Reuniclus

[Nanoswine]

What does that have to do with anything. It's like saying "without no guard machamp is shitty while roobushin is still good even without guts. Ban Roobushin!". The fact is they do have magic guard and with it they beat 6 wall stall teams because it isn't hurt in the least by them.

Yea...you lost if your team has 6 walls that can't do any damage to it. If chomp sets up, my team that carries 6 pokemon that can't outspeed it probably lost too. So ban chomp? or get something that can kill it.

I'll say this again, stop using 6 wall stall teams and put some shit that can do damage and play semi-stall. Don't QQ about it because times change. I wish I could go back to 3rd gen and have a team that counters everything too. I wish I can use pokemon I like instead of ugly fucks like roob or breloom. I wish I don't have to run weather to counter weather. But you know what? I do because that's the metagame. Either adapt or quit.

This whole "change to semistall" argument is getting kinda annoying. You want to ban a crapton of Swift Swimmers, or do a complex ability ban to give rain stall a chance, but you won't ban Rankurusu to allow full stall to be viable? Give me a break.

The point of bans is to create a more desirable and diverse metagame. Rankurusu has 2 big sets, one that shuts down full stall, and one that shuts down heavy offense. By banning one Pokemon, we increase the diversity of the metagame tenfold. Isn't that what we're aiming for? Or do we now selectively pick our favorites and do everything in our power to keep them OU?

 

[Disposable Puppets]

I think you guys are over-exaggerating a little bit. I don't think Reuniclus completely shuts down stall 100% of the time or completely demolishes offense 100% of the time either with trick room. It just forces teams to keep it in mind, just like any other top-tier threat.

In my experiences, it's just been a pokemon that requires more planning for than others. I don't particularly think that constitutes banning it though.

 

[666lumberjack]

Uh, it forces it to switch which lets your team set up on it. It also prevents a sweep if Ranku is the last pokemon.
Great, my stall team forced it out. Now what? As I note above, I'm yet to find something that can repeatedly take it's attacks while phazing it over and over. You can't just Phaze it once and say 'lol it'll be their last Poke' because that's not how it works. In order to force it to be their last Pokemon, you have to deal with their entire team while consistently Phazing it repeatedly. This is almost impossible in reality, because it means you need a Pokemon which can constantly switch into it while either taking attack or letting it get to +1, meaning the attack you take while Phazing will hurt even more.


Use Taunt on your stall team. Use Perish Song on your stall team. Use Wobbuffet on your stall team. Use Spiritomb on your stall team. There are plenty of options for stall to deal with it.
Taunt doesn't beat it, it just forces it to kill you. It also only lasts 3 turns, meaning you have to be dang bulky and kill it quickly or you'll end up using Taunt a crapton of times, which is just giving it more opportunities to rip holes in your team.

And even if there weren't, why would "beating stall" mean that something should be banned from all of OU? By this logic we should ban Clefable, Cradily, Terakion, Tyranitar, Wobbuffet, etc etc. I'm going to go out on a limb here but it sounds like your stall team needs work if you instantly lose when Ranku comes out (as you seem to be implying).
No, because Clefable etc. do not beat stall on their own. Stall has reasonable ways to deal with them. In fact, I've never had a serious problem with any of them. I've never had a serious problem with anything apart from Rank that I couldn't fix by tweaking a few Pokemon. I found my team was Dragonite weak, so I replaced Salamence with Gyarados. I found issues with Doryuzuu, so I made changes to help deal with it. This is part of teambuilding, but in ~50 hours of testing I haven't found a single thing which beats Rank while contributing usefully to the team.


It's not our job to tell you how to play. It's your job to come up with new strategies (even though we already have given you plenty). If you are going to quit instead of innovate, then you are precisely the kind of user that we don't want.
I'm not quitting because I don't want to innovate. I'd be quitting because I didn't believe OverUsed was an enjoyable metagame. Also, you say you have given me plenty, but you are yet to give me a good one. If there was a Pokemon that forced say every offensive team to run an otherwise useless or completely outclassed Pokemon, people would clamour for bans, but because it is Stall that is given the treatment, random offense players are coming along screaming 'not broken' because their chosen playstyle does not have trouble with it.

You literally summed up the reason why we have a rating requirement for voters. "Unless someone tells me how to win, I quit". Classic.
That isn't what I said. I said that unless appropriate changes were made to make OverUsed an enjoyable metagame, I would no longer want to play competetive pokemon. Maybe your team doesn't have too much trouble with Rankurusu. Well guess what. I could make a team that doesn't have trouble with Mewtwo, but nobody is arguing that it is not broken.

