashy. Keep in mind this is as a stand alone sweeper, not used in a Sun team.

No idea why it wouldn't, decent Speed, great Offenses. The problem is it has major problems switching in and setting up on anything as it has crappy defenses, no immunities besides the uncommon Psychic, and vulnerable to all forms of status. It has plenty of potential though.

 

[Smurf.]

I never thought i'd say this.. but CM uxie is simply phenomenal, even better than Zam. The ability to reach +6 with minimal effort makes life that much easier. It just sets up on so many things; Venusaur, Blaziken, Weezing, Hazeless Milotic, Tangrowth, Defensive Uxie etc. Once Registeel and chansey are taken care of, not much is going to stand in the way, even shit like spiritomb gets paddled.

 

[yond]

I was talking about this before, SubCm Uxie has some of the most set up opportunities I've seen from pokemon i have used this round. I'm surprised people don't realize its 95 base speed and I can set up on all those Venasaurs and Milotics. If you run max spa and max speed you can basically start hitting like a truck at +2 +3 ish.

 

[Scoopapa]

Would Shiftry be any useful in the current metagame?? He can run both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, and the Grass typing allows him to force out bulky Water that run around UU at the moment. SD set can look something like SD/Seed Bomb/Sucker Punch/Low Kick or Explosion, while NP can look something like NP/Energy Ball or Grass Knot/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast or Explosion. His Speed isn't bad, I guess, but nothing flashy. Keep in mind this is as a stand alone sweeper, not used in a Sun team.

I was using Shiftry (SD, Seed Bomb, Sucker Punch, Low Kick, Adamant) for a little bit before the Suspect vote and it was working out pretty well. The resistances it gets from the Grass type mean you can usually find an opportunity to set up if team support is right. At +2, it OHKOs Moltres with Sucker Punch and Registeel with Low Kick, both of which help a lot. Just make sure something is asleep before you try to set up, so you can nail the Venusaur on every team with Sucker Punch. Think of it like a Toxicroak with less emphasis on Low Kick and more emphasis on Sucker Punch.

 

[Flamewheeler]

Venusaur's special set is nice, but has anyone tried out the Mixed set? It works very well, still destroying Bulky Waters and any Moltres or Scyther who tries to switch in, but gains additional coverage by 2HKOing Spiritomb, Clefable and Chansey. I've beaten Stall single-handedly with MixVenu. I still run Max Speed instead of the one in the analysis though.

@PK: Well Regi only beats Maggy if it runs S-Toss, Otherwise it's just fodder to setup Subs and die a slow death. Duggy does it better, but it's setup fodder while Maggy isn't.

I posted a max speed version in the creative moveset/spread thread. I actually "invented" the one in the analysis. It does beat stall fairly easily. You're welcome. =P I love it and I may try it again.

Edit: I think the access to sleep powder and instant recovery gives it the edge over other wall breakers.

 

[anti404]

why does lead Hariyama always seem to rape my team?_? :(

 

[Flamewheeler]

why does lead Hariyama always seem to rape my team?_? :(

He's fairly hard to stop tbh. It takes good prediction to beat him. He hits like a truck with a flame/toxic orb attached, so even pokes that resist his attacks are going to get hurt. Just predict is all I can say. Moltres does a pretty good job of taking a hit and scaring him out. Spiritomb pretty much laughs at him also.

 

[IronBullet]

I was using Shiftry (SD, Seed Bomb, Sucker Punch, Low Kick, Adamant) for a little bit before the Suspect vote and it was working out pretty well. The resistances it gets from the Grass type mean you can usually find an opportunity to set up if team support is right. At +2, it OHKOs Moltres with Sucker Punch and Registeel with Low Kick, both of which help a lot. Just make sure something is asleep before you try to set up, so you can nail the Venusaur on every team with Sucker Punch. Think of it like a Toxicroak with less emphasis on Low Kick and more emphasis on Sucker Punch.

