Chandelure

Electro Gypsy said:
There comes a time when a pokemon so easy to use can completely change the metagame at a whim and the masses don't want it banned because it's the only thing they'll use to check a variety of threats. Shanderaa is that pokemon, it will be the pokemon you see on every single team because it's so easy to use. It makes clicking Bullet Punch look like rocket science. It will be far worse than Garchomp, because Shanderaa will eliminate the use of Choiced attacks that can't also OHKO it. Got a Starmie weakness? Scarf Shanderaa on revenge! Got a problem with Jirachi? Sub CM! Skarmory got you down? Any variety will work! You don't even need to use it properly to get a single kill every time since you can just throw it out on Revenge. Almost every pokemon that can be OHKOed by Choice Scarf Shanderaa has reason to run Shed Shell. Who cares if TTar revenge kills you, because at the end of the day this pokemon has done its job.
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I personally think the exact same thing could be said about Gen IV Garchomp. Not to a bigger extent, not to a lesser.
Anyway, I see your poin't, which is exactly why I'm hoping for a Shadow Tag Clause. Think about it. Ban Shadow Tag and we've got an amazing, NOT broken pokemon. As I stated earlier, Flash Fire Shandy is a less defensive, more offensive Heatran. Trades the shitton of resistances for much more Sp Attack. Flash Fire Shandy seems like a legit OU pokémon to me. I can't wait to test her in Wi-Fi.
 
Use ScarfTar as bait when playing with this thing, as Jolly Max Spe ScarfTar can outrun +115s and below without scarves, so if something revenges it probably has a scarf and if it used an overkilling fighting move switch in SubCM Shanderaa. GG?

I was thinking more of this for SubCM set

Shanderaa@Life Orb
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spe/252 SpA
~Substitute
~Calm Mind
~Shadow Ball
~Nitro Charge

Once in on a choiced fighting move you probably know what to do, if your opponent doesn't leave before you pull off +6 SpA and +6 SpD. This set is kind of overkill and you could go with a spread like 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe if you want to compensate for the fact that it will probably get +6 SpA, +6 SpD and +X Spe. However the more offensive spread increases it's sweeping potential if you didn't get it in on a choiced fighting move. Either set should be fine, but the bulky set does protect it more from physical priority, which is like the only niche in the armor here. Leftovers is also an option, but Life Orb increases the damage output for the offensive spread. The bulky spread may be better suited with Leftovers than Life Orb.

If people continue to use choiced fighting moves then Shanderaa is going to be broken with this set.
 
Black Lotus said:
Use ScarfTar as bait when playing with this thing, as Jolly Max Spe ScarfTar can outrun +115s and below without scarves, so if something revenges it probably has a scarf and if it used an overkilling fighting move switch in SubCM Shanderaa. GG?

I was thinking more of this for SubCM set

Shanderaa@Life Orb
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spe/252 SpA
~Substitute
~Calm Mind
~Shadow Ball
~Nitro Charge

Once in on a choiced fighting move you probably know what to do, if your opponent doesn't leave before you pull off +6 SpA and +6 SpD. This set is kind of overkill and you could go with a spread like 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spe if you want to compensate for the fact that it will probably get +6 SpA, +6 SpD and +X Spe. However the more offensive spread increases it's sweeping potential if you didn't get it in on a choiced fighting move. Either set should be fine, but the bulky set does protect it more from physical priority, which is like the only niche in the armor here. Leftovers is also an option, but Life Orb increases the damage output for the offensive spread. The bulky spread may be better suited with Leftovers than Life Orb.

If people continue to use choiced fighting moves then Shanderaa is going to be broken with this set.
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Mono ghost? Lol, normal types. With -atk nature, you won't kill them with Nitro Charge.
 
Agreed with the other guys. It has 145 Special Attack BTW. And 80 Speed. Its a completely offensive Heatran, effectively.
I can see the Shadow Tag version being Uber and the normal one being Standard.

When are the Dream World abilities going to be legal?
 
KokoaKiwi said:
I personally think the exact same thing could be said about Gen IV Garchomp. Not to a bigger extent, not to a lesser.
Anyway, I see your poin't, which is exactly why I'm hoping for a Shadow Tag Clause. Think about it. Ban Shadow Tag and we've got an amazing, NOT broken pokemon. As I stated earlier, Flash Fire Shandy is a less defensive, more offensive Heatran. Trades the shitton of resistances for much more Sp Attack. Flash Fire Shandy seems like a legit OU pokémon to me. I can't wait to test her in Wi-Fi.
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So far, seeing shandera used in youtube videos, its theoretical potential for being broken doesn't seem to have been realized. Whether or not it will be is still to be seen. Whether or not it's broken also depends on how people respond to it. If people stubbornly keep using choiced fight/normal attacks even when they know there's a shandera waiting in the wings, there could easily be accusations of brokenness which might otherwise be mitigated if people weren't so in love with choice items. Shadow tag shandera could also have the potential to reduce Blissey usage. If Shadowtag Shandera keeps switching into blissey and setting up, then the smart thing to do is stop using Blissey so much. (Or, perhaps in a twisted way the smarter thing to do is keep stubbornly using blissey and choiced fight/normal attacks and calling for shadow tag shandera to be banned instead of adapting your playstyle).

