CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 2 - Main Typing Poll 2

[Fuzznip]

This is the final main typing poll. We will find out what Togekiss's Perfect Mate's main type will be at the end. Think hard about your decision. Remember to follow this rule if you're posting:

• We will not allow posts such as "I voted typing." Put some substance into your post.

Name: Perfect Mate

General Description: Pick a good-but-not-great OU pokemon, and design the perfect teammate for it, similar to the way Celebi & Heatran, or Blissey & Skarmory complement each other so well on competitive teams.

Justification:
This would allow us to explore in detail how synergy between two pokemon can be achieved, because currently there are only a few perfect teammates in OU. And depending on the base pokemon we choose to give a "perfect mate", we can open a new niche in the metagame based around the efficient pairing.
The niche we create will be inherently tied to an existing pokemon in the metagame, which should provide a natural limitation to prevent this concept from being broken or "too different" from standard OU.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is the base pokemon's usefulness (and usage) in the metagame increased as a result of having a "perfect mate"?
• What strategies are more effective for the base pokemon, as a result of having a perfect teammate?
• What are the most effective aspects of the new pokemon, for purposes of making a great teammate with the base pokemon?
• Is the new pokemon viable in the metagame without the base pokemon as a teammate

Poll will close tomorrow.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

Voted Fighting.

As I said earlier, we don't want to create a pokemon that can perfectly absorb status and counter Rotom-A, Gengar, Zapdos, Starmie, Metagross, Jirachi, Stone Edge users and their brothers. Sure, it would be Togekiss' perfect partner, but also Gyarados' perfect partner and, in short, a great pokemon on its own. Wait, didn't we already create such a pokemon ? Yes, it's called Colossoil , would be great with Togekiss but is used with Gyarados, because the latter is better.

No, a Ground CAP would be different from Colossoil, but it would share its caracteristics that make it both a great Gyarados and Togekiss partner : Electric immunity and ability to beat Togekiss and Gyarados' shared counters.


To understand why Fighting is a good choice, you need to look at what set Togekiss apart from other flying types : Flying STAB, and especially it's versatility, supportive presence and potential to sweep through Blissey, Snorlax and TTar ("potential" because Togekiss does care about TTar and Blissey).

Of all types, Fighting might be the one with the most potential for such caracteristics, and happens to resist Togekiss' most important weakness. Just look at Machamp's defensive stats : 90/80/85, only decent. It only seems so bulky because Fighting has virtually no weakness and good resistances. Now, why is its SleepTalking set so effective ? Not only because of Dynamic punch, but also because Fighting only needs one coverage move to hit everything neutrally and most of its resists SE. It means that a Fighting type can easily use support moves easily without sacrificing neutral coverage.

Now, let's go back to Togekiss' uniqueness : it's so versatile, has perfect coverage in its wide movepool and could even run Shadow Ball to beat Ghosts, but it suffers from moveslot syndrome and can't afford to use any coverage move bar... Aura Sphere on offensive sets. By overlapping Togekiss and CAP11's movepools, we can cure this crippling moveslot syndrome : supportive Togekiss will no longer suffer from having only Air Slash, as CAP11 takes care of coverage. Offensive Togekiss can let CAP11 spread paralysis and Shadow Ball Ghosts or Close Combat special walls. Nasty Passing can finally find a good recipient with perfect coverage.

For example, NP togekiss would like a set such as Slack Off/Safeguard/Heal Bell + Close Combat + Shadow Ball/Ice Beam + TWave.

An expert belt bait set with Close Combat/Aura Sphere + Shadow Ball + Ice Beam + TWave could lure and kill Rotom-A, Zapdos and Blissey.

Aura Sphere + Ice Beam + Shadow Ball + 101HP Substitute could make a nasty receiver (+2 STAB Aura Sphere + 101 HP Sub beats every blissey). These are just early examples, as secondary tying, ability and movepools could allow many creative options.


