Quality Control Documentation

[Legacy Raider]

Also, quick note:

[SET]
name: Specialized Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Dark Pulse
move 4: Taunt / Beat Up
item: Leftovers / Passho Berry
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA

You don't want the 4 EVs in HP as it makes Houndoom's HP divisible by 4 (292), just chuck them in SpD to take Surf better.

 

[Xia]

I can write CM Clefable.

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

I think you should remove the Scarf/Specs set on Salamence for two reasons.

1. It's completly outclassed by Latias, who boasts a much better special movepool and Trick. Latias also has 10 more points in speed, which guarantees the ability to outspeed +1 Salamence and Flygon, unlike Salamence who must risk the 50% speed tie (with scarf).

2. All choice users must be able to switch in easily since they have to switch out a lot. With Salamence being weak to SR, it can only switch in 4x at the most.

I would also replace the CB set for Mence, but its the only Choice set that isn't really "outclassed" by anything.

 

[Colonel M]

I don't feel that Scarf Salamence is outclassed by Latias at all. I've used it before on OU teams with healthy amounts of success. Yes, the 25% recoil is annoying as hell, but it's capabilities offensively cannot be ignored.

Specs I might give you. Though I want to wait until Latias is officially OU before we go removing the Specs set.

 

[Batl Skard]

1. It's completly outclassed by Latias,

I have to argue here, because I usually find myself in particular positions with both.

With Salamence there is no way to guess whether or not it will be Physical or Special. I have assumed Physical for most Specs variants and felt a harsh blow when Draco Meteor strikes a Pokemon for a potential kill. You could try to guess based off of the teammates but that has ended up with incorrect guessing for me at times anyway.

With Latias you could guess that it will either pack specs, CM or be support. I have less trouble predicting a Draco Meteor from Latias and can respond more easily, or even set up to kill without worry. Seeing Blissey come in on my own Draco Meteor is bad enough as it is, and using Trick usually means that I lose some power that might be needed in the long run, and could go to some other pokemon that might benefit from it. (Too many Scarfed Brelooms in my day)

This isn't a definitive statement that Salamence is better, but I would say that it is a lot harder to wall, due to the unpredicability. I believe that Latias might be better for the role overall, but when you factor in Salamence's versatility and unpredicability, I become more comfortable using Salamence.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Specs should go away. Even without Latias, it's still:

- too slow. It needs Modest to do most of its super crippling damage, and it just can't get away with that with 100 base Speed.
- SR weak. Sucks. Bigtime. It really, REALLY limits its ability to switch in, even with the advantage of Intimidate.
- No Trick. Unless you wanna run some gimmicky shit like Specs + Brick Break, you're getting raped by Blissey 24-7.

However, Scarf stays. I have used it, and absolutely love it flat out. It provides Salamence with much-needed immediate speed, and can come in throughout the game to revenge opponents and even sweep weakened teams.

 

[Setsuna]

I kind of agree with SDS on this. From my point of view, in mid-game battles Choice Specs Salamence has nearly 3 opportunities of using his most powerful attack. This is obviously due to SR damage, and you just can't stay in with Salamence using Dragon Pulse or whatever because you're gonna get set up on sooner or later. A player can evidently use Wish and attempt to heal Salamence, but this will be practically impossible most of the time. Additionally, the issue with Salamence's base Speed is another worrying point, as this set does need a Modest nature in order to function as it should. Otherwise SpecsMence would be another random revenge killer, and not a good one because of the impediment of switching in and out on different occasion. However, what happens with the Scarf set is something quite different, since it is taken for granted that you'll be using Salamence for revenge killing not everything that comes out, but selected Pokemon, and also the usefulness that Choice Scarf adds is just important.

So yeah, throwing in my support on the removal of Specs, and maintaining Scarf.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

scarf mence is amazing and doesn't need removed, but i believe the ev's need tweaking. salamence's main advantage is the surprise factor, and things like latias usually try to kill it but then end up eating an outrage. great set

 

[KnightoftheWind]

I have used Choice Specs Salamence successfully in combination with Choice Specs Latias. The idea is that one of them wears down Steel-types with powerful Draco Meteors and when it dies, the other Dragon takes down the weakened Steels with Dragon Pulse and sweeps the team. When it comes to choosing between Specs Salamence and Specs Latias though, I'll definitely agree that Salamence is outclassed. Just move Specs Salamence to Optional Changes and mention it in the Team Options for Specs Latias.