The Grass resistance isn't really saying much though, as the most common Grass type out there nails Shiftry with Sludge Bomb if it tries to set up, and both Tangrowth and Leafeon still do good damage with Power Whip/ Return thanks to Shiftry's crap defense. Those stats are impressive though...one of the few Pokes who don't give a fuck about Registeel.

@Flamewheeler: Good job:P Yeah Sleep + Synthesis means it can rape, heal and repeat throughout the whole match...unlike Blaziken who practically dies after one Flare Blitz.

 

[anti404]

He's fairly hard to stop tbh. It takes good prediction to beat him. He hits like a truck with a flame/toxic orb attached, so even pokes that resist his attacks are going to get hurt. Just predict is all I can say. Moltres does a pretty good job of taking a hit and scaring him out. Spiritomb pretty much laughs at him also.

I faced at least three different players today, and he just kept punching the fuck out of my team if I failed to predict correctly.
first time I predicted him to switch out, so I set up Rocks(with Mesprit), and he proceeds to hit me with an enormously painful Payback and switch to Slowking.
second match, I hit him with a Psychic, only to have said Psychic meet an Absol.
third match I just say eff it all and throw out TWave, only to be met with a fucking hugely painful Payback-->Bullet Punch.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

 

[MetaGross66]

I really don't know why no body uses Lapras anymore. The DD set is devastating to stall if it has no Haze user. Most common phazers such as Donphan are hit super effectively by its STAB. Substitute makes sure you can set up on things like Hazeless milotic and Chansey as well as Registeel. Spiritomb can't touch you. The list goes on and on. You guys get my point. Offense has trouble after 2 DDs. It 2KOs just about anything. Sadly, Milotic outspeeds you, and so Lum Berry could help in taking toxic, but I've found bringing it in on Registeel after saccing something to paralysis is even better since it stays in to paralyze you only to be met by Substitute and then a DD. tl;dr, there variety on the ladder, but why not any Lapras? It destroys stall.

 

[Shadow Tectike]

You know, Lapras is a viable Perish Trapper. It's fun to use but no one really gives it any merit. Guess they prefer either using Mismagius or they never have a requirement for Perish Trappers.

I'm 50-50 on seeing Raikou go. Out of biased-ness, I enjoyed using him on ONE team. On a more neutral front, he deserved to go to BL. Can you imagine what would have happened if it had stayed in UU just long enough for him to start using Aura Sphere?

I never used Froslass, either... I'm considering running a Cloyster or Omastar on my next UU team (5/6 done, but Uxie or Mesprit look to be the superior options based on the team). Cloyster's pretty amazing as a lead from what I've witnessed.

To end this random load of nonsense and utter blasphemy, Mixed Venusaur is quite a reliable set. =D

 

[Bluewind]

I really don't know why no body uses Lapras anymore. The DD set is devastating to stall if it has no Haze user. Most common phazers such as Donphan are hit super effectively by its STAB. Substitute makes sure you can set up on things like Hazeless milotic and Chansey as well as Registeel. Spiritomb can't touch you. The list goes on and on. You guys get my point. Offense has trouble after 2 DDs. It 2KOs just about anything. Sadly, Milotic outspeeds you, and so Lum Berry could help in taking toxic, but I've found bringing it in on Registeel after saccing something to paralysis is even better since it stays in to paralyze you only to be met by Substitute and then a DD. tl;dr, there variety on the ladder, but why not any Lapras? It destroys stall.

Feraligatr is stronger, Milotic is outrageously common on stall, Lapras needs way too many boosts to even start hurting something, takes 50% if it switches in all kinds of hazards, has a terrible defensive typing, is countered by Tangrowth, checked by Hitmontop as well, Spiritomb can burn it and Shadow Ball will break Lapras's subs, while Rotom can burt it and hit it with STAB, Donphan is not nearly as common on stall as the aformentioned pokés. Take your pick, and be sure it doesn't destroy stall, unless you're battling someone that has no idea what he's doing.