In short : Fighting leaves no weakness, especially not ice, free support moveslots and help Togekiss against Blissey and ScarfTar.
Ground's Ice weakness is really bad, we would have to either waste a secondary typing or ability just to cover it (ice-resisting types have no defensive or offensive synergy with Togekiss that ground doesn't already have)

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

I didn't say anything in the last poll, but now... why ground? we'll be picking our secondary typing to cover up that ice weakness... I personally thought steel was the best way to go about this. But Now that it between fighting and ground, fighting is the obvious choice. This new 'mon should not be weak to any of togekiss' weakness, nor should togekiss be weak to any of this mon's. Shared weaknesses destroys the synergy.

 

[firecape]

Ok first of all I’m voting for Ground over Fighting for several reasons. I think Ground is better suited to helping Togekiss over Fighting for several reasons. First of all, Ground resists 2/3 of Togekiss’s weaknesses right off the bat, and even though it is weak to Ice, only 3 Pokemon in OU commonly use Ice Beam in offensive sets. Empoleon, Suicune, Starmie (Tyranitar maybe, but it can just hit Togekiss with Stone Edge) are the 3, all other bulky waters Togekiss laughs at. The most powerful of the 3, LO Starmie, does 53.5% - 63.1% to 252/0 Togekiss. This means Togekiss can simply T-wave Starmie and Roost to remove the weakness. Therefore, Ice Beam users aren’t really a problem to Togekiss to begin with. Also, the whole Ice problem can easily be dealt with by good secondary typing. Ground also has the bonus of luring Grass attacks and Surfs from Bulky Waters, which Togekiss would be happy to take advantage of.
In comparison to fighting, I think most people are confusing the raw power of Fighting attacks to actually helping Togekiss. Togekiss already has Aura Sphere, which allows it to deal with most of the threats that a Fighting CAP would help with, with the exception of Tyranitar and Blissey, which a STAB Earthquake does just fine with. In addition fighting only resists Rock, doing nothing to Pokemon such as Jolteon who can rain down Specs Thunderbolts on both all day if Fighting typing is chosen. In addition, I don’t see how saying how Zapdos/Rotom laugh at Ground is a good argument either, because what can Fighting do to them? Also there is argument that making it Ground would simply help other flyers to much, but how(I know some of these aren’t really viable examples but Im just going to include all OU Flying types for arguments sake):

Hide

Aerodactyl: Hardly ever seen outside of a lead, but pairing it up with Ground would be terrible anyways due to Water attacks.

Dragonite: Dragonite is neutral to Electric, so it attracts Ice, which in this Duo is what Togekiss is supposed to take, and CAP11 probably won’t like. Also Rock is very rarely used to deal with Dragonite.

Gliscor: Gliscor is part Ground so it really doesn’t need another Ground to back it up.

Gyarados: What are counters for Gyarados? Suicune, Vaporeon, Celebi,
Porygon2. I don’t care that itcan switch into Hp Electric, it gets destroyed by Water/ Ice Beam. Also, it can’t switch into Celebi at all. I don’t think the ability to switch into Electric attacks is a good argument because then by that argument every other Ground type can do the same.

Ninjask: No.

Salamence: Same as Dragonite really, no one really trys to kill Mence with Electric or Rock attacks.

Skarmory: Skarmory also easily falls to Water/Fire attacks , and while Cap11 will be able to handle some Fire types, it can’t deal with Water really.

Zapdos: Its neutral to Electric attacks so it doesn’t really mind them. Ice and Rock are the only types its weak too, but that being said CAP11 would be weak to Ice so I’ll discount that. Rock attacks CAP11 could take, but honestly, if it helps out Zapdos a bit who cares, Zapdos is a very underused Pokemon as it is so it probably won’t see a huge spike in usage anyways, and it’s inevitable some Pokemon along the line will be able to abuse CAP11 to its advantage.

In conclusion I think Ground is a great primary typing for CAP11 because it offers great offensive synergy (every single thing hit NVE by Flying is hit SE by Ground, and Vice Versa, except for the immunity factor) and also fairly decent defensive synergy. Another often overlooked fact is that if CAP11 is Fighting it will Ironically be pretty easily taken down by an opposing Togekiss with higher Speed/enough defense to take a Fighting Attack. There is not really much Togekiss can do to itself either, meaning it turns into a flinch war. In addition, the problem of Rotom could easily be dealt with by giving CAP11 Mold Breaker and still have Rapid Spin be an option, where that would be out of the question with Scrappy. I implore you not to pick Fighting simply for Rock resist (which Ground has…) and raw power.

