Haxorus

Sparko said:
core of shandera/ onu/ mole pokemon anyone? offense is lookin' strong... (yeah sorry I don't know these pokes' real names :/)

there's also that dark/dragon pokemon I'd be willing to use... resists all of rotom's moves, has pursuit, doesn't really fear wow if specially based... dang
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I like the sound of that core actually. Probably wouln't be half bad, even if Doryuzuu wasn't in a sandstorm.

Sazando can infact handle some of Ono's steel type switchin's, and doesn't fear rotom's special attacks do to have a nice natural SpD, but needs to be scarfed to outside a scarfed rotom. The ghost types are checked by it, and wont plague Ono possibly, while Ono can deal with rotom as long as it has one DD going. Sazando can do some amazing things with it's mixed set as well, allowing it to hit skarmory for 96% even at a -2 after Draco Meteor. That screams Natto counter to me as well, and it wont like it.

Possible natto strat:
1. Ono taunts natto.
2. Either Natto gets caught in the taunt trying to setup hazards or Gyro's.
3. Switch to Sazando for Natto counter( hopefully gyro doesn't hit as hard)
4. Sazando pops FB for kill or they switch Natto out of combat because of fear of losing it.

Edit- Also, towards the chomp comments. It is a check to all Ono's, and doesn't need to be discussed. The only way Ono beats out chomp is after two DD's. And why mention D-nite? Other then a large as hell movepool, that thing isn't scaring Ono, Mence, or Chomp away, let alone any other dragon. It's mixed set? maybe, but D-Nite is in an entirely different league then Ono, Mence, or Chomp, and shouldn't be compared to them, as Ono shouldn't be compared to Mence, chomp, or any other dragon.
 
Why would Natto try to set up entry hazards??!! Gyro Ball is going to hurt pretty much anything, and the things that do resist Gyro Ball (Electric, Fire, Steel, Water) are either walled by Natto and become set up bait (most Electrics, Steels, and Waters) or are frail and fast (Infernape). The exception is of course Heatran.

Btw, Dragonite isn't Ononokusu, so that's off-topic in the first place. We still don't know what his dream world ability does so don't dismiss him either way ._.
 
blasphemy1 said:
Why would Natto try to set up entry hazards??!! Gyro Ball is going to hurt pretty much anything, and the things that do resist Gyro Ball (Electric, Fire, Steel, Water) are either walled by Natto and become set up bait (most Electrics, Steels, and Waters) or are frail and fast (Infernape). The exception is of course Heatran.

Btw, Dragonite isn't Ononokusu, so that's off-topic in the first place. We still don't know what his dream world ability does so don't dismiss him either way ._.
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You forget there are idiots in the world blasphemy. And sometimes, mistakes happen. It was just a small outcome listing is all. We already understand that Gyro ball hurts, and we aren't bumping it for it either. We're simply trying to find a reliable way of dealing with it, which as you pointed out, Heatran sounds excellent(considering most steel dragon dues are amazing anyway). And it wont be able setting up anything if it takes a Taunt from Ono, even if we do have to take the huge damage to only swap to our counter, ala Heatran as you mentioned, to scare it off.
 
Anyway, I like Choice Band set best.

DD and SD have issues that make them slightly worse versions of Salamence and Garchomp. Scarf is okay, but that sub-100 speed still sucks compared to faster scarfers.

CB is best IMO. Without a SR weakness, just get in and spam Dragon Claw or Outrage later on.
 
I'm wondering why this guy doesn't get Dragon Rush in his egg moves. I could see him running a Claw Sharpen set with DRush and Stone Edge... except it doesn't look like he gets that, either. This almost makes me believe that GF might actually know what they're doing. And does anyone know how much Claw Sharpen would boost Guillotine's accuracy to? I can see that getting really, really annoying on those random Wi-Fi battles
 
AxelLow said:
I like the sound of that core actually. Probably wouln't be half bad, even if Doryuzuu wasn't in a sandstorm.

Sazando can infact handle some of Ono's steel type switchin's, and doesn't fear rotom's special attacks do to have a nice natural SpD, but needs to be scarfed to outside a scarfed rotom. The ghost types are checked by it, and wont plague Ono possibly, while Ono can deal with rotom as long as it has one DD going. Sazando can do some amazing things with it's mixed set as well, allowing it to hit skarmory for 96% even at a -2 after Draco Meteor. That screams Natto counter to me as well, and it wont like it.

