Ononokusu's drawback would be being somewhat slow for an offensive pokemon and despite having decent bulk for a sweeper, it's not as good as stuff like Gyarados or Salamence.
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Haxorus
- Thread starter R.B.G.
- Start date
Well, I think im finally set on my bulky Ono. I tweaked around the EV's some more, and settled with 500 speed at a +2, which is probably all it'll ever need. New set:
Ononokusu @Haban Berry/Leftovers/Life Orb/Lum Berry
EV's: 156 HP/100 Atk/174 Def/80 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Taunt/Dragon Tail/Brick Break/Counter
This set finally reached enough damage reduction that I had initially wanted out of the bulky set without sacrificing any of his key points. 2 DD's was always my benchmark for Ono to outspeed it's counters(mainly chomp), but after Gemel's post, I re-did my set, and came out happier then ever with this one. Scizor still hurts, but not as much, and in some cases can be killed back if it hits for minimum with Bullet Punch (44.6-52.7%). Not to mention that my previous sets usually hated any move scizor locked itself into, while this one can actually come in on pursuit locked Scizor, setup 2 DD's, and then destroy it with it's awesome might(leftovers also help in this case).
Edit- Sets stats: 332 HP, 390 Atk, 259 Def, 140 SpAtk, 176 SpDef, 250 Spe
Ononokusu @Haban Berry/Leftovers/Life Orb/Lum Berry
EV's: 156 HP/100 Atk/174 Def/80 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Taunt/Dragon Tail/Brick Break/Counter
This set finally reached enough damage reduction that I had initially wanted out of the bulky set without sacrificing any of his key points. 2 DD's was always my benchmark for Ono to outspeed it's counters(mainly chomp), but after Gemel's post, I re-did my set, and came out happier then ever with this one. Scizor still hurts, but not as much, and in some cases can be killed back if it hits for minimum with Bullet Punch (44.6-52.7%). Not to mention that my previous sets usually hated any move scizor locked itself into, while this one can actually come in on pursuit locked Scizor, setup 2 DD's, and then destroy it with it's awesome might(leftovers also help in this case).
Edit- Sets stats: 332 HP, 390 Atk, 259 Def, 140 SpAtk, 176 SpDef, 250 Spe
@HART4FLOON: It has been discussed how Ono works better than Gyara and Salamence, and also how they work better than it. Ono's huge attack and mono Dragon typing is what stops it from being completely outclassed.
@AxelLow: Keep in mind that Leftovers, if Stealth Rock is not in play, will allow Ono to always survive two Bullet Punches from Scizor. Just an idea. Also, with a set that's meant to take at least one hit, Life Orb defeats the whole purpose. I hadn't thought of Lum Berry, and that could work well, allowing Ono to setup in the face of a Will-o-Wisp or Thunder Wave. I wouldn't suggest Counter on this set, as it's mainly for bouncing back Scizor's Bullet Punch on frailer sets that always take over 50%.
@AxelLow: Keep in mind that Leftovers, if Stealth Rock is not in play, will allow Ono to always survive two Bullet Punches from Scizor. Just an idea. Also, with a set that's meant to take at least one hit, Life Orb defeats the whole purpose. I hadn't thought of Lum Berry, and that could work well, allowing Ono to setup in the face of a Will-o-Wisp or Thunder Wave. I wouldn't suggest Counter on this set, as it's mainly for bouncing back Scizor's Bullet Punch on frailer sets that always take over 50%.
Life Orb was just a random option. Other then that, I'd probably never use it anyway lol (atleast not on Ono). Counter is still not bad in some cases, but probably wont be needed most of the time. Lum Berry was just a spur of the moment thing after I realized that it wouldn't be bad at all in the cases that you mentioned. It can also help with curing away the confusion from Outrage.
But yea, I agree with most of what you said.
But yea, I agree with most of what you said.
Now that I think of it, Lum Berry would be tremendously useful with Outrage. But the locking effect really isn't nice, and I think, at least on a set that boosts its speed, that Dragon Claw would be better. Once you start 'raging, the opponent could switch to a steel and laugh at you. I realize that this is meant to be a late-game sweeper, but Outraging could be the end of its sweep. Also, if it's a late-game sweeper, then the extra power shouldn't be necessary; the opponent's team should be weakened a little before attempting to sweep.
