It's not like Nattorei is free set up though.
I've been using Blaziken, and it was pretty damn rare when I could get a Swords Dance up.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
- Thread starter reachzero
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It's not like Nattorei is free set up though.
I've been using Blaziken, and it was pretty damn rare when I could get a Swords Dance up.
Kefka, your argument is quite simply "well I'll predict him to set up and I'll use T-Wave". That's poor though, because the Blaziken user could out predict you and just wreck you with Flare Blitz - taking out one of the best defensive Pokemon in the game and getting a +1 speed with it.
Blaziken is only stopped by the fact that finding a free turn to set up is really difficult. However even that can be dealt with with, say, a Wobbuffet or screens or even a Balloon to make "counters" into set up bait. It takes little team support and with one turn of set up basically destroys everything in the game apart from Slowbro and Burungeru (assuming no Shadow Claw - personally I go for Stone Edge but Shadow Claw is good).
Blaziken is only stopped by the fact that finding a free turn to set up is really difficult. However even that can be dealt with with, say, a Wobbuffet or screens or even a Balloon to make "counters" into set up bait. It takes little team support and with one turn of set up basically destroys everything in the game apart from Slowbro and Burungeru (assuming no Shadow Claw - personally I go for Stone Edge but Shadow Claw is good).
I WAS using a Woobbuffet.
Blaziken is just so frail, you can't just Encore and switch over to him. He dies to even a slight breeze.
I'm using the damn thing and it's stupidly hard to get to the point where I can actually OHKO things.
Btw, my argument isn't really "oh hey, just predict", it's that he can't set up.
So many things can threaten him that he can rarely set up.
He either gets crippled, gets his health cut in half, or he just doesn't set up and dies due to not OHKO'ing something.
Then he should have crappy coverage?
SD/Protect/HJK/Fire move isn't exactly good coverage.
A claymation walrus huh? I sort of see it. But is that supposed to be his eyes bugging out through his mouth or something?
In any case, sharpedo's higher base speed does help, and the rain boost is nice to have, although I wouldn't say that the sun boost doesn't matter as much for Blaziken; a sun boost means that CB azumarill can't revenge him if he's healthy. Sharpedo's movepool is nice, I will admit. And if you don't mind giving up a coverage move, taunt is always great to run against things that believe that they could potentially set up on you.
Without sunlight
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Nattorei
Blissey
Dusclops
Forretress (EQ from 112 atk Evs does nothing)
Choice scarf magnezone after he's just killed your forry/ferrothron/scizor
Bronzong
Weaville
In sunlight
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Nattorei
Suicune
Tyranitar
Politoed
Jellicient
Vaporeon
Every single bulky water in the game who isn't part ground
All the pokemon whom you could set up on without sun.
Yes, you can indeed set up on non scarf variants of t-tar and politoed if you're using blaziken on a sun team. Will your opponent allow the only answer to your weather to die and give you free reign, or will they switch out with their tail between their legs. I've done this so many times it isn't funny.
Seeing as how he's on over 1/5th of all teams on the PO server, pretty much.
And yeah, donphan can counter blaziken under the condition that Blaziken get's a very unlucky damage roll and deals the minimum amount of 47% with hi jump kick twice in a row. Hazards mean donphan dies. Swords Dance+hazards mean that Donphan is dead forever.
Tyranitar's a big Blaziken bait
Fair enough, alphatron.
Then what do we do with Blaziken? Is he going to be a suspect?
Then what do we do with Blaziken? Is he going to be a suspect?
Every man and his dog seems to be running Azumarill at the moment (this coming from when I was trying out Blaziken, admittedly), so no. But it is a solid threat at the moment, and that is all that many of the things people are/were bitching about in the suspect threads were before.
I can attest to this. Blaziken in the sun is at least as dangerous to the opponent as Dory, IMO. It is harder to check since it uses fighting and not ground (no Balloon) and it rapes the weather summoners on the opponent's side (meaning that they have to either give up their weather or let me set up and kill everything).
Dory is not very dangerous in sun.
But yes.
But yes.
I just find it funny that early on people said Tornelos was going to suck and was totally outclassed by Voltlos (well, eh it depends what you're doing with it) and would almost be like the NU legendaries. Same with Virijion being for the most part outclassed by Breloom lol. Those predictions were WAY wrong.
well to be fair Breloom is still pretty awesome, what with pretty much infinite subseed and techniloom. And Voltlos would outclass Tornadus or whatever his name is now if not for Gale. Tornadus is really good for VGC, though
And then there's the people who thought Kyurem would be uber.
