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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

@Shizzles and STEELDRAGON,
I acutually went and tried that Medicham set on Shoddy a few times and it is not all that bad. Magic Coat works wonders at putting things to sleep and even burning Rotom and paralysing Blissey. There was one battle where a player was using a Baton Pass team and his Ninjask used Baton Pass to Smeargle. I used Magic Coat and he fell asleep and resulted in him forfeiting the game.

Besides Magic Coat, the sheer power of Medicham should not be underestimated. It able to 2HKO many leads with a combination of Hi-Jump-Kick/Ice Punch and Bullet Punch. I even managed to OHKO a Togekiss with Ice Punch.

However the biggest problem with this set is Hi Jump Kick. Hi Jump Kick is truely suicide because a Pokemon like Swampert that gets 2HKO is going to switch out into a Ghost Pokemon and now you cannot do anything while losing almost half your HP from Life Orb and Hi Jump Kick recoil.

Honestly Machamp is a much better lead because it can actually survive attacks (not even Salamence can OHKO with Draco Meteor) and has great coverage with its 4 attacks. No Guard Dynamic Punch is the reason it is the most popular lead. This attack is devastating as even if the opponent switched something in to take a hit from Machamp, such as Bronzong, Skarmory and Forretress, it will still have to overcome the confusion status. On the other hand, Medicham cannot do anything to such Pokemon and is forced to switch out.

Nice idea on the Magic Coat though, I'm starting to like this move.
 
The valid point is that everyone should have a plan against machamp. In alot of RMTs, the smog, the sever stats, ect it is clear that machamp is a popular antilead. Everyone knows what it runs, and everyone has a plan against it. Machamp was excellent a month or two ago when it hadn't been as popular, but the element of surprise is gone now. Not sure about the medicham's effectiveness though.
 
Fearow (F) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 148 Spd / 108 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Heat Wave
- U-turn
- Drill Peck
- Quick Attack

Tier: I dont follow tiers. I use my pokemon in standard always, so this fearow is for "standard"

I'm very happy with this moveset and I would like to share it.
 
Mazaki Anzu said:
Fearow (F) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 148 Spd / 108 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Heat Wave
- U-turn
- Drill Peck
- Quick Attack

Tier: I dont follow tiers. I use my pokemon in standard always, so this fearow is for "standard"

I'm very happy with this moveset and I would like to share it.
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You don't have to follow Smogon's tiers, but you still have to use Pokemon that aren't completely outclassed if you want to win. Crobat performs the duties of this set better than Fearow in every way. It's faster, it has higher SpA, and higher defenses. It also has better typing that allows it to switch into Ground, Fighting, Bug, and Grass attacks with relative impunity. Fearow's poor defenses mean it'll take over 50% from many resisted attacks.

In fact, take a look at the Life Orb set. You can use Quick Attack over Roost, if you'd like, but it really won't do you much good.
Crobat @ Life Orb
Naive Nature
EVs: 204 Atk / 88 SpA / 216 Spe
Brave Bird
Heat Wave
U-turn
Roost

This Crobat has 311-267-196-198-176-385 stats, while your Fearow only has 271-279-166-185-142-300 stats. It also does a hell of a lot more damage, and the Brave Bird and LO recoil isn't all that big of a deal since you're probably not going to get to switch in and attack more than once or twice anyway, and you can Roost it off.

The only thing this Fearow is doing is checking...Roserade and Heracross, I guess. There is really no reason to use Fearow in OU. The only thing it has that Crobat doesn't is Baton Pass, which Gliscor does better. Expert Belt doesn't do you much good with Fire/Flying/Normal coverage. Also, I don't know if you meant Spe (Speed) or SpD (Special Defense) in your EV spread, but 148 SpD will not help it in any way (especially since you're running a -SpD nature), and 148 Speed does not outspeed anything of interest, except maybe Choice Specs Shaymin, who will beat you unless it misses on Seed Flare or if it's locked into Earth Power.
 
