Haxorus

69.4% - 82.3% is the correct number for Jolly Weavile's Ice Shard.

Assuming 0HP/0Def/0SpDef:

Adamant Mamoswine with Choice Band Ice Shard: 80.3% - 94.6%
Bold Vaporeon with 0 EV Investment with Ice Beam: 68% - 80.3%
Jolly Scarf Chomp with Outrage vs Haban Ono: 72.8% - 86.1%
Scarf Starmie with Ice Beam, Timid 252 SpAtk EVs: 78.9% - 93.2%
 
If it matters, Mamoswine has a very good chance of KOing after Stealth Rocks and ALWAYS after Life Orb.

Oh how I dont like the sound of that... >.<

@EvilMario- Man those calcs seem painful. Having Vaporeon hit that hard as well maybe problematic, but with +1 Outrage we can 2HKO on the standard wish support (of course, I have no idea what the newer vaporeon sets might be). Seeing scarfed starmie hit close to those numbers as well is dreadful, and would require a prior DD as well to hopefully knock it out. Out of all of them though, Mamoswine scares me the most. especially after seeing what Epic typed.
 
Lol, im crunching the correct numbers here:

Weavile w/ CB and Jolly Nature with the standard Revenge Killer spread such as the one you just listed deals 69.9-82.9% damage to a Ono with it's standard Jolly DD spread (i.e 252 atk/252 spe/4 Hp). Standard weavile against a bulky Ono with 252HP invested deals 57.6-68.4% damage to it.

I used smogon's damage Calc, and used dragonair as a primer for Ono to have the mono dragon typing. I then tweaked the base stats through the edit option to make it into an Ono. EV's and all.
I found my mistake! I've been using the calculator a lot today while making a rough draft team and I accidentally left a +1 boost in the calcs. After removing I got your numbers. I feel so silly now. Sorry for the ruckus.
 
thats where mold breaker comes in handy bud ;) levitate doesnt count for anything anymore so flygon wouldnt be a safe switch in either
 
Why are we discussing Mamo and Weavile as dragon-killers here? They can't switch in on an attack from Onono, and if they try to revenge him with Ice Shard nothing is stopping him from switching out. Didn't we already learn this in gen IV? inb4 "hey gais its a new gaem gen IV not applicable!!1!" (which it actually is in this case)
 
Why are we discussing Mamo and Weavile as dragon-killers here? They can't switch in on an attack from Onono, and if they try to revenge him with Ice Shard nothing is stopping him from switching out. Didn't we already learn this in gen IV? inb4 "hey gais its a new gaem gen IV not applicable!!1!" (which it actually is in this case)

They were discussed because the numbers were brought up speculating that weavile could kill Ono, which it can't. As was mamoswine, who as epic mentioned, with stealth rocks and LO can revenge it if kept in, making it a plausible check to Ono, regardless of whether it can switch out or not. And it's pretty damn obvious that they can't switch in on an attack from Ono, especially weavile, neither would switching in Mamoswine be the same.
 
In my opinion Ono doesn't have a true counter because of its stupid power. However, it is checked by many things like Scarfchomp, Scarfditto (if eccentric works like we're all hoping), CB Weavile, that Steel/Fighting horse, even Scarfgon. That combined with its mediocre speed will be what keeps Ononokusu from being broken.
 
@CWW
Coz Chomp gets Pwned if it switches in to a DD
@Omnipresent
Remember where Wobbufett Went?
@Sparko
resists all of rotom's moves? Blizzard?


SubSalacDD Onono also makes sure Weavile can't do crap to it and can't be burnt, toxicated, t-waved etc


Ya, but I'm hopin they won't ban that version of shandy, because this is a different meta, ya know?
 
Ya, but I'm hopin they won't ban that version of shandy, because this is a different meta, ya know?

Don't worry about Shanderra going anywhere Omni. even if it does have shadow tag. If anything, it'll just be OU's Shadow Tagger if need be. Even outside of it's ST ability, that thing is damn good and useful, and makes for a great partner regardless to Ono.

@Hart- I agree that Ono is giving itself a nice showing as we continue to put more research into him. Alot of pokemon that we previously believed to be counters to it have began turning into checks, while some can only wall specific sets to a degree. Skarmory still makes a decent hard counter to any Ono not carrying taunt, and the same can be said for Natto. As mentioned, if the scarfer doesn't K.O Ono before it has time to retaliate it more then likely sweep the remaining team if other checks aren't in place for it. Albeit, even scarfRachi has to fear coming in on Ono with one DD up since ice-punch will only do around 51.4-61% damage on Ono. While in the other case, gets killed off afterwards by the EQ.

