Giratina-O resists Bug, Electric, Fire, Grass, Poison, and Water. It is immune to Fighting, Ground, and Normal, as well as Spikes + Toxic Spikes. Its STAB moves hit most of Ubers for super effective damage. This guy resists Electric, Grass, and Water. It isn't immune to anything. Dragon + Ice offers redundant coverage. While he'll certainly have a niche, comparing him to Giratina-O is insane, to be frank.
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Kyurem
- Thread starter Aerrow
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Giratina-O resists Bug, Electric, Fire, Grass, Poison, and Water. It is immune to Fighting, Ground, and Normal, as well as Spikes + Toxic Spikes. Its STAB moves hit most of Ubers for super effective damage. This guy resists Electric, Grass, and Water. It isn't immune to anything. Dragon + Ice offers redundant coverage. While he'll certainly have a niche, comparing him to Giratina-O is insane, to be frank.
Kyuremu is my most favorite pokemon. It perfect for its type ( Ice/Dragon) and well rounded base start. I think I can use it to beat the whole opponent team. However, beside it distinct move which have power:65 and sharply reduce opponent speed, it can also learn ice shard from some move tutor. Kyuremu, you are great pokemon.
I have high hope for Kyuremu because he has potential of powerful dragon in pokemon world.
Same reason Rotom-S has levitate I guess...don't worry though, I almost guarantee Kyuremu will be getting an alternate form or two in the third game (hopefully with more interesting abilities). Apparently it has two ridiculously overpowered signature moves called Freeze Bolt (Ice, 140 bp, 90 acc 30% paralysis) and Cold Flare (Ice, 140 bp, 90 acc 30% burn) that it can't learn atm. You'll notice that it doesn't learn any move at lv100, which is the level Reshiram and Zekrom learn their most powerful signature move.
He's actually my second favorite type so far (behind Dragon/Electric, which I waited years for), but despite this, I can't help but feel that it's a tad clunky. Dragon moves have much more coverage than ice, and are already supereffective on dragon types. When facing Reshiram, it's forced to use a dragon type move, and it won't do any good at all against steel types. Water makes ice less effective while dragon hits for neutral damage.
As I said, I really like the typing because and ice dragon sounds wicked, but I can't help but feel this is a clunky combination. Dragon pulls out on top if it's placed in the uber category.
As I said, I really like the typing because and ice dragon sounds wicked, but I can't help but feel this is a clunky combination. Dragon pulls out on top if it's placed in the uber category.
Yeah I'm agreeing with this statement/ prediction. If I'm correct, the format for the Generation 5 games will basically be a duplicate of the generation 4 format; the premier two games being released first (Diamond/ Pearl and Black/ White), then a sequel to the series which in the DP example would be Pokemon Platinum version. Probably in the next game (if there will be one), Kyuremu will get an alternate form as well as a its own signature move which it doesn't current have access to in the current games.
Kyuremu probably will get an alternate form. This sprite for this form looks kinda lame :(... Btw, I'm not sure what niche it'll fill in Ubers (it won't be OU for a fact) Rayquaza serves as a better wallbreaker, if not the best in OU. Giratina offers bulkiness and a better defensive typing, as well as being the best spinblocker ever. I honestly hope it gets some perks.
I think Ho-oh may be a common revenge killer for Kyuremu. It has access to both Earthquake and fire moves, and, if I remember correctly, a higher base speed and just about the same base attack. I can't see Kyuremu using physical attacks, and that forces it to focus on special attacks, something Ho-oh has a high base stat for. At worst, it will take neutral damage from dragon moves, but that's about it. I think Ho-oh is Kyuremu's check, unless I'm missing something.
E1: I did miss something, Ho-oh has 5 points less base speed, so you'll have to work around that somehow. Still, with the same base attack, and 154 base SpD, it's a good counter.
Seriously? Remember, it has a base 130 stat in both offensive stats; also, where did you get the idea that Kyuremu will not be able to use physical moves? Outrage and Dragon Claw are only a couple to mention which fall under the category of physical attacks.
If they have the third game come out in this series (gen V), I think that Kyuremu form will have some thing relate to Reshiram or Zekrom and two of his powerful move ( freeze bolt and cold flare).For example: If Kyuremu involve with Reshiram, the move will be cold flare and with Zekrom will be freeze bolt.
I misworded that wrong, I meant physical ice, not physical dragon. The only decent physical ice is 140 BP and Kyuremu doesn't have access to that on level up.
And even if Ho-oh came in to revenge kill Kyuremu, I'm pretty sure it can take one Outrage, then Ho-oh OHKOs it with supereffective fire.
What I'm really curious to see is if it turns out to be uber or OU.