 

[capefeather]

Voted Ground again. These assessments from the previous polls were particularly condemning for me and I have to agree with them:

Togekiss needs help with Rotom-A and Zapdos. Think about what you're doing when you vote for Fighting as the primary typing. You are giving CAP11 a type that helps with none of Togekiss's offensive problems. On top of this, Togekiss already has Aura Sphere to punch through things like Tyranitar (and Blissey at +2/4). Fighting is completely redundant offensive coverage with Togekiss! Please, for the love of all that is good in CAP, don't vote for Fighting. I wouldn't be emphasizing it so seriously if it weren't so important. Literally, it's so mind-numbingly critical to this CAP's success that I cannot believe Fighting is seeing as many votes as it is. I don't even care what you vote for, as long as it's not Fighting. Everything else helps CAP11 way more than Fighting can ever hope to.

(Addendum: The problem that Togekiss has with Rotom-A and Zapdos isn't just "ZOMG THUNDERBOLT". Both are faster than Togekiss. This means that Zapdos in particular is pretty safe in attempting to aim the appropriate attack at a possible CAP 11 switch-in. A neutral STAB Thunderbolt is stronger than a super-effective Hidden Power.)

I cannot begin to emphasis strongly enough how correct Rising_Dusk is on this point. Fighting is almost entirely useless as a partner type for Togekiss. The Rock resist is literally the only positive quality connecting it to Togekiss, and it is a quality shared by Ground. In fact, Ground helps this CAP protect Togekiss from Jolteon, too, and Fighting can only dream of that.

I can see Fighting working, and sure the above two do as well, but ultimately I think that Fighting is simply inferior. The arguments for Fighting seem to hinge around not helping other Flying types or some really misguided crap that seems to assume CAP 11 will be pure Ground. To address the latter, we CAN patch the Ice weakness up if it's that bad, and in the end we'll still have achieved 2/3 of Togekiss's weaknesses covered rather than just 1/3.

The former I think is being a little blown out of proportion. Please, if you're going to argue for Fighting, tell us why Fighting is better than Ground. Ground helping different Pokémon is a concern, but it's ultimately not relevant to this. Are you willing to give CAP 11 a potentially inferior primary typing just so we don't get Colossoil Lite or Gyarados Partner #3?


Additional note: About Aura Sphere not OHKOing Tyranitar, it's worth noting that Tyranitar has no recovery and is still 2HKOed, so if CAP 11 can cause it to consider switching then I'd say that that's enough. If it's Scarfed, well, that's why you have prediction, right?

 

[jc104]

I thought I should make this clear. Nowhere in the concept does it say that CAP 11 should be viable on unviable in OU without Togekiss, and nor does it say that CAP 11 should not support Gyarados as well as it supports Togekiss. It could well turn out that the Perfect Mate to Togekiss is better used with Gyarados, certainly if Gyarados is simply better than Togekiss. As for arguments regarding Colossoil: this should really have been brought up when Togekiss was chosen, not when deciding a typing. Colossoil has no impact on what is or isn't a perfect mate to Togekiss, and should be ignored anyway since CAPs are designed based on the OU metagame.

Purely in terms of what best supports Togekiss, I find Ground to be the superior option. I balances a weakness to one of Togekiss' weaknesses for an immunity to another. The weakness can be covered by secondary typing or even by ability (with both it can become a resistance!), and it should be remembered that strong STAB ice attacks are highly rare in the OU metagame, and Togekiss actually does a decent job of taking the rest. The only typing that can cover all of Togekiss' weaknesses is Steel/Electric, which is now out of the question. Ground typing provides an immunity to thunder wave as well, which is crucial given then flinching strategy that Togekiss employs.

Offensively, Ground is, like Fighting, seen as an excellent type, but it should be remembered that movepool and stats have a much greater bearing on offensive capability. Neither of these STABs are any good against Zapdos and Rotom-A, but at least Ground gives an immunity to their STAB allowing CAP 11 to take them on more comfortably.

