well that helps, but for the battles that is true for ditto won't be seeing much if any sweeping action
and woo 500 posts about ditto!
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Ditto
- Thread starter Emperor
- Start date
well that helps, but for the battles that is true for ditto won't be seeing much if any sweeping action
and woo 500 posts about ditto!
Finally i found my personal anti-Ditto.
Quagsire@Leftovers
Unaware - +Def -Atk 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
-Toxic
-Haze
-Recover
-Ice Beam/Protect
Ice beam is for shut down my Salamence.
It works well for any setupper anyway.
Quagsire@Leftovers
Unaware - +Def -Atk 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
-Toxic
-Haze
-Recover
-Ice Beam/Protect
Ice beam is for shut down my Salamence.
It works well for any setupper anyway.
Finally i found my personal anti-Ditto.
Quagsire@Leftovers
Unaware - +Def -Atk 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def
-Toxic
-Haze
-Recover
-Ice Beam/Protect
Ice beam is for shut down my Salamence.
It works well for any setupper anyway.
Pretty gimicky but Unaware Quagsire seems to be a pretty good anti Ditto Pokemon since it can deal with many things ditto loves to copy atm (Blaziken, Mence, Dory just to name a few)
i dont see the use of Haze and Toxic though as you could just use moves to counter some of your own Pokes like EQ and Boiling water, but i dont know your team so i think everyone can tailor its own move set depending on his team.
Ditto is an excellent revenge killer, no doubt about that, but he needn't be so one-dimensional. If you're ballsy, he can function as a check to a lot of big threats thanks to the 'Trace-like' qualities of Eccentric. You can come in on the likes of Heatran, Jolteon, Flygon, Vaporeon etc and use their own ability to block their primary attack. You can come in on Pokemon with Intimidate and cut their Attack, or get in on a SubSeeding Erufuun and Taunt/Encore it to force it out. You can trap Magnezone/Dugtrio and give them a piece of their own medicine. If you mispredict and get paralysed or burned, you can switch in on Blissey/Celebi, acquire Natural Cure, and switch back out. There are hundreds of different uses for Eccentric. Revenge killing is likely the best use, but don't limit yourself to just that.
Yeah, ditto is so freaking awesome that way. Once I got into a stall war between my Rankurusu (Teddy Bear rotom) plus Ditto and his Mamanbou (the pink heart fish) plus Pre-evo stone Chancey.
My Rankuruse had magic guard, so it could switch in and out all day long. His chancey had natural cure and his fish had regeneration. So when my ditto needed health, I turn into his fish and spam toxic at his team. When my ditto got toxic'd, I turn into Chancey to cure my poison. So that way, it lasted forever, so I just quit mid way.
Another funny story that happened with my Ditto is that I transformed into a Sand Throw Sandslash and EQ'd through his team. Until his last poke, which was the dark flying vulture. Him, predicting a switch decides to use knock-off to remove the item of my switch in. But I don't switch and he knocks off my choice scarf. So then my ditto Stone Edge the vulture to death. lol
I don't really see Blissey as havoc-causing at any time. She's a wall, she can't really do much offensively. Plus, you've just gotten a look at her moveset, so you know what you can freely bring in. Does it have toxic? Bring in a steel type. T-wave? Bring in a ground type or another electric immune. Scouting the moveset will pretty much allow you a decent chance at a free switch-in.
Here's something: Could Ditto be a Pokemon that is technically OU, but allowed on all tiers? If I use an Eccentric Ditto in NU, my Ditto will be transforming into other NU pokemon, which is perfectly legal. My point is, I don't think Ditto will be broken in NU or UU, because when it transforms, it will transform into other NU or UU pokemon. It has the same potential as other UU and NU pokemon, and is used as the same purpose as as it would in OU, but it would not do it's job any better, because the pokemon it is replicating in the lower tiers are worse.
No - the fact that Ditto will likely not be broken in UU or NU will have no impact on his tiering. People play UU or NU to avoid the 'same old faces' that inhabit OU so it would be completely ridiculous to allow Ditto, a Pokemon who will probably be very near the top of the usage charts. UU and NU are decided by usage, it's that simple really.
Wobbuffet is pretty much equally powerful in all tiers, because its function is exactly as powerful no matter what tier you use it in. That doesn't stop it from being Uber.
That's not true. If you have the offensive ability to just smash through your opponents, Wobbuffet is much less useful, and average offensive ability is much higher in higher tiers.
^Most Pokemon can't smash through 584 HP without boosting their stats significantly, and most stat moves get Encored. Wobbuffet performs fine in Ubers.
Wobbuffet performs fine in Ubers, but it was never broken in Ubers.
Agreed. That is where Wobbuffet belongs. In other tiers, it's broken, even in Gen V.
Then you went right over my head. What is your point?