 

[Setsuna]

Philip, I just caught a small detail on Tyranitar's analysis:

There are some options on the special side that were not mentioned and could work decently on the Choice Specs set. Hidden Power Rock or AncientPower could be used for a STAB move on the special end of the spectrum, but their type coverage rarely makes up for the by the other moves because of their low Base Power. Surf is a good option against Rhyperior, but it is less of an option when compared to Hidden Power Grass, which not only hits Rhyperior for massive damage, but Swampert as well. Overall though, you will find that the moves listed under the Choice Specs set work better than these other options.

As you can see, this paragraph emphasizes on the "Choice Specs set", but the truth is that that set was removed in the last round of QC, so probably the paragraph in question should be re-worded/eliminate as well.

 

[wavedash]

Mewtwo, also known as the classic “God” of Pokémon, is certainly no slouch. Its offensive stats and huge Speed coupled with its amazing offensive movepool, giving coverage on pretty much any Pokemon, are hard to compare with other Pokémon. Mewtwo might have to share its throne with Kyogre, Darkrai, and other powerful threats; however, Mewtwo has a lot going for it with its “perfectly placed” stats and vast movepool. One of Mewtwo's most fearsome qualities is its amazing versatility. It can function well as a sweeper, a wall to many threats in the Ubers metagame with its underestimated bulk and plethora of defensive moves, or a supporter, so one must be extremely careful of Mewtwo's sheer unpredictability. In fact, Mewtwo many skills make it pretty much uncounterable. Mewtwo's only bad qualities are its bad STAB and lack of resistances that a lot of other Uber Pokemon can boast, but these are very minor faults. “Fear” is the one thing you should think about when facing a Mewtwo, as it is one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the game.

I don't get it.

 

[Ashib]

Expert Belt on Revenge Killer Weavile

On the Weavile analysis, the "Revenge Killer" has the item "Choice Band" attached to it. I feel that the "Expert Belt" is an overall better item.

Most of the time, Weavile will be revenge killing pokémon that are weak to its moves. This infers that the boost provided by the Expert Belt will almost always take effect. Also, something which happened a lot to me, a set-up sweeper often follows the pokémon that has just been revenge killed on an attack that has been locked by Choice Band which is usually resisted or neutral. So I think an Expert Belt would catch those set-up sweepers off-guard if they predicted a Choice Band. Even better: If Weavile packs a super-effective move, not only can he select it, but he also gets the Expert Belt boost :D. And in the case where your opponent knows that you equipped Weavile with an Expert Belt (which is rare unless he/she fought you before as an Expert Belt leaves no trace), those set-up sweeper will no more be tempted to come in on Weavile anymore.

Here are some calculations to show how well an Expert Belt Weavile against pokémon he will be revenge killing and also pokémon that might come on Weavile after it revenge killed a pokémon (I am only listing the MOST COMMON movesets):
[Note: Cases where Expert Belt misses a OHKO where a Choice Band wouldn't are printed in bold]

Hide

Salamence
Ice Shard vs Dragon Dance/New MixMence/Choice Band/Choice Scarf without factoring Intimidate: 110-130.5% (OHKO)
Ice Shard vs Classic MixMence without factoring Intimidate: 103.7-123.1% (OHKO)
Ice Shard vs Choice Specs without factoring Intimidate: 108.8-127.5% (OHKO)

Dragonite:
Ice Shard vs MixNite: 97.8-115.8% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Ice Shard vs Dragon Dance: 81.9-96.9% (OHKO only after Stealth Rock)
Ice Shard vs Anti-Lead: 97.8-115.8% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Tyranitar:
Low Kick vs Choice Scarf: 159.9-189.5% (OHKO)
Low Kick vs Choice Band: 143.6-170.1% (OHKO)
Low Kick vs Dragon Dance: 159.9-189.5% (OHKO)
Low Kick vs Lead/TiraniBoah: 135.4-160.4% (OHKO)
Low Kick vs +1 Curse: 86.6-103.2% (possible OHKO, possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Azelf:
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Lead: 91.4-108.6% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock, though not really possible as it's a suicide lead)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Nasty Plot Sweeper/Special Choice/Physical Choice: 91.1-108.2% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Life Orb: 91.4-108.2% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Starmie:
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Rapid Spinner: 65.8-78% (2HKO)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs NonChoice Attacker/Choice Scarf/Choice Specs/TrickScarf Lead: 85.9-102.3% (possible OHKO, possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Rotom-A:
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Choice: 77.3-92.1% (OHKO only after Stealth Rock)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Standard: 48-57.6% (possible 2HKO, 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
Pursuit (on the switch vs Boosting Sweeper: 68.5-81.7% (2HKO)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs RestTalk: 50.3-59.9% (2HKO)