As for flash-fire shandera, though I still intend to use it competitively, I think it's far too early to call it amazing. It could easily suffer from Rhyperior syndrome (after all, so far shadow tag shandera hasn't even faired well in the videos I've seen!). Furthermore, Gengar trumps it in speed and has 130 base attack, so if the DP metagame's lust for fast monsters carries over to BW, Gengar could easily become the ghost of choice, sacrificing an amazing SpAtk for a still pretty great SpAtk, greater speed, and fewer weaknesses.
 
The fact that it beats hardly any walls and that it can be revenged by so many things helps. Wynaut/Wobbafett + this could be really annoying though so don't draw any conclusions yet.
 
Im still scared of them going, "Just use gengar, it outclasses Flash Fire Shanderaa, so we'll just ban it".
Personally, I hate Gengar with passion. So ugly...
Anyway, I totally agree with RocketSurgery's first paragraph.
 
KokoaKiwi said:
Mono ghost? Lol, normal types. With -atk nature, you won't kill them with Nitro Charge.
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Nitro Charge is there to give Shanderaa +X in Spe so that it won't be outrun by physical attackers. I understand that Nitro Charge has 50 BP, so 75 with STAB, but +6 Shadow Balls off of 145 SpA is still going to hurt even if it is resisted.

I should revise the set that I brought up to this as I just kind of threw the other one down without thinking too much.

Shanderaa@Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
~Substitute
~Calm Mind
~Nitro Charge
~Shadow Ball

Nothing really different, but the bulky set seems more reliable at the job of trapping choiced fighting moves. Though the offensive set is still very viable if you feel that Shanderaa should also have basic sweeping potential. Another thing that I forgot to mention was that you can swap Nitro Charge for Flamethrower, not Fire Blast because of accuracy, if speed isn't a concern.
 
K, you're not seeing my point.
Nitro Charge is physical. With -attack nature, normal types who are immune to Shadow Ball, won't take to much with Nitro Charge, whilst they'll just Shadow Claw you.
 
Has anyone really talked about the potential of using Taunt on this thing? To me it screams "amazing," because 60/90 defenses aren't terrible once you max out the HP stat. After that just max speed for abusing taunt and you'd be surprised at how many things it now sets up on...

for one, not even Blissey with CM have a chance versus you, which was the only thing that would have stopped them from becoming pure set-up bait. There are probably others, but I can't seem to think of them. Maybe I'm overestimating taunt this generation, but it has been a fabulous move since its release so I'm surprised it's so overlooked.... Just watch out for t-tar. You can always use HP Fighting over one of his STABs if that's an issue, or you can even go 3 attacks + taunt.
 
KokoaKiwi said:
K, you're not seeing my point.
Nitro Charge is physical. With -attack nature, normal types who are immune to Shadow Ball, won't take to much with Nitro Charge, whilst they'll just Shadow Claw you.
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Oh yes, you are correct, I thought Nitro Charge was special. I see your point now, there goes that idea. Shanderaa will just have to deal with Flamethrower, lol, and pray that it's sub isn't broken. Though this fact makes my offensive set even more viable.
 
So I just took a look at the volbeat thread. It gets tail glow, which raises SpAtk +3 in one go, and baton pass, which gets priority with mischevious heart. I think you can see where I'm going with this (if not, someone states it explicitly in the Volbeat thread).
 
Roar/ Whirlwind/ Dragon Tail will all fuck up your attempt to Tail Glow BP. Unless it gets Taunt and I missed it, which doesn't even matter considering if you run Sub on Volbeat it can't take any Dragon Tail hit to keep it enough to get off the BP.
 
Articanus said:
Roar/ Whirlwind/ Dragon Tail will all fuck up your attempt to Tail Glow BP. Unless it gets Taunt and I missed it, which doesn't even matter considering if you run Sub on Volbeat it can't take any Dragon Tail hit to keep it enough to get off the BP.
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Although I don't actually forsee tail glow passing volbeat as being viable, in principle it just needs to be able to get a tail glow off, and then due to mischevious heart BP gets boosted priority, so if volbeat doesn't get taken out with a priority move from a faster opponent, it could at least pass one tail glow.

The suggestion was more for the entertaining thought of a volbeat of all things setting up and passing to a sweeper to ruin a team. i'd like to see that battle. =P
 
Articanus said:
Has anyone really talked about the potential of using Taunt on this thing? To me it screams "amazing," because 60/90 defenses aren't terrible once you max out the HP stat. After that just max speed for abusing taunt and you'd be surprised at how many things it now sets up on...

for one, not even Blissey with CM have a chance versus you, which was the only thing that would have stopped them from becoming pure set-up bait. There are probably others, but I can't seem to think of them. Maybe I'm overestimating taunt this generation, but it has been a fabulous move since its release so I'm surprised it's so overlooked.... Just watch out for t-tar. You can always use HP Fighting over one of his STABs if that's an issue, or you can even go 3 attacks + taunt.
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Taunt is a good idea, yeah. However, maybe Blissey will start running Shadow Ball (and possibly some Sp.A. EVs) to beat Shandera and other ghosts/psychics.
 
