You don't need to use hail, you can use rain or sun as well. And not very common, I believe.
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Moody
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You don't need to use hail, you can use rain or sun as well. And not very common, I believe.
@Fluffy Otters-- overlooking all your posts: Lurk more
This is the way Smogon handles tiers, there is no discussion or room to argue, this is simply POLICY, the way things are (just like any of the rules and regulations we have in our community):
OU and UU are designed tiers. They are meant to be balanced and played as the popular tiers, with UU being a second tier for lesser used pokemon. The fact OU is currently imbalanced has no pertinence to the fact that we are currently in the process of balancing it, but first making sure whether certain bans are deserved or not.
Ubers and BL are ban lists, this is their own purpose and there is no need at all to balance them because they are not designed for play.
That said, people are free to play with whatever lists they want as long as both players agree to the rules, and Smogon is not imposing its threads on those who choose not to follow smogon. People are free to play Ubers and BL if they want to-- with the understanding that they are not designed to be tiers.
Therefore, there is no "too good for Uber" or "unbalancing in Ubers". The fact you have this misconception is what causes posters around you to roll their eyes. *lurk more*
This is the way Smogon handles tiers, there is no discussion or room to argue, this is simply POLICY, the way things are (just like any of the rules and regulations we have in our community):
OU and UU are designed tiers. They are meant to be balanced and played as the popular tiers, with UU being a second tier for lesser used pokemon. The fact OU is currently imbalanced has no pertinence to the fact that we are currently in the process of balancing it, but first making sure whether certain bans are deserved or not.
Ubers and BL are ban lists, this is their own purpose and there is no need at all to balance them because they are not designed for play.
That said, people are free to play with whatever lists they want as long as both players agree to the rules, and Smogon is not imposing its threads on those who choose not to follow smogon. People are free to play Ubers and BL if they want to-- with the understanding that they are not designed to be tiers.
Therefore, there is no "too good for Uber" or "unbalancing in Ubers". The fact you have this misconception is what causes posters around you to roll their eyes. *lurk more*
That's because they have a quantifiable consistent boost to evasion. This set has the potential to boost up to +6 evasion without being hit once
Yeah, but that's literally why it's not covered by Evasion Clause.
Of course, there's no reason why you and the opponent can't simply agree on an Inconsistant Clause in Ubers.
I learned my lesson, I'm not going to argue any more, especially since this isn't the right topic for that and we both got side-tracked. But other than you and like one other person, I haven't seen people argue so vehemently over this whether ubers is a tier or not (in all practical usage it is, if not called that in name which is somewhat stupid, and it doesn't need to have been originally designed for a tier to become a tier but enough of that).
And despite differing opinions in what is and isn't a tier, doesn't mean my opinions aren't valid. I guess you could ignore my posts all you want but other than these last few about the tier, they have all been valid in application to the topic and ideas of Pokemon. I don't see why I need to lurk more on relating to topics like individual Pokemon and things since I am well aware of what the pokemon can and can't do in theory for the most part. It just seems that now you just don't like me.
Back on to the topic of Inconsistent: Smeargle pass is broken. If it gets in safely, it will make a successful pass of something (hopefully not accuracy) if not more with Spore/Sub/and evasion+Speed boosts.
Aura Sphere is limited in the OU metagame to Togekiss, Lucario, and Mew and you don't see those very often. It is more likely to see 100% accurate Thunder and Hurricane in Rain.
There is no doubt in my mind that this will be axed into a ban/clause. It is ridiculous whether or not it works, and it could make games go on for much longer than necessary.
smeargle is broken ? lol
Mach punch, Bullet punch, priority, and many kind of attack beat him even with insane amount of buff ! and god help you if they use spore to thier advantage.
Seriously its only good on paper and shinbora
WHile octilerry has good stats and one of best typing in the game, and a movepool that says if i have high speed im OU last gen !!!!
Mach punch, Bullet punch, priority, and many kind of attack beat him even with insane amount of buff ! and god help you if they use spore to thier advantage.
Seriously its only good on paper and shinbora
WHile octilerry has good stats and one of best typing in the game, and a movepool that says if i have high speed im OU last gen !!!!
Come in on something slower, Substitute to see what they do, and then Spore. If they leave in something slower, might as well Shell Break/some other boost up and pass with Inconsistent as they break sub. If they switch, you still boost and then Spore them. Then you pass as they send in a priority users (unless you happened to sleep their priority user) and send in Dragonite/Nidoking/Something and god help them.
Yeah, I like Double attacking Octillery. Surf/Flamethrower for win baby.
okay first
That mean you have move spore, sub, Shell break/gear change/B dance, Pass
answer :
Sleep Talk Gyara kill you
THEN smeargle in + 4 has weak subsitute, so weak its luaghable.
Even the safe sub protect isnt safe with spore added in
Lose to residal Sandstorm.