What does that have to do with anything. It's like saying "without no guard machamp is shitty while roobushin is still good even without guts. Ban Roobushin!". The fact is they do have magic guard and with it they beat 6 wall stall teams because it isn't hurt in the least by them.
No, because nobody really thinks either of them are broken. Clefable is nowhere near broken because it is reasonably easy to take measures which allow it to be reliably beaten. The same cannot be said for Rankurusu. Clefable will basically never beat Chansey because even at +6, 'fable isn't doing more than about 30%, which means it can be worn down by a good player. But I Am yet to find a reasonable way to beat Rankurusu. That means no crippling my team against half the meta to beat it.

Yea...you lost if your team has 6 walls that can't do any damage to it. If chomp sets up, my team that carries 6 pokemon that can't outspeed it probably lost too. So ban chomp? or get something that can kill it.
Ok, so say my team is 6 walls. I beat Chomp just fine, provided my hazards are up. (And if they aren't, I'm in deep shite anyway). The difference is that Garchomp can be reasonably beaten. Rankurusu can not, at least in my experience.

I'll say this again, stop using 6 wall stall teams and put some shit that can do damage and play semi-stall. Don't QQ about it because times change. I wish I could go back to 3rd gen and have a team that counters everything too. I wish I can use pokemon I like instead of ugly fucks like roob or breloom. I wish I don't have to run weather to counter weather. But you know what? I do because that's the metagame. Either adapt or quit.
I don't run weather and I don't want a team that counters everything. I want a team where my chosen playstyle can be competetive in the OverUsed enviroment. I want a team where being a Stall player doesn't mean I'm crippled. If there is a Pokemon which reliably beats stall on it's own, well, it should be banned as outlined in 'Characteristics of a Desirable Pokemon Metagame'. I want a metagame where being a stall player doesn't mean I'm completely crippled.

Semi-stall doesn't fare any better against Rankurusu, unless it is also running totally shit Pokemon.

I will reiterate what I said before. Build a 5th gen stall team which works and deals with Rankurusu. Then you can reasonably comment on whether Rankurusu is broken or not. Until then, stop suggesting random things that you, as an offense player, think will deal with it, because the reality is that theorymon is rarely perfect. You keep suggesting random stuff, but it doesn't seem as though you understand the underlying point. Rankurusu is broken because a Stall team cannot reliably counter it without making changes which have a significant detrimental effect on the team as a whole.

 

[blasphemy1]

All I really run is stall, and I'm not great, but I've seen plenty of Reuniclus getting to 1220ish. Blissey + Spiritomb/Sableye shits on Reuniclus. Blissey for Trick Room variants that rarely have Recover, and the Dark/Ghosts for CM variants. You don't even need Spiritomb or Sableye to run boosting moves because they are immune to Psychic + FB. CM or TrickScarf Latias fits on stall teams (TrickScarf is nice because it can switch into things trying to cripple your walls). Togekiss with Encore fits on stall teams. Walrein with Encore fits on hail stall. Politoed with Encore fits on rain stall. Jumpluff with Encore fits on sun stall. Not much else can be said. The opponents of Reuniclus apparently haven't tried everything, and if they did they'd see these Pokemon aren't shit.

 

[Disposable Puppets]

Why is using Spiritomb frowned upon for countering Reuniclus? If it deals with Reuinclus, isn't that worth using on your stall team? It's not like all it can do is beat Reuniclus and nothing else. It's fairly bulky and can run pursuit for things like Starmie. Nobody used Tentacruel last gen until people realized how well it could counter Infernape (another enemy for stall) but then everyone started using it. Why is Spiritomb ignored due to its utility of countering a major enemy to stall?

 

[astrohawke]

This whole "change to semistall" argument is getting kinda annoying. You want to ban a crapton of Swift Swimmers, or do a complex ability ban to give rain stall a chance, but you won't ban Rankurusu to allow full stall to be viable? Give me a break.

The point of bans is to create a more desirable and diverse metagame. Rankurusu has 2 big sets, one that shuts down full stall, and one that shuts down heavy offense. By banning one Pokemon, we increase the diversity of the metagame tenfold. Isn't that what we're aiming for? Or do we now selectively pick our favorites and do everything in our power to keep them OU?