Gengar:
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Substitute Special: 115.3-135.5% (OHKO)
Pursuit (on the swith) vs MYSTICgar/Substitute Pain Split/Life Orb/Choice Scarf: 113.8-134.9% (OHKO)

Breloom:
Ice Punch vs Spore Puncher/Swords Dance: 84.5-100.8% (possible OHKO, possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Ice Punch vs Spore Puncher: 49.4-58.4% (possible 2HKO, 2HKO after Stealt Rock. Note: Choice Band would miss the OHKO too)
Ice Punch vs Facade/Choice Scarf: 85.1%-101.5% (possible OHKO, possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)

So we see that the only very problematic pokémon here is rotom-a... but I think there are better pokes to deal with him.

How's my suggestion? :D

 

[Philip7086]

On the Weavile analysis, the "Revenge Killer" has the item "Choice Band" attached to it. I feel that the "Expert Belt" is an overall better item.

Most of the time, Weavile will be revenge killing pokémon that are weak to its moves. This infers that the boost provided by the Expert Belt will almost always take effect. Also, something which happened a lot to me, a set-up sweeper often follows the pokémon that has just been revenge killed on an attack that has been locked by Choice Band which is usually resisted or neutral. So I think an Expert Belt would catch those set-up sweepers off-guard if they predicted a Choice Band. Even better: If Weavile packs a super-effective move, not only can he select it, but he also gets the Expert Belt boost :D. And in the case where your opponent knows that you equipped Weavile with an Expert Belt (which is rare unless he/she fought you before as an Expert Belt leaves no trace), those set-up sweeper will no more be tempted to come in on Weavile anymore.

Here are some calculations to show how well an Expert Belt Weavile against pokémon he will be revenge killing and also pokémon that might come on Weavile after it revenge killed a pokémon (I am only listing the MOST COMMON movesets):
[Note: Cases where Expert Belt misses a OHKO where a Choice Band wouldn't are printed in bold]

Hide

Salamence
Ice Shard vs Dragon Dance/New MixMence/Choice Band/Choice Scarf without factoring Intimidate: 110-130.5% (OHKO)
Ice Shard vs Classic MixMence without factoring Intimidate: 103.7-123.1% (OHKO)
Ice Shard vs Choice Specs without factoring Intimidate: 108.8-127.5% (OHKO)

Dragonite:
Ice Shard vs MixNite: 97.8-115.8% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Ice Shard vs Dragon Dance: 81.9-96.9% (OHKO only after Stealth Rock)
Ice Shard vs Anti-Lead: 97.8-115.8% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Tyranitar:
Low Kick vs Choice Scarf: 159.9-189.5% (OHKO)
Low Kick vs Choice Band: 143.6-170.1% (OHKO)
Low Kick vs Dragon Dance: 159.9-189.5% (OHKO)
Low Kick vs Lead/TiraniBoah: 135.4-160.4% (OHKO)
Low Kick vs +1 Curse: 86.6-103.2% (possible OHKO, possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Azelf:
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Lead: 91.4-108.6% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock, though not really possible as it's a suicide lead)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Nasty Plot Sweeper/Special Choice/Physical Choice: 91.1-108.2% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Life Orb: 91.4-108.2% (possible OHKO, OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Starmie:
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Rapid Spinner: 65.8-78% (2HKO)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs NonChoice Attacker/Choice Scarf/Choice Specs/TrickScarf Lead: 85.9-102.3% (possible OHKO, possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Rotom-A:
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Choice: 77.3-92.1% (OHKO only after Stealth Rock)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Standard: 48-57.6% (possible 2HKO, 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
Pursuit (on the switch vs Boosting Sweeper: 68.5-81.7% (2HKO)
Pursuit (on the switch) vs RestTalk: 50.3-59.9% (2HKO)

Gengar:
Pursuit (on the switch) vs Substitute Special: 115.3-135.5% (OHKO)
Pursuit (on the swith) vs MYSTICgar/Substitute Pain Split/Life Orb/Choice Scarf: 113.8-134.9% (OHKO)

Breloom:
Ice Punch vs Spore Puncher/Swords Dance: 84.5-100.8% (possible OHKO, possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Ice Punch vs Spore Puncher: 49.4-58.4% (possible 2HKO, 2HKO after Stealt Rock. Note: Choice Band would miss the OHKO too)
Ice Punch vs Facade/Choice Scarf: 85.1%-101.5% (possible OHKO, possible OHKO after Stealth Rock)

So we see that the only very problematic pokémon here is rotom-a... but I think there are better pokes to deal with him.

