Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

[sunyshore.com]

Wait, ... did that actually happen? I mean, there's no way that would fly in the American version, but still...

yeah basically XD if it were translated properly it would be something like PALKIA YOU FUCKIN' IDIOT!! or PALKIA YOU ASSHOLE!!! it was パルキアのばか！！ but said with such force in this case cursing would be best (japanese doesn't have real "cursing" so you can improvise).

in the japanese "electric shock showdown" lt. surge shouts GOD-DAMN! in english. oh japan!!

 

[deluge]

We'll have over 600 competitively new Pokemon (old designs may have new abilities, moves and items available to them) when B&W is released they should be all in from the getgo.
It makes no sense to keep Pokemon banned in an irrelevant and unrelated metagame banned when B&W rolls around.
If you want to continue to play DPP until B&W gets sane, hopefully that option will be available in Shoddy2.

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

Haha, Lt. Surge is the best. I love Nintendo's idea of Americans.

e: But seriously, every generation adds more moves to more pokemon that do more damage and have more coverage .. It's going to get to the point where nothing can counter anything and every pokemon fulfills the exact. same. goddamn. role. Imagine if in Team Fortress, the gave the scout a gun that destroyed sentries, the Heavy a helmet that stopped headshots, the Medic a gun that rivaled the primaries of everyone else, the Demo a hitscan, the Pyro a hitscan with no damage falloff, the Spy more health, etc. etc.

 

[respiration]

This thread is spam-tastical.

Anyways, I agree with the idea of putting all the formev suspects into the B&W meta when it comes out to see how it fares. We don't know if a bunch of new pokes that come out will wall and/or outclass Mence for example, which will lower his effectiveness. Banning them from B&W right off the bat just because they wrecked in DPP doesn't sound like a good way to make a fair, more balanced metagame.

Look at Heracross for example. He absolutely wrecked in ADV. But now in DPP he has some niches in OU, but for the most part, he's rarely used anymore. We don't know all the new gen pokemon's uses yet (hell, we don't even know all the new pokemon), so we should allow the former suspects to be used in the B&W meta when the games come out.

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

This thread is spam-tastical.

Anyways, I agree with the idea of putting all the formev suspects into the B&W meta when it comes out to see how it fares. We don't know if a bunch of new pokes that come out will wall and/or outclass Mence for example, which will lower his effectiveness. Banning them from B&W right off the bat just because they wrecked in DPP doesn't sound like a good way to make a fair, more balanced metagame.

Look at Heracross for example. He absolutely wrecked in ADV. But now in DPP he has some niches in OU, but for the most part, he's rarely used anymore. We don't know all the new gen pokemon's uses yet (hell, we don't even know all the new pokemon), so we should allow the former suspects to be used in the B&W meta when the games come out.

Wow, you are just so incredibly wrong that it's astounding.

Okay, if something outclasses Mence, that doesn't lower Mence's effectiveness, that just makes two broken pokemon instead of one. No one would say "Oh, we have Rayquaza so don't worry about Mence."

And then you compare Salamence to Heracross ... Heracross was strong and effective in ADV, but no one would ever call him broken. Salamence now is not only strong and effective, but also the most versatile sweeper, and possibly most versatile pokemon overall, in the metagame. It is impossible to switch in a pokemon, because if may use Draco Meteor, it may use Outrage, it may use Fire Blast, it may Dragon Dance, etc. etc.

Also Heracross is just as powerful and just as effective as he has ever been, if anything even moreso, as he now has a 100 percent accurate STAB with better coverage than Megahorn, while being used in the exact same way as he was in ADV.