I advocate banning things that are broken and not be ban happy and banning everything that we can't deal with. Most people who have been playing realizes that drizzle + swift swim together creates pokemon that are both too fast and too strong and is therefore pretty broken. Instead of banning drizzle, I want to keep as much of the non-broken aspects of the game intact as possible and since I believe it's the combination of drizzle + swift swim that makes them broken, I support separation of the 2.

I never wanted to ban a bunch of swift swimmers. At first I wanted to ban swift swim itself as it would be banning the least since no pokemon would get banned and drizzle would still allow for both rain offense and stall to be viable. I then supported separating drizzle and swift swim because the result would mean not really banning anything while solving the major problem albeit being a bit complicated as far as banning rules go. Giving rain stall a chance and allowing for more diverse strategies comes second to maintaining as much of what is not broken as possible. That's always my main concern.

Full stall is not completely destroyed by rankurusu as there are counters as people have listed. The problem is they don't want to use them because they think pokemon like spiritomb are bad. I keep suggesting semi-stall because 1. He doesn't want to use certain counters and 2. I feel full stall isn't very viable now anyway and it's not just because of rankurusu. Rankurusu is just one of many pokemon that don't have too many "popular" counters and full stall will end up being swept by something regardless. So you can either accept that full stall just isn't going to work as well this gen and change your strategy or you can attempt to ban things until it does work.

Semi-stall doesn't fare any better against Rankurusu, unless it is also running totally shit Pokemon.

I will reiterate what I said before. Build a 5th gen stall team which works and deals with Rankurusu. Then you can reasonably comment on whether Rankurusu is broken or not. Until then, stop suggesting random things that you, as an offense player, think will deal with it, because the reality is that theorymon is rarely perfect. You keep suggesting random stuff, but it doesn't seem as though you understand the underlying point. Rankurusu is broken because a Stall team cannot reliably counter it without making changes which have a significant detrimental effect on the team as a whole.

Just so you know, I don't play offense. I played stall in gen 4 and I'm currently playing semi-stall. Semi-stall entails that you have at least 2-3 pokemon that can at least hit reasonably hard. Say rankurusu comes in, it CMs while I switch in one of my offensive pokemon. Now as long as I'm not weak to psychic/focus blast (the 2 commonly used moves in CM variants), I can usually take 1 hit and either 2HKO or 3HKO it. If I 2HKO it, then it dies after only hitting me once. If I 3HKO it, then it's on something like 30% when I bring something else in to finish it. Either way, it's never going to sweep my whole team. This is from actual experience and not theorymon. And using a semi-stall team, TR variants are pretty much walled like any special attacker and worn down with whatever special wall you're using like chansey/blissey as it now lacks recovery.

 

[666lumberjack]

The main problem with what both of you have said is that a stall team doesn't have a free slot. If something is going in, it must contribute to the team beyond countering one Pokemon, especially with the additional variety Gen 5 brings. The issue with 'tomb/eye is that they would obvously have to fall into the spinblocker role, but neither of them is any good at spinblocking compared to Pokemon like Dusclops. Pretty good defenses aren't enough when you could be eating Dory's Earthquakes while spinblocking one moment, and Starmie's Rain-boosted Hydro Pump the next. A spinblocker this generation must be REALLY bulky, not just quite bulky. Also, if Rank runs Shadow Ball, It's putting serious dents in both of them. Trick doesn't really beat it because anything which has a remote chance of carrying Trick will just get switched out of. Encore likewise just forces a switch, but Rank can switch entirely without penalty so you aren't really affecting it much. You can argue that waiting until it is the last Pokemon works, but you have to be able to reliably force it out many times to do that. Encore also fails if you get outpredicted. I also find that a trickscarfer doesn't fit with the additional stuff to counter this gen, but that may be just me.
Also, you saying full stall doesn't work this generation is bullcrap. Drizzle, Dory, Landlos etc. can quite easily be dealt with by a good stall team, but Rankurusu cannot. I don't enjoy playing offense at all. If it gets to the point where offense is the only viable playstyle, then competitive Pokemon has degenerated to the point where I don't feel it has the sophistication that used to exist. If that is the case, I will stop playing because that defeats the whole thing i enjoy about competetive pokemon.