So please vote Ground!

 

[Innocent Criminal]

In Gyarados' counters, you "forgot" Rotom-A, Gengar and Jolteon. That's enough for Gyarados to partner with Colossoil (rapid spin is rarely seen) despite their common weakness to celebi and bulky waters.

Are you willing to give CAP 11 a potentially inferior primary typing just so we don't get Colossoil Lite or Gyarados Partner #3?

Colossoil and Krilowatt failed because we were afraid they wouldn't make their jobs well enough, and we gave them, every time, the best tool to do their job. The thing is, the best tools to do any jobs are also the best tools to do more rewarding jobs, such as sweeping and rampaging. We shouldn't worry about making a bad pokemon but about making one so good that everyone uses it for another job that what we wanted.


Yes, Fighting is inferior for countering Togekiss' counters, and that's fine because it doesn't need to do so perfectly. However, a partnership can go beyond countering counters, and Fighting is superior on every other aspect.

To those saying Fighting doesn't bring anything "because Togekiss has Aura Sphere", don't forget that it also has Shadow Ball, and can beat Rotom with it.

Togekiss has everything it needs and could even beat Ghosts, Blissey and TTar, but suffers from moveslot syndrome. Thus, overlapping is a GOOD thing.

We need to free Togekiss from some of its contraints, by beating Blissey so it can support or by supporting so it can beat blissey. The same goes with everything Togekiss can do. The NP sweeper would like to also have Shadow Ball, Ice Beam and Twave, but it can't, so CAP should do it for him. Supporter sets would also love Aura Sphere but don't have room for it, so a Fighting partner would be welcome.

Colossoil has no impact on what is or isn't a perfect mate to Togekiss, and should be ignored anyway since CAPs are designed based on the OU metagame.

I'm not saying Ground is bad because we already have Colossoil, because it virtually doesn't exists. I'm saying it's bad because we demonstrated by experimentation that a Ground-type beating Rotom, Gengar and Jolteon is great for Gyarados even when it doesn't have anything else to offer (RS is rarely used) and shares its weakness to celebi and bulky waters.

I thought I should make this clear. Nowhere in the concept does it say that CAP 11 should be viable on unviable in OU without Togekiss, and nor does it say that CAP 11 should not support Gyarados as well as it supports Togekiss. It could well turn out that the Perfect Mate to Togekiss is better used with Gyarados, certainly if Gyarados is simply better than Togekiss.

According to this reasoning, Colossoil was a complete success just because it can rapdi spin and stop secondary damage, despite the fact that no one uses it to do that ? Then I have a great idea : let's just make a pokemon with 150 Base Stat everywhere, Multitype and learning every move in the game by level-up, and I'm pretty sure it could fulfill any past, present and futre CAP concept. Partner it with Togekiss and you are guaranteed to win.

 

[capefeather]

So you're picking Fighting because it's worse? I understand perfectly well the need to be precise with what we do, but in the end, we're talking about helping Togekiss, and if one type helps Togekiss better than another type does, it seems really odd to me for someone to decide that the other type is better.

Colossoil and Krilowatt had very general, vague concepts that didn't place any real limit to how powerful they could be (other than the obvious like no SD for Colossoil). With CAP 11, we have a very good way to keep the project choices precise. I know some have talked about later parts probably giving CAP 11 Recover or ballin' defensive stats or whatever, but if they're not needed then I will not support them. With this poll, though, there is a need to check Jolteon as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Raikaria]

Can people please stop saying 'Gyarados is better than Togekiss'.

Gyarados is a Water/Flying Physical Sweeper/Tank, with no reliable recovery.

Togekiss is a Normal/Flying Special Sweeper/Annoyer, with reliable recovery, and a completely different ability.

Togekiss and Gyarados are completely different beasts, so they cannot be compared. On the other hand, one could compare Jirachi and Togekiss, as they function in the same basic way. Gyarados is not 'better' than Togekiss, it is more popular, and fits better onto teams than Togekiss. That dosen't mean it's better.

Oh, and ANY Ground type is going to be paired with Gyarados. It covers Gyarados' weaknesses, and dosen't share any with Gyara. I bet Fidgit's used with Gyarados a awful lot too.