Azelf @ Life Orb
Naive Nature
EVs: 128 Atk/ 128 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spe
Psychic
Flamethrower
Ice Punch
HP Fighting


This set has been working fantastic for me lately. One of the biggest things about it is that it 2HKO's Tyranitar, so anything but a Scarftar is done. (Too bad Scarftar is most common >_<) But another huge plus about this set is Ice Punch-even after intimidate, this will OHKO most offensive Salamence after SR, and even without it sometimes. Psychic and Flamethrower are for additional coverage and STAB. If you really hate Psychic's offense, though, you can go for U-Turn, Grass Knot, T-Bolt, or pretty much anything else.
 
Well, I stopped using this, so here it is:

a0z2v4.png


Heatran@Choice Specs
Modest
66 Hp/252 Spa/192 Spe
-Overheat
-HP Grass
-Earthpower/Dragon Pulse
-Magma Storm/Explosion/Stealth Rock

This thing can destroy most common leads, except, ironically, heatran itself.

Azelf: Magma Storm breaks the sash and OHKOs

Metagross: Overheat KOs through Occa

Machamp: Overheat does 100% min.

Swapert: HP Grass OHKOs

Jirachi: They can trick if they want, I get a scarf and still OHKO with either fire move

Ape: I surive 64 Atk fake out + close combat with these HP evs. I can bring it to 1% with EP, or deal 80 something with magma storm and have the residual eventually kill it.

-----------

Roserade: If they do anything but sleep powder, you will as magma storm breaks sashes.

Aerodactyl: Clear loss. You can 2HKO, but they can set up rocks and KO you, or taunt and KO you.

Heatran: Outspeeds you and, only if they attack first, wins with EP.

Gyarados, salamence, and starmie switchins take over 50%. (From magmastorm)
Some problems are being setup on, being revenge killed, ect.
 
nygerman said:
Gabite Jolly @Choice Scarf
4hp 252 in attack and spd
Earthquake
Outrage
Dragon Claw
Stone Edge

This set is designed for OU. An excellent dragon killer. Your opponents won't see this coming.
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I don't want to shut down two sets in one day, but Scarf Flygon does the EXACT same thing and has better stats in every area, plus a Ground immunity and U-turn. Everything that stops Flygon stops this. The only POSSIBLE reason to use this would be to make your opponent go, "A Gabite?! What the hell?" And then you would get 1hko'd by a neutral attack. I realize that a lot of the sets in this thread are gimmick sets, but when something is so obviously outclassed, it really doesn't need to be posted here.
 
prediction, that this what pokemon is

Someone has a Salamence.

Sees a Flygon, oh fuck, switches

See a Gabite, HAHAHAHA, gets fucked by STAB outrage
 
nygerman said:
prediction, that this what pokemon is

Someone has a Salamence.

Sees a Flygon, oh fuck, switches

See a Gabite, HAHAHAHA, gets fucked by STAB outrage
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Flygon is only switched in to revenge kill Salamence once it's locked into Outrage. What do you think Salamence is going to be doing against Gabite, Earthquake? Gabite will be 1hko'd by Outrage or Draco Meteor. At least Jolly Flygon can speed tie a DDMence and have a chance to 1hko.
 
gabite has something flygon does have and that's shadow claw


i have experience and I've killed mences and dragonites, and weak defensive pokemon

it doesn't beat flygon stat wise, but it sure does predictable wise
 
nygerman said:
why mence switch into gabite
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Why Gabite switch into Mence? I was under the assumption that this was after a double switch.
nygerman said:
gabite has something flygon does have and that's shadow claw
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Irrelevant.
nygerman said:
i have experience and I've killed mences and dragonites, and weak defensive pokemon
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I've swept teams with Seismic Toss / Toxic / Cosmic Power Clefable. Doesn't mean it's good.
nygerman said:
it doesn't beat flygon stat wise, but it sure does predictable wise
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So? That doesn't mean it's better.
 
nygerman said:
gabite has something flygon does have and that's shadow claw


i have experience and I've killed mences and dragonites, and weak defensive pokemon

it doesn't beat flygon stat wise, but it sure does predictable wise
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Shadow Claw doesn't help Gabite at all, Outrage and Earthquake hit everything harder.

If you want to be unpredictable, then use something that can actually lure out and kill things like Salamence.
 