Unless your shinboraa receiving its not broken. with shin its still arguable too.
Also in SS, dory outspeed at + 2 which is huge
Octilerry on the other hand is a pokemon that basicaly say i want speed to become OU.
Imagine how insane octilerry with spin support last gen if he has like 95 or 100 speed.
Its might enter suspect test after all.
That mean you have move spore, sub, Shell break/gear change/B dance, Pass
answer :
Sleep Talk Gyara kill you
THEN smeargle in + 4 has weak subsitute, so weak its luaghable.
Even the safe sub protect isnt safe with spore added in
Lose to residal Sandstorm.
Unless your shinboraa receiving its not broken. with shin its still arguable too.
Also in SS, dory outspeed at + 2 which is huge
Octilerry on the other hand is a pokemon that basicaly say i want speed to become OU.
Imagine how insane octilerry with spin support last gen if he has like 95 or 100 speed.
Its might enter suspect test after all.
Sleep Talk Gyra picked Rest. Does nothing. Sleep Talk Gyra picked Dragon Tail, it misses/Smeargle had gotten an evasion boost/is behind sub. It might not recover it's hp in hail/sand with leftovers but if it gets a successful pass off, it don't matter unlike for Octillery/Bibarel/Glalie.
Sleep Talk Gyrados couldn't break a +4 Def Substitute with Dragon Tail and unless you're using Roar that would be tricky. Are you using Roar or Dragon Tail? Roar has a tendency to miss with evasion boosts and it might successfully pass due to misses and kill your Gyrados (I know because I tested it out and I managed to get Evasion first round against Skarmory and Passed +4 Shell Smash in addition to whatever else I got). Dragon Tail even worse since Sub blocks it. Waterfall would barely break a +4 Def sub.
Also, if you pass to anything with higher than 302 speed then, Doruzu isn't going to be a good counter then. A good one to pass to then might be Kerudio who does insane damage with water/fighting and Burungeru couldn't do squat to it if it carried Hp Electric. Kerudio is yet another poke that will TEAR YOU APART. Even special walls aren't safe because Mystery Sword/Close Combat will hit them (does Kerudio get Mystery Sword yet?).
Doryuzu couldn't do anything to Multi-Scale Dragonite either, particularly with +Def/Evasion/Additional speed boosts. Actually on a good day, an unboosted Rock Slide WITHOUT Multi-Scale would only do 45.71-54.03% and you'd need a flinch hax and if Dragonite isn't flinched/has evasion/defense boosts, Doryuzu won't win.
Uh, what? If you have Sub + Protect, even in SS, you can stall for like 6 turns of boosts without ever getting hit, assuming substitute always dies in one hit.
Not to mention, it doesn't matter if they outspeed you as long as you got a sub out on the opponent's switch(since I hope you didn't try setting up on something that initially outsped you). It goes:
Opponent attacked!
Smeargle's sub faded!
Smeargle used Substitute!
Sub + Protect works regardless of whether the opponent is faster or not if you can get a sub up to begin with.
I think the problem with this way of thinking is that there are now large amounts of people playing ubers and to allow inconsistent simply ruins the uber metagame. Its the same reason that we don't allow evasion moves in Ubers or OHKO moves in ubers. If its simply a banlist then there would be no ruleset in it at all as it is not designed for general play and requires no balancing. Similarly by your thinking why not let Darkrai Dark Void all your opponents pokemon in ubers since there isnt any ruleset. That being said if the ability is simply banned then policy may be to just allow it in ubers which is why I feel an Inconsistent clause across all of the tiers would be better than simply banning the ability.
Inconsistent = broken. For me, the moment it gives an evasion boost it's gg.
The standard ruleset applies to all tiers, not just OU. Therefore, it would apply to Ubers. The point is that it doesn't matter if Ubers is balanced or not; having clauses is irrelevant.
That said, I agree that a clause would be the best idea because it fits into a category of "bad for everything," and shouldn't be allowed anywhere as per the arguments already stated.
Your argument is flawed because it only attempts to justify your chances of getting evasion boosts. So its been 6 turns now, no evasion boost, but +2 Atk, +2 SpA, +4 Spe, and so on. No thats not broken at all....
It's been 2 turns now and i just used shell break?
oh wait
you don't get 6 free turns, maybe 1-2 with spore, but not six
Yes, giving attack and speed boosts for free to Octillery and Bibarel isn't broken. Octillery has a huge movepool and can work on both sides. It has less on the physical but nonetheless it can run Seed Bomb, Surf, Flamethrower/blast, Icebeam, Energy Ball, Sludge Wave, Boiling Water, Waterfall, and I'm not sure if Water Spout and Inconsistent can go together but Water Spout can get pretty strong with Evasion/Speed/SAtk boosts. 150 base power+Stab if it can. Sure losing hp through sub is annoying but once your subs aren't broken and not being hit, it will wash away.