Wobb being broken in Gen V is merely my opinion, and I should have stated it as such. Pay it no heed.
is it fun oppinion time?
Well Wob is broken from what i see, Gen 4 or no Gen 4.
Well anyway...I just fucking love how the sheer presence of Ditto makes all the big scary uncounterable Set up sweepers of Ubers piss their pants :D.I mean there are basicly no set up'ers in "Ubers" right now.
Well Wob is broken from what i see, Gen 4 or no Gen 4.
Well anyway...I just fucking love how the sheer presence of Ditto makes all the big scary uncounterable Set up sweepers of Ubers piss their pants :D.I mean there are basicly no set up'ers in "Ubers" right now.
I'm impressed by ditto's newfound power. You can do almost anything with it. I was just in a battle where I used ditto to set up SR and spikes. You could troll blissey too, switching into without fear of status due to natural cure and giving your team a free wish.
How about a baton passer? Volt/water absorber? non scarf ditto is just as viable. What could it hold though?
How about a baton passer? Volt/water absorber? non scarf ditto is just as viable. What could it hold though?
This, and I'm shocked there's not more stateing this.
Sorry, but the abilty to revenge kill ANYTHING that's not behind a Sub, or has a Scarf of it's own is broken.
The abilty to force out any set-up sweeper, and throw all the momentum he had right back at them, is broken. Switch in Scarf Ditto on +1/+1 Mance [Or higher], Outrage. Win.
Ditto forces out any attacker, in fact, unless they do not carry a move which can KO themselves. [Oh, woe every single attacker attempting to get as much coverage as possible]
Then there's the fact that Eccentric Ditto can work like Tracers. And Focus Sash Eccentric Ditto is almost as good a revenge killer as Scarf Ditto... but can switch moves afterwards.
Eccentric Ditto is, put simply, absurd, and I'd be expecting a VERY short Uber list for Dream World if Ditto dosen't go there. And, by short, I mean, the proposed banlist of hardly anything but title legends.
The fact that Ditto must hold Choice Scarf to reliably revenge kill something makes it not so broken. It's way too predictable and a will be stuck on that predictable move. If it comes in on your Salamence, you know exactly which Dragon move is coming your way. If it comes in on Doryuuza (without Balloon), you know it's going to use Earthquake. You can switch accordingly.
In Trick Room Macho Brace Ditto could be like Choice Scarf Ditto with the advantage of being able to swap moves, but you'll want to switch after the KO if they have +Speed. Also, this would work better in Rotation Battles because rotating doesnt cause your Ditto to change back. Its gimmicky in Normal Battles but Im just throwing the idea out there.
It also means that ditto coming into a wall is a risky situation. Walls can easily PP stall you out of the 5pp you have locked into 1 move. However, you do get to see their set and potentially set up as well (copy skarm, lay down a few spikes) etc. But all in all it's probably better to use your own user of said support move for more options and hp
It -could- work, but I don't see Ditto revenge killing too well with 3 Turns or less. And Ditto already works pretty well in Rotation Battles with Choice Scarf.
I actually don't have much affection for Scarf Ditto. Although it guarantees that you outspeed what you transformed into, locking yourself into one move means it's surprisingly difficult to do much damage to the enemy team. Thanks to the increased usage of moves like Bulk Up and Calm Mind, many Gen V sweepers are already quite bulky when Ditto switches in, enough that OHKOs aren't any more likely than they'd be at +0/+0. Personally, I find that being able to fully utilize the copies moves is worth risking the speed tie. This isn't just theorymon, either; I tried Scarf Ditto for a bit, but found it often lacking in power and laughably easy for the foe to predict.
What do I use instead? Well, I've tried out Balloon to moderate success - having that extra immunity can be nice. Life Orb and Lefties are always good standbys to milk out a bit more power and health respectively. What I'm really looking forward to trying out, though, is Red Card. Switch in on something that'll survive a dose of its own medicine when boosted (such as Calm Mind Espeon), copy its boosts, and phaze it out all in the very same turn. You sacrifice some health to do that, true, but it's worth it: even if the copied Pokemon comes back in, Ditto won't need help obliterating it, and it's a lot harder to stop Ditto's rampage when it's not locked into a single move.
What do I use instead? Well, I've tried out Balloon to moderate success - having that extra immunity can be nice. Life Orb and Lefties are always good standbys to milk out a bit more power and health respectively. What I'm really looking forward to trying out, though, is Red Card. Switch in on something that'll survive a dose of its own medicine when boosted (such as Calm Mind Espeon), copy its boosts, and phaze it out all in the very same turn. You sacrifice some health to do that, true, but it's worth it: even if the copied Pokemon comes back in, Ditto won't need help obliterating it, and it's a lot harder to stop Ditto's rampage when it's not locked into a single move.