Now that that's out of the way, and people should stop using Collosoil+Gyarados as an excuse about the Ground type...


Personally, I think neither type will work for CAP11, so, for me, this is a lesser of two evils thing. On one side, there's already Machamp, and I don't see a Fighting-type get much better at stopping checks to Togekiss than Machamp smashing Blissey, Ghosts, and Tyranitar, as well as annoying everything else with D-Punch's Confusion.

Togekiss also already has Aura Sphere...

On the other hand, is the Ground type, which is almost non-existant in support, has horrible synergy with Togekiss besides the Rock resist [Bulky Waters with Ice Beam...], and will basically be limited to Earthquake on the offensive side from it's STAB...

Both types are also already common for CAP... both have 2 CAP's made for them already...


In the end, I'm voting for the Fighting-type. There's just more we can do with it, and the army of Bulky Waters out there is not a dead stop to the combo.

Just to re-iterate, I dislike both choices. But at least Fighting dosen't make thinks like Vaporeon walk all over Togekiss+CAP11.

[Wonders if half the Ground support is due to the sucess of Collosoil... who, ironically, I got the ball rolling for the Ground typing...]

 

[CobraJSF]

Steel was the best choice. Oh well.

Ground covers some of Togekiss' weaknesses. Fighting does not. Both are decent attacking types. Ground resists Rock, is immune to Electric and weak to Ice. Fighting resists Rock and is neutral to Ice/Electric. Ground has much better synergy with Togekiss than Fighting. Why Fighting is even still an option is beyond me.

Thank you for your time.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Voting Fighting, for the same reasons as last time. In case anyone missed it:

1) Fighting helps our partner switch in to Tyranitar, who greatly threatens Togekiss unless it runs Aura Sphere, which not every Togekiss does/should. Even with Aura Sphere a partner who can switch in to ScarfTar or CurseTar (who survives an Aura Sphere and KOs back) is valuable. Edit: After doing some calcs it turns out that any Tyranitar with some HP investment will survive Aura Sphere, so this is actually a major threat.

2) Fighting helps our partner quickly deal with Blissey, who walls NP Kiss without Aura Sphere.

3) Fighting has excellent offensive synergy with Flying. Together the STABs are resisted by...Rotom and Zapdos? And that's it. Since we're making an offensive combination this part is important.

4) Fighting plays very well with possible secondary typings. It has few readily exploitable weaknesses and a few important resistances already, meaning it's a very neutral and versatile type. We could pair it with all sorts of things, depending on the direction we ultimately decide to take this in. While Ground is also somewhat versatile, it is limited in this case by its weakness to Ice and Water, two fairly common offensive attacking types. Our secondary typing would need to cover that weakness if we want this to be successful, which would greatly limit our options.

First of all, Togekiss does not "deal easily" with Tyranitar switch-ins unless you run both Nasty Plot and Aura Sphere (unboosted aura sphere does not come close to killing it), and while those are good moves on Togekiss they're possibly not the best use of those slots depending on the user's team. It's like saying "Infernape doesn't have a problem with vaporeon because it can run run swords dance and close combat", and while this is true not every infernape runs those moves.
And this is discounting the popular ScarfTar, which wrecks Togekiss without a second thought.

More relevantly, those resistances matter because we don't have to base our secondary typing around not being pursuit/u-turn weak, which is definitely a big deal. That way if we decide to give this thing a Psychic secondary typing, which is easily a good idea, we won't have to worry about "crap this core loses to Pursuit". Note that Pursuit is one of the few weaknesses of CeleTran, so let's learn from that...having Togekiss' partner picked off by a quick Pursuit from Scizor or Tyranitar is not very cool.
As far as U-Turn goes, Togekiss has impressive defenses and resists U-Turn, but it definitely will not appreciate it from the likes of CB Scizor (an average of 35% to 4/0 Togekiss, which with SR means it's taking a whopping 60% damage for doing literally nothing).