 

[alphatron]

Deoxys-D @ leftovers
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 Hp/ 56 Def/ 200 SDef
-Cosmic Power
-Taunt
-Substitute
-Recover

Relatively simple. You come in on anything rank does (save for LO Shadow Ball) and you pp stall him or force him out. If he gets forced out, great. You can now set up on and pp stall/toxic stall (assuming you're running toxic spikes) whatever pokemon your opponent just brought in. If you want to ensure that you aren't 2HKO'd by even a potential shadow ball, then go calm and run max SDef. Nuetral shadow ball won't even hit you for 50%, and with leftovers it becomes a 3HKO. After a cosmic power, bold deo-D is taking 27.6% - 32.9% from shadow ball. Taunt is to keep Rank from actually setting up any further than he already has. The best thing about this set is its abilities to dodge critical hits and flat out beats rank/reuniclus if you set up early before your opponent ever switched in rank. And he only needs one cosmic power.

The same deoxys, but with red card over leftovers and recycle over substitute can also win against rank by PP stalling, but will have to watch out for crits (and trick from other pokemon). He can also force rank out just by switching in and can avoid the 2HKO from shadow ball since...rank won't be there anymore. He can also potentially set up after forcing rank out since he'll have a bit over 1/2 of his health.

Has deoxys-D already been mentioned? A full stall pokemon that doesn't require you to go semi-stall at all should be a good idea...

 

[XomOfChaos]

I'll admit I'm not the best player, but my Stall team usualy gets through this thing. I run a trickband Dusknoir. It may not be ideal, but it is bulky enough to take some abuse, capable of picking off weakened mons with Shadow Sneak or Sucker Punch, and it can slaughter things with a surprise elemental punch or EQ. It was added to my team to counter Reuniclus, but it can hold its own in alot of other situations.

That said I'm sure I could replace it with a better 'mon if Reuniclus were to disappear.

 

[astrohawke]

The main problem with what both of you have said is that a stall team doesn't have a free slot. If something is going in, it must contribute to the team beyond countering one Pokemon, especially with the additional variety Gen 5 brings. The issue with 'tomb/eye is that they would obvously have to fall into the spinblocker role, but neither of them is any good at spinblocking compared to Pokemon like Dusclops. Pretty good defenses aren't enough when you could be eating Dory's Earthquakes while spinblocking one moment, and Starmie's Rain-boosted Hydro Pump the next. A spinblocker this generation must be REALLY bulky, not just quite bulky. Also, if Rank runs Shadow Ball, It's putting serious dents in both of them. Trick doesn't really beat it because anything which has a remote chance of carrying Trick will just get switched out of. Encore likewise just forces a switch, but Rank can switch entirely without penalty so you aren't really affecting it much. You can argue that waiting until it is the last Pokemon works, but you have to be able to reliably force it out many times to do that. Encore also fails if you get outpredicted. I also find that a trickscarfer doesn't fit with the additional stuff to counter this gen, but that may be just me.
Also, you saying full stall doesn't work this generation is bullcrap. Drizzle, Dory, Landlos etc. can quite easily be dealt with by a good stall team, but Rankurusu cannot. I don't enjoy playing offense at all. If it gets to the point where offense is the only viable playstyle, then competitive Pokemon has degenerated to the point where I don't feel it has the sophistication that used to exist. If that is the case, I will stop playing because that defeats the whole thing i enjoy about competetive pokemon.

You can make excuses about everything with IFs and BUTs. If given the choice of not getting swept by rankurusu or being able to fully wall every spinner, I would definitely choose the former. It's not like tomb can't spin block either.

And as for me saying full stall not working, you listed 3 threats. There are threats that only have 2-3 counters which makes it impossible for a team of 6 to effectively deal with them all. Give me your full moveset/EVs and I guarantee I can find more holes in your team than just rankurusu.

 

[Kindrindra]

From what I understand, Spiritomb is an almost full-stop to a lot of Reuniclus variants. Any variants not running Magic Guard (say, ones running Regeneration) will not like taking Will-o-Wisp, especially not against a stall team. Also, Spiritomb is immune to two moves that Reuniclus normally runs (Psychic/Psycho Shock and Focus Blast) and takes neutral damage from Shadow Ball in the event that Reuniclus runs it. In fact, Spiritomb's typing means that Reuniclus (or anything else, for that matter) can't hit it for SE, which makes it's role on a stall team quite good. Also, Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak hits Reuniclus on their lower defensive stat, and for SE damage, too. Never mind the fact that he can run Pursuit, which screws over Reuniclus if it tries to switch. And, the best part? Spiritomb outspeeds Reuniclus, allowing it to Taunt the gummy bear, screwing over pretty much any set.

