Saying things such as ludicolo and gorebyss have no boosting moves is a blatant lie. Ludicolo gets the ever good swords dance and gorebyss gets agility and possibly the best boosting move, shell break (I'm assuming you meant attack and speed boosting moves). Please, if you're going to contribute to the conversation, don't use hyperbole and instead use your logic.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!
- Thread starter Philip7086
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Saying things such as ludicolo and gorebyss have no boosting moves is a blatant lie. Ludicolo gets the ever good swords dance and gorebyss gets agility and possibly the best boosting move, shell break (I'm assuming you meant attack and speed boosting moves). Please, if you're going to contribute to the conversation, don't use hyperbole and instead use your logic.
No prob is was just a clash of viewpoints.
Well even from 70 bst raising anyones attack 2 stages will do loads. Plus ludicolo has stab waterfall + seed bomb.
I count 8 that can do it reliably and aren't dead weight otherwise.
Uh...Gorebyss has Shell Smash and Ludicolo can Swords Dance. And 90 special attack is useable. Like, Life Orb Focus Blast 2 hit koes max hp/max SDef Nattorie, has stabbed Giga Drain/Surf, has Swift Swim, etc. And if Gorebyss gets Shell Smash short of Nattorei/Blissey, the thing will pound you to pieces and both Nattorei and Blissey are easily 2 hit koed (and even if Nattorei kills it, it would be so weakened that any other Swift Swimmer can kill it). Kabutops does beat Nattorei if Nattorei switches in and not many use Erufuun. And Roopushin needs Guts for Mach Punch to ohko Kabutops (after Life Orb), Hitmontop has almost 50% ohko after Life Orb (and still not many use it), Breloom is the only one ohkoing.
The thing is, in rain although they are average to useless outside it, is that in rain, they are phenomenal. Sand has useable users outside of Sand (Garchomp, Gliscor, Landlos). And unless you change the weather, rain is going to go on. The problem is, how you're going to switch your weather user in since Sand and Fire teams are weak to a lot of the moves water users would carry. Politoad can 2 hit ko Tyranitar in Sand (ohko with Specs Focus Blast if it doesn't have Special defense investment). Tyranitar/Hippowdon/Ninetail can't really switch in on anything and really only Abomasnow can on certain things (not Focus Blast, Rock Moves, Fighting moves, etc) and few use that.
What are you talking about? Gorebyss's special attack is only 10 points shorter than Jolly. And has double stabbed Swift Swim Surf/Hdydro Pump, the potential to use Shell Smash and be unstoppable in rain (808 speed), etc. And while it is meh speed without rain, after Shell Smash it still outruns non-Scarf things and Choice Scarfers of <86 speed that aren't running positive speed natures. No weakness to Mach Punch at least and only Breloom comes close to ohkoing with Mach Punch after -1 (but even with one round Life Orb it has 66.67% of surving).
Manaphy would be broken even without Drizzle (can set up it's own Rain Dance which means Water absorbers will wall it but wouldn't really do anything back and dragons resist although if facing a +3 Tail Glow, will be 2 hit koed)
More defensive Flying-types, if any. Even in the new metagame with less rocks abundant, they're still pretty common with easy-to-set-up pokemon like Skarmory, Nattorei, and Forretress. This means that the birds will have to have some way of recovery or some absurd offensive capability or some extremely special niche in order to be used. Some I can think of are MM Xatu, Skarmory, and Zapdos, especially when Lightningrod is released. I don't think the rise will be too much, though, as Skymin has a very unique ability + moves + stat combo. As for Grass-type pokemon, no. As said just before, Skymin has a very unique ability + moves + stat combo, and most Grass-types tend to lean on the defensive side.
EDIT:
TheValkyries said:
That pretty much answers it. Also, there are multiple rounds in the (never-ending) Suspect test, so you could qualify and vote it next round...PttP said:
This might sound silly but, Golduck with Cloud Nine Counters Dory and come in on a switch if Dory doesn't have a SD up or if it has a sash
What's NU have to do w/ anything? A check is a check. LOmontop is quite useful I think.