Much more important is how Fighting's neutrality and key resistances compares to Ground's. Ground brings significant weaknesses to Water and Ice to the table, which means we nearly have to compensate for these with a secondary typing or end up with a pretty crappy core. It is immune to Electric, which is significant, but can't hit common Electric types (Rotom, Zapdos) with its primary STAB. It resists Rock and Bug, but so does Fighting. Flying/Ground have decent offensive synergy, but not nearly as good as Flying/Fighting.
But the most significant part is the easily exploitable weaknesses it brings to the table. Do you know why Machamp seems so damn bulky despite its fairly average defenses (90/80/85, marginally worse than Salamence's 95/80/80)? It's because Fighting's weaknesses are very uncommon attacking types in the metagame , compared to Ground's weaknesses. What this means is that we don't have to give this an inordinate amount of bulk just so it doesn't die immediately to Starmie or Vaporeon, and we don't have to focus our secondary typing on negating those weaknesses. We can instead focus on more offensive stats and more offense-oriented typing, which is fundamentally the point of this core.

I'd also like to once again express massive incredulity at Rising_Dusk's post being used to support a Ground nomination. He points out that Zapdos and Rotom-A give Togekiss trouble and would possibly give a Fighting-type partner trouble...but Rotom-A and Zapdos take less (0%, to be precise) from Ground STAB than they do from Fighting STAB. Additionally, they actually run moves to hit Ground-types SE (Hydro Pump/Leaf Storm, HP Grass). If your rationale for voting Ground is that it somehow helps Togekiss against those two, I strongly urge you to rethink your reasoning, because when the Pokemon you're supposed to be countering are immune to your STAB and hit you SE with their coverage options you have a problem.

 

[toshimelonhead]

I can't support Fighting here. People seem to forget that Zapdos and Rotom-A are the two pokemon that give Togekiss fits the most. And you want a type that does nothing to counter either one of these two? Shameful. Ground is also essential for absorbing Thunder Wave because once Togekiss is paralyzed, it's done.

I agree though, that both types are the greatest, but which ones would have been better? I honestly do not know.

 

[Lokon]

Originally Posted by Fat Rising_Dusk
Togekiss needs help with Rotom-A and Zapdos. Think about what you're doing when you vote for Fighting as the primary typing. You are giving CAP11 a type that helps with none of Togekiss's offensive problems. On top of this, Togekiss already has Aura Sphere to punch through things like Tyranitar (and Blissey at +2/4). Fighting is completely redundant offensive coverage with Togekiss! Please, for the love of all that is good in CAP, don't vote for Fighting. I wouldn't be emphasizing it so seriously if it weren't so important. Literally, it's so mind-numbingly critical to this CAP's success that I cannot believe Fighting is seeing as many votes as it is. I don't even care what you vote for, as long as it's not Fighting. Everything else helps CAP11 way more than Fighting can ever hope to.

Some good points, but ground shares a major weakness, ICE, with togekiss. Also, unless it uses rock type moves it still cant do anything to help togekiss against zapdos and rotoms exept soak up hits.

 

[reachzero]

As I said earlier, we don't want to create a pokemon that can perfectly absorb status and counter Rotom-A, Gengar, Zapdos, Starmie, Metagross, Jirachi, Stone Edge users and their brothers. Sure, it would be Togekiss' perfect partner, but also Gyarados' perfect partner and, in short, a great pokemon on its own. Wait, didn't we already create such a pokemon ? Yes, it's called Colossoil , would be great with Togekiss but is used with Gyarados, because the latter is better.

Gyarados isn't really that big an issue, there are any number of type combinations that would work as partners for Togekiss but not for Gyarados, mainly because Gyarados is stopped by Grass types (Celebi and Shaymin) and bulky waters (Suicune and Vaporeon) as well as by Rotom-a. Both Fighting and Ground have potential type combos that would work that way, so I don't really see how Gyarados is a big deal.

 

[smallvizier]

I shall re-quote our strategy article for Togekiss' most common set:

Togekiss can survive a Choice Banded Ice Shard from a max Attack Mamoswine even after Stealth Rock is down and OHKO back with a Nasty Plotted Aura Sphere.

Most Ice attacks in OU are non-STAB and Special. Even with STAB, even after Stealth Rock, Togekiss handles them just fine.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Togekiss does not "handle [ice attacks] just fine", please do some calcs before posting things like that.