Possible natto strat:
1. Ono taunts natto.
2. Either Natto gets caught in the taunt trying to setup hazards or Gyro's.
3. Switch to Sazando for Natto counter( hopefully gyro doesn't hit as hard)
4. Sazando pops FB for kill or they switch Natto out of combat because of fear of losing it.

Edit- Also, towards the chomp comments. It is a check to all Ono's, and doesn't need to be discussed. The only way Ono beats out chomp is after two DD's. And why mention D-nite? Other then a large as hell movepool, that thing isn't scaring Ono, Mence, or Chomp away, let alone any other dragon. It's mixed set? maybe, but D-Nite is in an entirely different league then Ono, Mence, or Chomp, and shouldn't be compared to them, as Ono shouldn't be compared to Mence, chomp, or any other dragon.
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sounds like a decent strat, I especially like those calcs regarding sazandu hitting skarm with DM and FB on the switch, it seems like Ono/Sazando can really synchronise well together in terms of wall breaking. With all the ghosts around, spamming LO/Specs dark moves with sazando might be a good way to go... they send out a steel type to wall them, you FB the natto to oblivion. Of course as always, should you be using a specs sazandu prediciton plays a big role, but with those great attacking stats, you're bound to put some holes into the opposing team. The question would be whether Ono should be Banded or be used as a taunt variant, both can damage stall teams but I guess only time will tell which will prove to be more effective...
 
Dragon Tail is - Priority so it shouldn't be used on a set that takes advantage of speed. Onokusu looks like a great pokemon with fantastic Attack, good movepool and decent typing. However, the typing is probably its only issue (other than bulk). With pure Dragon typing, it misses out on a secondary STAB which could prove very useful (Garchomp/Kingdra). However, this way it lacks the horrible 4x Ice weakness that plagues most other dragon types.
Edit: 2 pages just appeared while i was making this ¬_¬ If anything i said has already been said, sorry.
 
Lol, 97 is a very troll amount of speed, it basically means that you lose all speed ties to the base 100 tier. One of the things that worked in Garch's favor was his equally trollish base 102 speed.

I'm not sure this think is all that it's cracked up to be. Mediocre defenses, no immunities, and vulnerability to Spikes/Toxic Spikes make it difficult to set up. I mean, the problem is that SD 3-attack and DD-3 attack sets are easy to revenge and probably won't be sweeping any time soon (Garchomp wasn't easy to revenge due to Sand Veil and Yache Berry, and Salamence was very hard to outspeed after a DD). The main problems I see are the Choice Band set, which will wreck entire teams with good prediction, and the SD/Taunt set, which will probably be a potent wallbreaker if you can get it in before Forry puts up a layer of Toxic Spikes.
 
Well, after doing more thinking, I've came to these conclusions:

Swords Dance Onono: Is not the set to be using. Sure, it hits like a truck, with without the speed boost SD grants, you may as well have just attacked twice, and then be KO'ed. Twice as much chance for a crit :/

Dragon Dance Onono: This is certainly one of Onono's superior sets. However, it has several varients.

Dragon Dance Wall Breaker: Carries Taunt, Outrage, EQ, DD, and Mold Breaker. Also may use Adamant for extra punch. A likly item is Life Orb, or maybe Lum Berry.

Dragon Dance Sweeper: Carries Outrage, EQ, DD, and a filler, coverage move. Jolly Nature, so that Scarfed Base 100's [And Scarfchomp] need Jolly to outspeed after a DD. Likly items are Life Orb to make up for loss of Adamant's power, Muscle Band to help feign a choiced set, and Haban Berry. Remember YacheChomp? Well, the Ice Beams Onono may take are gonna be weaker than the Dragon-type moves, die to lower Base Power, and general lack of Ice-types in OU. If Garchomp can take Ice Beams with Yache, Onono can take Outrages with Haban.

Due to having 3 attacking moves, it's free to run Rivalry for extra attacking power.

