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In-Game Tier List Discussion
- Thread starter Colonel M
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Wow, why is Kurimiru so low on the list? You get him with two great STABs (Razor Leaf and Bug Bite) and he can take a hit. Not only that, but she can destroy your rivals with that combination, taking down their Janopi/Futachimaru, Hiyappu/Yanappu, Belle's Munna and Cheren's Leparasudu. In the 30s, it's attacks start becoming weak, but when you get Leaf Blade at lv. 36, which is about the same time you get the X-Scissor TM, it'll get pretty powerful. Evolving it isn't really difficult (mine evolved at lv. 26!). The only reason I wouldn't give it a High tier rating is because of its typing and meh type coverage. However, he did manage to survive fire/flying attacks before, which means it isn't fragile as heck.
Fushide should be higher too. Mid, maybe, since he isn't as easy to train as Kurumiru, but Pendoraa is arguably better than Hahakurimo. You can get STAB Poison Jab from TM and Megahorn with a Heart Scale, making him really powerful. Add in Smooth Over, so you can cover Rock/Steel types.
Fushide should be higher too. Mid, maybe, since he isn't as easy to train as Kurumiru, but Pendoraa is arguably better than Hahakurimo. You can get STAB Poison Jab from TM and Megahorn with a Heart Scale, making him really powerful. Add in Smooth Over, so you can cover Rock/Steel types.
I would say that Denchura and its pre-evo probably deserve to be mid/mid-high in the rankings. An electric/bug combination, coupled with the chance to level up almost immediately at the flying-type gym, in addition to compoundeyes and all the electric TMs and X-scissor (does it learn X-scissor, actually?) make it a great in-game choice. (not to mention that it covers the flying-type gym and the psychic E-4 member).
Here's some more suggestions:
#1:
Backing up Squid Ninja, Futasade needs to be bumped up, IMO. You can get it fairly early, and while getting it to lv 19 is a bit of a pain [Even then, just kill Cherine/Monmen/Grass/Bug things to level], after it hits that point, it becomes quite the powerhouse for that stage in the game. It's a lifesaver agaist the 3rd Gym, being Super Effective against the Grass/Bug, and being x4 Resistant to it's Grass STAB, and x2 to Bug. That alone speaks volumes.
And, considering mine went from Lv 20 -> 22 after beating the Grass/Bug, you now have an evolved version on your hands, which is even stronger, and bulkier. Then, at lv 30, you get Pendorra.
To top it all off, Pendorra is great against the Elite 4. Strong against the Dark types, Outspeeds and kills the Psychics too, while provideing a x4 resistance to Fighting. Both X-Scizzor and Megahorn are viable. There's not really a gym where he's dead weight either, with Base 112 Speed, he can at least get a hit in, even against the Flying-type gym.
Pendorra is unquestionably better than Minezumi.
#2:
I feel that Munna needs to be bumped down a teir. While it's useful early-game, even if you evolve it, it just proves less and less useful as the game goes on, Mono-Psychic is not fun, especially with the fairly high number of Dark types thrown around in B/W [Team Plasma and Crocodile line...] Likewise, aside from put things to sleep, is there much else Munna can do? Not really.
I'm at the 3rd gym in my current game, with Musharana, and I'm feeling it isn't pulling it's weight, and I'm considering replaceing it with Yurian, just for the coverage <_<
As for Yuniran, at least he gets some methords to hurt Dark-types while leveling up. Munna is HELPLESS. If you're packing Munna, and your team goes down against the Dark E-4 member [Or the Ghost... or the hacked Dark/Dragon] you're in for a world of hurt.
#3:
I think the cat should be Bottom Teir. Seriously. It's a pain to train at the levels when you get it, due to no STAB, when everything else has STAB. [Not to mention Non STAB Tackle now has now BP than Scratch...]
You have to wait until Level 15 to get Persuit, a Base 40 STAB. And it has to make do with Assurance until level 43 if you evolve it. Lack of decent STAB moves at justifyable levels kills this cat, and the meh stats [besides speed] REALLY drum the nails in it's coffin.