 

[Thund91]

DD Lapras is a really underrated threat, and the SR weak is hardly a huge deal when you heal that coming in on Water attacks. The fact Milotic are forgoing Haze or Hidden Power Grass for Ice Beam/HP Psychic for Toxicroak means that Lapras may actually be able to set up on it now. But the increased use of bulky Grass-types like Tangrowth, Leafeon, and Torterra don't do it any favors. I think the mixed DD set would work well in this meta, smacking thing with Waterfalls and Ice Beaming those Grass-types for an OHKO. Thunderbolt 2HKOs Bold Milotic and Slowbro so not much can really stop it. I recommend people give it a try.

I've been seeing so many anti-Mesprit leads like Absol, Drapion, and Scyther and it's still able to do its job, which just goes to show how great it really is. It's just a shame that everyone is starting to use it now as the surprise factor of Grass Knot is gone. Maybe I'll start running Shadow Ball since Psychic 2HKOs Cloyster, Rhyperior, and Omastar anyway....

Also since people were discussing Shiftry I tried a mix set with Sucker Punch/Leaf Storm/Low Kick/Hidden Power Ice and it has performed much better than I expected. It's just a shame it doesn't get a troll speed like Milotic or Magmortar though so you wouldn't have to risk a Speed tie with base 80s.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Mesprit is awesome, and only the occasional Houndoom or Drapion with Taunt stop it cold. And other than them, Pinsir (who Im seeing much more often now) is the only lead that I instantly switch out of in fear.
Skuntankt is a pokemon that recently gave me huge trouble, since it's just so effective at trapping (it also didnt hurt that this guy had impeccable prediction).

 

[MetaGross66]

Actually, Lapras only needs 2 DDs to do tons of damage. It takes away about half of Milotic's health after 2 DDs. With Life Orb, I'm pretty sure it's a 2KO. Also, you never see Feraligatr setting up on Milotic. HP Grass just barely breaks the standard DD sets sub (does like 28% average). With some sp. def. EVs it can set up on Milotic. Spikes aren't even common in this metagame anymore, and I'm using a spinner with it. Hitmontop can't bother with it assuming its behind a sub and at +1 which is often the case if you switch it in on Registeel. Same applies to Spiritomb. Rotom can't bother with it either under those conditions as it's outsped and 2KOed.

Bulky Grass types are really its only obstacle. Note that it does 2KO bulky Venusaur with a +1 Return, though and this isn't assuming Life Orb is held.

 

[Hooker Punch]

I wish Manetric learned Fire Blast. I hate having to choose between Flamethrower and Overheat on him.

Still, Manetric has quickly become my standard-bearer in the metagame. He outspeeds everything he's meant to beat, beats down everything it's supposed to, and can Magnet Rise to dodge EQ. Add in the ease of Baton passing CM/NP in the metagame, and you have a champ.

 

[PK Gaming]

I wish Manetric learned Fire Blast. I hate having to choose between Flamethrower and Overheat on him.

Still, Manetric has quickly become my standard-bearer in the metagame. He outspeeds everything he's meant to beat, beats down everything it's supposed to, and can Magnet Rise to dodge EQ. Add in the ease of Baton passing CM/NP in the metagame, and you have a champ.

Don't even bother. Your dying to pretty any attack so Magnet rising is simply out of the question. Overheat on Manetric is perfect. Specs Manetric is a hit and run user, and Overheat is perfect with Specs. The power loss is annoying but manageable.

 

[yond]

Don't even bother. Your dying to pretty any attack so Magnet rising is simply out of the question. Overheat on Manetric is perfect. Specs Manetric is a hit and run user, and Overheat is perfect with Specs. The power loss is annoying but manageable.

Well I'm pretty sure If your planning on running a sweeping set and are passing Spa boost to it, your going to want to run Magnet Rise in the last slot since Tbolt + Flamethrower + HP Ice hits just about everything. Magnet Rise means Dugtrio isnt AS annoying.

Speaking of Electric Type Sweepers I have been running a Modest Life Orb Electrode on my team and I have to say its living up to standards. Tbolt hits just about everything you need it to and HP ICE hits the rest you need it to hit. Explosion is always usefull as well since you outspeed everything too, and I have also been using Taunt in the last slot with success stopping all the things trying to set up on me.