EDIT: What would be some good teammates for Ono? They should mainly revolve around taking out Skarm, Ono's worst enemy, and other physical walls Ono may encounter. I've been thinking about Shanderaa, to trap and KO Skarm, but it's susceptible to Pursuit, so can you guys think of some others? Tyraniboah or BaitTar might work too, KOing with Flamethower or Thunderbolt.
EDIT: What would be some good teammates for Ono? They should mainly revolve around taking out Skarm, Ono's worst enemy, and other physical walls Ono may encounter. I've been thinking about Shanderaa, to trap and KO Skarm, but it's susceptible to Pursuit, so can you guys think of some others? Tyraniboah or BaitTar might work too, KOing with Flamethower or Thunderbolt.
Anything that can cover his counters, and checks make great partners. Shanderra has always been a great answer with shadow tag, and Heatran still retains its usefulness to dragons. Pairing Ono off with another dragon can assist them in their sweeps, and still make a troublesome duo for most (since two dragons are even worse then one). Tyranitar makes for a good partner to pursuit trap things like Starmie, and Latias, while Scizor, despite being our worst enemy, is our best friend as well. Scizor alone helps check low health mence, and can also pursuit trap Latias. Scizors Superpower is also useful. A Jolly Shell Break Cloyster wont be a bad partner as well since it'll be able to come in on a scarfchomp after it kills one of your pokes(and that it's locked in EQ). It'll be able to take the EQ, Shell Break, then take out the chomp, and possibly net a few other K.O's. Speaking of ScarfChomp, it alone can make a great partner to Ono, generally covering most of it's problems because it trolls most of the scarfers that plague Ono with its 102 speed.
To me, Ononokusu needs Taunt in order for it to not be outclassed as a Dragon. And even with Dragon Dance, it has serious issues.
Best set, IMO, would be this:
[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Outrage
move 4: Earthquake
ability: Mold Breaker
item: Life Orb
nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
The first step is to Swords Dance on the switch, then follow up with Taunt. Skarmory is either crippled severely or dead at the worst case scenario. To be honest, I only see Ononokusu as a wall-breaker, and nothing more outside of that. Dragon Dance is just too damn slow in general (hello all those new Speed Pokemon) and it lacks the movepool to stop Skarmory from raping it in general. Well, at least Bronzong gets fucked over by Mold Breaker.
Definitely not a terrible Pokemon by any means, but it's short-handed. Then again, Garchomp just got trolled, so Ononokusu isn't the only Pokemon that has bad luck.
Best set, IMO, would be this:
[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Outrage
move 4: Earthquake
ability: Mold Breaker
item: Life Orb
nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
The first step is to Swords Dance on the switch, then follow up with Taunt. Skarmory is either crippled severely or dead at the worst case scenario. To be honest, I only see Ononokusu as a wall-breaker, and nothing more outside of that. Dragon Dance is just too damn slow in general (hello all those new Speed Pokemon) and it lacks the movepool to stop Skarmory from raping it in general. Well, at least Bronzong gets fucked over by Mold Breaker.
Definitely not a terrible Pokemon by any means, but it's short-handed. Then again, Garchomp just got trolled, so Ononokusu isn't the only Pokemon that has bad luck.
to almost every one posting please stop underestimating Ono. And stop comparing it to other dragon. Its very ilogical since he is total different from every other dragon and one of the most unique dragon in the game!!!!! It make sense when comparing it to gyara aka the most solid threats ever existed but comparing to sala is stupid since sala is betetr mixing anyway. sala is forced to outrage rotom while ono dont. And no its not overhyping that happen with ono since unlike rampard or Perior this thing has no really big drawback sunch as abbysmal speed or anything whatsoever. hes bulk
isnt that bad too.
isnt that bad too.
He's less specially bulky than Infernape and you're telling me he has no big drawback? His physical bulk is almost that of Salamence even without Intimidate. He doesn't get a Fire-type move, which no matter what you say Taunt does not make up for, and while the lack of an additional typing helps him by not giving him a 4x weakness, he also doesn't have the added resistances and STAB which more than make up for no 4x Ice weakness. You can't tell us not to compare him to other Dragon-types, then go off and talk about two Pokemon who only share the Mold Breaker ability and high attack stats.