 

[666lumberjack]

So what you are basically saying is that stall teams should stop running an effective spinblocker, a key part of their strategy, just so they can replace it with some piece of crap that will usually win agaisnt a troublesome Pokemon.
Also, yes, the team probably has holes, but other threats can be played around. Rankurusu cannot. It basically says "Have X Pokemon or Lose". There is nothing else that does this outside of Ubers. I will say this again. Make an effective stall team that beats it, then say it is not broken.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

This whole "change to semistall" argument is getting kinda annoying. You want to ban a crapton of Swift Swimmers, or do a complex ability ban to give rain stall a chance, but you won't ban Rankurusu to allow full stall to be viable? Give me a break.

Rankurusu alone doesn't make "full stall" useless. Stop saying it does, because plenty of people have suggested ways for a 6-wall team to beat it. If what you're saying is true, then we need to ban pretty much every top offensive threat, there are plenty of pokemon capable of making full stall useless.

The point of bans is to create a more desirable and diverse metagame. Rankurusu has 2 big sets, one that shuts down full stall, and one that shuts down heavy offense. By banning one Pokemon, we increase the diversity of the metagame tenfold. Isn't that what we're aiming for?

The problem with your argument is that it doesn't know when to stop. By banning every Steel-type, we could make a more diverse and possibly more desirable metagame. Think of how many Normal-, Bug- and Poison-types would become viable if we did that! Isn't that what we're aiming for?

Last gen, we had less than 50 OU pokemon, of which only about 20 were used in 10% of battles. That means more than 400 pokemon had their usage restricted by the top-tier threats. This has happened in every metagame in pokemon history. There will ALWAYS be good pokemon in OU, there will ALWAYS be things you must account for on every team you make, and there will ALWAYS be pokemon that your team loses to if it has a disadvantage. If we banned things on preference, or if we banned things to make the game more diverse, we would be sitting here for years trying to sort things out. It's a lost cause. So we revert to banning only things that prove to be uncounterable by normal means, only the unstoppable pokemon. Rankurusu is far from unstoppable.

Or do we now selectively pick our favorites and do everything in our power to keep them OU?

The opposite question could be asked of the other side and it would hold just as much weight. "Or do we now selectively pick our least-favorites and do everything in our power to make them Uber?". FastFlygon literally said that he wanted to ban Ranku because having it around makes it difficult to play with his favorite type of team. Let's try to keep the subjective questions out of this thread if we're seriously going to discuss banning it.

I will say this again. Make an effective stall team that beats it, then say it is not broken.

I thought you were quitting?

Oh and here's another 6-wall team counter for Ranku: CM Taunt Recover Deoxys-D. You don't even have to Cosmic Power stall like someone else suggested, you can turn Ranku into setup bait for your own team.

 

[alphatron]

No words on the deoxys set?

 

[Bombkirby]

Blissey + Spiritomb/Sableye shits on Reuniclus.

How's Blissey counter Reuniclus? I don't quite understand.

Anyways. I find its easy to beat if you pack Sucker Punch...but I kinda hate how that one Pokemon is forcing me to bring that one move. ^_^' Recover is the ONE thing I just can't stand about Reuniclus. Its bulky enough to survive the average physical attack and it can just shrug off the damage with Recover. That thing is a beastly monster. Not saying its unbeatable though. Its just so beastly.

And a note. Some people say its not that great, but it is with the correct sets.

 

[Arc Tech]

What attack would you run on that deoxys.

And blissey is to absorb predicted shadow balls while being able to take a psychic/focus blast, I assume (it's probably the most used normal type too).

 

[Bombkirby]

What attack would you run on that deoxys.

And blissey is to absorb predicted shadow balls while being able to take a psychic/focus blast, I assume (it's probably the most used normal type too).

Ah. Never seen one with Shadow Ball yet. Makes sense though. Thing is the boosting variety doesn't care about Seismic Toss cuz of recover, and it eventually should get high enough stats that it can kill Blissey by merely glancing at it.

 

[alphatron]

What attack would you run on that deoxys

You don't need any damaging attacks; you only need cosmic power, substitute, taunt, and recover. Magic Coat can be slashed over taunt if you're worried about things faster than you carrying status attacks (Sableye and Murkrow aside, the MH pokes will not bother you). Red card recycle deoxys will be running recycle over the substitute.

