Moody

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fuck you all said:
whiny bitches. play the game.
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Quote of the year. I hope you accept being in my signature.

To contribute to the discussion:

@ Cshadow
It really can't be compared to any other boosting method the game makes available.
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You mean except Speed Boost? :>
Even then, you should not be so concerned about the method of gaining boosts but about the net effect. The main argument against Inconsistent is that Octillery could get to +2 Evasion in one round by just protecting. (The +2 Speed scenario is ridiculous as there is a fair amount of Pokemon that still hit Octillery at +2 Speed before it can Sub.)
So let's compare that to other boosting methods...
Garchomp and Gliscor get +1 Evasion in Sand without giving the opponent a free turn of setup (and without wasting a moveslot on Protect).
Doryuzu, Kingdra, Ludicolo and Venusaur get +2 Speed in their respective weather (again without moveslot or free turn).
Dragonite is certain to get +1/+1 when switching in with full HP. Yache Garchomp is pretty certain to get +2 Atk. Heck, Volbeat is guaranteed a +3 SpAtk boost. (It may also keep it if it survives one attack).

So what you people are telling me, is that if you get the choice of fighting either a +2 evasion Octillery or a +1 evasion Garchomp, you pick Garchomp?
 
You do realize that two of the methods of boosts Pokemon get that you've listed in your post are negated by simply changing the weather yes? That's a pretty huge difference in comparison to Inconsistent d:

Idk if Speed Boost can even be compared because it's a guaranteed +1 Boost in speed with nothing more or nothing less, while Inconsistent could give you a +2 in absolutely anything. I can see how they could be considered similar since they do indeed boost stats without the use of a move.

All the Pokemon you've listed have to use that specific move and will only gain in that specific stat, while Pokemon with Inconsistent just need to stall long enough to get the boosts they want and then they sweep. Pokemon like Garchomp and Volbeat and Dragonite need to look for opportunities to set up and more than likely require much more support than an Inconsistent Pokemon who really just needs Protect and Substitute (that's not to say that Inconsistent Pokemon don't require support too - they do to an extent, but you can successfully sweep by literally stalling out until you get the boost you want, and then continuing getting more and more boosts).
 
Sandstreamer said:
So what you people are telling me, is that if you get the choice of fighting either a +2 evasion Octillery or a +1 evasion Garchomp, you pick Garchomp?
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If octillery got one boost and no more, then I'm pretty sure no-one would complain. The problem is would you rather face a +1 evasion Garchomp who cannot boost any further (and only retains this boost in sand) or a +2 evasion Octillery who gets a +2 boost every turn. Seriously, with wobb support getting a free sub is easy then they can protect sub stall until they have all the boosts they need.
 
Bombkirby said:
The posts have conflicting reasons, I'm doing other things right now, I just don't have time to quote and present reasons to everyone.

Like I said 2 +2 boosts are obtainable using other methods. You may ban Inconsistent but it's methods will still be in the game.

I think its a perfectly fair gamble. If it doesn't work, you wasted a single Pokemon. There are SOOOOOOOOOOO many worse startegies out there like Calm Mind Shanderaa switched in on a tank which can't kill it's sub so it CM's behind the sub and the leftovers heal the Sub damage as the CM boosts soften the blows of your tank's attacks giving them even more time to recover from Sub damage and then they sub up and sweep while the sub absorbs any sucker punch or aquajets....yeah I think we get the picture. I think we're panicking over this whole ability. Some one got lucky a few times and beat an unprepared opponent and now this new mysterious strategy just has to be banned cuz we dont understand it.

EDIT: I g2g so later.
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If it doesn't work....you switch out and try again.
It turns the game into a roll of dice,a game of pure luck,where even its "counters" struggle to stop it.

You can't compare a BP chain/Speed Boost/Sand Veil/Snow Cloak to Inconsistent.
They only get those boosts in a specific stat,while Inconsistent can get a boost in ANY stat.
What are you going to do against an Octillery with +6 in both defenses and +4 evasion? You lost,you can't win.
"Oh,but it's a gamble,they wont always get it!" But they can stall for it,and they have around 6 chances to get it,maybe even more.

Btw,if you switch in your taunter as they protect....they can protect again without fail,that's already 2 turns,which is enough to get an Evasion or Speed boost,and then it'll probably be "gg".
 
As I've said before: If you let Octillery enter its Sub-loop, you deserve to lose. And don't tell me "But it's only ONE TURN, maaaan". One turn makes the difference in this game. You're all prepared not to let a Garchomp or Mence or whatever get this one turn of setup it needs. Why aren't you prepared to not let an Octillery get this one turn? I'll tell you: You're not used to seeing Octillery. And that's the funny thing about this discussion: Smogon, out of all the pokemon fan sites, bans Pokemon for being stronger than they look like.

@ below
same thing.
 
Sandstreamer said:
As I've said before: If you let Octillery enter its Sub-loop, you deserve to lose. And don't tell me "But it's only ONE TURN, maaaan". One turn makes the difference in this game. You're all prepared not to let a Garchomp or Mence or whatever get this one turn of setup it needs. Why aren't you prepared to not let an Octillery get this one turn? I'll tell you: You're not used to seeing Octillery. And that's the funny thing about this discussion: Smogon, out of all the pokemon fan sites, bans Pokemon for being stronger than they look like.
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Lol?
We're not banning it because it's completely impossible to handle,we're banning it because it's COMPLETELY based on luck. There's no skill involved at ALL.
It switches in,uses Protect,and gets its boosts. Wrong boost? It switches back out and tries again later.
 
I really underestimated this until someone actually got it going on me....though I'm not a fan of banning things, I can see why it could be.
 