But what surprises me more than any of those people being wrong is that the people with the opposite view - that Kyurem would fall to UU - turned out to be right. Technically, that hasn't happened yet, but it's clear that Kyurem's presence in OU is almost nonexistent.
I can't believe Kyurem was a prospect for an uber. He's got a terrible signature move, a terrible typing (weak to pretty much any priority not named aqua jet), and crappy speed. It's really just disappointing.
I've found Volcarona to be really effective this meta, since it can outspeed Rains biggests threats after a BD and is helped by those running sun. While I don't recommend boosting in sand, it can still use decently powered Bug Buzz or Fire attacks on the steels. I run HP Ice as it hits the genies, garchomp, gliscor, and salamence pretty hard. It also has the advantage of being a good check to reuniclus and it isn't stopped by the lati twins either.
On the Blaziken issue: It's really not that bad. Blaziken has some coverage issues and can't get enough supereffective coverage on the walls he needs. He can't pack enough power, sometimes even after a swords dance, and is pretty frail. He can be picked off by most neutral priority, can be hit by faster scarfers on the second turn, and is walled by any slightly physical bulky water. Jellicent, Tentacruel, Slowbro, Suicune, Gyarados, etc. I've personally had loads of success with both Gliscor (not in the sun) and Latias. Plus, it is easy enough to lure him into a HJK (send in a Terakion, for example) and then make him crash when you send in a ghost type. Most teams have one fighting-weak mon and one ghost type, it's really not that bad. If he doesn't have HJK, he simply doesn't have enough power, so it's not that big of an issue. And on a team with constant offensive pressure, killing Blaziken isn't that much of an issue.
I really appreciate that people are thinking of checks for Blaziken, but please don't make him out to be easy to beat using a certain Pokémon. "Some coverage issues" means that he can't beat everything at the same time, but depending on its nature and item, he can beat things that are supposed to beat him. I faced a guy using Adamant Life Orb, which OHKOed my Tentacruel and everything else. Scarfers can be beaten with a well-timed Protect, and I've calced that Adamant Life Orb can OHKO RestTalk Gyarados with Stone Edge as well.
I'm not declaring Blaziken broken, nor am I saying that I can't fix my teams to deal with him; I'm just frustrated sometimes when I talk about a Pokémon who's hard to beat and someone just replies, "Oh, he's easy to beat," and then, to pour salt on the wound, lists a bunch of Pokémon that I've ALREADY TRIED. It's simply insulting. I would also like to point out that exactly ONE USER has explicitly declared Blaziken broken at all.
EDIT: +1 Jolly (non-boosting item) Blaziken Stone Edge vs 248/252 Impish Gyarados: 66.2% - 77.9%
Should say enough.
I'm not declaring Blaziken broken, nor am I saying that I can't fix my teams to deal with him; I'm just frustrated sometimes when I talk about a Pokémon who's hard to beat and someone just replies, "Oh, he's easy to beat," and then, to pour salt on the wound, lists a bunch of Pokémon that I've ALREADY TRIED. It's simply insulting. I would also like to point out that exactly ONE USER has explicitly declared Blaziken broken at all.
EDIT: +1 Jolly (non-boosting item) Blaziken Stone Edge vs 248/252 Impish Gyarados: 66.2% - 77.9%
Should say enough.
Just a small question on the point of Gyarados, is Stone Edge still an OHKO factoring in intimidate?
+2 Adamant LO Blaziken using HJK vs 252/252 Bold Tentacruel: 73.6%-86.8% (never an OHKO even with SR)
+0 Adamant LO Blaziken using HJK vs 252/252 Bold Tentacruel: 36.8%-43.4% (never a 2HKO even with SR)
Tentacruel can switch in on an SD or an HJK and hit back with SE STAB moves.
However, if Blaziken is in the sun then Tentacruel gets screwed.
+1 Adamant LO Blaziken using Stone Edge vs 248/252 Impish Gyarados: 94.1% - 110.9% (guaranteed OHKO with SR, possible OHKO) without SR)
-1 Adamant LO Blaziken using Stone Edge vs 248/252 Impish Gyarados: 41.7% - 49.4% (guaranteed 2HKO with SR, never a 2HKO without SR)
Gyarados can come in on a Stone Edge and hit back with SE STAB moves.
But if it comes in on an SD or if Blaziken is in the sun then Gyarados gets screwed.