Choice Scarf: Still the superior set for me. Carries 4 attacking moves. Likly to have Rivalry, although Mold Breaker is also useful. Like Scarfchomp, but hits a LOT harder. Excellent late-game cleaner with Outrage.

Choice Band: Basically inferior to Scarf + Rivalry if it lacks Rivalry itself. Hit like a truck from the get-go, anything switching in is going to be dented. Best used with Paralysis support.



For me, the two domient sets will be:

Ononokusu @ Choice Scarf
Adamant/Jolly Nature
Rivalry
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP

-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Night Slash [Dark > Ghost]
- Any Move

Ononokusu @ Haban Berry
Jolly Nature
Rivalry
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4HP

-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Night Slash
-Earthquake

Good luck dealing with Onono when the only way to check it is priority, unless you're packing something like Scarfed Froslass. Because after a DD, Jolly Onono outspeeds anything else that's unboosted. And hits like a truck. Haban Berry is a big middle finger salute to ScarfChomp/Gon.

And ideally, Priority should be gone by the time you reveal Onono, it's a late-game pokemon, like SD Lucario.



Now, there may be overhype, I accept that, but people are also underestimateing Onono, he's not the one-trick pony Rampardos is. He can actually take a hit, and outspeed things. He's gonna have his own niche, that's for sure, and IMO, Scarf Onono> ScarfChomp, and DD Onono >>> DD Mance
 
Sparko said:
sounds like a decent strat, I especially like those calcs regarding sazandu hitting skarm with DM and FB on the switch, it seems like Ono/Sazando can really synchronise well together in terms of wall breaking. With all the ghosts around, spamming LO/Specs dark moves with sazando might be a good way to go... they send out a steel type to wall them, you FB the natto to oblivion. Of course as always, should you be using a specs sazandu prediciton plays a big role, but with those great attacking stats, you're bound to put some holes into the opposing team. The question would be whether Ono should be Banded or be used as a taunt variant, both can damage stall teams but I guess only time will tell which will prove to be more effective...
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IMO Sazando, Ono, and Tran sound especially good together. Sazando would be able to run a choice specs set, while Ono can run it's Taunt, and Tran can probably run anything it feels (I personally run the sub set). They all seem to cover each others disadvantages well, and can possibly make up a similar compound as to what Mence/Latias/tran was.

Sazando's choice spec by itself will indeed place major holes an opposite team. In combination with Tran, and even a Shanderra w/ shadow tag, they could probably handle most, if not a majority of his problems.

IMO, the Taunt varients seem great to me and are my personal favorites so far. They dont fear many pokemon that'll attempt to wall, and setup on it. They can also get two possible DD's almost immediately if played correct. After 2 DD's, that already potent attack stat becomes massive, K.O'ing anything.

The CB set gains that 2 DD strength just mentioned instantaneously, and a large enough moveset to place dents or let alone revenge alot of things. IMO, this has more immediate scare tactics compared to the DD's "Growing Strength" scare tactics, and can make for some serious reprocussions.

All in all, this pokemon will be amazing. With the right partners around it as well, it can function in various setups.
 
AxelLow said:
IMO Sazando, Ono, and Tran sound especially good together. Sazando would be able to run a choice specs set, while Ono can run it's Taunt, and Tran can probably run anything it feels (I personally run the sub set). They all seem to cover each others disadvantages well, and can possibly make up a similar compound as to what Mence/Latias/tran was.

Sazando's choice spec by itself will indeed place major holes an opposite team. In combination with Tran, and even a Shanderra w/ shadow tag, they could probably handle most, if not a majority of his problems.

IMO, the Taunt varients seem great to me and are my personal favorites so far. They dont fear many pokemon that'll attempt to wall, and setup on it. They can also get two possible DD's almost immediately if played correct. After 2 DD's, that already potent attack stat becomes massive, K.O'ing anything.

The CB set gains that 2 DD strength just mentioned instantaneously, and a large enough moveset to place dents or let alone revenge alot of things. IMO, this has more immediate scare tactics compared to the DD's "Growing Strength" scare tactics, and can make for some serious reprocussions.

