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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?
- Thread starter Philip7086
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Yeah, lets force every Stall team to run Spiritomb to make sure they aren't raped by Rankurusu! (And I guess you can run Trick and a heavy hitter, but those can easily fail too because of the opponent having 5 other team members)
But what other use does Spiritomb have in this metagame? Burning random stuff and Spinblocking? Better pulled of by Burungeru who has easily better defensive typing and can potentially deal with some spinners. Walling the occasional random fighting? Not really actually that helpful when it can't do anything but like, Curse Roobushin and takes a huge amount of damage from +2 Terakion.
Overall, it's main real use is a hugely specialized Rankurusu counter, and using that as logic for Rank not being somewhat overpowered is like saying that Kyogre wasn't broken in OU Gen 4 because Quagsire countered it.
Overall, it's main real use is a hugely specialized Rankurusu counter, and using that as logic for Rank not being somewhat overpowered is like saying that Kyogre wasn't broken in OU Gen 4 because Quagsire countered it.
If all else stall has is failing - Perish Song seems by far the best way to deal with him, as it ignores whether he has any other status. Simply keep the move hidden until he is the only one left (phazing him out in the meantime) and the opponent is laughing at you for leaving the lovable little blob to last, then use it as a win condition against him. The main problem is the lack of viable inducers, but Rain Stall at least has a clear user in Politoed (which ironically may be falling to obscurity if Drizzle is banned). MH Murkrow and Celebi seem the most viable users otherwise, though Gengar and Azumarril have access to the move.
On another note, I'm genuninely confused as to why Reinculus has never come up in discussion before he began to be nominated. I was following this thread for weeks before the nominations began and heard nothing of his brokenness whatsoever, leading me to think that people were, perhaps, at the very least prompted to evaluate him as a suspect only by other's nominations.
On another note, I'm genuninely confused as to why Reinculus has never come up in discussion before he began to be nominated. I was following this thread for weeks before the nominations began and heard nothing of his brokenness whatsoever, leading me to think that people were, perhaps, at the very least prompted to evaluate him as a suspect only by other's nominations.
You do realize I was talking about the Bulky CM version,right?
The one people are saying makes stall unviable?
Which are all done better by other members of stall who have better defences and Resists (this is really important unless your Blissey or something else extrememly bulky like her).
Oh, well, in any case, after 2 or so CMs, Psychic will be doing plenty
What common stuff that stall has trouble with does Spiritomb actually check besides Rankurusu though? If it only counters one really common thing, than it's nearly a dead weight, especially with the huge amount of threatening new Pokemon that stall has to be able to counter? And then consider what else is vying for that spot on the stall team, with huge threats like SD Terakion and SD Landlos that common stall has issues playing against?
Me too.
I guess people are going like this: "Oh,this high ranked player is nominating that mon? Well,I'm gonna nominate it too <3"
A question.
How many people even run full stall anymore? I've only seen very few. I've seen more Hail teams than dedicated stall teams. Quickstall and Semi-stall are the most common forms.
Why'd you let it CM twice before Taunting?
Who runs max attack Tyranitar in a metagame where its role is to stop Latios. Why would you run a Tyranitar that's 2HKO'd by Draco Meteor. Max Attack Tyranitar didn't exist on the ladder during the suspect test. The typical Specially Defensive Tyranitar did something like 55% with Crunch, an easy KO for a +1 Rank Focus Blast. And having 50% health left for Rank with that bulk is very easy to Recover off, especially since you can bring it in on Nattorei who's on every single team without any worry and get back to 100%.
Who cares, its not a KO is it? You Recover off the DM and CM up. Your calc didn't show anything except that you prove my point of Latios not being able to kill a full health Rankurusu, which is exactly what I said. Read.
It's not a stall team then, its more of a semi-stall team (I hate using the term but what else should I call it). The reason you can't run a team of 6 walls is exactly the point of why Rank is being considered a suspect: it absolutely decimates them. And, to be quite honest, I don't know how good you are at this game, but I've run Rankurusu and beaten the top player on the ladder with it alone multiple times. Additionally, I qualified for voting for both of the periods, so I'd like to say my battling experience carries more weight than yours, not to sound condescending.
Melodramatic.
I feel everybody had huge issues with him but were too afraid of being laughed at for nominating lol Reuniclus of all things.
Then Jabba nominated it and no one laughed at him.
Then it started.
Most likely because you can't safely bring in the Taunter without risk of it being OTR Rankurusu and outspeeding and OHKOing it, meaning you have to switch first to something that can take a hit from OTR Rank and then proceed to pivot to your Taunter if it Calm Minds.
Wow. You're just,wow.
So if something can't be easily killed,it's broken?
You still act as if he can instantly heal up 80% of his HP and he has a move for everything along with perfect prediction skills.
And? I could have reached 1400 easily. I went up to 1280.
School started and I got bored and decided to have FUN.
Otherwise I would have the requirements,it's not your automatically know more than me just because you have a higher rank.
I am so glad that other people had the same Reunculus problems I did. I tried 5 iterations of stall teams, and the final one was pretty solid. However, if the opponent had Reunculus, I always lost. I just assumed that I was a bad team builder, but couldn't think of a way to deal with the stupid thing without making the team way way worse against other things. Maybe stall just isn't meant to be viable anymore, but I will at least put my experience into the ring as saying that yes, Reunculus seriously messes up full stall.
