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Hydreigon
- Thread starter R.B.G.
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I'm tired of Wobbuffet revenge killing my Latios with Mirror Coat, and Sazandora is immune to it so yeah... Mirror Coat immunity, Pursuit resist, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, U-turn, and the ability to go physical/mixed are good enough reasons to use him over Latios. I think Sazandora is the better Life Orb user while Latios is the better Specs user, and Sazandora is better at Scarf (Trick is nice for Lati@s though).
No, Genosect, while excellent with equally great coverage, does not have STAB Dragon, which is by far the best STAB to have in the game. That alone means Sazandora is not outclassed.
Different Pokemon. I fear a U-Turn from a Genosect more than I would from a Sazandora, but switching into a STAB Draco Meteor off a huge Special Attack is never nice.
Different STABs and some different attacks.
Don't try to compare them....Genosect is more epic with an RP set anyway :P
@Above poster
Well,Genosect has download which is basically a Band/Specs upon switching in along with a STABed U-turn and he will always out speed Hydreigon by a single point of speed.
@Lork
I don't know why you say DW, its (both Sazandora and genesect) ability remains the same.
And to answer your question, no. Both pokemon function differently. You might as well compare apples to oranges. I agree with TLK; Dragon type STAB is not something that should not be taken lightly. Genesect on the other hand, does not have very good STABs.
I don't know why you say DW, its (both Sazandora and genesect) ability remains the same.
And to answer your question, no. Both pokemon function differently. You might as well compare apples to oranges. I agree with TLK; Dragon type STAB is not something that should not be taken lightly. Genesect on the other hand, does not have very good STABs.
Genosect is only available on PO in the DW tier since he's unreleased.
I wouldn't say Bug isn't a good STAB. Bug is a fine STAB to have, but Genosect will either be scarfed and opt for U-Turn instead of Bug Buzz (along with Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam) or it will be Rock Polish and either use it's STAB Bug Buzz and risk being walled by something, or have no STAB.
Bug is a good STAB, but when you have impeccable coverage in its other moves it makes fitting the STAB in rather difficult.
(to the other poster, I did briefly remember that Geno had Download, which is such an epic ability but forgot to mention it)
Comparing Sazandora to Genosect is kinda random, all they have in common is similar special attack and speed.
But unlike Sazandora, Genosect doesn't have a crushingly powerful and nearly unresisted move like Sazandora's Draco Meteor.
In terms of Speed, 98 or 99 is equal : you outspeed Ononokus without outspeeding base 100s. Genosect doesn't even have U-Turn over Sazandora, which has a more unique set of resists too. Sazandora is usually just better.
But unlike Sazandora, Genosect doesn't have a crushingly powerful and nearly unresisted move like Sazandora's Draco Meteor.
In terms of Speed, 98 or 99 is equal : you outspeed Ononokus without outspeeding base 100s. Genosect doesn't even have U-Turn over Sazandora, which has a more unique set of resists too. Sazandora is usually just better.
It really depends.
Genosect's coverage is amazing,and having a Bug STAB is nice for all those Psychic and Dark type mons.
Genosect will always out speed Hydreigon,and can hit quite hard with those Download boosts.
actually latios has dragon dance so does have the ability to pull off mixed sets just as, if not more effective then sazandora
Let's make a list of mixed attackers that work without setup and then a list of mixed attackers that work with setup. I assure you the former will be a longer list. Being able to fire off a Draco Meteor followed by an Outrage is far better than taking the time to boost. Unless you are using something with Cheer Up, Growth, or Shell Smash, which boost both attack stats.
Sazandora doesn't have to set up when running a mixed attacking set, unlike how latios would have to DD first.
Latios has a wider special movepool anyway.
that's ONE move. any other physical move, Latios must set up. Sazandora can actually run a good mixed set (that is, if you've tried it.) besides, seems to me the only notable pokemon that would be hit by that are fighting types. Latios is btter off running draco meteor or dragon pulse for main STAB.
lawl, Blissey isn't the only wall. Outrage is a more effective wall breaking move than psychic, come on. You hit Tyranitar harder than you would with Draco Meteor, and obviously Psycho Shock doesn't even hurt it for Latios.