You are not using Shadow Claw on your set (not that it helps). You are using the exact same set that Choice Scarf Flygon has, without U-turn. That is not a new, or creative set. That is just a bad Flygon.
 
don't double post, it could net you an infraction :(, use the edit button.
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Yeah, sorry about that, it took me a while to write the first post, and then, I forgot to edit the post.

Unexpectedness can be good, but pure inferiority is not.
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Medicham, is not entirely inferior to Machamp, it may have less move coverage, and it doesn't have that niche of Dynamic Punch, but it almost makes up for it, because it is much more powerful(624 atk vs. 394 atk). Most pokemon don't want to take a hit from something with 624 attack.

However the biggest problem with this set is Hi Jump Kick. Hi Jump Kick is truely suicide because a Pokemon like Swampert that gets 2HKO is going to switch out into a Ghost Pokemon and now you cannot do anything while losing almost half your HP from Life Orb and Hi Jump Kick recoil.
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I agree, However, that is the most optimial fighting move, for the set. There are a few more options, for fighting moves that could be utilized, and much safer to use, Low kick and Brick break. Low kick is notable because it will always 2ko hippowdon. I havent tried Drain punch, but coming off 624 attack, It could provide some recovery.

Honestly Machamp is a much better lead because it can actually survive attacks (not even Salamence can OHKO with Draco Meteor) and has great coverage with its 4 attacks. No Guard Dynamic Punch is the reason it is the most popular lead. This attack is devastating as even if the opponent switched something in to take a hit from Machamp, such as Bronzong, Skarmory and Forretress, it will still have to overcome the confusion status. On the other hand, Medicham cannot do anything to such Pokemon and is forced to switch out.
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It is true that Machamp is significantly more bulky than Medicham, but Medicham 2koes most Bronzong, Skarmory, Forrtress, with High Jump Kick, so they aren't safe switch ins. And if you arent running Magic Coat, you have the option of Fire punch, which will OHKO fortress. As I have shown before, It doesn't have No Guard Dynamic Punch, but Medicham has 230 more attack than machamp, factoring in the life orb. I think Medicham is a viable lead, If you prefer "Higher risk, Higher return", but Machamp is way more reliable because of its bulk and confusion-inducing move.

I also going to test this set in UU, because Machoke has almost has 1/2 of the attack than Medicham, and their are of similar bulk.
 
@STEELDRAGON, the only part I don't understand in your whole post is "Higher risk, Higher return", where in fact it should be higher risk and same return. As mentioned before, Dynamic Punch is quite literally an amazing move, yes its goddamn predictable, but nothing much can be done about it, unless your opponent is carrying around a Rotom or Spiritomb which can Will o Wisp. The thing is, bulky pokemon if at all are going to be the ones switching in, Machamp Dynamic Punches on the switch, doing however much damage, and getting confusion, so their counter or check or fodder gets confused, rendering them somewhat useless. Ghosts without Psychic cannot OHKO back, and receive a nasty Payback, whereas most Gengar and the like can OHKO Medicham with Shadow Ball, and also remember the like 10-50% HP Loss from recoil and a possible Hi Jump Kick miss.
 
Shizzle said:
@STEELDRAGON, the only part I don't understand in your whole post is "Higher risk, Higher return", where in fact it should be higher risk and same return. As mentioned before, Dynamic Punch is quite literally an amazing move, yes its goddamn predictable, but nothing much can be done about it, unless your opponent is carrying around a Rotom or Spiritomb which can Will o Wisp. The thing is, bulky pokemon if at all are going to be the ones switching in, Machamp Dynamic Punches on the switch, doing however much damage, and getting confusion, so their counter or check or fodder gets confused, rendering them somewhat useless. Ghosts without Psychic cannot OHKO back, and receive a nasty Payback, whereas most Gengar and the like can OHKO Medicham with Shadow Ball, and also remember the like 10-50% HP Loss from recoil and a possible Hi Jump Kick miss.
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There is no safe switch-ins to Medicham, with a full offensive set, It can 2ko or OHKO everything in the OU/BL tier, with the exception of Cresselia, and to note those are pretty rare, they were in UU at one point. If Gengar predicts wrong, then it could ineffective. Bullet punch 2koes it, and if it switches even on a resisted move, then Medicham could prabably finish it off with Bullet punch. Medicham dishes out more damage, with or with out confusion. Medicham is a higer risk, because of Life orb, and If you select the fighting move to be High jump Kick, it could lose 30+%, because it misses(only 10% chance), switching to a ghost type, or Protect(it's pretty easy to predict which pokemon have it, mainly wishpassers, blissey, vaporeon, etc.) Medicham is less reliable because it is less bulky and High jump kick may miss, Life orb recoil, no confusion-inducing. Medicham, though has a higer return, because its attack is nearly 60% greater than Machamp's(factoring in LO), It is a bit faster than Machamp, and does overall much greater damage.(unless of confusion hax) The chances of being hurt in confusion is only 50%, it is a perk, however, most of the bulky pokemon don't care that much about that, unless they hit themselves over and over.
 