All in all, this pokemon will be amazing. With the right partners around it as well, it can function in various setups.
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lol ironically I was just comparing the core of onu/heatran/sazandu you mentioned to a similar tactic used in ubers with dialga/palkia/giratina (steel/dragon offense) and yeah this new trio seems promising. I personally like denting pokemon off the bat so cb onu is something I will definately try out especially if I get ozu in before too many hazards are in play, but dd as you mentioned is still highly dangerous, especially late game...

sazando's choice specs set is really similar to latias/dialga (in ubers) in terms of denting the opposing team, so the power duo will cause some damage especially if you manage to keep SR on the opponent's side of the field as it will cripple their switches. heatran never disappoints as always and it helps in terms of resistances and damage output (something crazy like cb onu/ cspecs sazando/cspecs/scarf tran would actually catch some people off guard) but of course the new water/ghost pokemon could be troubling so actually the sub set with toxic is really gonna come in handy...

yeah lets hope all this theorymoning will live up to our expectations in reality lol I'll be heart broken if stall dominates next metagame too
 
R.B.G. said:
Possible Sets:
These sets are subject to change as I learn more about Ononokusu.
Choice Scarf
Ability - Mold Breaker
Item - Choice Scarf
Nature - Adamant/Jolly
EVs - 4 HP/252 Attack/252 Speed
Moves - Outrage/Shadow Claw/Earthquake/(filler TBA)​
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​

Maybe X-Scissor would make a good filler
 
Sparko said:
something crazy like cb onu/ cspecs sazando/cspecs/scarf tran would actually catch some people off guard
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O.o that sounds like a revenging feast! That would surprise the hell out of most teams, let alone break through soooooo much. Some how I can easily see that as very nice combination! Any hit from the CB Ono would either be KO worthy, or a large dent in their pokemon. From there, if the Ono would need to switch out, 9 times out of 10 Sazando would probably be able to come in, and forces the switch or KO. Then the process would jsut repeat alongside Tran, and cycle through until the counters would be fully checked lol. It would be hella fun to run for the suprise factor for sure:pimp:

but of course the new water/ghost pokemon could be troubling so actually the sub set with toxic is really gonna come in handy...
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Yes indeed. That new water/ghost is problimatic, but the Sub tran's toxics, and Sazando's choiced dark STAB will scare it off hopefully.

yeah lets hope all this theorymoning will live up to our expectations in reality lol I'll be heart broken if stall dominates next metagame too
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T.T I hope so as well. Even though stall was a bit uncommon after awhile, the offensive powers may cause stall some problems. Conversly, stall may become more offensive, but then it would be playing more into the offensive teams terms.
 
the thing that disappointed me most this gen is that Weavile had the perfect chance to get Technician and they gave it away to Breloom. I haven't done calculations, but I don't think a max Atk weavile can stop this thing with a single Ice Shard, and I'm not even considering if this thing pulls a Garchomp and carries a Yache around waiting to slip on a patch of ice.
 
pkmn-taicho321 said:
the thing that disappointed me most this gen is that Weavile had the perfect chance to get Technician and they gave it away to Breloom. I haven't done calculations, but I don't think a max Atk weavile can stop this thing with a single Ice Shard, and I'm not even considering if this thing pulls a Garchomp and carries a Yache around waiting to slip on a patch of ice.
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Standard Revenger Killer Weavile's Ice Shard still OHKOs (103.1% minimum). I'm also pretty pissed off about Weavile not getting Technician, but Wicked Thief does have potential.

How about a Lead set? A Double Chop coming off base 147 Attack is pretty powerful and enough to ruin most Focus Sash leads.

Mold Breaker
Choice Scarf
Adamant
EVs HP 4 / 252 ATK / 252 SPE
-Double Chop
-Earthquake
-Filler
-Filler

Double Chop basically has 120 BP with both hits and STAB and breaks both Focus Sash and the new Sturdy. Only that new Custap Aggron is a big problem, but others are pretty much neutralized.
 
The King of Harts said:
Standard Revenger Killer Weavile's Ice Shard still OHKOs (103.1% minimum). I'm also pretty pissed off about Weavile not getting Technician, but Wicked Thief does have potential.
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Standard revenge killer doesn't OHKO Ono. Standard Weavile deals 69.2-82.9%. On bulkier sets running max hp, Weavile does 57.6-68.4%. If it comes in to try and revenge kill Ono who's at a healthy amount of HP, and has a DD under it's belt, it can kill it back with either Dragon Claw or Outrage.
 