 

[Lucalibur]

its actually pretty rare to find a pokemon that lost part of its effectiveness after gen 3 started, zam is the only example i can think right now, almost all pokemons so far won something new on they movesets. the only thing that stop hera from being top tier is that the metagame is filled with shit that rape his ass, dont mean he is any less effective then he used to be since he never lost anything(he actually just won new and useful stuff).

for example if i were to run specs Lucario like back in DP it would be the exactly same shit that it used to be. the pokemons i am facing are the ones that changed but specs Lucario work in the exactly same way with the exactly same moveset and stats. besides specific examples like zam who lost the elemental punchs no pokemon ever lost part of its effectiveness, its just that pokemons that stop him show up more often then before.

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

I just don't see any new pokemon being able to stand up to and earthquake, outrage, and fireblast while simultaneously stopping Salamence from dancing, in the same way that I don't see a pokemon being both faster than Garchomp and being able to land two Stab ice attacks on it before it OHKOs it.

 

[Ming-Ming]

its actually pretty rare to find a pokemon that lost part of its effectiveness after gen 3 started

Gengar, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Dragonite, Tentacruel, Machamp, Starmie, Aerodactyl, Zapdos, and Snorlax.

Seriously, how much arse did this thread get hit with the weeks I haven't looked at it in the slightest? Goodness.

In other news, Gochiruzeru and Shimama's the main things I looking out for in B/W. In general, though, I'm still gunning about the idea that GF is going to make a possum pokémon.

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

Gengar, Gyarados, Vaporeon, Dragonite, Tentacruel, Machamp, Starmie, Aerodactyl, Zapdos, and Snorlax.

Are you fucking high?


Dragonite and Gengar made significant gains until Platinum rolled around and either reversed them or spread them to other mans. Gengar's only net loss was no ice punch. It even got special Shadow Ball.

Aerodactyl did not lose anything and its movepool made some significant gains, especially stealth rock, as well as taunt being greatly improved.

Machamp? Seriously?

Tentacruel may have lost Sludge Bomb, but it gained Toxic Spikes and the ability to absord said spikes ...

Gyarados got fucking physical waterfall as well as the afore mentioned improved taunt

Snorlax didn't lose anything. Crunch replaced Shadow Ball, and all that affected it was special focus blast.

Zapdos didn't lose anything. It in fact gained a recovery move and a fire move. It just has a stealth rock weakness.

 

[vonFiedler]

Charizard :(

Pretty much any Pokemon hit SE by Stealth Rock, but damn, teetering BL/OU to NU?

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

Which brings me to my second point: fuck stealth rock.

 

[Ming-Ming]

Are you fucking high?

Perhaps you missed my sarcasm during your bout of typing in such a rude connotation. I meant there were things in Gen. I that were still viable. ... Unless you hold something against them, which, is your problem to deal with, anyway.

 

[Saif]

It's kind of weird that the green cell pokemon is a psychic type .________.
I mean it's kind of hard to believe but if he doesn't become part grass then thats just really weird!(I dont know how a Grass/Psychic with MagicGuard would do but w/e)It's either that not all of Corocoro details have been revealed or something was misread or its just total BS.

 

[Ming-Ming]

It's kind of weird that the green cell pokemon is a psychic type .________.
I mean it's kind of hard to believe but if he doesn't become part grass then thats just really weird!(I dont know how a Grass/Psychic with MagicGuard would do but w/e)It's either that not all of Corocoro details have been revealed or something was misread or its just total BS.

You're complaining about the same series that didn't give Espeon Power Gem, but gave it to Probopass, the same series that gives Dragon Dance to Crawdaunt and Whiscash, but not Flygon and Garchomp (rofl), and the same series that casted Luxray as vanilla Electric.

There's plenty of "weird" things in Pogeymanz, honestly. Just go with the flow 'n settle down with Game Freak's logic of not using logic.

 

[min min]

@ming-ming: Yay, a new challenger!
The green cell seems psychic...
Like a mutant amoeba.

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

Perhaps you missed my sarcasm during your bout of typing in such a rude connotation. I meant there were things in Gen. I that were still viable. ... Unless you hold something against them, which, is your problem to deal with, anyway.