Just out of curiosity, how do you aquire voting rights? I would feel bad if I contributed/conflicted this thread for nothing but upsetting people.
Hitmontop is far from useless. It also checks Deoxys-A, Deoxys-N, and Darkrai.
They all got banned, but for the last suspect test, he was an incredibly handy mon.
Hitmontop is a decent check to a number of things, but he's countered pretty hard by a lot of common Pokemon (Gliscor, Skarmory, Rankurusu, Burungeru, Hippowdon), and on top of that, things you'd never want to give a free turn to (Salamence, Gyarados, Zapdos). In fact, if you're really bulky and/or resist Fighting, you'll most likely counter Hitmontop.
Tiering is based on usage and not stats/usefulness. If every Gen 4 player simultaneously started playing RD teams, Trode would be OU, since it is the most useful RD lead.
Although it's true, that was not the point in dispute.
1) Electrode is not the most useful rain lead.
2) Since when was anyone talking about tiering?
Hitmontop isn't exactly helpless against Salamence and Gyarados either, he does have Stone Edge to make them think twice before switching in. Also, another thing, don't forget Hitmontop has the extremely valuable asset of Rapid Spin. It's actually a great Pokemon to run, it was easily my MVP in early 5th gen Dream World OU.
Bleh, pretty annoyed that in the end only the super obvious pokes got banned. :/
Also how did skymin get unanimous while inconsisteant didn't even get 90%? :/
I am going to spam manaphy and latios so hard this meta. Don't even need toed. With shaymin s gone, latios + manaphy + magnezone = game : p
Also how did skymin get unanimous while inconsisteant didn't even get 90%? :/
I am going to spam manaphy and latios so hard this meta. Don't even need toed. With shaymin s gone, latios + manaphy + magnezone = game : p
I thought Inconsistent got 96%?
Anyway, Magnezone really is under-appreciated. He can't sweep or wall, but he's one of the best support pokemon around when it comes to setting up another poke's sweep.
Whoops ah well
anyway if you can kill natto (relatively easy with zone and/or a lure), you can sweep with any number of shit
anyway if you can kill natto (relatively easy with zone and/or a lure), you can sweep with any number of shit
ya pretty much
considering that it's only recovery is Leech Seed, people rely on Nattorei way too much IMO. It holds their team together and once it goes, the team falls apart. It's basically just Forretress without Rapid Spin or Toxic Spikes, although it does have superior defenses and Leech Seed.
I'm sorry, but if the people that are being deemed good enough to get the job done aren't getting the job done then they need to be told that. I don't pretend that I'm good enough to get the voting rights, but I know enough about the metagame to realize when a severe problem hasn't even remotely been fixed while also indirectly making it stronger by removing the majority of its checks.
You'd have to be immensely ignorant to even imagine that they don't deserve to be told that they utterly dropped the ball when it came to Drizzle and Manaphy. If they didn't ban one, they should've at least banned the other.
Maybe the "rain problem" isn't a problem at all? (although I'll admit I was kinda confused when Manaphy wasn't banned.) It's not like there aren't any elements and strategies a team can use to prevent rain from reeking havoc.
TBH the only problem rain get into was the fact that toed is not as good as ttar and hippo (screw tales hes as useless or maybe not...) but made up by the insane abuser in form of double speed dragon and manaphy. Only these 2 that i get my attention at being an abuser alongside Ludi,Gorebyss baton pass. TBH the other abuser (lesser extent on kabutops) is manageable and somehow dissapointing.
(oh i have mentioned all 4 most used abuser as good)
But yeah i cant argue bout dory. Fire Blast from standard non life orbed DD mence dont OHKO hm. What the hell has happened i never know
(oh i have mentioned all 4 most used abuser as good)
But yeah i cant argue bout dory. Fire Blast from standard non life orbed DD mence dont OHKO hm. What the hell has happened i never know
This just seems like a spite-filled post coming from someone who didn't get what he wanted. Can you say how we've dropped the ball?? For your information, Drizzle and Manaphy were both deemed too powerful by the majority of voters, and it's only due to the fact that two simple majorities are needed that they aren't bring removed right away (which has it's own reasons, which isn't hard to think of why).
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