People keep mentioning how Toxicroak and a few other things are counters to Sub/Protect/Boiling Water or Surf/Toxic Octillery. But if Octillery runs multiple attacks, there are even less. What are you using Toxic on that isn't damaged by boosted surfs and coverage move? Other bulky waters? Most couldn't do anything to Octillery, especially with defense boosts and evasions. Suicune and Vaporeon are rare and Burungeru usually isn't going to be that threatening or be able to do anything although without Energy Ball, neither will Octillery. That is the only one I would consider Toxic for but you should really be running another Toxic user or Toxic Spikes for that. But you lose hits on things like Toxicroak who'll try to be tricky clearing up Toxic Spikes and taking nothing although it will just turn into stall and not kill Octillery. Run Flamethrower and it's dead fast since it has an auto weakness with Dry Skin. It has weak defenses so Icebeam and Energy Ball work after some boosts.
Flamethrower also kills Abomasnow (which I faced with my Octillery as it attempted to Sub/Protect/Leech Seed me and the normal Octillery would get boned so hard by that. But haha Flamethrower. I eventually lost Octillery through Toxic Spikes poison I believe but I killed it and maybe something else).
And it is amazing how all of a sudden how few "counters" Octillery has with two attacks. Poison Mushroom gets Flamethrowered/Icebeam. You hit other Octillery and Inconsistent Users and bulky waters with Energy Ball. Toxicroak and Abomasnow burn in flames. You get more problems with some Unaware users but they mostly suck except Quagsire who'll eat Energy Ball and Clefable is pointless without Magic Guard.
People keep mentioning how Toxicroak and a few other things are counters to Sub/Protect/Boiling Water or Surf/Toxic Octillery. But if Octillery runs multiple attacks, there are even less. What are you using Toxic on that isn't damaged by boosted surfs and coverage move? Other bulky waters? Most couldn't do anything to Octillery, especially with defense boosts and evasions. Suicune and Vaporeon are rare and Burungeru usually isn't going to be that threatening or be able to do anything although without Energy Ball, neither will Octillery. That is the only one I would consider Toxic for but you should really be running another Toxic user or Toxic Spikes for that. But you lose hits on things like Toxicroak who'll try to be tricky clearing up Toxic Spikes and taking nothing although it will just turn into stall and not kill Octillery. Run Flamethrower and it's dead fast since it has an auto weakness with Dry Skin. It has weak defenses so Icebeam and Energy Ball work after some boosts.
Flamethrower also kills Abomasnow (which I faced with my Octillery as it attempted to Sub/Protect/Leech Seed me and the normal Octillery would get boned so hard by that. But haha Flamethrower. I eventually lost Octillery through Toxic Spikes poison I believe but I killed it and maybe something else).
And it is amazing how all of a sudden how few "counters" Octillery has with two attacks. Poison Mushroom gets Flamethrowered/Icebeam. You hit other Octillery and Inconsistent Users and bulky waters with Energy Ball. Toxicroak and Abomasnow burn in flames. You get more problems with some Unaware users but they mostly suck except Quagsire who'll eat Energy Ball and Clefable is pointless without Magic Guard.
Unaware Hahakomori & Clefable takes complete advantage on this since:
(I assume it ignores evasion and speedboosts too?, nothing on the subject in reference thread)
Switching in to a free psych up(if ignores speedboosts) after mindgaming them to get greedy, then kill their sub and start sweeping, especially with them being stuck. If they switch, that's at the least a free wish/cosmic power for clefable, and if they release female unaware clefable, then that turn can be a belly drum!
Inconsistent sounds to be like it's name IMO.
(I assume it ignores evasion and speedboosts too?, nothing on the subject in reference thread)
Switching in to a free psych up(if ignores speedboosts) after mindgaming them to get greedy, then kill their sub and start sweeping, especially with them being stuck. If they switch, that's at the least a free wish/cosmic power for clefable, and if they release female unaware clefable, then that turn can be a belly drum!
Inconsistent sounds to be like it's name IMO.
Inconsistent is actually a two bladed sword. Sometimes it can hamper you with un-needed stat boosts. Then again it can boost you right where you want it. What really bothers me are evasion boosts. Those are probubly the most dangerous boosts somebody can get. It's just annoying after somebody gets a speed and evasion boost.
I believe this will be banned under the umbrella of evasion clause as it actaully BOOSTS evasion, possibly up to +6
At the moment, it's still not covered by Evasion clause since that's specifically just Double Team and Minimize, not everything that can boost evasion.
Yeah, we can amend Evasion Clause to include it, but at the moment, it doesn't encompass Inconsistant.
That is why I used the word "will". Meaning future tense. No other ability or move actively raises evasion, level-wise
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