#1:
Backing up Squid Ninja, Futasade needs to be bumped up, IMO. You can get it fairly early, and while getting it to lv 19 is a bit of a pain [Even then, just kill Cherine/Monmen/Grass/Bug things to level], after it hits that point, it becomes quite the powerhouse for that stage in the game. It's a lifesaver agaist the 3rd Gym, being Super Effective against the Grass/Bug, and being x4 Resistant to it's Grass STAB, and x2 to Bug. That alone speaks volumes.
And, considering mine went from Lv 20 -> 22 after beating the Grass/Bug, you now have an evolved version on your hands, which is even stronger, and bulkier. Then, at lv 30, you get Pendorra.
To top it all off, Pendorra is great against the Elite 4. Strong against the Dark types, Outspeeds and kills the Psychics too, while provideing a x4 resistance to Fighting. Both X-Scizzor and Megahorn are viable. There's not really a gym where he's dead weight either, with Base 112 Speed, he can at least get a hit in, even against the Flying-type gym.
Pendorra is unquestionably better than Minezumi.
#2:
I feel that Munna needs to be bumped down a teir. While it's useful early-game, even if you evolve it, it just proves less and less useful as the game goes on, Mono-Psychic is not fun, especially with the fairly high number of Dark types thrown around in B/W [Team Plasma and Crocodile line...] Likewise, aside from put things to sleep, is there much else Munna can do? Not really.
I'm at the 3rd gym in my current game, with Musharana, and I'm feeling it isn't pulling it's weight, and I'm considering replaceing it with Yurian, just for the coverage <_<
As for Yuniran, at least he gets some methords to hurt Dark-types while leveling up. Munna is HELPLESS. If you're packing Munna, and your team goes down against the Dark E-4 member [Or the Ghost... or the hacked Dark/Dragon] you're in for a world of hurt.
#3:
I think the cat should be Bottom Teir. Seriously. It's a pain to train at the levels when you get it, due to no STAB, when everything else has STAB. [Not to mention Non STAB Tackle now has now BP than Scratch...]
You have to wait until Level 15 to get Persuit, a Base 40 STAB. And it has to make do with Assurance until level 43 if you evolve it. Lack of decent STAB moves at justifyable levels kills this cat, and the meh stats [besides speed] REALLY drum the nails in it's coffin.
I didn't say it was top tier material, but it certainly deserves to be higher than lower-mid.
"Babying" is much less of an issue this generation in general with the Lucky Egg around. And might I add that the Denchura line is also only available after the 5th badge, yet it's sitting nicely in the Upper-Mid tier (which is probably where Hitomoshi belongs). It also helps that the Hitomoshi line absolutely rapes the 7th Gym, seriously there's no way you won't reach level 41 coming out of that Gym. And how many Pokemon can immediately go from a basic to a stage 2 evolution, without sacrificing any level-up moves?
Not to mention it destroys 3 members of the E4.
Umm what?
See my response to the guy above. By level 36 you should be able to take on the 7th Gym comfortably, and babying is much less of an issue this generation IMO. And we both know its stats aren't worse than Magikarp's. 65 Base Special Attack is very decent on a 3-stage pre-evo.
If anything the post is just hinting the Elec Spider to go down a tier again, which I probably might agree to anyway. The candle does great against... 7th Gym after bolstering itself a lot of levels and... then...
Yeah I'm just probably going to lower the Spider. Unless someone else has something to say on either of them.
Fushide and Kurumiru. Hm. Fushide I might buy Mid Tier, and Kurumiru... not sure. A better compromise with Kurumiru might involve lowering the Chipmunk, though I think Fushide is okay. It learns Rock Slide, which helps vs. the Flying-type and Ice-type Gyms. Its 112 Speed is pretty balling, but the 90 base Atk is definitely suspect. Anything to outspeed Nigslammer though.
Perhaps more positive feedback from Kurumiru, but I'll rise Fushide and drop Chipmunk to Lower Mid for now. Seems like a fair compromise until I look at Kurumiru further (before you bark at me, remember that it only has one real Gym advantage: The 5th Gym leader. It barely has leverage on the third IMO since Ishizumai can just toss a boulder at you). Fushide has at least two Gym advantages with Rock Slide in its tow, and I'm willing to be it's "okay" aside from that. Still skeptical, but I'll place it in Mid.
More discussion on Candle too. I agree with Unholy, but I'll let other Candle supporters have a chance.