Epic Cherubi said:
Do the math, Garchomp nearly OHKOs Ononon with a neutral Outrage.
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Onono switchres in on something that dislikes it after a kill.

Garchomp is your Onono counter.

You switch in Chomp, Onono DD's. Or, Onono uses Outrage, and OHKO's Chomp right then and there.

Assumeing Chomp is Scarfed, and Jolly, not Adamant, it uses Outrage, and fails to OHKO [SR is not assumed in Gen 5, especially with Aiming Horn, and the lack of it being a TM]. Any other condition, and Onono KO's Chomp without Garchomp getting to move.

Onono then OHKO's Chomp back [Assumeing there's no Sand Veil hax involved], and proceeds to sweep, asumeing you don't have Priority / another scarfer.

Almost is not enough. Sure, Onono is crippled, but crippled is still functional, especially when you're outspeeding anything without a Scarf, and have the power to 2HKO Skarmory with a Resisted attack.

And even if Onono has taken prior damage, and is KO'ed, you've just locked your Garchomp in, to 'counter' something.

Short Version: Scarfed Garchomp =/= counter to DDHaban Onono, check, maybe, counter, no.
 
Raikaria said:
Onono switchres in on something that dislikes it after a kill.

Garchomp is your Onono counter.

You switch in Chomp, Onono DD's. Or, Onono uses Outrage, and OHKO's Chomp right then and there.

Assumeing Chomp is Scarfed, and Jolly, not Adamant, it uses Outrage, and fails to OHKO [SR is not assumed in Gen 5, especially with Aiming Horn, and the lack of it being a TM]. Any other condition, and Onono KO's Chomp without Garchomp getting to move.

Onono then OHKO's Chomp back [Assumeing there's no Sand Veil hax involved], and proceeds to sweep, asumeing you don't have Priority / another scarfer.

Almost is not enough. Sure, Onono is crippled, but crippled is still functional, especially when you're outspeeding anything without a Scarf, and have the power to 2HKO Skarmory with a Resisted attack.

And even if Onono has taken prior damage, and is KO'ed, you've just locked your Garchomp in, to 'counter' something.

Short Version: Scarfed Garchomp =/= counter to DDHaban Onono, check, maybe, counter, no.
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After running calcs on it, I agree about this as well. With the Haban berry Chomp wont be dropping Ono, let alone an Ono without Haban berry either (dealing a maximum of 83% damage). With a Haban berry, that percent drops a a good bit, and with Rai's flowchart of outcomes, Chomp would be OHKO'ed after a boosted DD or a non boosted DD for that matter.

edit- Might have calc'ed the Berry and the non-berry versions wrong. Going to double check.
 
AxelLow said:
Standard revenge killer doesn't OHKO Ono. Standard Weavile deals 69.2-82.9%. On bulkier sets running max hp, Weavile does 57.6-68.4%. If it comes in to try and revenge kill Ono who's at a healthy amount of HP, and has a DD under it's belt, it can kill it back with either Dragon Claw or Outrage.
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What numbers are you crunching? Even if Ono put 252 EVs in HP, Weavile's Ice Shard does 86-101%. Are you sure you're using a Choice Band Jolly 40/252/216 Weavile?
 
Don't know what numbers you're crunching, but +nature max CB Weavile does 72%-86% at most with Ice Shard against Ono without any HP investment. Remember, it's only x2 weak to Ice.
 
The King of Harts said:
What numbers are you crunching? Even if Ono put 252 EVs in HP, Weavile's Ice Shard does 86-101%. Are you sure you're using a Choice Band Jolly 40/252/216 Weavile?
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Lol, im crunching the correct numbers here:

Weavile w/ CB and Jolly Nature with the standard Revenge Killer spread such as the one you just listed deals 69.9-82.9% damage to a Ono with it's standard Jolly DD spread (i.e 252 atk/252 spe/4 Hp). Standard weavile against a bulky Ono with 252HP invested deals 57.6-68.4% damage to it.

I used smogon's damage Calc, and used dragonair as a primer for Ono to have the mono dragon typing. I then tweaked the base stats through the edit option to make it into an Ono. EV's and all.
 
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