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Snorlax

I think we're far enough into the metagame to start talking about tiering...

So it's almost certain that Snorlax will not be OU this Gen. :(
But I can see this guy beasting it up in UU.

I will use it on every UU team I make cuz Snorlax has been my favorite poke since Gen1.
 
I'd certainly use it. Although I was curious if I could get some opinions on my Last Resort idea. I think the sheer power with STAB would be really worthwhile.
 
Jaroda said:
I'd certainly use it. Although I was curious if I could get some opinions on my Last Resort idea. I think the sheer power with STAB would be really worthwhile.

Well, given that Last Resort makes you use all your other moves first, I'd say that it'll be unavailable right when you need it, just like how Focus Blast misses right when you need it.

The power would be incredible, but it seems too situational to me.
 
ok riddle me this

why would one use snorlax over the overall better bouffalant?

the only thing that seems to be of value is a BD set with sitrus berry and thick fat. Specifically, snorlax can run that this gen with nice coverage - Fire Punch, EQ, and Return would seem to work well. Sunny Day or Rain coverage would help get rid of annoying sand. Leftovers + sub works too I guess.

Impish Snorlax@ Sitrus Berry / Leftovers
252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 HP
Belly Drum
Substitute / Fire Punch
Return
Earthquake

Curse seems ineffective with naatorei around, who forces you to run Fire Punch, I.E. no recovery in SS.
 
IcyMan28 said:
Snorlax is way too slow to attempt Belly Drum, which halves one of his most useful stats.

That's the point of Sitrus - makes it only divide it by 3/4.

Plus, what else can it do that is not outclassed or crappy?
 
SlimMan said:
Well, given that Last Resort makes you use all your other moves first, I'd say that it'll be unavailable right when you need it, just like how Focus Blast misses right when you need it.

The power would be incredible, but it seems too situational to me.

You could just delete a few moves. Leave a slot or two blank. I saw it once on PBR wifi. Scary stuff.

Started with my Starmie VS his Slowking.

Tbolt failed to KO it, Slowking used Trick Room.

Slowking died and he sent in Snorlax and used a move...protect or curse I dunno....I forget.

...and then it decided to rip through my team one by one. (PBR lets you use only 3 pokes at a time so my team was smaller.)

I might try that out some time. See how practical it is! It was similar to Fake out -> Last Resort Ambipom but deadlier.
 
Bombkirby said:
You could just delete a few moves. Leave a slot or two blank. I saw it once on PBR wifi. Scary stuff.

Last Resort only works with two moves (Protect + Last Resort in this case) and tends to be pretty poor in practice. Mono-normal sucks.
 
Breludicolo said:
That's the point of Sitrus - makes it only divide it by 3/4.

Plus, what else can it do that is not outclassed or crappy?

CB or Leftovers offensive set. CB STAB Selfdestruct is by no means weak. Otherwise, Belly Drum Snorlax is still going to be crushed by physical attacks, and it will be taking a hit on the way in unless it comes into Shadow Ball, so it'll rarely be at 75% when all is said and done.
 
IcyMan28 said:
CB or Leftovers offensive set. CB STAB Selfdestruct is by no means weak. Otherwise, Belly Drum Snorlax is still going to be crushed by physical attacks, and it will be taking a hit on the way in unless it comes into Shadow Ball, so it'll rarely be at 75% when all is said and done.

Return is half its power and doesn't kill you.

In short, no, and also, why not use bouffalant for that? Has more power with reckless or can grab attack boosts.
 
Bouffalant has lower base attack than Snorlax, which means its Afro Break will probably be equal in power to Return, approximately. Snorlax can also switch into Ice- and Fire- type moves much more easily thanks to Thick Fat, and has STAB Selfdestruct, which only Lickylicky can compete with, I believe.

Bouffalant has decent bulk, but it isn't going to be taking special hits anywhere near the effectiveness of Snorlax.
 
Wait I have it! It MIGHT be able to pull this off...its crazy...its insane....its totally unexpected....ITS...

WORK UP SNORLAX!!!!

If we can raise its special attack JUST enough...it can make use of Fire Blast and Surf! No one would see it coming! Its genius! Flawless! Ferrothorn would be in for a rude surprise!

IcyMan28 said:
STAB Selfdestruct

I believe that lost its appeal thanks to the nerf...? But I'd use it to go out with a bang!!!
 
IcyMan28 said:
Bouffalant has lower base attack than Snorlax, which means its Afro Break will probably be equal in power to Return, approximately. Snorlax can also switch into Ice- and Fire- type moves much more easily thanks to Thick Fat, and has STAB Selfdestruct, which only Lickylicky can compete with, I believe.

Bouffalant has decent bulk, but it isn't going to be taking special hits anywhere near the effectiveness of Snorlax.

110>110?

It's actually roughly 1.4 times as powerful, assuming reckless afro break.

And Selfdestruct is a terrible move gen V.
 
It may have been nerfed, but it is STILL a 200 base power STAB move backed by 350 attack and a CB. A nice way to go out with Snorlax when you know it can't take any more punishment.

EDIT: I for some reason thought Bouffalant's attack was base 100, I'm thinking of Tauros. Regardless, Snorlax can actually get past Ferrothorn and balloon steels since it has access to Superpower, while Bouffalant is out of luck. On top of that, Snorlax using the standard 4/252 neutral spread takes special hits nearly twice as well as Bouffalant - it can actually survive SpecsLatios' Draco Meteor twice nearly all of the time and KO it if it needs to (or run Pursuit, but eh), to give you an example.

And having resistances to 2 common attacking types is pretty big considering normal's lack of resists.
 
Pursuit sounds handy considering the fact its gonna be coming in to take hits from many Ghost/Psychic special attackers like Chandy (especially with thick fat) and as you said Latias.

