All of that is true for any other ghost besides maybe Dusknoir in certain situations. Can we seriously just stop bringing this up?
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
- Thread starter reachzero
- Start date
- Status
All of that is true for any other ghost besides maybe Dusknoir in certain situations. Can we seriously just stop bringing this up?
Ive gotten lucky with Blaziken, most times i face that thing it high jump kicks itself to death... if it were me id just use Brick Break.
Blaziken really isn't that great in my opinion. Its power isn't too ridiculous, it's predictable, and is pretty easy to wall. HJK can almost always be used against it, it can be walled by pretty much any pokemon that resists its STABs, and can't set up. Really a non-issue. Sharpedo is a lot better in my opinion. Remove Roobushin and supply one rain and that's one scary shark.
I agree, Blaziken is really easy to take down. Under Rain, I can just switch in Gliscor, and if it's accumulated SDs or Rain is down I just bring in Quagsire. I can also attest to Sharpedo's usefulness, especially as a win condition for Rain Stall teams. It can just come in late-game and literally sweep right through their remaining Pokemon, even if there are still 5 of them. If they have taken a decent amount of prior damage, Waterfall will OHKO. Also, I often pull off midgame sweeps by passing Sharpedo an SD or two from Gliscor.
I'd have to disagree. You really need a combo of rain + gliscor/aother fighting resist not weak to ghost/rock to wall it. Offensive teams have a lot of trouble with protect blaziken. My team only handles it thanks to tornadus and tailwind. It's hard to switch kingdra in directly, since it's ohko'd by HJK in most cases (it needs to be full or near full health to have a chance).
I must concur with this. I have little trouble with Blaziken on my rain stall team (even without using my CB Azumarill, which completely removes it from being able to do anything), as my Nat runs Leech Seed and protect. If you can get it seeded, which isn't even necessary, you can use Protect to get it to hit itself for 50% (as whatever fire move it may be running won't be doing enough to KO me) and then get seed damage, and then with iron thorns+LO if it packs it, it is very easy to revenge withg any kind of priority. Honestly, a Nat in rain can handle it, which is pretty crazy. As for offensive teams, you better hope it doesn't run protect, as if it gets 2 boosts, your Doryuuzu won't be able to take it down.
Your opponent would have to be extremely foolish to use Hi Jump Kick against a Ferrothorn. Even in rain, HJK does barely more damage than Flare Blitz to Ferrothorn, and it obviously isn't worth the risk of being blocked by Protect, which so many Ferrothorn use.
Bulky waters in general can stop him or cripple him.
Vaporeon doesn't get OHKO'd IIRC and does a good deal of damage with Boil Over and then I can either use Protect for the kill or, if he predicts it, I can sacrifice Vaporeon to send out a priority user to finish him off.
IMO, Blaziken is a top threat, but isn't broken.
Vaporeon doesn't get OHKO'd IIRC and does a good deal of damage with Boil Over and then I can either use Protect for the kill or, if he predicts it, I can sacrifice Vaporeon to send out a priority user to finish him off.
IMO, Blaziken is a top threat, but isn't broken.
I'm not saying Blaziken is bad, just that against a team that is prepared for it, it usually does not accomplish much (whereas if a team is prepared for something like Gliscor, it can still provide team support). Protect wrecks it, Gliscor in Rain wrecks it, Quagsire (which people should definitely be using a lot more) wrecks it. My team has all three, so I have never so much as lost a Pokemon to Blaziken.
I mainly take issue with everyone who says "lolsharpedo, blaziken is better" without thinking for a second that they are completely different Pokemon. Sharpedo is just as efficient at tearing down HO teams as Blaziken is, doesn't have to rely on Flare Blitz (dead in 3 turns) or HJK (protect), and most teams aren't prepared for it. On the other hand, Sharpedo is walled more easily, and doesn't have SD. With proper team support, Sharpedo is as good as, if not better than Blaziken.
I mainly take issue with everyone who says "lolsharpedo, blaziken is better" without thinking for a second that they are completely different Pokemon. Sharpedo is just as efficient at tearing down HO teams as Blaziken is, doesn't have to rely on Flare Blitz (dead in 3 turns) or HJK (protect), and most teams aren't prepared for it. On the other hand, Sharpedo is walled more easily, and doesn't have SD. With proper team support, Sharpedo is as good as, if not better than Blaziken.
Vaporeon is 1HKO'd by +2 Hi Jump Kick, as is Suicune and Swampert. All assuming max defence and max hp (against Life Orb Adamant Blaziken).