EDIT: Forgot Muuna and that Cat thing. Yeah. Dropping both.
Any final comments with the Monkeys too? I think they should lower, maybe have the Water one a tier higher than both.
Yeah I'm just probably going to lower the Spider. Unless someone else has something to say on either of them.
Fushide and Kurumiru. Hm. Fushide I might buy Mid Tier, and Kurumiru... not sure. A better compromise with Kurumiru might involve lowering the Chipmunk, though I think Fushide is okay. It learns Rock Slide, which helps vs. the Flying-type and Ice-type Gyms. Its 112 Speed is pretty balling, but the 90 base Atk is definitely suspect. Anything to outspeed Nigslammer though.
Perhaps more positive feedback from Kurumiru, but I'll rise Fushide and drop Chipmunk to Lower Mid for now. Seems like a fair compromise until I look at Kurumiru further (before you bark at me, remember that it only has one real Gym advantage: The 5th Gym leader. It barely has leverage on the third IMO since Ishizumai can just toss a boulder at you). Fushide has at least two Gym advantages with Rock Slide in its tow, and I'm willing to be it's "okay" aside from that. Still skeptical, but I'll place it in Mid.
More discussion on Candle too. I agree with Unholy, but I'll let other Candle supporters have a chance.
EDIT: Forgot Muuna and that Cat thing. Yeah. Dropping both.
Any final comments with the Monkeys too? I think they should lower, maybe have the Water one a tier higher than both.
I also really like kurimugan. It shows up as high as level 33 at the Dragon Spiral Tower, which is pretty damn high even compared to your team at the time. With Dragon Claw and Crunch, it can easily kill the other pokemon at the Tower and level up easily as well.
It gets access to the Dig TM, giving it fantastic Dragon/Ground coverage, and in a few levels gets Revenge for epic Dragon/Fighting or Dark/Fighting coverage, along with a huge ATK stat and great typing. A fantastic late-game add on to the team!
It gets access to the Dig TM, giving it fantastic Dragon/Ground coverage, and in a few levels gets Revenge for epic Dragon/Fighting or Dark/Fighting coverage, along with a huge ATK stat and great typing. A fantastic late-game add on to the team!
And then against 3/4 of the E4.
I agree that the two belong in the same tier, you get them at practically the same time, and having used both I'd say they're about equal overall.
Question: are these in-game tiers only considering the pre-E4 journey? Because like 1/3 of the map is left unexplored after the E4, which is a significant portion of in-game, much more so than in DPPt. If these in-game tiers extend to this post-E4 journey, I really think Denchura and Shanderra belong in High. Otherwise they should be in Upper Mid.
Also Terrakon should definitely be lower than the other two. You get Kobaron and Birijion after the 6th badge, while the soonest you get Terrakon is literally like 10 steps from the E4, at which point it's 8-10 levels lower than the Pokemon you'll encounter.
Wait how is it good against 3/4 of the E4? It's good against the Psychic and Ghost-type one... and obviously gets destroyed by the Dark-one. Don't see how it's very good against the Fighting-type either. My guess is Rohpushin and Nageki have Guts, and they all have a Rock-type move in their movepool. Kojondo has to be faster (80 vs. 105).
But, there is the point where he completely thrashes N by himself, which is no small feat. It can use Cheer Up on Reshiram and Zekrom then just plow through. By the way, both of the legendary Fighting duo don't handle Reshiram well and Birijion has to be faster than Archaeos (though to be fair Abagoora could Aqua Jet Terrakion). If you're playing Black, then I concede to Kobaruan being the best sweeper for N.
Geechisu is pretty much reliant on these three too because of Nigslammer (Sazandora) being one of the biggest threats on his team (honestly, the rest are pretty mediocre or joke-ish).
Can Terrakion drop? Yeah, probably. Would it drop far? At worst... a tier perhaps. *Shrugs*.
It opens a big can of worms, but I'm indifferent to it. I don't see how much it changes Shanderra significantly all of a sudden but...