With its major gaping scizor weakness, base 95 speed, and the fact that its stabs are both resisted by steel, and the fire lacking movepool I see this being in OU. It is majorly weakened by the fact that without hp investment it will die to a sd boosted bullet punch. I see this could work like a krillowatt of the 5th gen. I just find it hard to believe that with so many hindrances that it could be an egregious threat to the uber metagame with things like reshiram running around, and with the face that salamence out classes it in both speed and physical power, and with a few dragon dances is able to crush it. I could see if it got another form that it could be possible that the form could be in ubers but for now i see this in OU, for it seems easily predictable and also very easy to play around even if your team isn't ready for it.
Yeah, this seems like the one thing that, despite its bases, probably will need to be tested in OU like the other legendaries.
Doesn't mean it'll work out, but we'll have to see.
Doesn't mean it'll work out, but we'll have to see.
What is this hail boost of which you speak?
A myth, from the looks of it.
HP Fire easily OHKO's Scizor and dishes out a lot of hurt on things like Metagross which might come in. Plus pretty much all the counters, bar some Jirachi, are Magnezone fodder.
Although I will admit a fire coverage move would make this thing so much better. Plus the supposed extra form/s and two lvl 100 moves.
Predictable? Not really, however a Steel type will handle it as the first switch. If a Zone or something or just another Dragon using Outrage (the same kind of tactic used to dispose of steels in Ubers e.g. Ray+Sally) takes out the Steel Kyu will wreak havoc from either physical or special side, or both.
The speed isn't really a major issue once it gets in anyway, since it won't be stat boosting except possibly under Hail. As you pointed out, its main counter is Bullet Punch and SR, both of which hit regardless of speed. With its extra powered Icy Wind thingo, it gains a perfect attack to hit the switch in once the steels are gone.
BTW, does anyone know if it does learn those moves (if they exist - where did you get this information) in B+W, or if we have to wait for those in the next version too?
Although I will admit a fire coverage move would make this thing so much better. Plus the supposed extra form/s and two lvl 100 moves.
Predictable? Not really, however a Steel type will handle it as the first switch. If a Zone or something or just another Dragon using Outrage (the same kind of tactic used to dispose of steels in Ubers e.g. Ray+Sally) takes out the Steel Kyu will wreak havoc from either physical or special side, or both.
The speed isn't really a major issue once it gets in anyway, since it won't be stat boosting except possibly under Hail. As you pointed out, its main counter is Bullet Punch and SR, both of which hit regardless of speed. With its extra powered Icy Wind thingo, it gains a perfect attack to hit the switch in once the steels are gone.
BTW, does anyone know if it does learn those moves (if they exist - where did you get this information) in B+W, or if we have to wait for those in the next version too?
It would be fun if this thing is going to be tested in OU, I can see it being a fun pokemon to base your team around.
With that said, if that becomes true, Hail would be a bit more viable again. Hail has been hampered by DrizzleToed, Drought Ninetales and the new Sandstorm abilities so this is a niche for Hail. But besides that it'll become a bit difficult. Kyuremu can run a Scarf set in Hail and shine. I mean Stab Blizzard isn't anything to laugh at, especially since it's on par with Outrage, just you don't get stuck. Sure more pokes will wall you, but that's why it's Scarf. Besides, they have to guess between Draco Meteor and Blizzard anyway. Steel types are a bitch for this though lol.
With that said, if that becomes true, Hail would be a bit more viable again. Hail has been hampered by DrizzleToed, Drought Ninetales and the new Sandstorm abilities so this is a niche for Hail. But besides that it'll become a bit difficult. Kyuremu can run a Scarf set in Hail and shine. I mean Stab Blizzard isn't anything to laugh at, especially since it's on par with Outrage, just you don't get stuck. Sure more pokes will wall you, but that's why it's Scarf. Besides, they have to guess between Draco Meteor and Blizzard anyway. Steel types are a bitch for this though lol.
CB Adamant Buller Punch Scizor vs. 4 HP Kyuremu
94.77% -> 112.89%
100% OHKO with SR up, without it Scizor almost always OHKO. It looks the same with Technician Mach Punch Breloom. I thought you were wrong from the beginning (no offense) as Tyranitar also dies in one hit, as Tyranitar has really similar bulk on physical side (100/110 vs 125/90). No, Scizor is pretty much perfect check except HP Fire. While HP Fire is cool idea, it lowers your speed to 30IVs in it, allowing Kyuremu being outspeeded by Max Speed Jolly Rayquaza and other positive 95's, which is pretty dangerous idea.