Life Orb Starmie 2hkos even max HP Togekiss with Surf -> Ice Beam. CM Suicune 2hkos the same Togekiss with Ice Beam at +1 if defensive, and ohkos if offensive. Even Vaporeon with no special attack investment KOs with Surf -> Ice Beam. Again, this is all max HP Togekiss, a sweeping Togekiss does even poorer.

People are severely overestimating Togekiss's defensive capabilities, and if you vote Ground based on that you're going to feel a bit silly when any simple bulky water shuts down this core.

Anyway, I don't want to start threadhogging, so this will be my last post here. Please think about your vote. That's all.

 

[Innocent Criminal]

So you're picking Fighting because it's worse?

You can't take the first part of my sentence and ignore the rest.

Fighhting is worse typing-wise, on paper, and that's good because it also means it's worse with Gyarados. However, Fighting is better on every other aspect :

• Fighting actually does better against Rotom-A and Zapdos : Zapdos always run HP Grass/Ice to keep ground types at bay. Rotom-A may have Hydro Pump/Leaf Storm/HP Ice/Grass but doesn't have anything to 2HKO a bulky Fighting type. Fighting and Ground are both equally useless offensively.
• Fighting is a great defensive typing : Machamp only has decent 90/80/85 defenses, slightly worse than 'mence, but without Intimidate ! What makes it so bulky is its great typing : in this metagme, nothing can hit it super effectively, but it still has key resistances.
• Because it has no weakness, we can choose any secondary typing, including great defensive pairing like Fighting/Electric, better defensively than any ice-resisting ground combination.
• Ground fears Starmie, Zapdos and some Rotoms. They have nothing to hit Fighting SE.
• Fighting needs only one other move to obtain perfect coverage, including Ghost and Rock, that hits every Togekiss counter SE. While both typings are uselss offensively against Togekiss' counters, Fighting pairs the best with coverage moves that do.
• Because of that, it can use its two other remaining moves for support options. Togekiss suffers from moveslot syndrome, so it needs a partner that can afford using only two attacks.
• Redundancy with Aura Sphere is good Did you know Togekiss actually learns Shadow Ball? It just can't use it become of the moveslot syndrome. Just like support sets can't run Aura Sphere, which is why a Fighting partner is much needed.
• Togekiss can't beat status-inducing Blissey and ScarfTar by itself. Fighting is very helpful for that. Earth Power isn't enough to beat TTar, who can threaten with Aqua Tail or even worse, predict a switch, while Fighting walls any TTar.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

I want to throw out another point: Togekiss can cripple a lot of its counters and checks by Thunder Waving on the switch, namely Heatran, Rotom, Zapdos, and ScarfTar. However, Blissey is hardly crippled by Thunder Wave, considering a) Natural Cure and b) it does not rely on Speed. A Fighting-type partner would be ideal for removing this obstacle. Admittedly, Thunder Wave can be removed by RestTalk Rotom as well; however, Blissey is much more common than RestTalk Rotom in the current OU metagame and thus a larger problem, not to mention that a Ground-type is almost as equally likely to lose to RestTalk Rotom as a Fighting-type (Will-O-Wisp, immunity to both STAB).

 

[The Pokemon Pimp]

I voted Ground, because I still believe it can help Togekiss the most while giving both it and Togekiss good synergy. The thing that probably screws Togekiss over the most is Thunder Waves or Thunderbolts which are unfortunately seen a lot on teams. Quick example:

Your Togekiss KO's something or is switched in at the same time as your opponent's SpecsJolteon. Would you rather have the perfect mate (which pretty much implies a proclivity to switch in between the two Pokemon) die on the switch, get paralyzed instead of Togekiss, or keep Togekiss in to get OHKO'd (with Stealth Rock on bulkier ones)? Or would you rather have a free switch into a Ground-typed perfect mate that is at the ready to supply support to Togekiss or to attack on its own?

This argument between Ground and Fighting doesn't really make sense to me. What we are looking for is the primary typing for a perfect mate, and a Ground typing provides a nice immunity that Togekiss needs to function at its best. Going back to my example above, unless the Fighting type had great Special Defense or HP, Electric types going against Kiss and its mate will have a fun time, to say the least.

