What are you talking about?? Everything we have banned in the past was banned because it was broken.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?
- Thread starter Philip7086
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What are you talking about?? Everything we have banned in the past was banned because it was broken.
My point exactly.
broken does not always mean that a pokmon has no counters
You said that Machamp has no counters and is broken because of that. Marth posted that just because something doesn't have a counter doesn't mean it's broken. You then post this piece of wisdom that is completely irrelevent to what you were saying before.
I'm sorry, but Marth is wrong. If something doesn't have any counters, that means it's broken. Even Kefka agrees with me on that. Oh, and thanks for trolling me.
o.k
so following your logic if something does have counters its...not broken?
Garchomp had "counters" in early DP OU however it was still deemed Uber. Heck Latias cannot break SDef Tyranitar and gets owned by Pursuit. But, you guessed it, Latias was declared Uber.
I can name a few pokemon that don't have "counters" yet are still OU. I am sorry but Marth is 100% correct in that We don't ban things because they have no counters.
so following your logic if something does have counters its...not broken?
Garchomp had "counters" in early DP OU however it was still deemed Uber. Heck Latias cannot break SDef Tyranitar and gets owned by Pursuit. But, you guessed it, Latias was declared Uber.
I can name a few pokemon that don't have "counters" yet are still OU. I am sorry but Marth is 100% correct in that We don't ban things because they have no counters.
A check.
It must be able to come in for the revenge kill and force the opposing pokemon or it must be able to switch in on some of the opposing pokemon's move set.
I.E. Heracross checks Reuniclus by being able to switch in on Calm Mind,Recover,or Focus Blast,but is not a counter due to being killed by Psychic/Psycho Shock.
You should learn these definitions T_T
lmitchell0012 I'm seriously starting to think that you're posting here just to toll and to be honest it doesn't surprise me considering your current custom title.
In this post, that I undeleted just to provide evidence, you state that you agree that having no counters doesn't mean that a Pokemon is broken, now you're stating the opposite.
Maybe we're all misunderstanding your thoughts, but really, if you think that Machamp has no counters and that it's broken, then the only thing I can suggest is that you lurk more about the game before posting here.
That being said, I'm pretty sure that everyone who has played V Gen battles agrees that the concept of counter is outdated and should be probably abandoned in this metagame. I believe that if we keep searching for perfect counters, then we'll end up banning many Pokemon which can be played around with intelligent switching and solid team building.
Check does not always mean revenge killing.
Scizor was a "check" for Salamence in that it could switch in on a dragon move and KO with Bullet Punch if Mence had taken enough prior damage.
EDIT
ninja'ed by Kefka
Scizor was a "check" for Salamence in that it could switch in on a dragon move and KO with Bullet Punch if Mence had taken enough prior damage.
EDIT
ninja'ed by Kefka
moving the discussion along I feel Reuniclus is really powerful .I am not going to suggest that its "broken" but it is excetionally annoying since certain sets screw over entire teams. Stall get ripped apart by the CM + Recover version unless they have Spiritomb or a CM + Roar Latias. Offensice teams dislike the Trick Room sets etc. I am just finding it very tough to counter or check.
I'm not trying to troll. Maybe I don't understand the definitions of these terms 'check', 'counter', etc. Can someone explain to me what these mean. I thought I knew, but apparently I don't.
That was a typo on my part.
Reuniclus is the the main reason why I've started using Shubarugo on my teams.
I've never had a huge problem with Reuniclus, because when it sets up on me I just switch in Volcarona and beat it in the setup war. Fortunately, not many of them run Trick/Toxic, but I'm pretty sure I could at least tie with the Reuniclus in that scenario. I guess that if I ever want to play a team without Volcarona, I'd have to start running Escavalier or CBzor more frequently. That or CBtar, but I don't really feel like doing a sand team.
Lol, you fail to understand what you're quoting. Something can be broken but have counters. It just needs to have incredibly niche counters that hamper a team's effectiveness significantly against a team that does not carry the specific poke you are countering
I completely disagree. The concept of counters shifted from gen 3 to gen 4 (more set oriented than pokemon oriented), sure. There's been very little change from gen 4 to gen 5 and counters still play a very large part of the game. I have no idea why you would say something like that when it just isn't true.
I mean I guess I can understand that some people have adapted playstyles where counters don't play a huge role, but there are plenty of people still out there (including myself) that still play with a counter mentality.
I agree with this. Set-oriented countering is definitely the norm nowadays, and although there do exist pokemon that have 100% counters to every set (like Zapdos to Scizor), it is not, nor should it be, a requirement for a pokemon to remain comfortably in OU.
vaguely continuing with that line of thought I have seen a huge increase in Sun Teams. They are new a problem for me especially when Volcaroa takes 75% switching in. I suppose the increase in Sun was expected when Swift Swim + Drizzle was banned
Dragons are generally effective at taking on sun teams, I find, resisting the main offensive types found on it and having an easier time with steels due to the sun they themselves provide. The Lati twins and Dragonite come to mind, the former having high power and SpD and the latter having priority to pick off a weakened Chlorophyll sweeper after clobbering it.
I actually agree more with Haunter when he says that the concept of a "counter" has become less and less important. With this new Gen, there are more and more Pokemon with no "perfect counters," such as SD+RP Terakion. When you then factor in the fact that the most common type of team as of now is offensive (I think), then we are faced with the fact that even more Pokemon have no "viable counters." Let's face it, if Pokemon A counters Pokemon B, then odds are A is a bulky wall that can't be used offensively. Due to this, most offensive teams don't carry a single counter, preferring to use Choice Scarf or priority to check. Yes, bulky teams still use counters, but less and less offensive teams use counters. I remember reading somewhere that the only offensive pokemon that could "counter" Excadrill are Conkeldurr and Techniloom.
In any case, whether or not a pokemon is broken can not be judged by whether or not it has counters. Several pokemon have no counters, or have niche ones. Rather, I think it is whether or not the pokemon can be checked and how easily it can be checked. If a pokemon cannot be checked or countered, then it should be considered broken.
In any case, whether or not a pokemon is broken can not be judged by whether or not it has counters. Several pokemon have no counters, or have niche ones. Rather, I think it is whether or not the pokemon can be checked and how easily it can be checked. If a pokemon cannot be checked or countered, then it should be considered broken.
If this isn't the way to determine whether or not a pokemon is broken, then how does one determine whether a pokemon is broken or not?? I'm trying to learn, so please don't bash me, ok.
Okay for You Information, conkell dont OHKO with mach punch without boost EVERY time. So only breelom probably works fully. They can be counted as a counter but a very shaky one tbh
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