I might mess around with that Cheer Up idea...heh. I'd love to see Ferro die to Snorlax's fire breath!
 
Yeah, I was curious if I couldn't get just a two or three move Snorlax to work. I mean, with the right support and timing it could be diabolically effective. Something like... Curse, Whirlwind, Last Resort. Curse on turn one. They send in something they expect to handle Snorlax and you Whirlwind it away. Or Whirlwind first to mess up their rythem and then Curse on the switch. Now you're able to abuse Last Resort and if they happen to have a Ghost, Whirlwind let's you phaze and get good passive hazard damage. Max HP and Attack with Leftovers and preferably a Reflect and you're in business. I'm seriously going to try this out. Likewise Curse, Rest, Last Resort could work but you can't Whirlwind your counters away.
 
I do like the idea of a last resort set, something running like substitute, protect, last resort, and some form of move for coverage... Maybe even curse could be in there instead somewhere.

I just hate how long it would take to even try this. Getting set up on would suck, especially if a ghost or steel just came in and then you look silly..
 
A last resort set wouldn't be too effective id imagine. The attack my be strong, bit you are utterly walled by several types and have to take a few hits/provide set up opportunities is you are using a 3 attack set before actually doing damage.
 
IcyMan28 said:
A last resort set wouldn't be too effective id imagine. The attack my be strong, bit you are utterly walled by several types and have to take a few hits/provide set up opportunities is you are using a 3 attack set before actually doing damage.

Well we have team preview now so it'd easy to eliminate the things that are immune to the move.
 
Removing possibly two steels or a steel + ghost isn't as easy as you make it seem.

Moreover, there's still that fact that Snorlax can be set up on as it sets itself up. Blaziken switched in? You HAVE to switch unless you get ballsy and Whirwind it as it SD (if it doesn't go straight for the HJK).

You switched in to Starmie's LO Hydro Pump and have 66% of your health left (maybe more like 54% with rocks/spikes). They switch to Conkeldurr as you Curse - you are forced to switch.

You came into Heatran's Fire Blast and lost 30% to hazards + the attack, and use Whirlwind to scout the switch-in, bringing out something that can't really hurt you. You curse...as they just go to their initial switch again, probably forcing you out.


Pretty much any Snorlax set that requires set-up (being forced to use two moves before having a STAB attack counts as set-up in my book) will fail and be generally unsuccessful as this metagame is simply unkind to it. Offensive Lax with a CB is the way to go, or a bulky tank with Leftovers (but offensive moves).
 
Bombkirby said:
Well we have team preview now so it'd easy to eliminate the things that are immune to the move.
Easier said than done. Steels are as popular as ever (Nattorei in particular, between its massive popularity and Iron Thorns), new ghosts (Burungeru, Shandera, Goruugu, Evo Stone Dusclops) make up for Rotom-A's loss, and Tyranitar is all over the place between Sand teams and countering other weather.
 
IcyMan28 said:
Removing possibly two steels or a steel + ghost isn't as easy as you make it seem.

Moreover, there's still that fact that Snorlax can be set up on as it sets itself up. Blaziken switched in? You HAVE to switch unless you get ballsy and Whirwind it as it SD (if it doesn't go straight for the HJK).

You switched in to Starmie's LO Hydro Pump and have 66% of your health left (maybe more like 54% with rocks/spikes). They switch to Conkeldurr as you Curse - you are forced to switch.

You came into Heatran's Fire Blast and lost 30% to hazards + the attack, and use Whirlwind to scout the switch-in, bringing out something that can't really hurt you. You curse...as they just go to their initial switch again, probably forcing you out.


Pretty much any Snorlax set that requires set-up (being forced to use two moves before having a STAB attack counts as set-up in my book) will fail and be generally unsuccessful as this metagame is simply unkind to it. Offensive Lax with a CB is the way to go, or a bulky tank with Leftovers (but offensive moves).

You have to switch? Just give it substitute. Blaziken isn't going to survive Snorlax's attacks by raising it's speed. To break that Sub it has to leave itself exposed.

Taking out Steels isn't hard. Magnezone, surprise HP Fires and other moves make short work of them.

All he has to do is come in, Sub, then a filler move, then Last Resort. Easy as pie.

Sub...Curse/Protect/Etc.....Last Resort. I'm gonna get out there and try this to just prove it can work easily.


voodoo pimp said:
Easier said than done. Steels are as popular as ever (Nattorei in particular, between its massive popularity and Iron Thorns), new ghosts (Burungeru, Shandera, Goruugu, Evo Stone Dusclops) make up for Rotom-A's loss, and Tyranitar is all over the place between Sand teams and countering other weather.

Ferrothorn is easily dealt with, bar the rain team variant. Shandera can be COUNTERED by Snorlax as he has Pursuit and Thick Fat/ Shadow Ball Immunity. Plus most are scarfed and if they are locked into a ghost move it's probably gonna die to pursuit right? Dusclops, is a jerk but I don't see it much. Pringles I really don't see anymore, but he's not too hard to kill. Tyranitar...has nothing to do with this? ^_^'

Really guys lets be realistic. You CAN switch Snorlax out. It doesn't have to stay in and do EVERYTHING. Take care of the 2/3 threats and then you're a-ok.

Enough talk, more action! Time to put him to the test!
 
Sub leaves you more vulnerable to phazing, Pursuit is another move you have to use before you can use Last Resort. And there are lots of other steels; that was just an example.
 
I ran a Sub/Protect/Last Resort Snorlax with a 252 Atk/252 Def spread on PBR wifi and had great success. With team preview it's much easier to prepare for any ghosts/steels/rock types that your opponent may have and prepare accordingly. With the right support, LR Snorlax can be deadly as long as you don't throw him into the fray too soon.
 
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