Yes, Ground shares an Ice weakness with Togekiss. But in my opinion, Ice Beam is the lesser of two evils when it comes to choosing. Hands down, Ground can benefit Togekiss in the most direct and easy way possible.

 

[Class]

Ground. Perfect offensive coverage with Togekiss's Flying. Lures Grass for Togekiss to come in on. Absorbs Electric. Resists Stealth Rock/Rock (though Fighting does this as well). Togekiss shrugs off UnSTABed Ice Beams. Jolteon and Rotom and Zapdos and more will have a hell of a fun time with Togekiss + Fighting.

Half the argument for Fighting is "Fighting hits Blissey SE!". What the hell Fighting type is Blissey staying in on?

 

[Aqueos]

Voted Fighting
Ground leaves this combo weak to bulky waters like flareblitz said. Also aura sphere isn't physical obviously, and as such won't hold blissey at bay. Though I admit that absorbing thunder wave is nice people forget about abilities, and the project itself. Also if this fighting type is bulky and slow (mach punch?) who cares about thunder wave. Though I am anticipating farther down the road then I probably should, typing for the sake of only absorbing electric attacks is just a waste of potential. Secondary typing abilities and other things can save this. Also for everyone with the ABSORB Electric attacks argument, what happens when they send in Jolteon, thunderbolt, you switch the attack gets absorbed, and then jolteon simply hp ices you to kingdom come? Also for Blissey will switch, won't electric types? Also for Togekiss shrugs of ice beams, how about you go look at flareblitz's calcs for a moment?

 

[EdgeHead]

I voted Ground, because I still believe it can help Togekiss the most while giving both it and Togekiss good synergy. The thing that probably screws Togekiss over the most is Thunder Waves or Thunderbolts which are unfortunately seen a lot on teams. Quick example:

Your Togekiss KO's something or is switched in at the same time as your opponent's SpecsJolteon. Would you rather have the perfect mate (which pretty much implies a proclivity to switch in between the two Pokemon) die on the switch, get paralyzed instead of Togekiss, or keep Togekiss in to get OHKO'd (with Stealth Rock on bulkier ones)? Or would you rather have a free switch into a Ground-typed perfect mate that is at the ready to supply support to Togekiss or to attack on its own?

This argument between Ground and Fighting doesn't really make sense to me. What we are looking for is the primary typing for a perfect mate, and a Ground typing provides a nice immunity that Togekiss needs to function at its best. Going back to my example above, unless the Fighting type had great Special Defense or HP, Electric types going against Kiss and its mate will have a fun time, to say the least.

Yes, Ground shares an Ice weakness with Togekiss. But in my opinion, Ice Beam is the lesser of two evils when it comes to choosing. Hands down, Ground can benefit Togekiss in the most direct and easy way possible.

And what about Vaporeon, Swampert, Suicune and Starmie? It the CAP has ways of dealing with Rotom-A and Zapdos, who Ground doesn't deal with a whole lot better, then I think a weakness to Jolteon is far less crippling then a weakenss to the bulky waters of the OU metagame.

 

[Sachetorte]

The Fighting-Type is more of a clean slate option here; It doesn't share the same weaknesses with Togekiss, it just gets the current job done, and that's resisting Stealth Rocks. Being immune to Thunder Wave won't be important if it's already slow, and opening up common weaknesses will only make our combination fail. It's a sacrifice that's not worth it.

 

[Elgoo]

I really dislike both choices here. But I picked ground (even though steel is soo much better, haha) because it covers more weaknesses. People, please stop using rotom a as a reason to pick a type, it has levitate, and isnt effected by EITHER TYPE. Gawsh. I also picked ground because I expect the ice weakness to be covered by the secondary typing and or ability (solid rock anyone?). I Just see ground as having better synergy than fighting.

 

[Aqueos]

Expecting secondary typing to cover a weakness is bad justification. Ground is weak to many attacks rotom carries which is why it is worse than fighting at this. For everyone saying steel was better, it is weak to fighting attacks togekiss can't handle, not to mention this is a bit late to bring it up nuff said.