 

[PK Gaming]

Well I'm pretty sure If your planning on running a sweeping set and are passing Spa boost to it, your going to want to run Magnet Rise in the last slot since Tbolt + Flamethrower + HP Ice hits just about everything. Magnet Rise means Dugtrio isnt AS annoying.

But Substitute is a better choice there. Magnet rise literally only helps you against Dugtrio and Subsitute can deter it somewhat. MR should be used on something bulky (Aggron) not on something frail (imo)

 

[Flamewheeler]

I used to run sub/tbolt/flamethrower/hp grass...it worked very well, but I haven't used it on forever, so I can't exactly vouche for it now.

I don't think that magnet rise would help him very much due to his general fraility, so stick with sub imo.

 

[Bluewind]

Actually, Lapras only needs 2 DDs to do tons of damage. It takes away about half of Milotic's health after 2 DDs. With Life Orb, I'm pretty sure it's a 2KO. Also, you never see Feraligatr setting up on Milotic. HP Grass just barely breaks the standard DD sets sub (does like 28% average). With some sp. def. EVs it can set up on Milotic. Spikes aren't even common in this metagame anymore, and I'm using a spinner with it. Hitmontop can't bother with it assuming its behind a sub and at +1 which is often the case if you switch it in on Registeel. Same applies to Spiritomb. Rotom can't bother with it either under those conditions as it's outsped and 2KOed.

Bulky Grass types are really its only obstacle. Note that it does 2KO bulky Venusaur with a +1 Return, though and this isn't assuming Life Orb is held.

- First, you assume a +2 Lapras, which no reasonable player will allow to happen, unless they have ran out of counters (which is hard on stall) or missplay, which are things you cannot rely on.
- Sub + Life Orb is absolutely contradictory, as it's Lapras' very same bulk that makes it remotely viable.
- Milotic could give less of a damn if Lapras is setting up, as it'll just have its boosts hazed away when it gets to +2 (we're assuming stall here, and no one would run 3 attacks unless they are pretty sure they got everything else covered); while it doesn't hit back for considerable damage, differently from Feraligatr.
- You're using a spinner, which means this perfect stallbreaker needs some considerable support to do its job; and you've been talking about stall all long, so Spikes are to be assumed and so is spinblocking.
- I repeat again, no player is gonna let you get +1, Substitute and then bring in their Hitmontop. People know what sweepers are capable of and will switch to their counters as soon as possible not to be swept, and Hitmontop's Intimidate + continuous Close Combats will force Lapras to lose a lot of HP subbing to win
- Repeating, Lapras will have a Sub OR have +1 status, not both.
- Registeel isn't common on stall, but balance.
- Regarding Rotom we have the following situation: Lapras switches in; Lapras uses Dragon Dance as Rotom comes in; Lapras doesn't OHKO Rotom while said floating poké either burns it or hit it with a STAB Thunderbolt; Lapras loses. Same applies to Venusaur;

 

[Midnight.]

DD Lapras is a really underrated threat, and the SR weak is hardly a huge deal when you heal that coming in on Water attacks. The fact Milotic are forgoing Haze or Hidden Power Grass for Ice Beam/HP Psychic for Toxicroak means that Lapras may actually be able to set up on it now. But the increased use of bulky Grass-types like Tangrowth, Leafeon, and Torterra don't do it any favors. I think the mixed DD set would work well in this meta, smacking thing with Waterfalls and Ice Beaming those Grass-types for an OHKO. Thunderbolt 2HKOs Bold Milotic and Slowbro so not much can really stop it. I recommend people give it a try.

So, Jynx wants to play does she? I want to start running Lapras or Dewgong just to stop Jynx from fucking me over on a game-to-game basis.

Dewgong usage spike GOGOGOGOGO!

Speaking of annoying special attackers, what are people's thoughts on the Hariyama sets outside of the lead set? Specially bulky, sleep talk and bulk up sets all look pretty good to me.