Due to Terrakon actually being good, it has a good chance of leveling up within the Dark E4 member. I doubt it'll reach Swords Dance, but even then Cheer Up is "good enough". X-Scissor / Rock Slide / Sacred Sword / Cheer Up lets it do enough damage in the E4. Psychic E4 I admit is the iffiest one here, but it at least stands a chance past Rankurusu. 91 | 90 HP | SpD probably would allow it to stomach ONE Psychic, but I'm not going to really say anything until I actually try it. So it has 1 and a half on performance, at least handling Shanderra, then of course being bad elsewhere.
But, there is the point where he completely thrashes N by himself, which is no small feat. It can use Cheer Up on Reshiram and Zekrom then just plow through. By the way, both of the legendary Fighting duo don't handle Reshiram well and Birijion has to be faster than Archaeos (though to be fair Abagoora could Aqua Jet Terrakion). If you're playing Black, then I concede to Kobaruan being the best sweeper for N.
Geechisu is pretty much reliant on these three too because of Nigslammer (Sazandora) being one of the biggest threats on his team (honestly, the rest are pretty mediocre or joke-ish).
Can Terrakion drop? Yeah, probably. Would it drop far? At worst... a tier perhaps. *Shrugs*.
Hahakurimo has superb attack and superb attacks. Leaf Blade, X-Scissor, and Shadow Claw by TM (+ Swords Dance by level) allowed me to sweep 3 elite four members (dark and psychic are a bit obvious; ghost was setup on desukan+Full restore). It also does well against N's Sazando or whatever due to STAB and SE with X-Scissor (This explains why I had no trouble with it lol). Otherwise its prevoes are no weaklings either, IMO
To put it simply Fushide and Kurumiru > all starting bugs in every other game by very, very much; they shouldn't be underestimated.
I guess mine was quite overleveled, Shadow Ball was OHKOing everything pretty much (Spell Tag also helped) and I outsped even Kojondo.
Even still, 2/4 is pretty useful. But I'm not gonna push the matter any further, it really doesn't matter that much at the end of the day.
You raise some good points, and honestly my remark about Terrakion was more out of initial surprise that he was tiered similarly to the other two. I guess it doesn't matter that the other two would be several levels higher Terrakion, it's still a good Pokemon in its own right in the final part of the game. But then again most people will want their teams finalized more than ten steps before challenging the E4...whatever.
After looking at the list, I've built a team around it:
Mijumaru
Aaken
Moguryuu
Dageki
Hitomoshi (not the most recommended one, but the incredible amount of supporters makes me want to pick it)
?
So, which Pokemon will best fill in my team? There are some which I've seen that are interesting:
Zebra
ElectroBug
Munna
Ice Cream
Mijumaru
Aaken
Moguryuu
Dageki
Hitomoshi (not the most recommended one, but the incredible amount of supporters makes me want to pick it)
?
So, which Pokemon will best fill in my team? There are some which I've seen that are interesting:
Zebra
ElectroBug
Munna
Ice Cream
I agree. High tier for the water monkey, mid/upper mid for the other 2.
If you pick the electric bug your team will have four of the same members as mine. Whatever you pick, don't use the Zebra. It dies to everything.
Are you sure? I have been told many tiems that you can get the Meraruba egg as soona s you get teh surf hm.
Yes, you'll have to backtrack to Kanoko Town (although you'll have Fly by then) and go through Routes 17 and 18. I did this after the E4, but considering the trainer's levels, you could do it right after getting Surf.
So I'm guessing this makes Meraruba tier-able, right? Just don't expect many good results with it until he evolves at lv. 59 (!!!).
I think that Yooterii should be in top tier. It gets Take Down at level 15, which OHKO's about everything early in game. It also evolves at level 16 which is pretty early. It also gets Bite so early, and for me it flinches about every opponent. Once you get it to evolve i promise you it will last through out the whole game.
I have just beaten the flying gym, and this is my impressions as of now:
Emboar
Pokabu was VERY useful early in the game. It had high attack, ok Sp. A and a passable speed. I got to Chaobuu very quickly (Evolved in the first cave because I looked for a Moguryu) and it kicked ass with Nitro Charge/Arm Thrust. Grinded a bit in the Electric Rock Cave and got to the last stage. This is an extremely solid choice for a Fire-type and it have helped me countless times.