STEELDRAGON said:
There is no safe switch-ins to Medicham, with a full offensive set, It can 2ko or OHKO everything in the OU/BL tier, with the exception of Cresselia, and to note those are pretty rare, they were in UU at one point. If Gengar predicts wrong, then it could ineffective. Bullet punch 2koes it, and if it switches even on a resisted move, then Medicham could prabably finish it off with Bullet punch. Medicham dishes out more damage, with or with out confusion. Medicham is a higer risk, because of Life orb, and If you select the fighting move to be High jump Kick, it could lose 30+%, because it misses(only 10% chance), switching to a ghost type, or Protect(it's pretty easy to predict which pokemon have it, mainly wishpassers, blissey, vaporeon, etc.) Medicham is less reliable because it is less bulky and High jump kick may miss, Life orb recoil, no confusion-inducing. Medicham, though has a higer return, because its attack is nearly 60% greater than Machamp's(factoring in LO), It is a bit faster than Machamp, and does overall much greater damage.(unless of confusion hax) The chances of being hurt in confusion is only 50%, it is a perk, however, most of the bulky pokemon don't care that much about that, unless they hit themselves over and over.
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Just doing more damage isn't an accurate assessment of return. What are the OHKOS or 2HKOs that Medicham gets and Machamp doesn't? You need to show a really sizable difference, especially since Confusion handicaps almost anything to switch in on him.
 
@STEELDRAGON, its not the damage they do to themself from confusion thats whats awesome, but rather that they won't attack, and Machamp can easily keep hitting them and inevitably killing them if luck plays in its favour, 50% is more than enough for it to be good. You constantly undermine how good this move is.

What you don't seem to understand, to 2HKO most of those pokemon you listed, you need to use x2 Hi Jump Kick, right? So you are going to use Hi Jump Kick, and against any semi decent player, they are going to switch to their ghost pokemon, and OHKO back. You constantly assume that you are going to nail pokemon on the switch and stuff.

Even if Medicham DOES kill the opposing lead, as long as they have SR down, its still dead even. Aerodactyl does not care about anything other than getting SR down, which it does against Medicham, and if you use bullet punch on the first turn, he can just switch out to practically anything [as steel has shitty coverage] and OHKO with almost anything, because Medicham is slow.

Assuming that your opponent is going to stay in for the 2HKO is plain stupidity. Dragonite works because he has a MUCH better movepool, nothing likes a 328 STAB LO Draco Meteor or any of its other moves.


Already others have also had their input that Machamp is better, I don't see the point in continuing this, Medicham lead is inferior to Machamp...
 
The whole point of Machamp is that it is a reliable way to get an early lead in the match, at the cost of being unable to set up Stealth Rock, and usually allowing your opponent to set up Stealth Rock. Machamp 2hkos many common leads, is bulky enough to avoid being 2hkoed, and hurts your opponent's ability to switch in with the 100% confusion provided by DynamicPunch.

STEELDRAGON said:
Machamp struggles against the bulkiest leads, particularly, Hippowdon, Metagross, Swampert, Forrtress, and to extent Celebi and Jirachi. Medicham can muscle its way though most of those leads, and come out alive. Machamp proabably has the most problems with Hippowdon, since it can easily take a hit, and set up SR, and then slack off, and roar away unless, it gets haxed out. Bulk does help, and with 252 HP evs, it surivives what ever it needs to(one hit though).
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Uh, Medicham loses to every single one of those Pokemon. Machamp can actually beat Swampert, 3hkoing it and taking minimal damage from Earthquake and Ice Beam. It even has a 25% chance at stopping it from getting SR up.