Sazandora's 4 Atk LO Outrage vs. 252/252+ Blissey: 44.5% - 52.5%
Latios' LO Psycho Shock vs. 252/252+ Blissey: 43.3% - 51%
That's with minimum investment on Sazandora's part... with maximum Attack it reaches 309 Attack and 287 Special Attack. It does 55.9% - 65.7% with Outrage to the same Blissey.
Most Latios run Choice specs (which mixed sandy can't do, since it doesn't boost outrage) and surf hits ttar SE, hitting less defensive versions for a 2hko (or with SR/spikes support). While blissey isn't the only wall, it's the main special wall. And psychic is not a bad coverage type this gen, with all the fighting types, and I've used it to clean up before.
I Repeat: ONLY fighting types. with a Dragon-type STAB, psychic is knocked down a few pegs. Blasphemy explained (and calculated) how sazandora's outrage can be more effective. you say latios can use choice specs on his "mixed set." IMO, running a choice item on a mixed set with only psycho shock to beat special walls is simply poor judgement.
I don't thing there are many things in the game that can not be 2HKOed by DM + Outrage or 2 hits of Outrage. Cresselia worked for Mence, but Sazandora has Dark STAB.
A so-called "mixed set" by just sticking Psycho Shock on a Specs Latios is just ineffective, as Granstafer pointed out. Being locked into a psychic-type move is the worst thing ever.
A so-called "mixed set" by just sticking Psycho Shock on a Specs Latios is just ineffective, as Granstafer pointed out. Being locked into a psychic-type move is the worst thing ever.
Not when their ttar/scizor is already dead. Psychic's not nearly as bad an offensive type as you guys are making it out to be. 1 resist (which is the most defensive type in the game and also reists dragon) and one immunity (which is rare outside of ttar, and maybe Sazandora/Barujina). And with latios' extra power and choice specs, most things are being 1-2hko'd by his DM anyway. He doesn't need outrage or physical attack.
U-turn and pursuit resist are the only two things sazandora has over latios.
U-turn and pursuit resist are the only two things sazandora has over latios.
Psycho Shock is great for Latios, people need to reconsider their stances. Being able to what, 2HKO its biggest check is a great boon to Latios, and you WILL know whether or not they have Tyranitar or Scizor (the only real Pursuit-users this meta) by the time it comes around to deciding whether or not to use Psycho Shock. Let's be real.
However, I heavily disagree that U-Turn and Dark resist are the only things Sazandora has over Latios.
For one, it is physically bulkier, to the point where it can actually survive Adamant Roopushin's +1 Mach Punch if given a mere 64 HP EVs (pretty good considering it is weak to it). Extend this to the likes of Bullet Punch and Extremespeed and you see that Sazandora is slightly less susceptible to priority.
Second, its higher attack stat allows it to more viably run a mixed or physical set, the latter still being effective due to its unique type combination.
Third, Sazandora does not need to place as large an emphasis on speed as Latios, which has various implications for its sets. First and foremost, Sazandora can easily use a Modest nature and 280 speed, which makes its Draco Meteor actually superior to Latios' and still gives it the speed advantage over relevant threats. Second, Sazandora is still fast enough to outrun Stall teams and utilize trademark tactics of the Dark-type, such as Taunt and Torment (we all know how effective Taunt + U-Turn Gliscor was last gen).
Fourth, Sazandora actually has a wider and more relevant movepool than Latios does. Ice Beam is irrelevant, meaning that Latios really only has Psychic attacks and Thunderbolt over Sazandora. The Eon twins, meanwhile, would kill to have access to Sazandora's Fire-type moves or even Focus Blast, as it would make their lives significantly less difficult. Sazandora also has access to the ever-useful U-turn, Taunt, Torment, and the situationally useful Dragon Tail, which neither of the Eon twins can boast.
