Skarmory takes 87.4% - 103.3% from a +2 Waterfall coming from Kabutops under rain - how does SkarmBliss fare well against rain sweepers, again? I don't really have a say in this argument but fuck at least get your facts right
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!
- Thread starter Philip7086
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Seriously? You didn't have to rat on me when I assumed the user was smart enough to deal with swords dance.
Well, like i said we can go back and forth so might as well end it now, cause i can counter these statements but ultimately it isn't changing anything, so unless someone else would like to know how a vap can wall a team (provided some switches were made because a weakened sweeper is easy to setup on) it would be pointless for us to go back and forth.
I personally feel like EVERY weather is a huge threat, but right now isn't the time to discuss it, we need to take more time looking at the metagame beforehand, but i would personally love to see a ladder with no auto-inducers involved, for all levels: Ubers, Standard, UU
Why not create two different systems? A weather tiering system and a non-weather tiering system. This is Smogon for Christ's sake, I'm sure we could pull this off. That way, no matter how you whine or complain, you'll get your way. I would gladly do whatever it takes to help that happen.
Because that's not doing anything to create the standard metagame. The whole point of suspect testing is to decide if something is overpowered; creating two tiers is just avoiding answering the question of whether the tactic actually is overpowered.
I don't think we need ANOTHER metagame tier system when we already have a split between DW and non-DW that exists, which hopefully one day when and IF all abilities are released will eventually just create one metagame. I mean its already difficult enough to communicate at times with the split as there are confusions at times with some people trying to get on the same page when they're talking about two different metagames.
I'm not saying now, and I'm not saying we need to create seperate metagames. I'm saying we should have ways to allow people to experience an enjoyable metagame, whether it has weather or not. You're asking for the complete lack of a good competitive strategy?
You guys simply refuse to listen. When there is nothing that can check/counter a strategy without being directly tailored to do so and interfering with the focus of your team, there is a problem. Things like scarf Deo-A are made to deal with absurd threats, and take away greatly from the usefulness of the pokemon. Roobushin can exist very well outside of countering Doryuuzu, as can Breloom, but you have to custom tailor pokes to deal with the broken three.
...but you just tailored your team to handle the sand's broken pokemon.... i don't run roob/loom.. so what are you trying to say..
Then your team will be destroyed every time by Doryuuzu unless you run another of its specific counters.
So we have to use otherwise useless pokemon to stop this strategy? That doesn't sound very balanced to me. Ludicolo OHKOs it anyway with Grass Knot.
Why would it not carry Dragon Pulse?
What I'm saying is that running something like Breloom is completely viable outside of its ability to counter Doryuuzu. That is not the reason it is used, therefore my team is not being harmed by its use.
As a matter of fact, that lack of recovery, immunity, or the ability to do much of anything anymore is the reason Swampert has faded from relevance this gen. If I need SR and a lightweight Dragon check, I'll still look in his direction, but once Mamoswine gets Thick Fat, not even that. :/
Is Thick Fat going to be compatible wtih Stealth Rock?
IMO, the biggest reason for the drop of, not only swampert, bulky water types in general (including Suicune, Vappy, etc., which while around, are much less common), is that Nattorei makes all of them its bitch.
While former grass types, due to shitty STAB, had a hard time taking advantage of the ability to force water types out, Nattorei can just deliver the enemy with a field full of hazards. Just putting a bulky water on the battle field becomes a liability to the rest of your team should the enemy have a nattorei (unless of course you're packing hp fire, then good for you).
IMO, the biggest reason for the drop of, not only swampert, bulky water types in general (including Suicune, Vappy, etc., which while around, are much less common), is that Nattorei makes all of them its bitch.
While former grass types, due to shitty STAB, had a hard time taking advantage of the ability to force water types out, Nattorei can just deliver the enemy with a field full of hazards. Just putting a bulky water on the battle field becomes a liability to the rest of your team should the enemy have a nattorei (unless of course you're packing hp fire, then good for you).
But problem is Momoswine that released is event, so it is sure 100% male and make it can't bred DW ability. So it is not legit with any egg move.
While I don't know a whole lot about this Dream World crap, I do have to express some degree of skepticism at the idea of event-released Pokemon with DW abilities arbitrarily being 100% male. My guess is that there's a glitch somewhere that has yet to be corrected and once Nintendo catches wind of this, they'll fix it. But for right now... :/
I think it's still possible to breed DW male moves through a chain of breeding and Ditto abuse (to get a female with Thick Fat and to get a Ground egg group male with Stealth Rock), but I don't have that much in-game knowledge, so I'll bite my tongue there.
I think it's still possible to breed DW male moves through a chain of breeding and Ditto abuse (to get a female with Thick Fat and to get a Ground egg group male with Stealth Rock), but I don't have that much in-game knowledge, so I'll bite my tongue there.
I realize if i don't run a dory counter i will lose, however he suggested that you don't have to run a counter for dory but you do have to for rain teams, but then said if i don't run those specific people then dory will run me over
Just how running Vap isn't harming my team because it has uses outside of that as well, or any of the counters i provided, so my point being, rain isn't any worse than sand
Nah, it's because the pokemon being released as events are random promo-based ones, and that those pokes are likely going to be released in the dream world normally as well, in their base form (Eevee, Swinub, Togepi, etc.)
Scarf deoxys-A isn't that bad actually. The ability to outrun weather boosters and certain other speed boost pokemon under a certain point helps out.
So is the problem with rain the fact that you need to use lousy and otherwise bad pokemon in order to counter it? Or is it that no single pokemon can handle all of rain's sweepers?
So is the problem with rain the fact that you need to use lousy and otherwise bad pokemon in order to counter it? Or is it that no single pokemon can handle all of rain's sweepers?
It's in the policy review forum titled "Blind Voting".
But here are the results.
Edit - My opinion is that I am not sad to see Darkrai, both Doexys forms and Shaymind-S goes, as I expected it. I am surprised that Latios and Doryuuzu didn't even get a simple majority, but at the same time happy because I don't think they're as powerful as they're made out to be, hoping that they are not re-nominated and banned at some point in the future.
But here are the results.
Edit - My opinion is that I am not sad to see Darkrai, both Doexys forms and Shaymind-S goes, as I expected it. I am surprised that Latios and Doryuuzu didn't even get a simple majority, but at the same time happy because I don't think they're as powerful as they're made out to be, hoping that they are not re-nominated and banned at some point in the future.
I'm honestly very surprised that Manaphy didn't get banned and that Doe-N did. Through all my testing I found that Manaphy was clearly very overpowered, and with everyone using Deo-A I never really saw much Deo-N use. As a result I voted for no Deo-N ban as I believe that it really was an unknown quantity in th metagame and should be given a chance without it's older brother around. Obviously the other voters saw it different and banned him, which probably would have happened in the next round of testing anyway. I thought the voting went very well even though some of the results surprised me. I can't wait for the next round of testing.
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