 

[666lumberjack]

Tested Skill Swap+Toxic Chansey, but it was ineffective due to constant switching wearing it down and having to avoid using it as a special wall so it could stay at high enough HP crippled the team against special threats. So that's the last option on your list crossed off. I will test Deoxys, but what attack? If it works, great, I'll shutup about Rank. I'm assuming something like Shadow Ball, but I'd like to know.

 

[Deaga]

So, what exactly does that Deoxys accomplish? I can just keep switching around it and never waste any PP. Hell, anything can even come and just Rapid Spin on its face. Or just setup anything with more than base 90 Speed. (Actually, since it has no Speed, even slower stuff with Speed EVs can setup)

At least pack Toxic somewhere so that your stalling actually does something.

 

[astrohawke]

So what you are basically saying is that stall teams should stop running an effective spinblocker, a key part of their strategy, just so they can replace it with some piece of crap that will usually win agaisnt a troublesome Pokemon.
Also, yes, the team probably has holes, but other threats can be played around. Rankurusu cannot. It basically says "Have X Pokemon or Lose". There is nothing else that does this outside of Ubers. I will say this again. Make an effective stall team that beats it, then say it is not broken.

What you're basically saying is that every stall team needs to run dusclops or be destroyed by either dory or starmie because I'm pretty sure no other ghost can handle both. Also for the purposes of spin blocking, spiritomb does that. You switch in on rapid spin, switch out to a counter when they attack and if they attempt to spin again, you kill them and now are free to set up hazards that won't be spinned.

I can easily make an effective stall team that beats it. All I have to do is put in one of the many things people have been suggesting. Of course then you'll say it can't cover some other threat which will always happen regardless of what 6 wall team you're using. You're acting like none of us play the game and have never gone up again a rankurusu before. As you can tell from the various posts, we all have different ways of dealing with it whether we're using stall, balance or offense. It's just a matter of not refusing to change our teams around a bit.

 

[alphatron]

So, what exactly does that Deoxys accomplish? I can just keep switching around it and never waste any PP. Hell, anything can even come and just Rapid Spin on its face. Or just setup anything with more than base 90 Speed. (Actually, since it has no Speed, even slower stuff with Speed EVs can setup)

At least pack Toxic somewhere so that your stalling actually does something.

You can now set up on and pp stall/toxic stall (assuming you're running toxic spikes)

Have you ever actually faced this deoxys before? If you bring in a spinner, then I can always spin block. If you keep switching around to never waste PP, then I guess that works if you happen to be using reuniclus and sigylyph/clefable on the same team. Against red card deoxys, have fun setting up once and then getting phased out after you're forced to attack. Or have fun setting up once every three turns if you're faster and then failing to kill the deoxys as it stalls you out or burns pp.

Trust me, you won't be needing any actual attacks. Rank will just struggle itself to death.

 

[B0B0]

IMO Rank isnt Uber, he's just a good OU. Im not going to pretend i run stall as i dont, im currently enjoying pretty good success with a SunRoom team (Sun and trick room!). I found it swept through teams until i got into the top 200 in range of the top teams on PO, where rain , sand and Rank tore me apart, but the Rank part is only really relevant. I swapped in Spiritomb to counter Rank and it worked most of the time, but was fairly rubbish if rank wasnt on the other team so i dropped him.
I now run my Ninetales with

Power Swap
Disable
Overheat
WoW

to "counter" him (im just waiting for some wiseguy to pick on my use of counter ..but i digress!) The idea is to steal his boosts , disable him from boosting and generally give him -2 SpAtk if i have the chance.

My point here really is think outside the box rather than labelling something broken as your current team of generic OU pokemon can't handle something.Also dont assume you have to be able to stop something every time you see it for something to be not broken, earlier i beat someone with ease then found him again a couple of hours later with a very similar team and it came down to the last turn on our last pokes because our mons came out in different orders etc, like most games theres a fair amount of luck involved. Rant over :)

 

[Arc Tech]

He said CM not CP. That's why I asked what attack.

 

[gabezj]

A ton of arguments for banning Rank seem to resolve around the fact that it beats a certain playstyle, stall. However, that doesnt make it broken. it just shows that some strategies that used to work dont work any more and people need to adapt to a new metagame rather than banning what makes old things fail. Instead of Rank being broken, the variant of stall that it beats just needs to adapt and change instead of getting rid of stuff thats hard to beat.