Tentacruel and Slowbro can stop him, but other than that, it relies on out predicting him, which isn't a good argument at all. Tentacruel needs to invest in max defence to take any sort of hit though, as would Burungeru. Slowbro is a hard counter though.
Flare Blitz does kill Blaziken in three turns. A small price to pay when it kills 3 Pokemon on your opponent's team.
Tentacruel and Slowbro can stop him, but other than that, it relies on out predicting him, which isn't a good argument at all. Tentacruel needs to invest in max defence to take any sort of hit though, as would Burungeru. Slowbro is a hard counter though.
Flare Blitz does kill Blaziken in three turns. A small price to pay when it kills 3 Pokemon on your opponent's team.
Are you sure a +2 HJK doesn't OHKO Vappy? I'm pretty sure it OHKOs Latios!
Hmm, it does.
What did I use to stop Blaziken?(Haven't played in a while)
Oh, right. I made it kill itself with Chandelure switching in on HJKs or wearing it down when it uses Flare Blitz. Then I finish it off with priority.
Either that or I T-wave it with Thundurus ._.
Most of my team threatens Blaziken, so it's not like he can get free boosts
What did I use to stop Blaziken?(Haven't played in a while)
Oh, right. I made it kill itself with Chandelure switching in on HJKs or wearing it down when it uses Flare Blitz. Then I finish it off with priority.
Either that or I T-wave it with Thundurus ._.
Most of my team threatens Blaziken, so it's not like he can get free boosts
I haven't played much lately but when I think back on the prevalence of Blaziken and how powerful it was, nothing really stands out unless I really think about it.
When I see Blaziken in a battle, I don't sit there and say "oh holy shit jesus christ its blaziken." I usually tend to assume he is going to protect and so I try to set up or switch on that first turn. I also tend to run some bulky pokemon so I generally can take a hit, whether its +2 or unboosted. Or I tend to let a priority user finish him off. The best thing I use to counter a Blaziken tends to be my Tentacruel (with a bit of physical defensive EVing). I have also used a Crobat to finish him off before, but usually on the predicted swords dance.
Usually the scenario is a Protect, and then a swords dance, and then a sweep. I usually get the kill on his swords dance, and if I don't, I almost always have a priority user pick him off.
HOWEVER. At the same time... I do remember times that I get wrecked by a Blaziken here and there. I just see them so often, and it never really hassles me that it doesn't tend to make me clench my teeth when I see a Blaziken in a battle. Not like Reuniclus or Latios. THOSE 2 make me plan waaay ahead.
When I see Blaziken in a battle, I don't sit there and say "oh holy shit jesus christ its blaziken." I usually tend to assume he is going to protect and so I try to set up or switch on that first turn. I also tend to run some bulky pokemon so I generally can take a hit, whether its +2 or unboosted. Or I tend to let a priority user finish him off. The best thing I use to counter a Blaziken tends to be my Tentacruel (with a bit of physical defensive EVing). I have also used a Crobat to finish him off before, but usually on the predicted swords dance.
Usually the scenario is a Protect, and then a swords dance, and then a sweep. I usually get the kill on his swords dance, and if I don't, I almost always have a priority user pick him off.
HOWEVER. At the same time... I do remember times that I get wrecked by a Blaziken here and there. I just see them so often, and it never really hassles me that it doesn't tend to make me clench my teeth when I see a Blaziken in a battle. Not like Reuniclus or Latios. THOSE 2 make me plan waaay ahead.
I don't think someone who uses rain, gliscor AND quagsire on the same team is a good judge of how good or otherwise blaziken is. It's obvious you're gonna think it's not too bad when you have so many ways to neuter it.
I don't care if LO flare blitz gets you killed in 3 turns because in those 3 turns you've probably taken down 2-3 pokemon with you. Most likely taken down their gliscor or bulky water opening up the team for clean up by something like dory.
Also outside rain, blaziken is definitely a bigger threat than sharpedo. You're talking about SD vs no SD, way higher BP stab attacks, better defenses and not mach punch weak. Sharpedo is a decent late game cleaner in rain but it doesn't have the sheer wall breaking capacity blaziken has.
the flying typing is not underestimated at all...in ou there are gyarados,salamence,zapdos,skarmory,dragonite,gliscor,tornadus,thundurus and landlos and more,and they are all excellent pokes and very used...
offensively the flying type,if combined with a fighting move,gets almost perfect neutral coverage resisted only by zapdos and thundurus in ou,and defensively it has an immunity to ground moves,and resitances to fighting,bug and grass moves which are all very popural(except grass)!how is that terrible defensively???sure it has also serious weaknesses like weak to sr and ice and electric but that doesn't take away the fact that he has 4 very good resistances and immunities and only 3 weaknesses(little in comparison with the resistances).
add to these the fact that the flying type gets combined perfectly with so many types(steel-flying,ground-flying,electric-flying,water-flying) and the conclusion is that flying is not underastimated at all...at all!