I disagree, Defensive Metagross is pretty much perfect check (offensive may also do it, however Specs HP Fire may trouble it from such massive special attack). For first, Kyuremu doesn't learn for some strange reason Earthquake, so Metagross doesn't need to fear this one. For second Metagross gets in, take hit and annihilates Kyuremu with STAB Meteor Mash. Even if it survives, you may bullet punch it to death. Looking for other one ? No problem, Jirachi is here. The only thing which may dent it is Specs HP Fire and it gives just free turn for example for Tyranitar. When you count SR, even with this defenses, Kyuremu takes HEAVY hit when switching out and with few bad weaknesses it may not even find free turn to do it. Without Specs, EVERY single Jirachi handle it. And more funny thing is that Jirachi runs Special Defensive EVs, even HP Fire isn't a problem. If you face Choice Band - only Outrage may stand a chance to 2OHKO 4 HP Jirachi. The problem is that most 4 HP Jirachi are Scarfed, so you may just Iron Head flinch hax it to death ;). And it may just Wish any damage Kyuremu deals. Still not bulky enough ? No problem, Bronzong is even bulkier and STAB Gyro Ball will hurt like hell, I guarrantee it. I can't imagine Kyuremu breaking through Bronzong anytime soon. Another interesting example is Registeel, probably the bulkiest of them and it can handle one Focus Blast without problems if it looks bad. After this T-Wave and Iron Head it to death. Kyuremu is perfect example how second type may cripple pretty much perfect Pokemon. It's strong, have good enough speed and mostly power to use with good effect. But good steels just stop it without problems. Especially those without x4 weakness. However good Magnezone or Shanderaa support may easily fix this. It has power, but it can't break through some targets. Good High OU IMO. Nothing more.
Hmm, thanks for that. It seemed kinda strange to me, I must have used the formula wrong somehow.
The bulky steels are correct of course, for some reason I thought it must get Earthquake. Although the majority of these get completely screwed over by a Electrolevitate Magnezone (or Shanderaa if its not ubered) with the exception of some non-Choiced Jirachi.
What else would counter it apart from these trappable Steels?
I hear what you're saying and I'm not exactly suggesting it as a guaranteed Uber in its current form. It occupies a borderline state between the two tiers.
The bulky steels are correct of course, for some reason I thought it must get Earthquake. Although the majority of these get completely screwed over by a Electrolevitate Magnezone (or Shanderaa if its not ubered) with the exception of some non-Choiced Jirachi.
What else would counter it apart from these trappable Steels?
I hear what you're saying and I'm not exactly suggesting it as a guaranteed Uber in its current form. It occupies a borderline state between the two tiers.
Kyuremu @ Leftovers
(Haven't decided on EVs yet)
Pressure Ability/ Mild Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Fire]
Dunno why this set hasn't been brought up yet. It's a pretty simple and obvious one. Kyuremu can make 101 hp subs without a huge EV investment and Blissey gets 2hko'd by Outrage. Substitute also allows it to scout for switchins like Scizor and Metagross. Dialga gets destroyed by Focus Blast and takes considerable damage from STAB Ice Beam and Outrage as well. I'm pretty sure if Dialga switches in on an Ice Beam, Focus Blast will kill it.
Hidden Power Fire is also an option for Metagross and Scizor if you really think they will cause huge problems but I'd rather run Focus Blast that'll still hit those steels for Neutral damage as well as scoring Super Effective hits on Dialga and Tyranitar.
You can also drop Substitute and go with Draco Meteor if you want to give up protection for power.
(Haven't decided on EVs yet)
Pressure Ability/ Mild Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Fire]
Dunno why this set hasn't been brought up yet. It's a pretty simple and obvious one. Kyuremu can make 101 hp subs without a huge EV investment and Blissey gets 2hko'd by Outrage. Substitute also allows it to scout for switchins like Scizor and Metagross. Dialga gets destroyed by Focus Blast and takes considerable damage from STAB Ice Beam and Outrage as well. I'm pretty sure if Dialga switches in on an Ice Beam, Focus Blast will kill it.
Hidden Power Fire is also an option for Metagross and Scizor if you really think they will cause huge problems but I'd rather run Focus Blast that'll still hit those steels for Neutral damage as well as scoring Super Effective hits on Dialga and Tyranitar.
You can also drop Substitute and go with Draco Meteor if you want to give up protection for power.
Its actually potentially better in Ubers than OU even with the Scizor and Gross and Jirachi which will presumably still be there.
shipship, I disagree with you. Yes, Uber's a ban list. However, Kyuremu has so many overpowered aspects in OU but also quite a few hindering factors. What do you do if it is tested in OU, indeed found to be too powerful, and banned - but then its almost never used in Uber? (It would get some use but hardly in the usual 680 BST dragon range). Nothing, exactly. You have a very powerful pokemon not getting use because it sits on the borderline of both tiers.
Rayquaza_ your suggestions are pretty much how I envisaged him being used in Ubers. I can't wait for some better attack options here since its limited movepool really holds it back.
shipship, I disagree with you. Yes, Uber's a ban list. However, Kyuremu has so many overpowered aspects in OU but also quite a few hindering factors. What do you do if it is tested in OU, indeed found to be too powerful, and banned - but then its almost never used in Uber? (It would get some use but hardly in the usual 680 BST dragon range). Nothing, exactly. You have a very powerful pokemon not getting use because it sits on the borderline of both tiers.
Rayquaza_ your suggestions are pretty much how I envisaged him being used in Ubers. I can't wait for some better attack options here since its limited movepool really holds it back.