Strangely enough, the pokemon that generally do well against Ono are of bug/steel typing. Scizor can 2HKO Ono with Bullet Punch and resist Outrage, while still taking minimal damage from EQ even at +1. Natto can do the same, hitting with a powerful gyro-ball that can 2HKO it in a heart beat. The same thing about Natto applies to Forry as well. Skarmory is another counter as well, allowing it to still hit Ono for a powerufl brave bird that has a chance to 2HKO, although taunt Ono can make it become setup fodder, or an easier kill for others.
 
Why are we discussing Mamo and Weavile as dragon-killers here? They can't switch in on an attack from Onono, and if they try to revenge him with Ice Shard nothing is stopping him from switching out. Didn't we already learn this in gen IV? inb4 "hey gais its a new gaem gen IV not applicable!!1!" (which it actually is in this case)

I'm sure a veteran such as yourself would know the benefit of being able to revenge when a Dragon is stuck in Outrage, it's most powerful attack.

By your logic, nothing can revenge, or counter anything because any Pokemon can simply switch out. Only Shadow Tag/Arena Trap for you, eh?
 
People are forgetting that Ono isn't like Salamence: it cannot threaten with a mix set. Forcing him to use Outrage means he is much easier to deal with, and it's not hard to do with a few pivots. Send in your Steel-type immediately, switch to something like Gyarados or Salamence as it either boosts again or Earthquakes. Intimidate will lower its attack, and it is forced to use Outrage or die. The new Dark/Dragon can do something similar, Timid Scarf Draco Meteor does 101.7% - 120.1% to Haban Berry 0/0 Ononokusu. As others have said, Skarmory, Forretress, Scizor, Nuttre (or whatever Grass/Steel), and Scarf Jirachi (Iron Head) can check it. Its power really is ridiculous, but there are plenty of Pokemon that can come in and force it out, not to mention what the fuck is it going to set up on? One of the weakest attacks in OU, Swampert's Boiling Water, is doing 17.4% - 20.5%. Ono wouldn't want to switch into Swampert... but that is just an example. Between switching into entry hazards and the powerful attacks of OU, I really don't see how it'll set up. Just the damage from Swampert's Boiling Water allows Nuttre to OHKO with Gyro Ball after Stealth Rock and Life Orb.
 
Not only does this thing have a broken ability to combat with it's 147 Base Attack, but it has a phazing move in Dragon Tail which hits and forces your opponent to switch (Skarm), and then nails another hit...
 
Shouldn't a set like this work? :

Ononokurusu @ ?
Adamant
> Mold Breaker
252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail / Taunt

It scouts for Ono's counters and blasts them away with Dragon Tail, Outrage is the main STAB option, and Earthquake is to hit Steel-types. Dragon Dance can be used if your sure you're gonna end up in a sweep. It can also prevent Skarmory from Whirlwinding Ono's boosts and instead it gets Dragon Tail'd.
 
With chomp, mence around, I'd only use ononokusu as a choice bander, It hits hard and switch out after. I'd use Garchomp for SD and mence for mix or DD.
 
This is going to be absolutely terrrifying! But it will not be the best it can be due to the fact it only has 97 Base Speed, not reaching the 100 Base speed tier which many high tier pokemon acheive. Pokemon #635, Sazando, Dragon/Dark type though has 98 Base Speed and has a high special attack, which with a Draco Meteor can penetrate through Ononokusu's terrible Special Defencive capabilities, add a Scarf and you have a reliable check or revenge killer.
 
This thing is definitely not overhyped. Its power is true !!! And not to mention the choice scarf set might be effective. it also become a reliable counter to water rotom which i theorymonned to be a great gen 5 threats
 
Ononokusu @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 SDef / 184 Spe
Ability: Moldbreaker
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake
~ Taunt

Slightly bulkier on the Special side with plenty of power. with Moldbreaker the moves should get decent coverage and not much should ruin your party with Taunt. It's the set I'm going to be trying out first..
 
atleast this dragon is much more easy to block since he doesnt learn fire moves outside of complete burn tm wich is a special attack with 30 base power so this dragons worst enemy will be skarmory since he doesnt have phisical electric or fire attacks and 60 base special attack doest do anything to hurt him it resist its stab imune to earthquak(thak god he doest have levitate insead of its flying type) resist shadow claw night slash x scizor it resist every phisical atack this dragon has now that i see it lol with neutrality to brick bracke
 
What will Skarmory do ? Brave Bird ? All it can do is Whirlwind, and this beast can either Dragon Tail to go before Whirlwind or use Taunt and turns Skarmory into a set-up bait, Skarmory is also 2HKO'd by a +2 Outrage.
 
Well for about 3-4 hrs straight I calc'ed up my Bulky Ono's set. I looked through all the current OU pokemon only, and only factoring in a few of the new counters it has. Over the course of all the calcs, Scizor came out every time as the top check, as well as forry, Natto, and Skarmory(to an extent). With my bulky set being tweaked all around, Jirachi wont be able to effectively counter it without it possibly staying it and only continuing to boost its damage (bar the substitute T-Wave set).