You need to consider the facts outside your biases (not a personal attack, this goes out to every debater here, even myself). Reuniclus carries great coverage, is very bulky, and is nearly impossible to defeat with a normal stall team without something like Banded T-tar that serves no other useful purpose on stall outside of countering Reuniclus. With a simple TR set, it can rip through offense as well. This thing has the potential to do away with heavy stall altogether, something that must be avoided
What was your team?
That's fine.
I agree. He's very good.
But how do we diffirentiate if he's just really good,broken,or people are just lazy?
There are a crapton of stall breakers now,so it's not just Rankurusu that's making full stall "univable".
Stall teams have always had problems with last Pokemon stat uppers. Just think of Rankurusu like that - what do you do with the last Pokemon on a stall team? Perish Song? Just keep attacking it? Something like CurseLax, for example, is hell to take down if its the last Pokemon against a stall team. It's not broken though, you just have to think about these things before making a team.
Either Rankurusu has no recovery, no boosting move or it doesn't have perfect coverage (unless it drops its STAB). It can't have all of them.
Either Rankurusu has no recovery, no boosting move or it doesn't have perfect coverage (unless it drops its STAB). It can't have all of them.
The more I consider it, the more I can see exactly how Rankurusu would prove broken, in terms of beating both offence and stall. I'll explain each:
In terms of beating offence, it initially seems like Rank gets few abilities to setup. If it switches into a lot of things it risks being 2HKOd before getting the TR off. However, whenever it gets a free switch by whatever means into something which either a)lacks taunt, b)lacks a move to OHKO it and can be OHKOd back or c)lacks a move to 2HKO it and can be 2HKOd back, it can set up TR and have four turns of fun with the offensive team. Whilst this is certainly very threatening, it seems to me at least that this in itself is not broken, as the four turns can be worked around, and TR can play havoc with your own team. If offense builds with TR Rank in mind, it should be able to deal with it.
However stall is a different kettle of fish. Magic Guard and such bulk combined with CM is admittedly deadly - with there being few ways to beat it without packing one of a few very specific counters, though they do exist. This isn't a problem, except that these counters have limited use to stall otherwise and it cannot deal with other metagame threats. Perish Songing it when it is the last poke seems the best bet.
In terms of all the "it cannot carry everything" being thrown around, of course it can't, but only one should threaten a particular type of team and that is the only one it needs to consider.
Banning Magic Guard seems absurd to me. The ability to avoid all passive damage is incredible, yes, but certainly not broken. Rank compared to Clefable is clear evidence that only good stats in combination with MG result in a broken pokemon.
Anyway, all this leads me to my final point - that though I can clearly see how Reinculus threatens offense, but also stall in particular, severely, the fact is that with Drizzle still being present and the meta being centralised around powerful SS/Rain teams, Reinculus simply is unlikely to be broken. Rain's water boost poses his bulk serious issues, and Dory/Landorus can smack him around too (not to mention TTar). The same point i have made about many suspects applies here - we seem to be nominating many things preemptively, under the assumption that Drizzle will be banned along with maybe some SS abusers, and that some other nominees (ie Reinculus or Drought) will be broken in the meta formed when whatever is banned this round leaves. This may well be true, but surely we should wait until we actually know what the meta will be like after the current round to ban things in Reinculus' situation? Preemptive nominations seem nonsensical to me.
In terms of beating offence, it initially seems like Rank gets few abilities to setup. If it switches into a lot of things it risks being 2HKOd before getting the TR off. However, whenever it gets a free switch by whatever means into something which either a)lacks taunt, b)lacks a move to OHKO it and can be OHKOd back or c)lacks a move to 2HKO it and can be 2HKOd back, it can set up TR and have four turns of fun with the offensive team. Whilst this is certainly very threatening, it seems to me at least that this in itself is not broken, as the four turns can be worked around, and TR can play havoc with your own team. If offense builds with TR Rank in mind, it should be able to deal with it.
However stall is a different kettle of fish. Magic Guard and such bulk combined with CM is admittedly deadly - with there being few ways to beat it without packing one of a few very specific counters, though they do exist. This isn't a problem, except that these counters have limited use to stall otherwise and it cannot deal with other metagame threats. Perish Songing it when it is the last poke seems the best bet.
In terms of all the "it cannot carry everything" being thrown around, of course it can't, but only one should threaten a particular type of team and that is the only one it needs to consider.
Banning Magic Guard seems absurd to me. The ability to avoid all passive damage is incredible, yes, but certainly not broken. Rank compared to Clefable is clear evidence that only good stats in combination with MG result in a broken pokemon.
Anyway, all this leads me to my final point - that though I can clearly see how Reinculus threatens offense, but also stall in particular, severely, the fact is that with Drizzle still being present and the meta being centralised around powerful SS/Rain teams, Reinculus simply is unlikely to be broken. Rain's water boost poses his bulk serious issues, and Dory/Landorus can smack him around too (not to mention TTar). The same point i have made about many suspects applies here - we seem to be nominating many things preemptively, under the assumption that Drizzle will be banned along with maybe some SS abusers, and that some other nominees (ie Reinculus or Drought) will be broken in the meta formed when whatever is banned this round leaves. This may well be true, but surely we should wait until we actually know what the meta will be like after the current round to ban things in Reinculus' situation? Preemptive nominations seem nonsensical to me.
Well,ya,we should at least wait till Drizzle is banned until we start testing out Reuniclus.
Though I still don't find it broken.
Though I still don't find it broken.
So instead of supporting your point, you make an absolutely absurd one instead. What is the reasoning to test it post-Drizzle? Nothing relevant really would've changed
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