Kokoromori
I caught Koromori in the first cave and with Confusion/Gust/Assurance it could plow right through everything in the cave. Getting to Kokoromori was not so bad (evolved at lvl 26 IIRC), but it died a lot before that. When it got to it's final form it was seriously good and it learns some GREAT moves (Mine currently have Acrobat/Heart Stamp/Fly/Charge Beam and I really hope I can get Psychic soon). It have fallen a bit in usefulness, but I will keep it anyway.
Doryuuzu
This Pokemon was a bitch to catch in the first cave (I searched for half an hour or so), but it was really good for the next 15 levels, but it was a bit bad right before evolution. When it evolved it started to kick ass. 135 Attack is nothing to scoff at.
Erufuun
With Growth/Leech Seed/Stun Spore/Mega-Giga Drain, Big Root and good defences this piece of fluff is very useful. The only bad thing about this that I could think of is that it doesn't get Sleep Powder, which is a bummer.
Zuruzukin
I just love this Pokemon. 65/115/115 defences and 90 in Attack is just fabulous. It also have Faint Attack when you catch it + it gets Brick Break at level 20, but when it gets Hi Jump Kick at level 31 is when it really starts to tear things apart. Mine is a physical version with Overconfidence, but I've also tried Shed Skin + Rest which is just as good. It really just depend on what you think is best, I guess.
Abagoora
This guy have helped me out a lot. When I was at the 5th gym it single-handidly took out the Gym Leader thanks to his first Pokemon using Swagger twice. It starts with Crunch and Aqua Jet which isn't half bad, and it learns some good moves via leveling.
Emboar
Pokabu was VERY useful early in the game. It had high attack, ok Sp. A and a passable speed. I got to Chaobuu very quickly (Evolved in the first cave because I looked for a Moguryu) and it kicked ass with Nitro Charge/Arm Thrust. Grinded a bit in the Electric Rock Cave and got to the last stage. This is an extremely solid choice for a Fire-type and it have helped me countless times.
Kokoromori
I caught Koromori in the first cave and with Confusion/Gust/Assurance it could plow right through everything in the cave. Getting to Kokoromori was not so bad (evolved at lvl 26 IIRC), but it died a lot before that. When it got to it's final form it was seriously good and it learns some GREAT moves (Mine currently have Acrobat/Heart Stamp/Fly/Charge Beam and I really hope I can get Psychic soon). It have fallen a bit in usefulness, but I will keep it anyway.
Doryuuzu
This Pokemon was a bitch to catch in the first cave (I searched for half an hour or so), but it was really good for the next 15 levels, but it was a bit bad right before evolution. When it evolved it started to kick ass. 135 Attack is nothing to scoff at.
Erufuun
With Growth/Leech Seed/Stun Spore/Mega-Giga Drain, Big Root and good defences this piece of fluff is very useful. The only bad thing about this that I could think of is that it doesn't get Sleep Powder, which is a bummer.
Zuruzukin
I just love this Pokemon. 65/115/115 defences and 90 in Attack is just fabulous. It also have Faint Attack when you catch it + it gets Brick Break at level 20, but when it gets Hi Jump Kick at level 31 is when it really starts to tear things apart. Mine is a physical version with Overconfidence, but I've also tried Shed Skin + Rest which is just as good. It really just depend on what you think is best, I guess.
Abagoora
This guy have helped me out a lot. When I was at the 5th gym it single-handidly took out the Gym Leader thanks to his first Pokemon using Swagger twice. It starts with Crunch and Aqua Jet which isn't half bad, and it learns some good moves via leveling.
Purotooga should be moved up a tier. He comes with aqua jet, which covers his abysmal speed, and crunch, which is really powerful for how early you get him; the rock tomb TM is also a short distance away, so he has a great moveset pretty much out of the box. Also, you get him at level 25, which is pretty high for that time period. And his high defense helps act as meat-shield when needed to heal your pokemon during the tougher fights. Oh, and let's not forget that the water type selection is pretty crappy in this region.
His only real downside is the lack of a strong physical water move until the waterfall HM or he reaches level 45 and gets aqua tail. That, and he has to compete with the water starter or the water monkey if you picked the grass starter. But for people who went with Pokabu, he's a great addition.
His only real downside is the lack of a strong physical water move until the waterfall HM or he reaches level 45 and gets aqua tail. That, and he has to compete with the water starter or the water monkey if you picked the grass starter. But for people who went with Pokabu, he's a great addition.
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