Finally, there is the most obvious difference of typing. The Psychic-typing gives essentially one benefit to the Lati-twins, and that is a Fighting resistance. Other than that, it leaves them susceptible to Bug, Ghost, and Dark attacks (pursuit). Meanwhile, Sazzy has a fighting weakness in exchange for Ghost and Dark resists, a Psychic immunity (which is somewhat more useful in this fighting-centric gen), and the same resistances otherwise, right down to Levitate.
@Arch Tech
Seriously, not when the ttar and scizor is already dead? once again, poor judgement. you're basically screaming: doryuuzu please set up on me! there are plenty of more steel types (and some dark types) running around. Terakion, Roob, and Virizion are the only major offensive threats psycho shock can hit. Especially on latios, who has Dragon STAB, which also only has one resist, outclasses is psychic STAB. and no, u-turn and pursuit resist is NOT the only thing Sazandora has over Latios. Usable physical attack is one of them, allowing Sazandora to run a much more effecient mixed set than Latios EVER could with just psycho shock. blasphemy explained that outrage is more wall breaking than psycho shock. If you so badly want to run a psychic move on latios then run psychic for more power. I have shattered pokemon into pieces with mixed Sazandora. a choiced mixed set completely removes the point of a mixed set.
Seriously, not when the ttar and scizor is already dead? once again, poor judgement. you're basically screaming: doryuuzu please set up on me! there are plenty of more steel types (and some dark types) running around. Terakion, Roob, and Virizion are the only major offensive threats psycho shock can hit. Especially on latios, who has Dragon STAB, which also only has one resist, outclasses is psychic STAB. and no, u-turn and pursuit resist is NOT the only thing Sazandora has over Latios. Usable physical attack is one of them, allowing Sazandora to run a much more effecient mixed set than Latios EVER could with just psycho shock. blasphemy explained that outrage is more wall breaking than psycho shock. If you so badly want to run a psychic move on latios then run psychic for more power. I have shattered pokemon into pieces with mixed Sazandora. a choiced mixed set completely removes the point of a mixed set.
Whats stopping latios from investing in defence and going modest? It'll still outrun everything Sazandora does and more.
Latios's resistance to mach punch is probably better than sandy's slightly higher defences.
And while the Latis would love flamethrower, hp fire is strong enough to ohko natty most of the time, ohko scizor, and 2hko most other steels. Focus blast is good, but there's a reason it's called focus miss. Surf is usually better, with the slight exception of ttar, who needs to run a lot of sp def to avoid a 2hko.
And while psychic isn't as bad an attack type, it is still pretty rare, usually paired with fighting, and less useful than a fighting resist. Dark stab and even the ghost resist could be useful though, I am forced to admit.
Taunt is an advantage I had overlooked, although it starts to give him moveslot syndrome. Dragon tail isn't that much better than roar, especially considering its chance to miss.
I really don't think taunt is that huge an advantage; latis' recovery + cm give them pretty much just as good wallbreaking capacity, and with Sanzandora's raw power and large movepool most things aren't going to stay in to be taunted, they're going to switch to a resist which can theaten it.
First of all, it's ARC Tech.
What does a -2 Draco meteor scream then? Steels are irrelevant here, they resist both psycho shock and outrage. Hell, outrage screams set up doryuuzu even harder, since you're locked in. And it doesn't hit just offensive threats, it hits specially defensive pokemon very hard, such as support politoed, burungeru, and most importantly blissey. And whether a sweeper is mixed or not isn't too important, it's its sweeping ability, and latios has better sweeping ability than sazandora in most cases. And psychic is inferior to psycho shock in most cases, due to the extra power psycho shock has on key threats, and the fact it is not much weaker. Indeed, this makes psycho shock a superior option even over dragon pulse on choice sets.