Depends on where the earthquake is coming from. Vice versa if Magnezone gets placed with a fire attack, and has nothing else to worry about from the opposing poke, then Ono can possibly come in. Bulky Ono sets may not care for the EQ as well, but once again, it depends on where it's coming from.
Any thought for a Bulky DDancer? Ono has no quad weakness, no need for 252 attack evs, and useable bulk to pull of a DDance or two.
A bulky Dragon Dancer has been discussed, if you would just read the thread...
@Colonel M: The SD+Taunt set is a great one, but if you look at the sets that other posters have contributed, you will see that they utilize Ono's huge attack very well, and the Dragon Dance sets outspeed almost everything but scarfers (and Ono can beat most of them), and KOs almost everything after 2 DDs. Ono's use of Taunt has been discussed and is probably the best attack on the DD sets; other moves have been proposed simply to theorymon their effectiveness.
@Colonel M: The SD+Taunt set is a great one, but if you look at the sets that other posters have contributed, you will see that they utilize Ono's huge attack very well, and the Dragon Dance sets outspeed almost everything but scarfers (and Ono can beat most of them), and KOs almost everything after 2 DDs. Ono's use of Taunt has been discussed and is probably the best attack on the DD sets; other moves have been proposed simply to theorymon their effectiveness.
I think the bulkish set with Taunt + DD will set it apart as a Dragon.
Base 97 speed with a DD under its belt is still pretty darn fast.
Taunt will block any uncool ways of stopping it such as status or Whirwind while Mold Breaker will get you past Levitators.
You'll basically *have* to revenge it by being faster and hitting hard enough.
The list of stuff faster than a +1 Ononokusu is not really that long though they're pretty common and useful.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the metagame; our initial predictions have sometimes been off.
Base 97 speed with a DD under its belt is still pretty darn fast.
Taunt will block any uncool ways of stopping it such as status or Whirwind while Mold Breaker will get you past Levitators.
You'll basically *have* to revenge it by being faster and hitting hard enough.
The list of stuff faster than a +1 Ononokusu is not really that long though they're pretty common and useful.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the metagame; our initial predictions have sometimes been off.
I was thinking, for the bulky DD Ono, does anyone else think dragon tail is better than taunt? I mean, if they bring out a phazer you can potentially phaze them before they phaze you, while also dealing a chunk of damage to said phazer. If you have any spikes or SR on the field, the shuffling does help. Between coming in on repeated SR/spikes (depending on the phazer, as some would be hampered less) and getting hit with +1 or +2 dragon tails, they would eventually get worn out and be unable to phaze.
Of course, taunt stops this outright and the 90 accuracy is off-putting, however forcing the switches while damaging the phazer itself does mean you get more potential free turns to DD again or attack and dent something badly on entry, not to mention passive damage from your team setting up spikes/toxic spikes/SR.
Of course, taunt stops this outright and the 90 accuracy is off-putting, however forcing the switches while damaging the phazer itself does mean you get more potential free turns to DD again or attack and dent something badly on entry, not to mention passive damage from your team setting up spikes/toxic spikes/SR.
Ononokusu is still too easy to revenge kill with Scarf users in general, and with the new Speed boosted Pokemon, it's only going to cause more problems for it. There is, perhaps, only one way I would even -attempt- to pull a Dragon Dance. The condition was if I used Yache Berry behind it, as Haban fails to absorb enough damage to leave it into KO range (Garchomp has a high chance of KOing it after Stealth Rock + Sandstorm damage). Scarf Latios and Latias will likely be abundant as well.
Regardless, the best way to possibly pull off Dragon Dance is with a Yache Berry attached. Life Orb Starmie does 51.5% - 60.8% to Ononokusu, which gives him some breathing space. +1 Gyarados does slightly more; 55.3% - 65.2%. You also need Jolly to not be outsped by mole in the sand after two Dragon Dances.
And then what? Ononokusu is still raped by priority, at +1 Speed it's good, but it's still under par for what the new stuff has for Speed and they simply could run a Scarf too. The more Attack you sacrifice, the more KOes that -could- be missed. Honestly, you'd have to tell me why I'd use Ononokusu as my Dragon Dancer over Salamence which boasts more defenses with Intimidate, has access to going Mixed with Dragon Dance, and outspeeds or ties more Pokemon than Ononokusu does.