![Requiem[9]](/forums/data/avatars/m/38/38887.jpg?1514734517){kind=avatar}
If you're playing rain and have three checks anyway, it's obviously not a threat. But even then: HP Ice Mixkin gets through Gliscor and Quagsire is 2HKO'd by HJK with any kind of hazards if you switch straight into it. Like any pokemon, it's manageable if you play properly and have a few tools. The problem is, even with those tools, it STILL takes out a bunch of pokemon and almost no pokemon -- Burungeru, Slowbro -- that can just take advantage of it -- unlike Latios, for instance, where half the metagame comes in on it and traps it or gets a free Leech Seed or SR. And even if you do have an Azumarill, by far the most reasonable check, you're often in a predict-wrong-and-lose situation. It's not as visible as Latios because it can't act as a team's glue in the way Latios does but as far as offensive threats go, I'm not sure why so few people think Blaziken is the most dangerous thing in the current metagame.
As for Sharpedo: Sharpedo only really runs one set and can't SD. Blaziken doesn't need weather support, is stronger, can boost, and has two sets, each of which beats the other's counters. Sharpedo is also weak to natural priority: Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, moves that you'd see on a lot of pokemon even if Speed Boost weren't in the metagame. Blaziken is only week to the odd Aqua Jet. In a similar vein, Sharpedo's counters are good pokemon: Skarmory, Nattorei, whatever. Blaziken's counters are pokemon like Burungeru and Slowbro. Sharpedo is a strong, good pokemon: if the metagame settles down and it's not banned, I suspect it'll be a top tier threat. But, to be honest, I don't see how they're remotely comparable. Sharpedo is a good sweeper that will win the game if given proper support, like any other sweeper. Blaziken just suddenly wins the game -- at the very least, killing a check and opening up a sweep for another pokemon.
Personally, I use a 252 Hp/252 Def Donphan and it pretty much walls all pure physical Blaziken. It can switch in any any physical move or SD(assuming it's still +0) and could hit it back hard enough with EQ, which either kills it or does enough damage that something else can come in and pick it off with priority.
Except that many Blaziken run Balloon so they don't get revenged by Dory and beaten by Hippowdon and company. I do if I run Blaziken.
Nanoswine, you say that most teams aren't prepared for it, but is that really true? Most teams carry Nattorei, Virizion, Breloom and Conkeldurr for completely different reasons and if they see a sharpedo, they will already have a pokemon on their team whom they can easily throw into him.
Sharpedo doesn't suck, but I'm not seeing what he has over Blaziken at all. Blaziken runs better mixed sets, works in his own weather and outside of it (not that sharpedo can't work out of rain), better physical sets, has a boosting move, etc...
Edit: By the way, what the hell is your avatar?
Sharpedo doesn't suck, but I'm not seeing what he has over Blaziken at all. Blaziken runs better mixed sets, works in his own weather and outside of it (not that sharpedo can't work out of rain), better physical sets, has a boosting move, etc...
Edit: By the way, what the hell is your avatar?
Well, the main advantage is a deceptively wide movepool, a Rain boost (better tnah a sun boost), and higher initial speed I guess.
I've always thought it was a claymation walrus btw.
I still don't see how Blaziken is such a big threat.
Every time I used him, it was hell trying to get an SD. There are so many things that are just unsafe to boost in front of.
Tell me 5 common pokemon Blaze can set up on. Aside from choiced mon, I can't think of anything.
Every time I used him, it was hell trying to get an SD. There are so many things that are just unsafe to boost in front of.
Tell me 5 common pokemon Blaze can set up on. Aside from choiced mon, I can't think of anything.
Nattorei; that should be enough
I don't see many Blaziken with balloon, but when i do, i just hit it with ice shard, EQ if i survive the next hit, or send in something else with EQ if i die (usually Ononokosu). He would probably die, but as i said i dont see balloon much so i can't remember what happens when i do :P
Nattorei is rarely gutsy enough to stay in on Blaziken. Considering the role as a defensive pivot it generally plays and the number of things it is relied upon to counter, players do not want to risk their Nattorei, when if they are wrong the Nattorei dies and Blaziken is not really worse off.
- Status