In what backwards-ass way was I supposed to interpret that? "It's rare to see a pokemon that lost effectiveness" "several pokemon that didn't followed by a complaint about the thread"

Seriously, how blazed are you? Did you do some OG Master Machine Gun Whack-to-the-Bomb-Ass-Diggity Kush?

Also good job on assuming you're the one that keeps this thread in check, I guess.

 

[Ming-Ming]

@ming-ming: Yay, a new challenger!
The green cell seems psychic...
Like a mutant amoeba.

Eh, I was participating in the thread before, just was too lazy to bother posting for weeks on end. XP

Isn't Rankurusu made up of a pun of "Chaos" and "Homulculus"? In that sense, it would "make sense" for it to be Psychic, since it has to do with science, and science does have things to do with the mind. + It's pretty cool how it has a sort of "alchemy"-esque ability Magic Guard, which you could say contributes to its "pure nature", no? (Though thinking about it, it would also "make sense" for it to have Grass typing later on. If it doesn't, no skin off anyone's bones, right? ... Right?)

In what backwards-ass way was I supposed to interpret that? "It's rare to see a pokemon that lost effectiveness"

Unless I misread what Lucalibur meant, it appeared that he was against 'mons dating Gen. III. If I did misread, I do sincerely apologize (Half the time, I could barely make heads-or-tails with many of the things he posts.)

And yeeeah, I'm not answering the last part. No idea why you have such a tone, but eh, Internet drama's overrated, so I'll try to quit derailing this thread with it (Not that this thread has much to derail at this point, anyway, but I digress...)

 

[A.K. Swashbuckler]

Actually looking back I'm not sure what he said either. He says after Gen III started then says Alakazam lost ice punch so yeah. I appologize I guess.

But the thread owns so you're still wrong. (actually just the parts that have me in it. I'm awesome.)

 

[smexia]

I want a faster absol evo

 

[Saital]

(rofl, I kind of skipped a page before writing my other post, so I'll try this again.)

How is Mence doing, anyway? I've rather fallen out of the loop with regards to his standing in OU vs. Ubers.

But yeah, I agree that we shouldn't just toss everyone into the BW meta for some big bukkake of brokenness. Leave the tiers the way they are when BW comes out. See how OU fares with the dozen or so extra Pokémon that Gen5 introduces by itself and let things pan out for a bit. Then we can start throwing in the old suspects to see how they size up to the newcomers.

Anyway, talking about Triple Battles, do we have the foggiest idea what mechanics they might introduce with them? The scans say that positioning/team lineup will matter in determining how multitarget moves work. Maybe, as an example, Rock Slide can only hit two adjacent targets. So if you happen to have two Pokes weak to Rock out at the same time, put them each on sides and send out someone resistant to Rock in the middle, and then you will reduce the effectiveness of the Rock Slide.

And also, what about having triple leads? Getting down all three layers of spikes down on turn 1?

 

[DiamondMaster]

And also, what about having triple leads? Getting down all three layers of spikes down on turn 1?

Which results in you wastin 3 moveslots for Spikes? I'd rather have a Spikerm a Toxic Spiker and a Stealth rocker on the field at turn one.

Do we even know how much switching will occur? Things die incredibly fast, and with 3 pokemon, coverage is not an issue. I think the 3v3 might be more offensive than Little cup :S!!

 

[sunyshore.com]

Isn't Rankurusu made up of a pun of "Chaos" and "Homulculus"? In that sense, it would "make sense" for it to be Psychic, since it has to do with science, and science does have things to do with the mind. + It's pretty cool how it has a sort of "alchemy"-esque ability Magic Guard, which you could say contributes to its "pure nature", no? (Though thinking about it, it would also "make sense" for it to have Grass typing later on. If it doesn't, no skin off anyone's bones, right? ... Right?)

ran could be so much... 乱す　（みだす、midasu, first kanji is "ran" by itself) kind of means throwing things into disarray. which kind of makes sense if the kurusu really is supposed to be from homunculus.

it could also be 卵, "ran", or "tamago", egg. which could also make a lot of sense, right?...cuz, cuz it looks like an egg? :D interestingly enough 卵子　(ranshi) means embryo.

so, you decide! since how the hell can we really know without kanji in their names. the truth most people who don't study japanese don't know is, without kanji, almost every pokemon name "meaning" is just a best guess :P not a fact.