You know, Shandaraa should go the Mismagius route and go with ONLY Calm Mind as its set up move against opposing others. Behind a Substitute, you have another change to take down another one before going down yourself, which is a strategy that Gengar, Magnezone, and Mismagius employs. You won't have much trouble with Blissey because oh, *ahem* Special Attacks, and you Defense stat is at least fulfilling.
 
I get the feeling that Shanderaa, should it make it to Ubers, is going to be the bottommost part. Most other Ubers have much better defenses (albeit 80 base Defenses allows it to take a hit or two), and 60 base HP is only meh compared to the rest (at least its base HP is higher than Shedinja's, though). 55 base Speed condemns other Pokemon of equal or more potential (Afro Bull) than Shanderaa to lower tiers. I see it functioning in UU best, but otherwise not anywhere higher.

Note also that its movepool is not too diverse. It will need Energy Ball to counter Water, Rock, and Ground Pokemon. Clear Smog is cool for phazing and damaging simultaneously. Most of its other moves are relatively gimmicky.

Shanderaa @ Spell Tag
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Timid/Modest
Moveset:
1. Shadow Ball [Ghost]
2. Energy Ball [Grass]
3. Clear Smog [Poison]
4. Will-o-Wisp [Fire]

Reasons behind Movepool:
1. Shadow Ball for STAB and extra power thanks to Spell Tag.

2. Energy Ball is roughly Shanderaa's only coverage against its weaknesses to Water, Rock, and Ground-types.

3. Clear Smog prevents Shanderaa from being set-up bait.

4. Will-o-Wisp allows it to burn Pokemon while watching them attempt to escape and fail because of Shadow Tag.

If anything, Shadow Tag Clause will solidify Shanderaa's presence in UU, as otherwise trap a Water Pokemon and it is scrwed. Other Shanderaa also cause problems.
 
/B/utterfree said:
I get the feeling that Shanderaa, should it make it to Ubers, is going to be the bottommost part. Most other Ubers have much better defenses (albeit 80 base Defenses allows it to take a hit or two), and 60 base HP is only meh compared to the rest (at least its base HP is higher than Shedinja's, though). 55 base Speed condemns other Pokemon of equal or more potential (Afro Bull) than Shanderaa to lower tiers. I see it functioning in UU best, but otherwise not anywhere higher.

Note also that its movepool is not too diverse. It will need Energy Ball to counter Water, Rock, and Ground Pokemon. Clear Smog is cool for phazing and damaging simultaneously. Most of its other moves are relatively gimmicky.

Shanderaa @ Spell Tag
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Timid/Modest
Moveset:
1. Shadow Ball [Ghost]
2. Energy Ball [Grass]
3. Clear Smog [Poison]
4. Will-o-Wisp [Fire]

Reasons behind Movepool:
1. Shadow Ball for STAB and extra power thanks to Spell Tag.

2. Energy Ball is roughly Shanderaa's only coverage against its weaknesses to Water, Rock, and Ground-types.

3. Clear Smog prevents Shanderaa from being set-up bait.

4. Will-o-Wisp allows it to burn Pokemon while watching them attempt to escape and fail because of Shadow Tag.

If anything, Shadow Tag Clause will solidify Shanderaa's presence in UU, as otherwise trap a Water Pokemon and it is scrwed. Other Shanderaa also cause problems.
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NO!!! this is the most unreasonable post(imo) i've seen so far... y would such an awesome ability that has sent a baby pokemon to ubers only make it to uu? you are dead wrong. there is no rhyperior syndrome here this guy is the real deal... worst case scenario i could see him BL because he is destroyed by a little stealth rocks but do you realize how viscously this thing could punch holes in the opponent. It pretty much guarantees at least 1 kill a round OU(nothing to fear from a standard scizor ez ko). No one has even commented on the potential of actually strategically using memento to get set up to be easier.


Shanderaa is the real deal, but like most pokemon he would value team support like SR going bye bye, But calling him UU? That would completely shock me if that happens.

PS afro bull had no potential compared to shanderaa.
 
Maybe a counter for this thing would be Thick Fat Snorlax with Whirlwind. Well as long as your entry hazards haven't been cleared.
 
Pluvia said:
Maybe a counter for this thing would be Thick Fat Snorlax with Whirlwind. Well as long as your entry hazards haven't been cleared.
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definition of a counter is a pokemon that can switch in safely and kill the opponent. See the problem here? plenty of things can revenge it but very few circumstances would allow for a counter to exist

also one of the less informed idea... pursuiting is the way to go
 
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