How's my suggestion? :D

Very nice post Ashib, I'm looking forward to contributions from you in the future if this is the sort of detailed quality you will be offering. However, this would have probably been a better place to post that. I think you should be happy to see that Life Orb is now being slashed with Choice Band on the Revenge Killer set, which should hit on the concerns you have.

 

[NightmareZ]

Slight worry about the mixpert lead set on the swampert analysis. As someone has removed latias's name form this for obvious reasons (its banning)

"Ice Beam keeps Salamence at bay, and does passable damage to Celebi. Don't rely on it to do much to the latter two though, as Swampert's Special Attack isn't stellar, and both can easily heal off the damage."

The bolded word needs to be removed

 

[jumpluff]

Slight worry about the mixpert lead set on the swampert analysis. As someone has removed latias's name form this for obvious reasons (its banning)

"Ice Beam keeps Salamence at bay, and does passable damage to Celebi. Don't rely on it to do much to the latter two though, as Swampert's Special Attack isn't stellar, and both can easily heal off the damage."

The bolded word needs to be removed

In future, this sort of on-site correction belongs here, but I'll fix it. Thanks!

 

[NightmareZ]

Sorry bout that jumpluff, I couldnt find the right thread so I decided this one woul be the best.

 

[Philip7086]

Due to quite a few UU QC members being on vacation, I am lowering the approval/rejection minimum to two until they get back.

 

[Setsuna]

Tangrowth:
-Analysis needs to be rewritten - currently focuses on OU***
-Removed Choice Specs set***
-Removed Knock it Off, Mojonbo Rules Here set***
-Added new main set called "Standard": Leaf Storm / Power Whip, HP Ice, Synthesis, Sleep Powder / Stun Spore / Leech Seed, Bold / Impish, 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD, @ Leftovers***

I would like to highlight this as those changes have not been implemented. As Twist of Fate and Eo Ut Mortus stated here and here, the Choice Specs and "Knock it Off, Mojonbo Rules Here" sets had to be removed, while the "Standard" set should be the one to put on-site. On the other hand, Seven Deadly Sins expressed on this post that he would write Tangrowth, so this should solve half of the problem. I would like SDS to comment on the writing of Tangrowth, and also know why the underlined sets were not removed from the on-site analysis. Thanks.

 

[whistle]

um there is a tangrowth update and the author has been good about updating qc recommendations (in tangrowth and also in all his other analyses). he even pmed me to ask for grammar checks on his analyses that others forgot about while he kept them updated. he also has a good history in c&c so he should be allowed to finish the analysis that he started (before sds claimed it).

i know kd and august have been using specs tangrowth very effectively recently so that removal may have to be revisited. there's already some discussion in that thread, and putting future discussion about qc changes regarding tangrowth in that thread as well would make everything more organized.

 

[Setsuna]

Fair enough, thanks.

 

[whistle]

proposal (suggested to me by darkie): since stamps don't look very professional and their main draw is that they are easy to see when skimming through a page, I think we should switch to using colored, bolded, and large font.

something like:

QC APPROVED (x/3) which is the green in the fourth column and second row, size 3 font. it's green because QC is like a green light to write your analysis!

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Can we do the same with a QC denial, except in red font?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I agree with the sentiment for using the "APPROVED" and "REJECTED" with counts next to them. It's what we've done with the GP since its inception and it has been very successful, so I definitely recommend it.

 

[eric the espeon]

I don't see reason to stop using the stamp, but it makes sense to have a number by the stamp to save counting stamps.

 

[Setsuna]

I don't see reason to stop using the stamp either. It's not such a big deal to count the stamps, even when three is pretty much the number of approvals we always request for before moving a thread. What I would like to see is the proposed idea being implemented for rejections, as this would make the rejection to be "more visible". However, for both cases approvals and disapprovals, I've never found myself in some kind of trouble when seeing if a thread is ready to be moved or not.