 

[Lucalibur]

Actually looking back I'm not sure what he said either. He says after Gen III started then says Alakazam lost ice punch so yeah. I appologize I guess.

But the thread owns so you're still wrong. (actually just the parts that have me in it. I'm awesome.)

after gen 2 pokemons changed a lot, all movepools changed, move tutors and a lot of shit. on gen 4 zam lost ice punch(Cant use because it became physical, together with the other 2), i was trying to say that on gen 3, 4 and maybe 5 there was almost no pokemons that lost anything, its just the metagame that fucked them up.

sorry i was not specific on that post, i should have said gen 3 and further instead of after gen 3 started but my point is that besides specific examples like zam(Who is the best example IMO) no pokemon lost any useful moves gen 3 and beyond, abilitys(not even possible) or anything of the sort. they all won something, its just the current metagame that make then look worst then they are.

zapdos for example is weak to SR but that dont make him any worst then he actually is, its just that the metagame is filled with SR. on the other hand he won a recovery move, a powerful fire type special move and shit like u-turn that all add to his movepool and this will continue on gen 5 with new moves, a pokemon can show up and counter zapdos but this dont mean zapdos become a worst pokemon, it mean another pokemon beat zapdos for a reason or another. Lucario is another example being a pokemon with great movepool, typing and somewhat useful abilitys, only because gliscor counter the most common Lucario set doesnt mean Lucario lose any effectiveness. he continue to be the same old jackal with great movepool and typing.

 

[mattj]

Which results in you wastin 3 moveslots for Spikes? I'd rather have a Spikerm a Toxic Spiker and a Stealth rocker on the field at turn one.

Do we even know how much switching will occur? Things die incredibly fast, and with 3 pokemon, coverage is not an issue. I think the 3v3 might be more offensive than Little cup :S!!

No competitive doubles player on earth uses any "switch field attack" like toxic spikes or stealth rocks. It simply is not worth it in doubles. A lot of times, I don't switch my pokemon at all (never lose my leads). Or I only bring in my backups if they die.

Switching your pokemon in doubles carries an enormous risk because you're wasting an attacking turn, while your opponent can easily gang up on you and 2HKO one or the other of your leads. It's just not worth it like it is in singles.

Triples would be even less switching.

 

[un?lucky]

Personally I don't see why anyone would be against merging all the pokes for the new gen and sorting them out from scratch. If they were deemed to powerful they would simply get banned and we would be left with the maximum number of pokes available. Sure this may take some time but it is a new gen after all and even stabilizing OU would take months with new pokes being introduced so why not include the current ubers and do it all at once. We saw how successful this was for the UU metagame, which I think is much better off now than with a ban list equal in size to the actual tier, made by theorymoned pokes that consisted of things like pinsir sceptile and regice.

Things that are uber now are only uber because of the DP metagame, there is absolutely no way to tell subjectively if they will be uber in a black and white metagame unless we test it out because the same factors will not be present. We can see this all too well with pokes that were OU in advanced like sceptile, regice and milotic becoming unfeasible with a different environment in place.

And I think it's too soon to start thinking this metagame will be all out offense, don't forget new defensive pokes will be introduced as well, who knows we might get a steel water with levitate that will be the perfect counter to mence, or ice version of stealth rocks...the possibilities are endless. Point is, I think its worth the extra time to merge the tiers and sort them out from scratch to make sure they are right then to head straight in with a ban list made from theorymon because chances are we'd make the same mistakes of the old UU