Ononokusu @Leftovers/Haban Berry/Lum Berry
Adamant/Jolly Nature
200 HP/44 Atk/60 Def/204 Spe (ev's need to be tweaked if using Jolly)
Ability: Mold Breaker
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Taunt

The item will depend on what your more afraid of really: Scarfchomp, not enough bulk, and status effects. the atk EV's are enough for Ono to OHKO ScarfRachi after 1 DD, and OHKO SD Lucario without any boost. A scizor bullet punch wont do as much damage (48.4-57.2%), but still needs to be feared because you wont be able to KO it. It's better to just switch out if it shows up, and counter it respectively. As I've already mentioned before, Jirachi becomes a possible set fodder, except for the sub T-wave set. The Wish Calm Mind set can't do enough damage to you, allowing you to easily get 2 DD's. The scarfed set will either be setup bait, or hax you to hell. Here's a quick outcome chart for ScarfRachi:

This is if Jirachi is switched in to attempt to check Ono after it's already got a +1 one form the switch:

1. Jirachi Iron Heads- Iron Head will do 32.6-38.7% which will only 4HKO with Leftovers, and possibly 3HKO without. The scary portion of this is the flinch rate, which would be at 60% do to serene grace. IMO, I'd personally risk another DD here since I'd still have a 40% chance to not be flinched. After that 2nd DD, Jirachi is slower then Ono, and dies immediately to the EQ. If you dont have another check for it after Jirachi, you can pretty much expect your team to lose some more pokes possibly.

2. Jirachi Ice Punches- Not as scary as Iron Head Hax. It'll deal around 41.1-48.7% to this Ono. If it doesn't freeze you then Ono gets a free DD, Kill, and possible sweep afterwards.

Other reliables checks are: Natto & Forry (both of which who take laughable damage from EQ, and resist stabs), Skarmory (although brave bird can't reliably 2HKO this set, but it can still take it out before it becomes to strong. it has to beware of a +2 outrage though), Flygon (those that dont hold Haban Berry or at +2), ScarfChomp (same as Flygon), Mamoswine, Shaymin (LO sweeper only), and Machamp (who'll almost be kO'ed, but will OHKO with one Dynamic Punch).

If anything, I'll be trying this set out along with the scarfed. With the right teammates though, Ono will be ferocious. Possible partners can range from all different prespects. Heatran, and Sazando, for one, are both powerful teammates that can deal with his common checks. Shanderra with ST can trap possible checks, and place them in unfavorable situations or simply KO them. Some bulky waters can give him problems, but having a poke that deals with the waters can make his sweeping easier as well.

This thing has so many viable teammates, and a good bit of sets that are quite variable to make prediction somewhat hard against this thing.
 
I do not get why I would use that set over the bulkier, faster, better-typed, Intimidating Salamence. Yeah, it isn't auto-KOd by Ice moves but it's a hell of a lot harder to set up and bulky sets are just useless without Roost.
 
I do not get why I would use that set over the bulkier, faster, better-typed, Intimidating Salamence. Yeah, it isn't auto-KOd by Ice moves but it's a hell of a lot harder to set up and bulky sets are just useless without Roost.

I dont even know why your commenting if you would rather use salamence over Ono anyway. And when has roost determined the viability of a bulky set? Better yet, why bring salamence up again when it's already been stated that it shouldn't be compared to mence? Let alone you bring up roost when other BULKY sets that dont have access to roost do it just fine?

I dont get why I would use Salamence over the bulkier, more versatile, harder hitting, and better played Rayquaza without having to use roost?
 
I don't get why you're posting if you're going to ignore everyone elses opinions. I have actually provided arguments, you haven't. It's been stated that it shouldn't be compared to Mence, but without adequate reasoning; yes, both have advantages, but Ononokusu's main perk is that it doesn't die to random Ice attacks. Salamence is faster and can use Fire Blast to nail stuff like Nuttre and Skarm, not to mention that Dragon / Flying with Intimidate is so much easier to set up than a really specially frail pure Dragon. Bulky DD Ono is even more outclassed since it doesn't get recovery and has worse defenses and defensive typing.

Rayquaza is likely to be Uber in Gen V, Salamence probably won't be. So that part of your argument is irrelevant.

Relevant calcs.
 
i really like ononokusu. the only major problem i see with him atm is skarm. yes taunt can help however its not going to enjoy taking brave birds to the face. i was really disappointed when i saw it doesnt even learn stone edge among any noteworthy fire move. my prediction is that DD/haban will be a popular choice due to all the dragons that will outspeed it (5th gen pseudo legend/flygon/chomp/mence). taunt will probably be the last move due to having nothing else better and just its overall utility. also i dont get why people are saying CB outrage 2KO's skarm (it doesnt even 2ko sp.def skarm).

ps: im sorry if this was already covered in the topic but was the "outrage stops rampaging if it hits a steel" rumour true?

edit: NAH its not
 
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