In general, you are going to use Ononokusu for two things so that it is not outclassed. The first is the Choice Band set, and the second is the Swords Dance set with Taunt. Dragon Dance is just cursed with a lot of problems. It's not bad, but it's definitely not something to give much praise to either. Scarf has a lot of it's problems of being cursed with other Dragon-type Pokemon outclassing it as well with their slightly higher Speed or extra coverage moves.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Ononokusu is bad in general, it just has a lot of weak points (literally) to make up as well. It's a cool stall breaker since Garchomp can't brag cockblocking Whirlwind / Roar from Skarmory and Hippowdon, but Garchomp after a Swords Dance is still pretty beastly and boasts a Sandstorm immunity as well, not to mention it isn't outsped by something simple like Salamence.
Against half (well, not exactly half, but probably closer to like 40%) of the Pokemon that you will face, Ononokusu will lose power. Especially if it actually becomes a threat in the metagame, competent battlers aren't going to be negligent enough to leave all of their gendered Pokemon as male.
Rivalry has a chance to cut your Attack on female Pokemon, which leaves it "unreliable" at best. Mold Breaker pierces more than just Bronzong: Rotom formes are another, which at best doesn't force you into an early Outrage. You also don't want to be forced to lose Attack from Cresselia, for example.
Mold Breaker is just there moreso for reliability... and Bronzong. You can count Weezing too if it'll ever exist.
It doesn't matter if Ono goes SD, or DD since it'll do well with either. If anything, he can't go mixed DD, and looking for a mixed DD'er can obviously be found somewhere else. It wont be outclassed in much of anything that it can do since it'll have atleast one or two perks over others that can make for more then a preference for some.
While other things can obviously outspeed because of its 97 speed, you can simply make up for it if you ran a bulkier DD set. The bulkier DD sets dont fear much of any priority attacks, even coming from the likes of CB Scizor. At a reasonably good amount of health, scizor may retain it's 2HKO possibilites, but leftovers can help warrant a living Ono (and that SR is out of the way).
The reason Haban berry is more useful then anything is because of the scarfed dragons that'll be running around in the beginning. Bulky Ono sets will survive a Draco Meteor from Latias with SR not on the field, and can stop chomp from doing ridiculous damage as well. Sazando's Draco meteor can be damped as well. Even though that Sazando, and Latias will obviously work better revenging it when not at the +2 DD marker is because they're hitting on his none defensive side (which, not even Yachi can do anything about when it comes to Ice attacks).
Im not sure what you mean about the Gyarados thing since even if Gyara got a boost to his special attack, any Ono not running with some HP stats only take around 55-59% with Yachi, and take even less from Hydro Pump. Unless you meant stone Edge? Because Stone Edge would be the only extremely damaging thing that would come from Gyara after a +1 Atk Boost, which bulky sets can live through and K.O back.
I haven't looked into the SD sets much, mostly because I dont like to use SD, but DD sets are still functional in various cases with Ono.
While other things can obviously outspeed because of its 97 speed, you can simply make up for it if you ran a bulkier DD set. The bulkier DD sets dont fear much of any priority attacks, even coming from the likes of CB Scizor. At a reasonably good amount of health, scizor may retain it's 2HKO possibilites, but leftovers can help warrant a living Ono (and that SR is out of the way).
The reason Haban berry is more useful then anything is because of the scarfed dragons that'll be running around in the beginning. Bulky Ono sets will survive a Draco Meteor from Latias with SR not on the field, and can stop chomp from doing ridiculous damage as well. Sazando's Draco meteor can be damped as well. Even though that Sazando, and Latias will obviously work better revenging it when not at the +2 DD marker is because they're hitting on his none defensive side (which, not even Yachi can do anything about when it comes to Ice attacks).
Im not sure what you mean about the Gyarados thing since even if Gyara got a boost to his special attack, any Ono not running with some HP stats only take around 55-59% with Yachi, and take even less from Hydro Pump. Unless you meant stone Edge? Because Stone Edge would be the only extremely damaging thing that would come from Gyara after a +1 Atk Boost, which bulky sets can live through and K.O back.
I haven't looked into the SD sets much, mostly because I dont like to use SD, but DD sets are still functional in various cases with Ono.
You probably didn't even read my post.