Sandstreamer said:
As I've said before: If you let Octillery enter its Sub-loop, you deserve to lose. And don't tell me "But it's only ONE TURN, maaaan". One turn makes the difference in this game. You're all prepared not to let a Garchomp or Mence or whatever get this one turn of setup it needs. Why aren't you prepared to not let an Octillery get this one turn? I'll tell you: You're not used to seeing Octillery. And that's the funny thing about this discussion: Smogon, out of all the pokemon fan sites, bans Pokemon for being stronger than they look like.

@ below
same thing.
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So how do you stop it if your using wobbuffet to give it a free sub, or what if they protect and get an evasion boost, you miss and they get a free sub. Don't pretend that only bad players lose to Inconsistent.
 
Zeph said:
I really underestimated this until someone actually got it going on me....though I'm not a fan of banning things, I can see why it could be.
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entirely agree i was like ok whatever kind of laughed this off but on the last night before it was banned this ability is brokennnnn its so ridiculous. very glad to see it go and it needs to stay that way.
 
j99ubers said:
So how do you stop it if your using wobbuffet to give it a free sub, or what if they protect and get an evasion boost, you miss and they get a free sub. Don't pretend that only bad players lose to Inconsistent.
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Or adding to this it managed to receive a speed/evasion/defense boost that gave it a shot at subbing =/ Again I don't see why others still argue for this when one word keeps coming up AGAIN and AGAIN on this thread that either you accept or not is luck. Luck is indeed a part of a metagame, no one here is claiming it isn't I don't understand where people keep getting this idea, but even then just because you may enjoy gambling in a battle doesn't mean its the healthiest way to play - especially if you're trying to be a CONSISTENTLY (no pun intended) good player trying to rise up in the ladder. Sure the gamble of luck is all part of the fun but skill also plays a large part of the game - and one which is promoted in the idea of a healthy metagame. Just look at the warstories being posted here and all the archived ones its prediction and thinking that people look for in quality battles and not due to some fluke or your luck.
 
kk

We're talking about OCTILLERY and BIBARREL. Two of the most epic pokemon in the game, but certainly not the best. Counters will come out eventually, its like SporePunch Breloom imo.

And when will people just stop complaining things are overpowered? Its gotten to the point where everything in this game needs to be banned. Most of these things are really cool, like

Politoad being good
Octillery being good
Bibarell being good

Things that are not cool

That steel/ground mole thing. It's ugly, and really really good. Lets ban it. Oh wait, we're smogon, we only ban cool things.

Stop QQing, realize this game has luck elements anyway

Ban Dunsparce! Serene Grace is too luck based!1!!!!!1
Ban Ninetails! It helped Shiftry sweep my crappy stall team!

Sorry, would just like to say you guys are idiots.
 
Reliking said:
kk

We're talking about OCTILLERY and BIBARREL. Two of the most epic pokemon in the game, but certainly not the best. Counters will come out eventually, its like SporePunch Breloom imo.

And when will people just stop complaining things are overpowered? Its gotten to the point where everything in this game needs to be banned. Most of these things are really cool, like

Politoad being good
Octillery being good
Bibarell being good

Things that are not cool

That steel/ground mole thing. It's ugly, and really really good. Lets ban it. Oh wait, we're smogon, we only ban cool things.

Stop QQing, realize this game has luck elements anyway

Ban Dunsparce! Serene Grace is too luck based!1!!!!!1
Ban Ninetails! It helped Shiftry sweep my crappy stall team!

Sorry, would just like to say you guys are idiots.
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Idiots for banning something that lets a BIDOOF sweep a full team of Uber mons with just Protect + Sub and 2 attacks?
A healthy Metagame doesn't have things that are ENTIRELY based on luck and that the only way to beat them is by being lucky.
 
Dunsparce is NU, because Serene Grace doesn't actually get it far at all. With Serene Grace, Pokemon also need statistic strength to surf that wave of luck. Dunsparce just wipes out.

Inconsistent is just ridiculous.
 
Reliking said:
Again, get rid of Dunsparce then.
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1.Dunsparce,Jirachi,and all Flinchax mon are either slow,weak,or can be walled easily.
2.Serene Grace doesn't give a mon +2 boosts for just sitting around stalling out. All they need is a +2 boost in Speed or Evasion and it's "gg". Not because we're bad players,but because it's just almost impossible to beat unless you make a team that is absolute rubbish outside of countering Inconsistent.
Serene Grace is a LOT easier to beat and doesn't really FORCE you to use otherwise mediocre mons to beat it.
 
Why is this even being discussed? It got banned already. It's over. Doesn't matter that you think Bibarel is super cool (hint: it's not) and deserves to bullshit hax everyone: it got banned already and it isn't coming back. It got like 96% of the votes to ban it.
 
SharKing said:
Dunsparce is NU, because Serene Grace doesn't actually get it far at all. With Serene Grace, Pokemon also need statistic strength to surf that wave of luck. Dunsparce just wipes out.

Inconsistent is just ridiculous.
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Adding to this other serene grace flinch abusers pokemon like Jirachi (steel types or bulky waters or Swampert/any ground&water combination) & Togekiss (speed issues) are just as manageable even with their strength as they both have a weakness and can be dealt with accordingly. As for Dunspace given the increase of fighting types and move distrubution as well and power creeps- with his speed and defenses - chances are he'll be dead before he can paraflinch. All of these can be dealt with by SKILL not luck alone - or no luck at all. While Skymin-S the strongest of all Serene Grace users is unanimously banned =/
 
Serene Grace can easily be shut down by Inner Focus people(Luke, Dragonite, who also get ExtremeSpeed to laugh at the speed loss by paralysis.)
 
The points of this continuing argument? People bawwing about the ability being banned, and others trying to explain why it would obviously be banned to shut the pie holes of the baww'ers.
 
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