Hi Jump Kick does 56.3%-66.8% to Lead Metagross and takes 88.5%-104.6% from Meteor Mash. That's almost always a 1hko with your LO Recoil. If it doesn't 1hko, Metagross can always Bullet Punch to finish.

Hi Jump Kick does 49.8%-58.7% to Lead Swampert, but doesn't confuse it and allows it to set up Stealth Rock. Swampert can then switch to any Pokemon. You have great coverage but you know nothing about your opponent's team except its lead when Medicham is in the lead spot. Your best option is just to Hi Jump Kick again. In comes anything that resists it. Medicham may have the equivalent of 170 base attack, but it's still not 1hkoing everything and at best it's just going to hurt two Pokemon badly before it dies due to its wet paper bag defenses. At best. If you're up against a suicide lead like Aerodactyl or Azelf, you both lose a Pokemon and they get Rocks up.
 
Ultimate Salamence stopper

Metagross@Shuca Berry
Impish
156 Hp 80Atk 252 Def 12 Spd 8 Sp Def
Bullet Punch/Meteor mash
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Explosion

An excellent Salamence killer. Switch to this when Salamence DDs. This set is designed to survive two earthquakes unboosted or guaranteed survival from one +4 Earthquake from Salamence with life orb. OHKOs Salamence with ice punch. You can run 156/252/100 if you to resist fire blast a little more. 262 fire blast will 2HKO so watch out. The 80 Atk Evs are for 2HKOing 252hp Jirachi. Bullet Punch and Meteor Mash are up to you. Meteor Mash will not OHKO Tyranitar with 252hp. 2 Earthquakes and a bullet punch will do just as well. An ice punch followed by a BP will kill Aerodactyl while EQ with BP will always kill an Infernape. With 8 Sp Def, there's a 47% chance that Infernape will kill metagross while Metagross has 100% to ko with EQ and BP. However Infernape can carry Mach Punch. You can run 88 Sp Def to survive max damage Fire Blast from 64 Sp Atk Infernape with 1 hp. 12 Spd is for Specs Magnezone. Although specs cannot OHKO Metagross with hidden power fire.


+6 Earthquake from 232 Salamence without life orb has a 8% chance to OHKO. Run 172 hp to survive + 6 EQ max damage with 1 hp. Outrage is not a problem. Fire Blast is the only thing to watch out as it has a 78% chance of 2HKOing.

Team Options: Rapid spin is very important for this set to work. The 6% damage could cause metagross it's life. Starmie is a good choice as it resists fire and is also fast.

+5 Earthquake will not OHKO Metagross and neither will fire blast after SR. With life orb, Metagross can still survive +4 Earthquake. I not sure you want Mence to do that of course.

Conclusion: Ultimate Mence stopper. When Mence uses one of your pokemon as set up bait, switch to Gross. If he DDs, you kill Mence while he doesn't even do have to you. If he EQs on the switch, you'll still survive after 2 max damage EQs. You'll be able to revenge kill it up to +4 EQ after SR. You'll have 16% chance to survive + EQ. However, don't let Mence set that much on you.
 
MixMence 1hko's you 100% of the time with Fire Blast after SR damage. DDMence will be forced out, but it can do 79.4%-93.5% damage with Fire Blast if it chooses to stay in. Fire Blast does more damage than a +1 Earthquake, so I'm not sure why you think Salamence would use EQ in the first place. Metagross should use a Occa Berry, if anything. That will help it stop MixMence, provided you don't switch in on a Fire Blast. Salamence almost always uses Fire Blast, Draco Meteor, or Dragon Dance on the first turn, so good luck with that.

Ice Punch is also pretty unnecessary. Meteor Mash does 53.8% - 63.7%, and you have Bullet Punch. In any case, a standard Occa Berry Metagross is just as effective against Salamence.
 
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