+0 Adamant LO Blaziken using HJK vs 252/252 Bold Tentacruel: 36.8%-43.4% (never a 2HKO even with SR)
Tentacruel can switch in on an SD or an HJK and hit back with SE STAB moves.
However, if Blaziken is in the sun then Tentacruel gets screwed.
+1 Adamant LO Blaziken using Stone Edge vs 248/252 Impish Gyarados: 94.1% - 110.9% (guaranteed OHKO with SR, possible OHKO) without SR)
-1 Adamant LO Blaziken using Stone Edge vs 248/252 Impish Gyarados: 41.7% - 49.4% (guaranteed 2HKO with SR, never a 2HKO without SR)
Gyarados can come in on a Stone Edge and hit back with SE STAB moves.
But if it comes in on an SD or if Blaziken is in the sun then Gyarados gets screwed.
Bit of a newbie question to those who are actively playing the Suspect Testing whilst I just watch and wait for everything to sort itself out (hehe):
How are last generation's ubers that aren't marked as "banned" faring in the testing? I've seen discussion that the dragons (Garchomp and Salamence) have sort of been brought back into the status quo with acceptable quality, but I was more interested in the fact that Mew, Latios and Latias remain unbanned for Suspect testing.
So more specifically: How is Mew faring? How is Latios faring? How is Latias faring?
I don't need a deep analysis, just a general idea on what has kept them out of bans compared to last generation?
How are last generation's ubers that aren't marked as "banned" faring in the testing? I've seen discussion that the dragons (Garchomp and Salamence) have sort of been brought back into the status quo with acceptable quality, but I was more interested in the fact that Mew, Latios and Latias remain unbanned for Suspect testing.
So more specifically: How is Mew faring? How is Latios faring? How is Latias faring?
I don't need a deep analysis, just a general idea on what has kept them out of bans compared to last generation?
They are all doing well. Mew is not being used, Latios is doing very well and Latias is not really being used much, but only because people are using Latios. The metagame is very different, so the bans are shaping up differently too.
The Power Creep imo. There are many more mons this gen that are just simply more powerful and pack more of a punch than chomp and mence. Another issue is the Speed creep there are many more pokemon between the 101-111 spped bracket now than before. So, many old threats are outpowered and outsped.
Mew is difficult to set up considering its main goal is Baton passing. Although, a surpise anti-lead could work to some extent but is outclassed.
Lati@s are still as good as ever, its just that there are a few more check to the twins now and it's easier to work around them with all the HO threats such as Dory, the Genies, Blaziken and etc.. (also, the lack of Soul Dew has really hurt them)
While not a OHKO with SR, remember this is gen V, not gen IV. We have deoxys and nattorei running amok now (and I've been seing quite a few skarmorys and some forretresses as well). A SR+ a layer of spikes or 3 layers of spikes make the OHKO nearly guaranteed after an SD, and Sr + 2 or 3 layers of spikes guarantee it.
I've been running Regeneration Slowbro this whole generation and he is woefully unappreciated. He is a 100% full stop to every single Blaziken there is. 100%. Such that when I see a Blaziken on the Team Preview, I think, "Well there's one less Poke I have to worry about." Plus he solidly checks Dory without X-Scissor if he's at full health (as he usually will be with Regeneration). He can stop Terakion and Landorus extremely well too. He's a fantastic Roobushin counter as well. Basically what I'm trying to say is Slowbro is the bomb. People should use him ^.^
Actually, I've been seeing quite a lot of Mew this past week. Maybe people caught on how good it can be?
I've seen lots of support sets, with Taunt, Will-o-Wisp and Roar; but also quite a few Nasty Plotters (with and without BP). They've given me quite some trouble and, later, when I had one in my team, it proved to be one of the MVPs supporters. I'll try an offensive one later to see if it's as good offensively as it is supporting, but I can assure you that Mew is awesome and, due to its versatile nature, can be made to fit in any team. I guess people are just forgetting it because it used to be uber and, therefore, not many have experience with or against it.
I've seen lots of support sets, with Taunt, Will-o-Wisp and Roar; but also quite a few Nasty Plotters (with and without BP). They've given me quite some trouble and, later, when I had one in my team, it proved to be one of the MVPs supporters. I'll try an offensive one later to see if it's as good offensively as it is supporting, but I can assure you that Mew is awesome and, due to its versatile nature, can be made to fit in any team. I guess people are just forgetting it because it used to be uber and, therefore, not many have experience with or against it.
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